And it begins: Obama Renews Push to Reduce Gun Violence

[Mr. Clean]

Prof., he's not electable and I can't see him getting the nomination, but that might very well not be how he sees it. We still have a long 4 years to go and alot could change but seems Hiliary is already the libs pick for 2016.

[aaron2]

I agree with you on this entirely! This is the time American government take a stand on the issues like crime and guns! The incident is really a sad spot on human-beings!

[babomb]

I agree with you on this entirely! This is the time American government take a stand on the issues like crime and guns! The incident is really a sad spot on human-beings! So then you think that Obama should circumvent congress and disarm the people?

[Staredge]

They've already talked about him using executive privilege to "do something". Lovely.

[Neil]

Am I hearing right that assault rifle sales are going mad in the US at the moment?

[Tricky]

A couple of posts from a British army forum that I happen to agree with I'm currently in the US, and I think the problem is primarily one of attitude. Every disturbed lunatic and weird goth recluse in this country is armed to the teeth. Most sensible, law-abiding people are not. This, regardless of gun laws, is what enables situations like the one in Connecticut. In my opinion, there are two key things that need to happen. 1 - Discourage lunatics from gun ownership I think a lot could and should be done to make gun ownership less 'sexy'. Guns and associated equipment are sold in a very macho way, with brands like 'killzone' and an overt focus on patriotism. I believe that the marketing surrounding guns and associated products should be limited in the same way that cigarette advertising is in the UK. I agree with the argument that an AR-15 is no more dangerous than a semi-auto pistol. However, I think there's a solid argument for a ban in that it's a military style weapon that is poorly suited to any legitimate application. The sale of this type of weapon seems to feed the fantasies of the deranged while providing little value to those whose stated aim is to hunt or protect themselves. If military style weapons were currently banned, I could not think of a single reason why they should be legalised. If a ban were introduced, I accept that criminals would still have access to these weapons. However, shooters seem to use legally held firearms and do not have criminal connections. 2 - Encourage non-lunatics to own and carry guns Law abiding people do not carry guns because it is a big responsibility, costs a lot of money and involves hassle. To carry a gun in most states, you need to first attend a course and gain a concealed carry permit. It's also seen as something out of the ordinary; the preserve of walter mitty types, lunatics, gangsters and rednecks. For most well-balanced, law-abiding people, this means that they'd need a compelling reason to purchase and carry a firearm. Excepting those who live in very dangerous areas, this would mean a change in the way that guns and gun owners are viewed by society. 5aN2n3.jpg I think you've hit the nail on the head there! It's not a matter of ownership or non ownership. I know people with what can only be described as arsenals of legally owned firearms and shotguns. The thought of them using a bumper sticker with a threatening undertone wouldn't cross their minds any more than switching stands on the clay range with the gun not safely in its slip, or mouthing off at the local how they'd "pop a cap in the ass" of anyone intruding on their land. Legal owners of firearms and shotguns (and even air guns to a degree) seem to feel far more compelled to show restraint, sensibility, purpose for ownership, and crucially and attitude where the gun is a dangerous piece of kit, to be treated with respect, fired when safe and where safe to do so, and stored in a locked cabinet, separate rom ammunition. The problem in the USA seems to be a Gung-Ho mentality, lightly seasoned with some Hollywood bravado and cheesy catchphrases and before too long you've got a country where it's socially acceptable, if not desirable to not only own guns, but have them scattered around the house, and more worryingly, loaded and accessible. The sad truth is, it's more likely to be their own son taking the loaded gun to perform a massacre due to his shitty paranoid life than the registered owner, or an intruder who gets lucky while they sleep, stumbling through an unsecured armoury while the home owner sleeps. If any UK gun owner were to sport a bumper sticker like the one shown above or to broadcast their intent and willingness to shoot a fellow human, they would be handing in their guns and certificates quicker than one can say "unfit"! That's the difference between the USA and the UK, attitude.

[babomb]

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...thomas-sowell# Interesting view.

[Publius]

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...thomas-sowell# Interesting view. Not just a view, straight fact. The UK has a lower crime rate than the US, true, but the disparity was even greater back when the UK had practically no gun control. The days when Conan Doyle wrote about Sherlock Holmes sticking a revolver in his pocket before leaving home and no one batted an eye. Fared Zakaria recently wrote an article in the Washington Post about how the wisdom of an "assault weapon" ban is "blindingly obvious" because Australia had a significant drop in firearm homicide after enacting one in 1996. What he didn't note, of course, is that the US had an equivalent drop in homicide rates over the same period while generally expanding gun rights.

