Batman massacre: People killed at Dark Knight premiere

[Neil]

Gun sales rise since attack - http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21...-since-tragedy Background checks for people wanting to buy guns in Colorado jumped more than 41 percent after Friday morning's shooting at an Aurora movie theater, and firearms instructors say they're also seeing increased interest in the training required for a concealed-carry permit.

[bassman]

Classy move, Bale.

[babomb]

Gun sales rise since attack - http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21...-since-tragedy People are realizing that their lives and safety and the safety of their families is their own responsibility. The authorities can only do so much, and they're never there when the shit is actually happening, they only show up in the aftermath in most cases. This is a good thing. People should be taking responsibility like this. It's just too bad that it takes some horrible event like this to make people see that. Another reason people are doing this now is because they know that there's a good possibility that stricter gun laws will be put into place, so they're getting them while they still can. Any new gun legislation will most likely include a grandfather clause. So people who already own certain weapons will be allowed to keep them. Going out and trying to round up peoples firearms would create an incredibly volatile situation. On a different note, just to show how ridiculous this whole nanny mindset is and how far people will take it, there's now a "war on soda" here in the US. Some people think that choices need to be made for people for their own good. So rather than allowing people to decide what beverages they drink and how much they drink of it, there's a push for legislature to restrict the size of soft drinks that people are allowed to buy. What this shows is that there are no limits to how far the GOV will go to control people. There's also a bill that aims to ban privately grown organic foods for sale and trade. They want all the produce to be regulated by the GOV. They want everyone to be highly dependent on the GOV. They want to make sure that people can't get anything that doesn't make a profit.

[SymphonicX]

What I'd like some of our UK friends to understand is that there are some of us who enjoy your culture and ideals very much. I love watching the rare programs you export this way, I'm currentlymaking my way through the whole run of Top Gear on Netflix for the third time as I type this. Yeah I'd be lying if I said a good 50% of everything I enjoy didn't come from the US too - bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Pantera...man I couldn't list the sheer number of artists that the US has produced that I enjoy...of course not forgetting a nod to Mr Romero's work It's because I respect America that I feel confident to say what I do really. I'd be the biggest hypocrite if I sat here slating the US in a prejudice manner, on a board based on American cinema. But the rest of your post...it's completely chilling...it goes a long way to provide actual insights to this issue and I think pretty much sums up why this isn't about the guns themselves - and that of course protecting yourself seems only natural off the back of that. ----- I've said time and time again how I hate the argument "guns don't kill people, people kill people" - I think I now understand why it gauls me so much. Because we never talk about the "people" in that statement. In a way the statement is kinda true - it's just a shitty simplification of the wider picture. It gauls me because underneath that is a bigger problem and this statement admits it, yet dismisses it - it's a statement so egotistical, it thinks it's the end of the argument. (not that I'm saying ANYONE here has used this in this thread, whatsoever - I'm just generalising about the politicising of events such as thus.).

[Neil]

People are realizing that their lives and safety and the safety of their families is their own responsibility. The authorities can only do so much, and they're never there when the shit is actually happening, they only show up in the aftermath in most cases. But surely this is just people being scaremongered into buying guns? In reality do those guns actually make them any safer? I'd suggest most likely not. eg: Are they any safer from a lone mad gunman on a mission? And if we start adding accidents into the picture from all these additional guns floating around, I'd suggest they might be less safe surely?

[SymphonicX]

I have to agree with this. I personally don't take offense to observations made by people from other countries. I think that people from other countries can provide a wider perspective on our society because they aren't caught up in it. . Thanks mate, that's nice to read. I agree and I think we analyse countries all the time here and in general as societies. Christ we've all analysed, cristicised and deconstructed MANY other countries on this board but try to delve into the US and well...God forbid. I'm glad you see it like you do. I fully agree - I celebrate that sort of communication about the UK - ask questions, make points, provide insights - it's all texture and adds to the richness of our understanding. Valuable stuff.

[childofgilead]

