TWD 2x01 "What Lies Ahead" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[childofgilead]

Don't know if its been mentioned yet, but the rumours are the 2nd eason premiere is actually 2 episodes put together and it was these episodes that resulted in Darabont being pulled from the editing room. It would explain the 2 directorial credits as well. I don't know what episode you watched, but mine was only an hour and a half long because of all the commercials after the first half hour.

[kidgloves]

I don't know what episode you watched, but mine was only an hour and a half long because of all the commercials after the first half hour. Huh. I think youve misunderstoodwhat im saying. Im not suggesting they tacked one episode onto another. More like they edited 2 episodes together. We know they filmed scenes at the Vatos hideout but they've left Atlanta now and i cant see them going back now the story has progressed to Carls shooting.

[krisvds]

Enjoyed the first half of the episode, but things really went downhill after that for me. The tacky love triangle thing is getting old fast? Standard soap fare. The talking to JC in the church felt awkward. Bad, bad writing. Same with the opening monologue. And the 'Shane teaming up with Andrea' subplot .... Pffff.

[AcesandEights]

The talking to JC in the church felt awkward. Bad, bad writing. I thought that part was a bit funny and definitely forced...it's a somewhat realistic reaction and thought process for a character to exhibit, but it was a bit overwritten. I liked that Rick was asking for signs as to God's intentions...you know...aside from the dead rising from the grave and destroying humanity. It just struck me funny for some reason.

[bassman]

While the praying in church was a bit awkward, it still doesn't beat the awful writing of "The doctor told me....he told me....it doesn't matter". I realize they were reminding the audience of the season finale, but couldn't they have just cut that scene into the 'last time on TWD' that shows before every episode? That opening just wreaks of after-the-fact fixes. Poor CGI, poor writing, poor acting. If the premiere was in fact two episodes cut into one(good theory btw Kid), I think that opening was definitely a last minute addition. Back to the church praying, I felt Carol's prayers were pretty good. The reveal of Ed having molested Sophia was a nice touch. No pun intended. Rick's prayers had some issues, however.

[JDFP]

Back to the church praying, I felt Carol's prayers were pretty good. The reveal of Ed having molested Sophia was a nice touch. No pun intended. Rick's prayers had some issues, however. Wait, what? I completely missed that. Doesn't surprise me though as his character was basically scum. I still have issues with the fact that the cross had Jesus still on it and it said it was a "Southern Baptist" church. They should have just called it " 'X' Church" instead without throwing a denomination on there - again, just not my experience that Southern Baptist churches still have Jesus on the cross still (though they clearly did it for effect of looking up to the crucified Christ). j.p.

[bassman]

Wait, what? I completely missed that. ....did I imagine that? I'm not kidding, I may have. It's happened before. I seem to remember her saying something about it. When she was saying she shouldn't have prayed for his death after he hit her and all that. Ill have to go back and check...

[AcesandEights]

I actually didn't like that part, as it seemed like tacked-on mustache twirling, to me. Something to make the audience say..."Oh, well, then he was really bad, I guess...I'll forge a deeper, more sympathetic emotional connection to that little girl now as a viewer." I don't need just black & white character types.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, I though that was crap too. His character was already cliched enough as it was. "Well, this new character...he's...wait for it...from the South and he, get this...he beats his wife, who's angelic and loves her daughter lots...." "Hmmm...he doesn't sound that fleshed out to me...what else does he do?" "Emmmmmmmm...touches his kid?" "Brilliant! I love it!"

[kidgloves]

While the praying in church was a bit awkward, it still doesn't beat the awful writing of "The doctor told me....he told me....it doesn't matter". I realize they were reminding the audience of the season finale, but couldn't they have just cut that scene into the 'last time on TWD' that shows before every episode? That opening just wreaks of after-the-fact fixes. Poor CGI, poor writing, poor acting. If the premiere was in fact two episodes cut into one(good theory btw Kid), I think that opening was definitely a last minute addition. Back to the church praying, I felt Carol's prayers were pretty good. The reveal of Ed having molested Sophia was a nice touch. No pun intended. Rick's prayers had some issues, however. Also, Frank said the 1st episode picks up 5 seconds after the CDC explosion so i was under the impression you would see the RV pulling away from the CDC and we would be on our way with the story. We didn't get that did we? I remember them stocking up the RV in the opening montage but thats it. Maybe i missed something. I'll have to watch it again Is it Sunday yet?

[Andy]

Really really enjoyed most of the episode, kind of lost interest for a few minutes at parts but god damn did it get my interest back quickly at the end! i sat in front of my TV with cold beers in my x rocker chair with the sound right up, when:   carl was shot, i literally jumped up and screamed! Then Hershel!! Also, i thought Darryl was such a better character, in the first series he just seemed like a redneck douche but in the first episode of the second series, i was really wondering what the group would have done without him at times? T-Dog owes him his life and he was really genuinely being a team player when searching for Sofia. i see him becoming a vital character. The church scenes where very awkward to me, the revelations about ed seemed unnecessary and quite tasteless i think, the opening was really annoying to, again i shouted at my TV when rick said 'Nevermind.." Some small gripes but overall a great episode! i loved it and cant wait for more.