[strayrider]

A couple of posts from a British army forum that I happen to agree with Shall I check my critical thinking skills in at the door? -stray-

[babomb]

A couple of posts from a British army forum that I happen to agree with Every disturbed lunatic and weird goth recluse in this country is armed to the teeth. Most sensible, law-abiding people are not. This, regardless of gun laws, is what enables situations like the one in Connecticut. How is that even possible for 1 thing? And how is it possible to know that? It's a bold statement that defies logic and has no way of being verified. I agree with the argument that an AR-15 is no more dangerous than a semi-auto pistol. However, I think there's a solid argument for a ban in that it's a military style weapon that is poorly suited to any legitimate application. The sale of this type of weapon seems to feed the fantasies of the deranged while providing little value to those whose stated aim is to hunt or protect themselves. If military style weapons were currently banned, I could not think of a single reason why they should be legalised. This is also not an accurate concept. The reason people own assault weapons is for protection against a government that's out of control and has the same weaponry. Anyone who associates the 2nd ammendment with hunting/sport shooting/personal defense from criminals, does not understand why the 2nd ammendment was instituted. And this is the vast majority of people, from America as well as abroad. The fact that they are military style weapons is the exact reason why people should be allowed to own them. How can a person protect themselves and their country from those weapons without owning weapons that are equally as capable? As to the bumper sticker, it's just a stupid saying. It doesn't mean the owner of the vehicle puts it into play as a governing philosophy. Does this^ bumper sticker saying actually mean that if someone hits his car he will kill them?

[DjfunkmasterG]

Congrats on post 420 babomb (Woo hoo, 420) Anyway, here is my take, and I have said it before... I am a left wing liberal who owns guns. Real and stage weaponry. I prefer pistols, but I also have a 12 gauge. I do not own an M4 or M16 simply because I have no need for that kind of weapon, but just because I don't have a need for it, doesn't mean no one else does, so I don't like the government banning guns in general. Guns do not kill people. The stupid mutherfuckers with access to guns kill people. I have posted this a lot recently to those wanting to take guns away. GO to a family or firends house who owns a lot of guns or just one gun. Sit at their house and have a discussion about anything, tell me when you leave how many people that gun in their house killed while you were there. I have heard responses most people don't comprehend, such as, well it won't hurt anyone because no one is holding it, but it kills people as it is a gun. WHAT! Those crying for gun control haven't owned a gun, and don't understand the object, needs a secondary intervention to become lethal. As it stands by itself, laying on a table or in a cabinet, it is just an object, but in the wrong hands it can become a weapon. Some say let us institute testing on the human state before someone can buy a gun. That will get you nowhere. I could be mentally unstable... doesn't mean I would fail the test. Some of the smartest folks in the world have mental problems, if they want that weapon bad enough they can rehearse their way through an examination, pass it and get the gun. I like owning my gun(s), I am now in a state where I can legally open carry, but I have a concealed permit as well. However, I don't open carry, and don't conceal carry. Most of my day to day is just sitting at home working remotely, so if I need a gun bad enough to protect myself it is one room away. However, even when I go out and run errands I hardly carry, hell I would say 99.9% of the time I do not carry. Now if the news said there are 10 armed men running loose in my neighbor hood, you damn skippy I would carry before I walked out the door. I will never turn to the right politically, but I will support the right to own a gun.

[babomb]

