TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Andy]

Two points:- 1) Can I assume correctly, you still haven't re-watched it? But you'll still pass comment? 2) How can I be wrong? He's shown shooting 9-10 times, even ignoring the scenes then continue immediately on to imply he shoots even more rounds. And the fact there's walkers that can't reach him in the 10-20 seconds he'd need to reload? Seems like you're defending the indensable, for the sake of it? Just explain to me how a bag of shotguns at Hershal's feet would have done anything other than improved/explained the whole scene? 1) I actually have watched it again, i put it on when i came off here last night and saw the them fleeing the farm but fell asleep before ricks epic speech BUT my opinion remains unchanged. 2)The point everyone here is trying to make to you is that IT REALLY DOSNT NEED TO BE EXPLAINED. Its implied that he reloads off screen or its a not a huge leap of faith to imagine him reloading off screen or what your seeing isnt exactly "real time".. Different people here are putting it different ways but nobody here is saying that herschel had access to unlimited ammo, all we're saying is we dont feel like it would improve or explain the reloading if you saw a bag of guns at herschels feet and him stopping shooting, throwing one down and picking another up. It would totally blow the pacing of the scene if you ask me and it really REALLY isnt something that needs to be explained to you in the TV show! It should just be taken that herschel is reloading when the camera is off. Come on man id expect this kind of argument from a gun-toting redneck but from you? this is below you

[Neil]

Damn, Neil. You have to stop overthinking it, man. How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary!

[bassman]

How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary! I was mostly just poking fun with you. We all know that overthinking it is what we do here at HPotD. At this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing with you about Hershel's shots being unrealistic. I think now most of us have seen that he does indeed fire too many shots at certain times, but we just don't see it as that big of a deal. Sure, it could have been corrected in post production, but thankfully they focused on more important things like telling a compelling story. I applaud your attention to detail, but I think most people wouldn't have noticed. Most likely because of the "unlimited ammo cheat", as seen in every movie with guns in the past fifty years...

[Neil]

I actually have watched it again So then I assume you can confirm what I'm stating?:- 1) He is shown shooting 9-10 rounds in a row, followed by a change of camera angle (not implying a change of time) where then he continues shooting even more rounds? 2) There's walking dead 20 feet or so infront of him, that for some reason cannot reach him when he needs to stop to reload (eg: for 20) seconds? Andy, you do realise shotguns typically hold about 5-7 rounds (from my limited understand)? It would totally blow the pacing of the scene if you ask me. Poppy-cock! So you're telling me, in the scene where we see him in the background, stopping to reload, if he instead was shown dropped the gun in his hand, bending over, and picked up another, that would "totally blow the pacing of the scene?" Can I ask how so? Not 1 second of time difference, only shows him doing something else? And it completely explains how he is able to shoot so often/so much... Why are you arguing this isn't anything but the case? -- -------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 PM ---------- It this point, I don't think anyone is really arguing with you about Hershel's shots being unrealistic. I think now most of us have seen that he does indeed fire too many shots at certain times, but we just don't see it as that big of a deal. Oh, it's absolutely not a big deal... I just found a real shame, at such a tense/crux moment, I was brought out of the episode by such a daft unnecessary oversight

[MinionZombie]

Yes we are! And I'm going to carry on till every last one of you mutter futters agrees I'm totally and utterly 100% right! Yeh! So stick that up your shotgun and shoot it out 12 times in a row! NEVER! MZ, sadly, the RV was shown on fire along with the barn. It's toast. Damn, must have forgotten that bit ... I guess I'll have to rewatch the whole second half of season two again then, oh dear, what a shame! RIP Dale's RV and indeed RIP Dale. I was more upset about watching the RV burn than I was for Jimmy and Otis' wife's death. Which also brings up the question...why should I care about their deaths? They were only put in the show to die and had absolutely no purpose. Particularly Jimmy.... Jimmy wasn't much of a character in the source material anyway, and you need a bit of cannon fodder now and then, and if it hadn't have been for Jimmy, Rick and Carl would have been stuck on the top of a burning barn for quite some time. Patricia was more useful - a source of grief after Otis, and rather useful medically speaking, but she also had more to do in general anyway. I thought the scene where she died was handled quite well though, with the young chick (keep forgetting her name!) clinging onto her hand desperately. I felt that was quite a horrific and emotional scene - well performed. Interesting to hear that the actress who plays Patricia really got into the scene and was kinda freaking out afterwards. How am I over thinking it... I was watching it (the first time) and my brain cried foul!!! And more than once! All you could see and hear was this self-reloading, dozen shell holding shotgun blasting away. I rolled my eyes. It was just a bit daft, and even more annoyingly just totally unnecessary! Because you're STILL focussing on a ruddy shotgun, when the episode saw two side characters die, the death of the RV, Rick 'fess up to the group that he killed Shane, Lori lash out in anger at her own culpability, a massive shoot out of awesomeness take place, Glenn tell Maggie he loved her, Hershel stand in line behind Rick (seemingly shifting into becoming his right hand man), Daryl be super cool, Carol freak out, and then DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN - the prison is revealed ... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head ... and yet, days later, you're STILL banging on about a flipping shotgun! Have mercy, Neil ... mercy!