Yeah I'd be lying if I said a good 50% of everything I enjoy didn't come from the US too - bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Pantera...man I couldn't list the sheer number of artists that the US has produced that I enjoy...of course not forgetting a nod to Mr Romero's work It's because I respect America that I feel confident to say what I do really. I'd be the biggest hypocrite if I sat here slating the US in a prejudice manner, on a board based on American cinema. But the rest of your post...it's completely chilling...it goes a long way to provide actual insights to this issue and I think pretty much sums up why this isn't about the guns themselves - and that of course protecting yourself seems only natural off the back of that. ----- I've said time and time again how I hate the argument "guns don't kill people, people kill people" - I think I now understand why it gauls me so much. Because we never talk about the "people" in that statement. In a way the statement is kinda true - it's just a shitty simplification of the wider picture. It gauls me because underneath that is a bigger problem and this statement admits it, yet dismisses it - it's a statement so egotistical, it thinks it's the end of the argument. (not that I'm saying ANYONE here has used this in this thread, whatsoever - I'm just generalising about the politicising of events such as thus.). I'm a little confused..I don't know if you were saying that what I said made sense or were raking me over the coals for my beliefs..*shrug*..not a clue. But I feel the way I do about firearms for many reasons..I've been on the receiving end of armed robberies twice while I worked at a convenience store. I wasn't allowed to be armed. And honestly, either time wouldn't have mattered, there wasn't enough time to react and the first perp ran out the door with nothing gained. It scares me though. If either of them had simple murder on their minds, I'd be stone dead or would have some interesting scars. There was no inkling that something was going wrong, it just happened, *BAM*, then it was over. In neither situation, would I have had the time to pull a sidearm before I had a bullet in my face. On the same side of that coin, there have been two situations where I had my hand inside my jacket on my handgun coming in to my apartment after a nightshift and people were dealing on the steps outside. Police were called numerous times, they just ran inside. There was a shootout in the parking lot one night, a few cars got shot up, that's it. I'm not embellishing, I'm not exaggerating. Criminals will use guns, knives, bats, whatever they need to to scare, intimidate or hurt someone to gain what they want. That mindset is what makes them a criminal, breaking a law. I hate that I have to feel fear in my own home. I hate that I have to feel like at any moment, I can hear glass shattering in the living room and have to grab a flashlight and my 1911 out of my nightstand and investigate. I DON'T WANT TO DO THESE THINGS. But I have a responsibility to the woman I love to protect her, and I have a responsibility to protect myself. You can have my tv, but you won't have my life without a fight. I'm not trying to sound like a fudd. I'm just giving my reasoning on why I have a firearm for defense. Now, if you want to talk about a firearm for fun, I have several old military rifles and a few shotguns around for snake duty. I like to shoot at targets, it's like golf, you only compete against yourself. -- -------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ---------- I've bolded the important words in your sentence above. You see, I believe that weapons shouldn't be available to just anyone and it's far too easy to buy the most ridiculous type of weaponry in the States at the moment. I think that this situation NEEDS to be tightened up. Somebody who has exhibited the above traits and has been the subject of police action SHOULD NOT be allowed near weapons at all and if they possess them, they should be taken off of them. Weapon's AREN'T available to just anyone. In my state, if you've ever been involuntarily held on a mental health screen, you are not eligible to own a handgun. Not..sure about a long gun. But again, that's an existing law that can be enforced. But when someone breaks a law, they're thrown into jail, probably for a year or so, 6 months on good behavior, let out on probation and can just buy a gun from a neighbor or steal one. If the drug laws in this country seem too severe for you, the criminal and violent act laws in this country seem to lenient to ME.

[krisvds]

Classy move, Bale. Indeed; instead of staying in his ivory tower and lecturing politics and ethics he actually went down there and talked to/listened to the victims. Very classy.

[SymphonicX]

I'm a little confused..I don't know if you were saying that what I said made sense or were raking me over the coals for my beliefs..*shrug*..not a clue. -- -------- Post added at 11:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ---------- . sorry bud I did separate the two parts of my post with a few hyphens - the bottom part was just me thinking aloud - definitely not raking over anyone for their beliefs.... I went off on a tangent because your post got me thinking about that phrase...because what you said *did* include society in the assessment - something which I feel is sometimes lacking from the issue.

[shootemindehead]

But I feel the way I do about firearms for many reasons..I've been on the receiving end of armed robberies twice while I worked at a convenience store. I wasn't allowed to be armed. And honestly, either time wouldn't have mattered, there wasn't enough time to react and the first perp ran out the door with nothing gained. It scares me though. If either of them had simple murder on their minds, I'd be stone dead or would have some interesting scars. There was no inkling that something was going wrong, it just happened, *BAM*, then it was over. You weren't allowed carry by the shop, I presume and probably with good reason. You'd be dead, as you have already pointed out. Trying to pull a gun on someone who's pointing a gun at you will end one way, 99% of the time. Most armed robbers want the money and a quick getaway. They don't want to add murder (or attempted murder) to the list. That said, I've never been on the end of a gun, so I don't know what it feels like. I'm sure it isn't a delightful situation. Weapon's AREN'T available to just anyone. In my state, if you've ever been involuntarily held on a mental health screen, you are not eligible to own a handgun. Not..sure about a long gun. But again, that's an existing law that can be enforced. But when someone breaks a law, they're thrown into jail, probably for a year or so, 6 months on good behavior, let out on probation and can just buy a gun from a neighbor or steal one. If the drug laws in this country seem too severe for you, the criminal and violent act laws in this country seem to lenient to ME. I don't think I mentioned "drug laws" being "too severe", but it's good that "not just anyone" can get hold of guns. However, I still believe that it's far, far too easy and people exhibiting abusive traits, like the guy you mentioned previously absolutely should not be allowed near them. The laws should be broader and tighter, to eliminate the very real threat that these people possess.

