TWD 2x10 "18 Miles Out" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[bassman]

Shane didnt know there was a second floor. One look at the outside of the barn should tell anyone that it has a loft....

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, dude....not many barns don't have a second floor, from what i've seen...and i live in the midwest where there's tons of barns. being a good 'ol boy like shane is, there's no way he didn't know that. and surely he knew that glenn found out about the walkers by entering the barn from above.

[Andy]

One look at the outside of the barn should tell anyone that it has a loft.... Does one look at the outside tell you how many walkers are in the loft too?

[MinionZombie]

Does one look at the outside tell you how many walkers are in the loft too? No, but a careful and simple bit of reconnaisance will tell you that ... have a clamber up to the loft part, have a casual count, and then you can go in to the situation informed. Rather than - in the height of fury - bust open the doors and unleash all hell. It's not exactly a smart or controlled way to clear a barn of walkers ... excellent for the show (and necessary to push the plot forward, and stay true to Shane's crumbling mental state), but if it was a real-life situation, it's wholly the wrong thing to do. You want height, distance, control, and ideally stealth on your side in such a situation.

[krisvds]

So guys, for real. I'm maybe getting it wrong but are there seriously people who watch this season and then go; this Shane character is a good person who would never endanger this group of characters. In fact he's the best leader among them ... (ok ok, trying to kill your best friend, twice, is actually for the best of the group since said former friend is really dangerous because he makes moral decisions, and the woman you attempted to rape had it coming 'cause she's so lady Macbeth - evil she dumped you for her husband she believed dead, the fact she believed him dead wasn't really a lie, and killing Jenner would never have endangered anybody, and releasing those walkers without thinking of a plan, hey that's really in everyone's best interest,...)

[bassman]

Does one look at the outside tell you how many walkers are in the loft too? Not at all, but your comment was that he didn't know the barn had a second floor. As mentioned by another member before, Shane could have easily taken out the barn walkers in a more strategic manner. Instead, he operated off of an impulse and potentially put the entire group in danger.

[AcesandEights]

Shane didnt know there was a second floor. Which is exactly why releasing a stream of walkers onto the scene without conferring with others, making sure of a plan and that people are prepared, armed and have enough ammo directly on hand is the least he could have done.

[Wyldwraith]

The barn argument is MOOT, Herschel was ADAMANT about handling the zombie-incarceration in the barn with just him, Rick and the young man from Herschel's group. So Herschel and Rick were ALREADY planning on opening the barn to stuff the pair they had on catch-poles inside. Is it REMOTELY POSSIBLE they intended to take some other precautions? Sure, but everyone's always saying we have to judge by what we actually see and hear from the characters and not our personally-biased speculations. So really, Shane's plan was by FAR the more reasonable of the two. One exit from the barn, Walkers head straight for the nearest humans 100% of the time...so opening the main door with a nod to everyone and a last look around to make sure everyone is locked and loaded is NOT a bad plan. 10-15 Walkers, zero obstructions between them and the "firing line" and enough distance between the barn doors and the shooters to easily allow for the termination of every Walker before ANY could reach a human being. What's so reckless about such a plan? Shane, Andrea, and Daryl are all crack shots at this point while Glenn and T-Dog are both equipped with shotguns to balance their lesser skills as shooters. 5 heavily armed humans, who know EXACTLY where the enemy is going to appear and EXACTLY how the enemy is going to react...versus 2-3x as many Walkers who by their very natures can do nothing but slog predictably into the hail of gunfire. Put it in perspective another way: Having been surprised by the sudden appearance of Walkers, needing to rapidly exit the garage and reach their vehicle, and dealing with Walkers coming from 4-5 different directions, Shane & Andrea terminated nearly as many Walkers as were in the barn. Just the 2 of them, and armed only with pistols whereas the barn firing line included 3 shotguns firing at close range. Now, based on these known factors, why would one NEED a more elaborate plan to eliminate the barn-Walkers? Besides, again, it was hands-down a better plan than Rick and Herschel's...and where's all the hate for Rick for being so reckless with people's lives due to his horrible plan? As for making sure there was enough ammo on hand, if each gun was loaded only to half-capacity you could have had just over a 50% miss/non-terminating hit-rate and still had a few bullets to spare. However, given Glenn and T-Dog both being unknown quantities in a hardcore bloodbath...I'll grant you that checking on the ammo situation wouldn't have been a bad idea. However, we should remember that the OBSCENE and INSANE image of Rick and Herschel emerging from the woods with 2 more Walkers for the barn on catch-poles was the proximate cause for Shane to rush his plan into action. A not-unreasonable reaction, since Shane very insightfully understood Rick's hands would be tied up and prevented from opposing him so long as he was forced to hold on to the catch-pole. Yet bottom line, Rick's plan (or rather Rick going along with Herschel's insane plan) had a vastly greater % chance of human fatalities than what Shane did. Remembering that if Shane and the others had continued to obey Herschel's demand and Rick's orders...everyone but whoever had Dale's rifle and Rick would've been unarmed when Rick & Herschel tried to put the Walkers in the barn.

