TWD 2x13 "Beside The Dying Fire" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[LouCipherr]

I agree with Neil on this as this has always been a pet peeve of mine. I have been forever annoyed at the fact that most filmmakers don't take realism involving weapons into consideration just a bit more than they do. Suspending belief in the dead coming back to life is one thing - it's something none of us have ever experienced before so there's nothing for us to compare it to (except, perhaps, other zombie movies, but that's not the point). We all, however, have at least a basic understanding of guns and how they work (ie: we all know you can't fire 20 bullets from a revolver and shotguns need to be reloaded after a few shots not 20. We also know that people don't become "sharp shooters" overnight, unlike in the movies). I have an incredibly difficult time suspending belief in something I actually have first-hand knowledge of and is always at the forefront of my mind. Here's another prime example of this kind of stupidity: remember Halloween (the original)? At the end, Loomis shoots Michael with a revolver 6 times. Someone must've been paying attention, right? Well... at the beginning of Halloween II, they re-cap that same scene but this time, Loomis fires 7 shots from a 6 round revolver. THAT kind of stuff should not be overlooked, same as the "unlimited ammo shotgun" It's a minor thing for the most part, yes, but something that has forever been stuck in my crawl. Don't these editors notice this kind of stuff? If they don't, they really need to hire someone who does. It's annoying.

[Neil]

Someone needs to rewatch the scene and count how many rounds that super shotgun held Ignoring the script, even surely as late as filming they must have thought, 'hang on, that's the twentieth shot out of this thing? DIRECTOR!!!?'

[LouCipherr]

Ignoring the script, even surely as late as filming they must have thought, 'hang on, that's the twentieth shot out of this thing? DIRECTOR!!!?' Exactly. If it was this obvious to us, you can't tell me at least someone sitting in the editing room didn't say, "hey, waaaaaaait a second here...."

[bassman]

Someone needs to rewatch the scene and count how many rounds that super shotgun held Just did. When we first see him, he fires eight shots on screen. Then it cuts to Lori and Carol arguing about Carl and the shots are quiet for a moment. Then we hear a few more off screen that could possibly be Hershel, and then actually see between Lori and Carol that Hershel shoots four, then stops, reaches into his pocket, and starts reloading. When Lori is asking Hershel to come with them, he fires seven. So maybe it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be? The most he fires on screen is eight. There are of course other shots heard in the background during other scenes, but that could have been one of the others in the cars(Glenn had a shotgun as well). And he definitely does reload, it's just in the background and not in-your-face.... EDIT: Forgot the scene where Rick saves him and pulls him away. It looks like he fires ten and starts reloading before Rick gets him. So ten is the most he fires on screen. I have no idea what kind he's using, but are there shotguns that hold ten shells?

[Neil]

Just did. When we first see him, he fires eight shots on screen. Then it cuts to Lori and Carol arguing about Carl and the shots are quiet for a moment. Then we hear a few more off screen that could possibly be Hershel, and then actually see between Lori and Carol that Hershel shoots four, then stops, reaches into his pocket, and starts reloading. So maybe it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be? The most he fires on screen is eight. There are of course other shots heard in the background during other scenes, but that could have been one of the others in the cars(Glenn had a shotgun as well). And he definitely does reload, it's just in the background and not in-your-face.... Actually I remember the reloading scene - see if you concur having just watched it again There's zombies within ten-twenty feet... He runs dry... So stops for a reload (& chat)? I'll swear he was reloading & chatting? Would you do that? I seem to recall it feeling somewhat unatural - ie: You just wouldn't (& couldn't) do that with a wall of creatures walking towards you. Can you reload a shotgun quickly? ie: Before zombie 10-20 feet away are on you.

[sandrock74]

To be fair, the zombies were further off than 20 feet away.

[bassman]

Yeah, with the exception of the one that comes up behind him, the others hes shooting at seem pretty far away. I could imagine him having time to load 8-10 shells within that distance. Plus, he wouldn't have to fully reload...just enough shells to pick off the closest walkers.

[Neil]

To be fair, the zombies were further off than 20 feet away. 21? I'm going to have to watching this sodding scene again aren't I! -- -------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ---------- Yeah, with the exception of the one that comes up behind him, the others hes shooting at seem pretty far away. I could imagine him having time to load 8-10 shells within that distance. Plus, he wouldn't have to fully reload...just enough shells to pick off the closest walkers. I'll swear there's a wall of more than 8-10 approaching him... I'm going to watch it again...

[Knighty]

Right that's it! We need to go to the farm location, heavily armed with guns/ammo & tape measures and we are going to put this thing to bed!

[AcesandEights]

Right that's it! We need to go to the farm location, heavily armed with guns/ammo & tape measures and we are going to put this thing to bed! I was thinking the same thing, and how outlandish it was. I was like "I'll fix Neil and his nay saying, I just need to figure out the average human strolling speed of a human in feet per second and off we go to Georgia for some figurin'. We'll have this settled in no time." Good one, Neil...you almost lured me in.

[Thorn]

I agree that real and realistic are different I do not need the show to be "real" but I do want it to be realistic enough to help with siuspension of disbeleif and anything that takes me out of that annoys me as it ruins my enjoyment. Again... driving around and getting head shots on zeds while aiming out of the windows , or even hitting your target at all. It was silly, and it bothered me. I also agree, there is no way I stop midstream and have a chat or a sit down while reloading wit ha wall of rotting corpses coming at me. I like to think I would keep my composure but it would take effort and not nonchalant chatting.

[darth los]

I think at the end of the day you have a finite amount of time in an episode, you either fill that showing someone miss a shot/reload a gun or you show a zombie being hit or similar action shot. Well said. Time is an expensive commodity in TV and you've got to be as efficient as possible. Showing Hershel constantly reloading would be filler - we know he has to reload, so why do we need to see it every however-many-shells the shotgun can hold? Brilliant gentlemen. So the next time there are running zombies on screen just remember that they're just speeding things along so we can get to the really important stuff... Because he shoots like twenty odd rounds in a row with zombies never more than about 10-20ft away. If he stopped to reload... he'd be dead... But let's not let common sense or reality get in the way shall we Better the scene is simply reworked to circumvent such nonsense. ie: He brings out 3-4 pre-loaded shotguns and simply works through them. There - Same scene, but with added common sense. Voila! Neil has it right guys. It fundementally changes things when the continuity error in question is the difference between life and death. It's really simple. If herschel stops and reloads for the amount of times he fired his weapon, With the sheer number and proximity of the walkers, making the stand he did, he's dead, end of story. So by all rights he shouldn't be alive so yeah that's gonna bother me. Now what i am willing to suspend my disbelief for: Let's not forget the fact that the weapon (shotgun no less) had no recoil and he was hitting everything in the head. It's a stretch but i'll roll with it. Questioning a weapons kick and a persons aim is subjective. Maybe herchel was in nam. Perhaps, unbeknownst to everyone he's as stong as a bear and the weapon just doesn't kick cause he's that strong. Fine. But you can't shoot a shotgun without shells in it. On that subject it has been said that he fired 8 shots in one frame and seven in another. Do you have any idea how long it takes to manually load seven shells? 30 seconds? He would have been overun, easily And nitpicking is what we do here isn't it? If we can criticize GAr's continuity errors ad nauseum (And yes he's still the master) i don't think kirkman is above a good old fashioned nitpicking either.

[Knighty]

I don't mind running zombies in films though

[darth los]

I don't mind running zombies in films though You have made some powerfull enemies this day.......

[Andy]

Dont listen to darth knighty, both camps are strong. I like runners too