[rongravy]

"Well, this new character...he's...wait for it...from the South and he, get this...he beats his wife, who's angelic and loves her daughter lots...." Heckfire, I'd beat her too just fer cuttin' her hair that danged short. I didn't remember the kid being molested part either, but I got superbaked to watch it. I guess I should check when the repeat is on so I can reload the data back in there, fill in the pieces I might've missed stuffing my face.

[Wyldwraith]

Been watching Ep. 1 of Season Two again, It really caught me by surprise, that the same things that drove me up a wall on my first viewing drove me up that wall EVEN MORE on my second. If I got anything more out of it, it was that the 1st time around I didn't get just how much Shane really was running with Dale's initiative of "No guns for anyone but me and Rick and Dale, despite the fact that we're the ones that make ALL the mistakes and/or morally deficient decisions with said guns." Listening to Andrea tell Dale off again still elicited emotion, but I saw something else right at the end that in retrospect didn't strike me the first time. At the end of Dale and Andrea's confrontation, when a poleaxed Dale just sorta dribbles out a "I....don't know what to say" to Andrea, there was a PERFECT conversational opening for Andrea to say "Say you were WRONG, and give me back my damned GUN!" ...but instead she just walks away without another word. Since the entire confrontation was about Dale's interference in her right to make her own decisions, and was sparked by his maliciously egotistical, paternalistically condescending theft of her firearm, I don't understand why Andrea let it go when she had Dale "on the ropes" with the Greater Moral Reality of the situation. In other respects, I find that with a 2nd viewing the whole "Sophia's missing and we gotta look for her" subplot drags even MORE than it did the 1st time. It SHOULD have been written that one of them found her seconds before Rick's, Shane's and Carl's encounter with the buck and Carl's subsequent shooting. Would've closed up that poorly-immersive subplot and opened up the next. That of them encountering other people. To keep both Sophia missing, Carl's life being in danger, and the punch of them encountering new and unfamiliar people going SIMULTANEOUSLY reduces the impact of all three scenarios in the same basic way that cutting a pie into three pieces instead of two means each pie-wedge is significantly smaller. I don't see the problem with gutting the zombie to be sure it hadn't eaten Sophia. And yes, I DO believe they would have been able to identify minutes old human flesh in the ghoul's gut from that of rodents or other animal life. If for no other reason than how the zombies tear away the maximum mouth-sized bite from an extremity held out in front of the victim to try and shield themselves from said zombie. The speed at which the zombies go in for more bites means they damned sure arent CHEWING what they tear off...so grisly as it may be, a necropsy of the Walker's stomach contents would have revealed a chunk of black-smeared hairless skin in a half-circle chunk on one side and ragged muscle and subcutaneous fat on the other side. Put it this way: If *I* had been either Rick or Daryl, and come across that Walker while searching for a lost little girl I last saw in an area being frequented by Walkers, *I* damned sure would've cut the damned thing open and checked. Not checking means living with the possibility that you've missed a potential opportunity to find out if the little girl you're looking for is already beyond help. That would be immoral and critically unfair to the other members of the group, to be exposing them to being surprised by a Walker or multiple Walkers during a fruitless search of the woods. Answer me this: What if they had found a SINGLE half-circle chunk of smooth tender pale skin on one side, and slender muscle fiber and a lot of subcutaneous fat (a chunk out of Sophia's arm I mean, and identifiably so)? Could ANY member of that group rationally consider it worth the dire risk (those bells could've summoned that Walker herd as easily as gunshots) if Daryle and Rick reported finding concrete 100% positive evidence that Sophia had been bitten at least once, and was probably (wherever she is) already very near death from exsanguination and shock...or worse (for her mother and Rick's sanity/emotional stability) finding Sophia had already become a Walker? Even worse, what would the consequences be if Rick and Daryl HAD found such evidence and concealed it to keep the search going, and someone else on day 2 or day 3 of the search (after first returning to the vehicles to rest and regroup) was bitten if T-Dog then revealed that Dale had been lying about the RV being out-of-commission? Rick or Laurie would put a bullet in Dale's brain outright if Carl got bitten under such circumstances. See what I mean? Consequences-wise, they HAD to rule out that Walker as the cause of Sophia's infection and/or death. The fallout due to potential casualties for passing up the opportunity to be sure the Walker DIDNT do it or of concealing the fact that it DID do it (after the two of them discovering that fact) would have torn the group irreparably apart.