[babomb]

But surely this is just people being scaremongered into buying guns? In reality do those guns actually make them any safer? I'd suggest most likely not. eg: Are they any safer from a lone mad gunman on a mission? And if we start adding accidents into the picture from all these additional guns floating around, I'd suggest they might be less safe surely? That depends on how you choose to look at it. You could say it's fear mongering and you'd be right. But I could say that it's because people feel more secure by taking responsibility for their own well being, and I'd also be right. In order to get a CCW you have to take training courses. This reduces the possibility of accidents. Also, an event like this polarizes people. So some people see an event like this and immediately take the view that guns should be abolished. Those aren't the people that go out and buy handguns and apply for CCW. The people who do that are pro-gun people already. So they're familiar with guns, and not highly intimidated by them. If you're afraid of guns you shouldn't be carrying one at all. That's how accidents happen. The more relaxed and at ease you are with guns the less likely you are to have an accident with one. If you learn to break it down and clean it, shoot it alot, keep it in a safe place, you become comfortable with it. I don't think having more guns floating around makes people less safe. Most people I know own guns. And I don't know 1 person who's ever accidentally shot themself or anyone else. I've never been witness to an accidental discharge. Personally, I'll take the risk to my security in exchange for the right to own or carry a gun. But I won't take the risk of expecting others to be responsible for my well being. Who could be more reliable to look after your well being than yourself? Cops? Screw that!!!! Our rights are constantly being trampled on by those who are supposed to protect those rights and look after our well being. here in America, we can't trust our government or our police to keep us safe because in alot of cases they're the ones that we need protection from. I don't know how things are over in the UK, but your cops probably aren't militarized shock troops like ours. America is a police state now. Check out this article and video. Then tell me if you'd trust these people to be responsible for your life and well being. http://boingboing.net/2011/11/10/police-beat-protesters-with-cl.html http://abcnews.go.com/US/occupy-prot...ry?id=14990310

[childofgilead]

Going to have to disagree with you there, shoot..it's been widely recognized, even by our Supreme Court, that the wording of the second amendment is a personal right. If the framers intended it to mean a militia, they wouldn't have said "the right of the PEOPLE"..it's a personal right, was recognized as such by the Supreme Court and that led to the laws being overturned in Washington D.C. As for the reasons behind not allowing us to carry, I happen to know them and will tell you flat out. It was about money, their rates would have skyrocketed if even one person was carrying, not to mention the fact that we would have been required to report it which is uh, kinda illegal. It just wasn't worth the hassle to me, it was "against the rules", so I didn't do it. As I said, both times wouldn't have mattered if I'd had a gun, it was over too quick. But, if they'd WANTED me dead, I'd BE dead. No doubts there either. And there are situations that I've been in that I've been GLAD I carry, yet I've never had to even pull it out. Weird huh? As for the asshole who killed his family, believe me, we did what we could, but when a wife won't say that she's afraid of her husband or that he's abusive, the police can't do jack. That's the law, like it or not. I look back and wish there was something else I could have done, but honestly, I know that we did what we could. If they'd left in the middle of the night while he was at work, he would have hunted them down. This is going to set people off..but sometimes, when there's a rabid dog in the street, he needs to be put down. This man was a rabid dog.

[shootemindehead]

As for the asshole who killed his family, believe me, we did what we could, but when a wife won't say that she's afraid of her husband or that he's abusive, the police can't do jack. That's the law, like it or not. I look back and wish there was something else I could have done, but honestly, I know that we did what we could. If they'd left in the middle of the night while he was at work, he would have hunted them down. This is going to set people off..but sometimes, when there's a rabid dog in the street, he needs to be put down. This man was a rabid dog. But, if the police aren't able to take the guns off of people like the guy you mentioned, then the wife isn't really going to open her mouth is she? That's the problem. In my mind, her rights not to be blown away supercedes his right to own guns. The regulations just have to be put in place to support that and as long as those in power are afraid to tackle it, then these types of murders and massacres will happen and will happen with increasing regularity. There's no two ways about it. It comes down to this...stricter regulations on gun ownership, or massacres. If America doesn't care (or care enough) about these massacres, to put in place tighter controls on their ability to get/retain guns, well then that's their own problem and they can save the tears and candlelight vigils. You have to be prepared to remedy the issue, or put up with the consequences.

[Sammich]

The incident in the youtube video happened on July 18th in central Florida. Yet the media ignores the numerous times per year that firearms are successfully used in self-defense. It has been shown that just displaying a firearm has stopped many crimes. If just ONE of many people in the theater who said the gunman was standing over them had a gun, he would have been stopped. "The National Self-Defense Survey indicated that there were 2.5 million incidents of defensive gun use per year in the U.S. during the 1988-1993 period."- Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.

[shootemindehead]

The incident in the youtube video happened on July 18th in central Florida. Yet the media ignores the numerous times per year that firearms are successfully used in self-defense. It has been shown that just displaying a firearm has stopped many crimes. If just ONE of many people in the theater who said the gunman was standing over them had a gun, he would have been stopped. I don't think that would have been the case. More than likely there would have been more people injured with two or more people involved in a firefight...in a darkened theatre...with panicing people running for their lives. Besides, if someone did draw their pop gun, they would lack the training to deal with such a confused situation and Holmes was armed with this... which can do this... ...and covered from head to toe in kevlar body armour.