Who was the bigger loss to the group? (Season 2 discussion)

[Andy]

Putting a question out there, in your opinion which characters death was the bigger loss to the whole group? I Want your reasons, their all different characters that served different purposes to the group, who do you think will be missed the most and why?

[rongravy]

Well, I put Dale for the fact that he kept everyone a little more human with his whiny speeches. Shane is a great guy to have around during a fight, but you never know if he's aiming for the zombie that's about to getcha, or if he was aiming for you and got him\her\it by accident... Shane might let them get you to save his own skin, and Dale would probably offer hisself up as vittles to save others.

[LouCipherr]

Dale. Pretty self explanatory when you consider the others on the list.

[krisvds]

Voted Dale. On the one hand because of his ethical humanism in a world gone cold. It's always great to see how such characters have their convictions challenged by a (zombie) apocalypse. Great opportunities for some serious character driven drama. On the other; and this is probably the main reason why I voted Dale: he was played by such a great actor... I'll miss the guy.

[AcesandEights]

Dale, but only because he was more of a loss to the narrative. I wanted them to stop using him as an ungainly counterpoint to Shane and give the character some logical attention and character growth, and now that will never happen in the TV series. Plus, Shane was clearly 'round the bend by the end of last season and was no good for anyone anymore, not even himself. If they could have dialed him back a bit, but then you're talking about a complete character overhaul.

[bassman]

Dale. As mentioned before, he was doing his best to keep the group more human. Plus i'm bummed I don't get to see his character play out like it does in the comics. Shane was doing much more harm than good by the end of the season. If he had survived into season three, he would be as much of a threat as certain characters that are coming up.

[MinionZombie]

Dale for me too. Shane was the bigger loss in terms of television, as he had made the most impact upon season two with his continued dip into instability, so losing him - while inevitable, and welcomed as dramatic storytelling - was always going to be a big loss. However, specific to the question, yes, Dale is the biggest loss to the group. I agree that he was a selfless individual who always sought to take actions that he perceived as for the good of the group, and not for himself. He made mistakes, sure, but he was always coming from a good and community-minded place. As Mazzara and co have talked about, Dale was the "moral centre" for the group, and now that they've lost him, their moral compass is thrown out of whack and they need to rediscover it for themselves - which in turn will perhaps have nasty results, but certainly lead to some skewed moments and simmering tensions bubbling under the surface, threatening to cause explosive damage to the entire group. Ooh, all this talk makes me so eager for season three!

[Cykotic]

Dale... he was the moral center of the group.

[Andy]

Maybe its my own personality clashing with dales but i really honestly dont see this "selfless moral compass" everyone is talking about. To me dale was very condescending, controlling, jealous and by far the most selfish of all the group. I hated him. I Voted Shane becuase firstly he was the muscle of the group, he could take down rick, tdog or daryl and i think physically, the group is going to be worse off without him, especially in season 3 but not only is he the muscle but i think jon bernthal's shane is the ideal Anti-rick. Basically, i think Rick needed shane to balance his own personality and make himself feel better about some of the decisions he had to make. We all saw rick in the last bit of the last episode of season 2 and how the group reacted towards him and i think without shane around, we're going to see more of "dark rick".

[AcesandEights]

Andy, I agree with a lot of what you have to say about Shane, but he was never designed to be a long term character and though his muscle and his grimmer tactical worldview as a counterpoint to Rick were both valuable, Shane had to go based on the speed with which his character was coming apart mentally. Had he been written differently it would be a different story, but that's completely moot.

[Andy]

I Think you misunderstand my post.. i know shane had to die.. i been reading the comics for years and years man, i knew shanes role and i knew he was on borrowed time pretty much after the third episode of season 1 :P Im just posing the question, theoretically, who's death poses the greatest loss to the group and i think shanes, even though it was inevitable.

[AcesandEights]

Im just posing the question, theoretically, who's death poses the greatest loss to the group and i think shanes, even though it was inevitable. I know, but my whole point is: what use is Shane if he's a crazed, homicidal loose-cannon? Now, if you want to say theoretically if Shane hadn't been as fractious and dangerous to the group, would he have been more useful than Dale? Sure. Then again, Dale wasn't always written very well, either. I think comic book Dale would have been better than the Dale that was written for the TV show. Frankly, I'd rather see some of the really capable characters from the comics that should have been introduced a while ago and never made the cut. One in particular stands out and I assume because he would have been too much like Shane without Shane's love triangle baggage he was left out of the TV show (or morphed into the gelded T-Dog character).

[paranoid101]

The loss of Jimmy eaten in the unlocked RV was the biggest lost in season 2 :P Kidding aside I would say Dale too, but I also think the loss of Sophia had a big impact on the group too.

[Andy]

Sophia i understand but somebody please explain this dale thing to me? I ask and ask and ask and i just get the same rhetoric answer "he's moral compass" or "he's the groups conscience" but never anything he actually does. Shanes actually provided for the group, he originally pulled them together, taught them how to survive and has put his life at risk for several different members of the group now, Ok he was starting to unravel but can you blame him? Rick just turns up and next day he's leader of the group without any real reason.. the situation is handled alot better in the comics, rick turns up but shane remains the leader of the group and rick adopts a more "second man" position until shane dies when he takes over but in the TV series, he just turns up and claims the group. That always bothered me.. its not handled well at all. Shane is treated like crap by both rick and lori and i can completely understand why he unravels. He's still the most physically capable of the group and like i said, a brilliant counterbalance for rick. I Think without shane around we are going to see a new side of rick in season 3, a darker side which is much closer to the source material but at the same time i think alot of you TV Season fans are gonna hate becuase his personality is closer to shanes! Anyway back to my point. What does dale actually do apart from act like a arrogant, condescending, controlling and jealous little man whos full of repressed anger and dosnt know how to release it. I dont see any good in the character at all where as i see shane as a very deep and complicated character yet i seem to be in the minority on this one so its bothering me.. either im missing something or im watching different episodes to everyone else lol

[krisvds]

If Dale was a great charachter it's because of dramatic reasons. Putting someone with such a moral code in a violent world where giving up a lot of your ideals equals survival opens up a lot of dramatic opportunities. They werent realised and a lot of that is down to sloppy writing. I like the show but it is full of that. Shane was fun as long as he was allowed to be the psychopath who could turn on his own team at any given moment. Take that away and have him be the bad ass zombie killer/tough leader making the tough decisions and he would be just that: muscle man shooting zombies. Not much depth to his character, boring. The only opportunity for character driven drama he proposed was that tiresome love triangle ... I'd much rather see the old 'moral compass' come apart.