[MinionZombie]

Watched it last night on FXUK and... 'Nuff said... ... Oh go on then, I'll talk about it more... I think it was wise not to give away what Jenner said to Lori, because that would just blow the wad on that too soon. You've only got so much screen time and you've got other matters to deal with ... perhaps it'll come out when they're all at Herschel's farm and they've got time to stop and get into other things without having to watch their guard all the time. With Darabont saying it picked up straight after episode 1x06, I was expecting it to do just that, but obviously it didn't - perhaps they couldn't afford the screentime, or maybe he was playing with us ... regardless, I got back into the flow of things quite quickly - I mean come on, it's new TWD, what's not to like about that? I think the big sequence in this episode was the "herd" moving through the traffic jam, and although I already saw it in isolation online t'other day (where I found it to be nicely tense), I still found it to be a tense sequence in the context of the whole episode. Speaking of which - some nice moments of zombie grue - be it Andrea kicking zombie ass with a screwdriver (a nice little wink there, perhaps? ), or Daryl and Rick hacking open a walker to see if it had eaten Sophia or not - there were some excellent zombie moments. Indeed, the award for best zombie of the episode would have to go to the one that shambles into the RV - the make-up was amazing and I continue to love how they stay true to the 'stretched lips' look with all the manky teeth on show. I liked the thing about "keep the sun on your left shoulder" - I've never heard that as a tip before for knowing which way you came and which way you have to head back - it's quite simple, but I'd never heard it before, so I thought that was nifty in itself ... and I can see we're going to have Rick go through more of these impossible decisions. He had to pull them away from Sophia, but then again she is also a child and evidently she got lost in the woods ... I thought Melissa McBride did a wonderful job too. It didn't feel overplayed, nor underplayed - it felt real ... and good on Lori for sacking up to Andrea and Carol at that one point to establish some harsh, practical fact into the situation at that time in order to keep things moving along. Even though I knew that Carl was going to get shot at some point, I was still surprised when it actually happened - I was kind of wrapped up in the moment. I don't think you could have had Sophia pop up suddenly and just be like "hello, I'm fine" and then have that moment. You need a lingering loose end to go along with the big cliff hanger - that being Carl's shot and bleeding on the ground - but I kind of wonder if Sophia's going to be discovered at Herschel's farm safe and sound. The little cough-and-you'll-not-hear-it revelation that Ed was perhaps edging towards kiddy fiddler territory with Sophia was a bit of a shock. It's a horrible thing that nobody wants to think about, naturally, but I don't think it ruined anything. The guy was a disgusting pig and I think it heightens Carol's sense of victimisation - trapped in an awful relationship, but she can't break free, and now she's blaming herself for losing Sophia because she wanted Ed dead - and the juxtaposition of 'can there be faith in a world like this?' So, clearly, I really enjoyed the episode - we're back, baby!

[Wyldwraith]

I wasn't suggesting that Rick, Shane and Carl should have found Sophia, I meant that one of the other small groups should have found her while headed back towards the vehicles. After all, Sophia had good advice about how to find her way back to the highway, even if she came out a bit north or south of where the vehicles were parked. Surely she wouldn't have left the treeline without being sure she wasn't within the line-of-sight of the Walker herd after having been burnt once for leaving cover too soon? That being the case, if logic and not perceived dramatic need script-wise was the determining factor in Sophia's location, she would (logically, that is) be within the band of woods between the highway and the creek bank where Rick had her hide. Why? Well, after leaving the tangle of roots she hid under, Sophia's VERY FIRST DECISION would have been which direction to begin to move in after she'd crawled out from under the root-tangle. Sophia knew that she (and Rick) had come down the bank of the creek while being pursued by the Walkers. The OTHER bank of the creek was flat ground as far as what was shown of it went, so it would've been utterly impossible for her to confuse WHICH bank of the creek they'd come down, and WHICH bank of said creek she needed to crawl back up to begin making her way back to the highway. So, why is it certain she would have gone that way? Easy, she was frightened. Sophia saw the Walkers pursue Rick across the bank of the creek opposite where she was hiding and out of her sight. A frightened little girl, alone, would NOT go in the direction the zombies went. Right? That being the case, the leaves the direction she came from, where Sophia knows the bulk of the group is with guns, other weapons and vehicles to escape in if necessary. Most important from her perspective, that's the direction leading to not being alone and in terrible danger because she's alone and helpless before any Walker that might find her. Her Mommy is in that direction. All of these are IMO extremely solid reasons for Sophia to go up that bank and take Rick's advice. It was incredibly simple advice, AND the LAST THING an adult who was being incredibly serious said to her before she was left alone. Why wouldn't she follow Rick's advice about how to find her way back to the others? See what I mean? There are only 3 reasonable reasons why Sophia wouldn't have followed Rick's advice and headed back towards the group. 1) She's dead/injured/a Walker. 2) Other humans found her before she could make her way back to the group and took her with them wherever they went (though that reason has this hole in it: Why wouldn't such people want to find Sophia's group of armed adults themselves?) 3) She began making her way back toward the group as Rick had instructed, but encountered 1 or more Walkers en route and ran blindly away from said Walker(s). What do the rest of you think?