[Andy]

Because you're STILL focussing on a ruddy shotgun, when the episode saw two side characters die, the death of the RV, Rick 'fess up to the group that he killed Shane, Lori lash out in anger at her own culpability, a massive shoot out of awesomeness take place, Glenn tell Maggie he loved her, Hershel stand in line behind Rick (seemingly shifting into becoming his right hand man), Daryl be super cool, Carol freak out, and then DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN - the prison is revealed ... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head ... and yet, days later, you're STILL banging on about a flipping shotgun! You missed Jenners Revelation

[Neil]

Because you're STILL focussing on a ruddy shotgun, when the episode saw two side characters die, the death of the RV, Rick 'fess up to the group that he killed Shane, Lori lash out in anger at her own culpability, a massive shoot out of awesomeness take place, Glenn tell Maggie he loved her, Hershel stand in line behind Rick (seemingly shifting into becoming his right hand man), Daryl be super cool, Carol freak out, and then DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN - the prison is revealed ... and that's just the stuff off the top of my head ... and yet, days later, you're STILL banging on about a flipping shotgun! :rolleyes What shotgun? In all seriousness, as I've said before the episode was pretty good, but I think some of its predecessors were better. But the shotgun shooting like a dozen+ rounds, and the inability for walkers to cover just 20ft or so to Hershal when he'd need to be reloading repeatedly for 20+ seconds, just screemed "foul" to me. And let's remember, other characters could hardly even outrun the things, but somehow Hershal could take nice long 20 seconds breaks every half dozen shots to reload? What happened, were the walkers playing statues while he reloaded? Didn't feel right... And the interesting thing is, most people say they're seemingly more than happy with these issues and instead argue the toss, rather than just agreeing it could have been better if reworked at no expense other than possibly a bag at Hershal's feet? Don't understand it... ps: I'm tempted to ask about the hooded figure with the zombies chained to him, but TBH I don't want that spoiled

[Andy]

ps: I'm tempted to ask about the hooded figure with the zombies chained to him, but TBH I don't want that spoiled I answered that like 3 pages ago,   its a women btw, not a man. If you wanna know more then click below. I posted her back story from the comics. Obviously dont click if you wanna wait til season 3 Clicky

[Neil]

I answered that like 3 pages ago,   its a women btw, not a man. If you wanna know more then click below. I posted her back story from the comics. Obviously dont click if you wanna wait til season 3 Clicky Knowing that is even more information than I want to know... ***LA LA LA - NOT LISTENING - LA LA LA***

[Andy]

Knowing that is even more information than I want to know... ***LA LA LA - NOT LISTENING - LA LA LA*** AH-HA! ive found your weakness!! now admit im right about the guns or ill post the whole thing without spoiler tags

[Neil]

AH-HA! ive found your weakness!! now admit im right about the guns or ill post the whole thing without spoiler tags OK OK! Mercy! You're right! Hershal's thirteen round holding shotgun, with its innovative quick two second reload feature, was absolutely the right choice, and in no way detracts from the episode... His Tardis pocket(s) for the 30+ rounds were also a great idea!

[rgc2005]

The magic shotgun did tend to distract from the overall badass-ness of the episode. I read once that there is a finite limit to the number of times directors can ask audiences to suspend disbelief. After that limit is reached a story rapidly falls from tense drama to comedic farce. TWD got really close this time around.

[sandrock74]

Forget the infinite ammo stuff. More pee pee and more pooh pooh needs to be shown on screen, or I'm out! Totally unbelievable that no one goes number 1 or 2 throughout the day. Also, I want to see them all sleeping in every episode. I can't believe that none of them sleeps! More realism during the zombie apocalypse!

[MinionZombie]

You missed Jenners Revelation Oh yeah, and that. Although the revelation wasn't much of a shock to me, as many of us had theorised just that here on HPOTD ... and Shane resurrecting from just a stab wound in 2x12 kind of gives that whole reveal away a bit, doesn't it? Forget the infinite ammo stuff. More pee pee and more pooh pooh needs to be shown on screen, or I'm out! Totally unbelievable that no one goes number 1 or 2 throughout the day. Also, I want to see them all sleeping in every episode. I can't believe that none of them sleeps! More realism during the zombie apocalypse! And nobody ever gets a bogey up their nose, and Andrew Lincoln's beard never gets longer, and nobody ever brushes their teeth/mentions they could all use a TicTac, and... ... Returning, briefly, to the issue of Hershel 'stopping to have a chat' - horse shit. Reviewing that scene it ain't any kind of chat I've heard of. Rick saves Hershel, shouts about Lori being missing, Hershel doesn't know, Rick says they need to go and find Lori, Hershel won't leave but then Rick drags him away. That is NOT a "chat", and considering the shouting and fast pace of the dialogue, they're not in danger of being surrounded by exchanging a couple of sentences that pertain to the plot. Stopping to have a "chat" in the midst of danger would be that episode of Doctor Who called, IIRC, "42" where a space ship is crashing towards a sun - in real time (42 minutes) - and more than once the characters have time to have a pointless chat about bullshit that has nothing to do with stopping the space ship from crashing into a sun (or whatever it was). The aforementioned scene in TWD2x13 was nothing like that. /rant ... glad I got that discussion peeve off my chest.

[rgc2005]

Agreed. Seeing the group flip out when Glen brings back toilet paper or a functioning iPod would be nice. PS, I listened to a Mazzara interview and he admitted to reading these boards looking for tips. Maybe a Mod should create a special heavily modded "Glenn Mazzara Please Read!!!" thread?? Forget the infinite ammo stuff. More pee pee and more pooh pooh needs to be shown on screen, or I'm out! Totally unbelievable that no one goes number 1 or 2 throughout the day. Also, I want to see them all sleeping in every episode. I can't believe that none of them sleeps! More realism during the zombie apocalypse!