Congrats on post 420 babomb (Woo hoo, 420) Anyway, here is my take, and I have said it before... I am a left wing liberal who owns guns. Real and stage weaponry. I prefer pistols, but I also have a 12 gauge. I do not own an M4 or M16 simply because I have no need for that kind of weapon, but just because I don't have a need for it, doesn't mean no one else does, so I don't like the government banning guns in general. Guns do not kill people. The stupid mutherfuckers with access to guns kill people. I have posted this a lot recently to those wanting to take guns away. GO to a family or firends house who owns a lot of guns or just one gun. Sit at their house and have a discussion about anything, tell me when you leave how many people that gun in their house killed while you were there. I have heard responses most people don't comprehend, such as, well it won't hurt anyone because no one is holding it, but it kills people as it is a gun. WHAT! Those crying for gun control haven't owned a gun, and don't understand the object, needs a secondary intervention to become lethal. As it stands by itself, laying on a table or in a cabinet, it is just an object, but in the wrong hands it can become a weapon. Some say let us institute testing on the human state before someone can buy a gun. That will get you nowhere. I could be mentally unstable... doesn't mean I would fail the test. Some of the smartest folks in the world have mental problems, if they want that weapon bad enough they can rehearse their way through an examination, pass it and get the gun. I like owning my gun(s), I am now in a state where I can legally open carry, but I have a concealed permit as well. However, I don't open carry, and don't conceal carry. Most of my day to day is just sitting at home working remotely, so if I need a gun bad enough to protect myself it is one room away. However, even when I go out and run errands I hardly carry, hell I would say 99.9% of the time I do not carry. Now if the news said there are 10 armed men running loose in my neighbor hood, you damn skippy I would carry before I walked out the door. I will never turn to the right politically, but I will support the right to own a gun. I didn't even notice my post count was at 420. I guess this one will ruin it. I like your take on the subject. I agree that most people calling for more gun control are people that are totally unfamiliar with them. I don't own any assault rifles either. All the men in my family were hunters, so I only own hunting weapons. My problem with gun control is really not even about the guns themselves. To me it's an issue of liberty and the preservation of the constitution. 2nd to that I think it's a preparedness issue also. It really aggravates me though to hear the rhetoric coming from the anti-gun crowd. It's obvious that they don't know anything about guns, and most of them don't even understand what the 2nd amendment is even about. This new gun control bill they're pushing is total BS. They want to ban certain guns based solely on the fact that they look "scary". No pistol grips or telescoping stocks. Neither one of those things makes the gun any more lethal than a gun that doesn't have them. So that's an indication of the logic being used here. It's just more fear mongering. Another thing is that every single one of these shooters was on anti-psychotic medication, SSRI's. Which are known to have these kind of effects. It's been known for years that those medications cause aggression and suicidal tendencies, and they vary from person to person. But you don't hear anyone saying they should take those medications off the market or ban them altogether. All you hear is "BAN GUNS". Which is another indication of the 1 sided, fear based logic that's behind this whole thing. But nobody really wants to hear that. They just want to ban guns and that's all there is to it. And the liberty issue and the fact that it's unconstitutional means absolutely nothing to these people. And IMO, that's the most disturbing aspect of it. These are fellow Americans, and they don't understand the concepts that the constitution is based on, and they don't give a shit about it. If you try to make them aware of those issues, all they have to say is that the constitution was written with muskets in mind, and that the constitution was written by drunken slave owners. Which goes to show that these people don't think well of America or the concepts that it was created under. They enjoy the benefits of a so called free society, but they feel no obligation to uphold those liberties, and will trade them off at the drop of a hat. They'll sit back and watch as laws are passed to deprive them of their freedoms and stay absolutely silent on it. They'll drive around with bumper stickers that say "Obama for peace" while he continues to kill women and children with drone strikes in other countries, and stay completely silent on that one too. These are highly emotional and easily manipulated people who don't really understand what's going on or what's really at stake here. And the future of our nation and our liberty is in their hands.

[DjfunkmasterG]

A lot of those drugs are dangerous. Take Wellbutrin for example. It is an antidepressant but it has smoking cesstation properties as well. I was precribed it to stop smoking, worked great the first two weeks, then suddenly I became more and more aggressive (more than i am when smoking, those who know me are probably saing.. "How much worse?") It was pretty bad, so bad to the point my own boss begged me to start smoking again, as I was an angry shit day and night for the other 4 weeks I was on Wellbutrin. Tried Chantix, but it didn't work, so here I am in year 26 of smoking. I still remember to his day how miserable I was on that medication and even the doc won't prescribe it again, so he just came to grips with the fact I will probably be a smoker for life. But that stuff... WOW... little things would set you off, and I owned my guns at the time this happened, but still in my most angered state I never considered getting one and shooting up work, school whatever. Because in the back of my mind... I just remembered, I don't like small places and prison is a small space. Just saying.

[strayrider]

DJ: You are correct. Owning a gun gives you the ultimate right to say "No!" to a social miscreant bent on controlling your fate. Bomb: You are correct. Owning a gun gives you the ultimate right to say "No!" to a political miscreant bent on controlling your fate. And vice versa. -stray-

[DjfunkmasterG]

Like Babomb has said many try to use the 2nd ammendment incorrectly. The NRA doesn't help this whatsoever because they cloud the issue in political rhetoric. The severe rightwingers, and the gun debate worry me. It make me think this is how they bring up their children.