TWD 2x09 "Triggerfinger" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Wyldwraith]

About Lori @ Shane at the CDC: There's simply NO DENYING what Shane did at the CDC was completely unacceptable. That said, I believe it to be a bridge too far to leap to this event as the core reason for Lori turning so completely against Shane as to be actively advocating and seeking to manipulate her husband into KILLING Shane. Even if Shane HAD savagely raped Lori, what Lori is advocating isn't calling Shane to account for his wrongs. She wants Rick to take him out before Shane has clue one what's going down. Many things are open to interpretation in TWD (something we all love), but I feel its safe to say that Dale & Lori both are seeking the most expedient, NOT the most JUST outcome regarding Shane. If they were, they'd be talking about getting the group united about forcing him out of the group. They aren't doing that because they know that Shane has at least one unwavering supporter (Andrea), and that Daryl and Glenn aren't likely to back such an action currently. Of course its debatable who would support what, but the base concept, Ie: The group being too divided over Shane for a united front/consensus about him to be achieved is essentially sound. Much as Dale is the guy I love to hate, I'll admit that Dale has far, FAR more justifiable reason to be advocating action against Shane. Lori is seeking the tidiest, easiest clean-up of a mess she contributed to making with Shane. (And you can't tell me that Lori staying stuff like "The baby won't be yours even if its yours Shane, and there's nothing you can do about it!" doesn't contribute to the escalation of tensions regarding Shane). Or, more simply, I genuinely believe if Rick's ticket got punched by a Walker the day after she had her quiet little Lady Macbeth moment with Rick, inside of a week Lori would completely flip-flop AGAIN regarding Shane.) Certainly the most interesting feature of the show is the constantly shifting web of tensions, ill-will, passion, loyalty, virtue and evil amongst the survivors. TWD gets it right about using the zombies as an effective external apocalyptic pressure on a human collective, whereas Romero has strayed from that mark so far this decade that Resident Evil: Extinction beats the best elements of Land, Diary and Survival combined). I'm very, very interested to see what happens next. If Rick is going to hold true to his relatively inflexible moral code when the issue is inside the group, or if he's going to "Shane it up." What's going to happen with Glenn going forward from here, same going for Daryl and Andrea. This coming episode should really tell the tale when it comes to how the group's moral code is going to form. The meat in our debate-wich as it were.

[Publius]

About Lori @ Shane at the CDC: Even if Shane HAD savagely raped Lori, what Lori is advocating isn't calling Shane to account for his wrongs. She wants Rick to take him out before Shane has clue one what's going down. Which, interestingly, is exactly how Shane would deal with an equivalent situation. Don't agonize over it, don't talk it out, just eliminate the problem. The big difference being that if Lori were a female Shane, she'd take Shane out herself instead of persuading Rick that it needs to be done.

[Wyldwraith]

@Publius: A fair point, but you can't have it both ways. If Shane deserves to die for doing the things he's done, then its equally evil if someone else adopts the same Expedience > Morality mindset. What's completely missing is Lori's share of the culpability in creating the problem with Shane. Yes, Lori had every reason to believe Rick was dead. Yes, Lori was trying to adapt and move forward under terrible circumstances for Carl's sake and her own. All of which is perfectly understandable given the situation. Where Lori goes horribly completely wrong is her handling of the situation from the moment she lays eyes on Rick. Whatever Lori felt for Shane and however she saw him, Lori KNEW that SHANE felt something quite serious and very genuine for her and Carl. Unwilling or unable to face up to and own the guilt and shame she was feeling for having given up on Rick and started moving on with Shane, Lori has rewritten history to make Shane responsible for HER choices. She can scream and denigrate Shane all she wants for telling her Rick was dead to stop her from throwing away her life and the life of her son, but no matter how hard she tries to make Shane responsible for HER DECISION to become involved with him, it will never be anyone's responsibility but her own. If that's where it ended, all well and good. But Lori has done just about everything she can to make it harder on Shane. It means less than nothing to Lori that the only reason she's alive to bitch about Shane are all those times he's put himself in harm's way to save hers and Carl's lives. Forget that Shane volunteered for the most dangerous mission yet carried out by TWD survivors in order to save Carl's life, Lori accepts Carl's life as her due and would see Shane put down like a dog for making a terrible split-second decision in a situation so horrible Lori can't even imagine it. Forget that while Rick was off "tilting at windmills" as someone so aptly phrased it, Shane was the one fighting to keep her and her son alive when so many others died when the camp was attacked. Hell, judging by how short the interval was between Shane busting the barn open and the Walkers spilling out, Rick and Herschel both would have certainly bitten and probably killed while trying to push that pair of Walkers into the barn, unhook them from the catch-poles and shut the barn. As crazy as all the in-group Shane-hating is, the endless # of free passes Rick gets for causing disaster simply because "his heart was in the right place" is mind-boggling. Maybe it's my lack of knowledge from not having read the comics, but I still can't understand how Rick just showed up (putting numerous lives in danger from moment one of meeting the group during S1-E2 "Guts") swooped in and took command of the group to the point Rick can justify making Shane believe he'd been abandoned to the Walkers just so Rick could try and assert his dominance. (If in fact that was Rick's motivation. I tend to believe he decided to abandon Shane and simply didn't have the stomach to follow through, so he tried playing it off like coming back and making a point of his authority was his intent all along. Had SHANE done that, the consensus here would certainly be he was trying to kill Rick.) The conflict and tension between group members makes for compelling drama, but I'd like to see the same individuals apply the same moral standards from episode to episode. I'd REALLY like to see Andrea call Lori out for constantly pushing Shane's buttons and then demonizing him when he reacts negatively to her self-serving machinations. It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens. I just wish I could understand how many of my fellow viewers here draw such completely different conclusions from the same subject matter as I'm watching.