[ProfessorChaos]

and how are we sure that rick and hershel were going to let the walkers in through the front door?....they could've been putting them in from the 2nd floor. i don't recall if this was ever discussed, but it's a possibility. or they could've had someone go to the other side and bang on the walls to distract the walkers....since we never really see any new walkers herded into the barn, i feel it's hard to say that shane's methods were that superior rick's. without rick's (hershel's , whatever) plan going all the way through, we can't really just say that it was a poor one. EDIT: funny this discussion is focusing so much on events from three episodes back since this thread is about 2x10.

[bassman]

The barn argument is MOOT,. Now that is funny....

[AnxietyDilemma]

Your question is a good one Anxiety, but let's put add to it a little. "Who's going to try to rescue you even if it means putting the only person(s) you still have in mortal jeopardy?" Ask Andrea about the downside of moral commitment during a Zombie Apocalypse. Ask Shane about the upside, as he lives to see another day of vying for control of the group and Lori's affection. My position stands. I wouldn't want to follow somebody who would leave me for dead, or possibly even injure me, thus leave me for zombie bait to save his own behind. And what I see get lost in all of this is Rick's sense of responsibility. People question his actions when he went back for Merle, and later for Sophia, but he was partly responsible for their being in that situation in the first place. He handcuffed Merle to the roof because he was a danger, and told Sophia to hide while he killed the walker. One could argue that she died because of him, but he was the only one that went after her when she took off in the first place.

[Andy]

Quick question off this topic but about this episode, at the end when shane is in the car looking at the lone zombie in the field for the second time, does anybody else lose the sound half way through that song for about a minute? Is this intentional?

[AcesandEights]

Quick question off this topic but about this episode, at the end when shane is in the car looking at the lone zombie in the field for the second time, does anybody else lose the sound half way through that song for about a minute? Is this intentional? That sounds familiar, but I've already erased my DVR copy. Tried a quick youtube search, but didn't want to dig too far in case of accidentally coming across spoilers for future episodes.

[babomb]

I also think that when Rick left Shane behind in the bus he wanted to give him a taste of how Otis must have felt in his final moments, force some real fear and guilt into him about it Why would he do that when he agrees with Shane's decisions to shoot Otis, not only agrees but thinks he would've done the same thing and has a problem with Shane thinking he wouldn't? Rick has NO PROBLEM with the Otis situation. He openly stated that! Rewatch the episode if you have doubts... -- -------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ---------- There was no way to put any more planning into the barn assault since speaking about it with Rick and Hershel would've resulted in the whole thing being stopped. Shane armed everyone beforehand. Not assaulting the barn would've been more dangerous. You have all these walkers in the barn and nobody is allowed to walk around armed due to Hershels rules. So Shane arms the group to protect from the walkers in the barn. What better time to assault the barn than after you arm the entire group? Was Shane gonna try and talk Hershel into allowing the assault? Rick was going along with Hershels plans of adding more walkers into the barn. So Rick is allowing the entire group to go about unarmed, while there's over a dozen walkers in the barn. Shane arms the group before opening the doors to the barn. BUT, it's Shane who was the one endangering the group in that situation? That's the biggest stretch I've seen so far!!! That defies all logic. Seriously, that's just ridiculous!!

[ProfessorChaos]

Quick question off this topic but about this episode, at the end when shane is in the car looking at the lone zombie in the field for the second time, does anybody else lose the sound half way through that song for about a minute? Is this intentional? just re-watched the copy i have on my DVR, and the song plays throughout the entire sequence till it cuts to a commercial break.