Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (film)

[EvilNed]

yeah, you keep repeating that as if everyone must share your opinion. There are plenty of people that do like these movies, you know.... Nobody must share my opinion but I mean I can point to matter-of-fact point that illustrate why it's a ridiculous film. The question is wether you like the film despite of (or maybe because of) those ridiculous points. I like being part of the zeitgeist, as I love film. I'm just sad that this is the kind of cinema we get these days.

[Neil]

yeah, you keep repeating that as if everyone must share your opinion. There are plenty of people that do like these movies, you know.... - - - Updated - - - A deleted scene that will be in the upcoming Blu Ray release of the ultimate cut. Spoilers for those that've yet to see the film....   So it looks like this scene will take place after the death of Superman, before we see Luthor in jail. I'm not sure what the creature is supposed to be, but it's holding mother boxes, which are what the villain darkseid sends throughout the universe. Luthor was warning Batman about Darkseid's arrival in that jail scene, so I'm assuming this creature is the one that told him about it all. We also see that a mother box is responsible for the creation of Cyborg on Luthor's flash drive, plus multiple references to Darkseid in Batman's "Knightmare"(which I actually think was a look to the future rather than a dream), so this seems to go alittle further in explaining Luthor's fear and reaction in the cell with Batman. I must admit, Luthor's creation of "super monster" does seem a bit messy. He just seems to do some random stuff, and out comes a super monster!? Why does he need his blood in the equation for example? Anything that can help explain any of the events in the film are welcome IMHO, because some of them need it

[bassman]

I must admit, Luthor's creation of "super monster" does seem a bit messy. He just seems to do some random stuff, and out comes a super monster!? Why does he need his blood in the equation for example. From what I gathered, he introduced his blood into the gensis chamber(the creator of Kryptonians in MOS) as an attempt to have the creation be a part of him, so he could then control it. The Genesis chamber warned him that it would create an abomination, or some such dialogue, but he was overzealous and at his wits end because his plan to have Batman kill Supes had failed, that he did it anyway. Rather than give him the ability to control Doomsday, it just further developed the creature into an angry Monster with intent to destroy everything in its path. In fact, Luthor was going to be his first kill, had Supes not saved him...

[Neil]

because his plan to have Batman kill Supes had failed But he didn't know that until long long after he created "super monster"... ie: He started the process before he even bribed Superman... And as regards the fight between Batman and Superman, how many times does each of them need to draw out a killer blow? And why create a kryptonite spear, when kyptonite bullets would surely be a far more effect delivery method? I thought Batman was clever like that? Oh! Of course, we needed a spear for Supes to fly along with it...

[bassman]

Ha, good call on the Kryptonite bullets! That's actually Batman's fail safe plan in many Justice League comics and movies. Just in case Superman goes rogue. Bats did have the Kryptonite grenade launcher, but I suppose they wanted to stray away from bats carrying an actual firearm. Outside of the dream sequence, anyway. Plus, as you say, Supes had to have that spear! Speaking of the spear....why not throw it into Doomsday while WW had him tied up with her lasso? The guy can lift space rockets and drag ocean liners across ice, so surely he could throw it with enough force? Buuuuut....maybe he couldn't do that just because he was near the Kryptonite and it was weakening him. Now that I mention it, didn't he even have trouble flying while holding it? I seem to remember him almost walking on all fours with it as he tried to lift off. So maybe the only way to penetrate Doomsday was to get close to him, so that they were both on the same playing field, strength wise? I gotta see this thing again to get some answers!

[Neil]

Ha, good call on the Kryptonite bullets! That's actually Batman's fail safe plan in many Justice League comics and movies. Just in case Superman goes rogue. Bats did have the Kryptonite grenade launcher, but I suppose they wanted to stray away from bats carrying an actual firearm. Outside of the dream sequence, anyway. Plus, as you say, Supes had to have that spear! Speaking of the spear....why not throw it into Doomsday while WW had him tied up with her lasso? The guy can lift space rockets and drag ocean liners across ice, so surely he could throw it with enough force? Buuuuut....maybe he couldn't do that just because he was near the Kryptonite and it was weakening him. Now that I mention it, didn't he even have trouble flying while holding it? I seem to remember him almost walking on all fours with it as he tried to lift off. So maybe the only way to penetrate Doomsday was to get close to him, so that they were both on the same playing field, strength wise? I gotta see this thing again to get some answers! I suspect many of these points will have the answer of "because"... I must admit the super dooper bouncy fighting just got on my wick, although not as much as Man Of Steel. And the fact Wonder Woman piles in and seems to be able to fight back a being possibly more powerful that Superman? Just leaves me not really caring, when everyone seems invulnerable? ps: How did Superman know to dive down into the water to get the "spear" he didn't know was down there? Guess his X-ray vision, or he sensed it? Might have been nice if that had even just been acknowledged by a look on his face of knowing/realisation?

[bassman]

I assumed he knew it was there because he had to save Lois after she tried to retrieve it. The water was glowing green, iirc.

[EvilNed]

Just came back from seeing it. I'll start with the bad stuff. What the fuck was this shit. This isn't Batman v Superman. That's not even half of the film. What's with this stupid "Metahuman" subplot that leads nowhere? Why do we get Batman's stupid nightmares, that don't get any pay-off whatsoever? The last of which is a prolonged fucking post-apocalyptic abortion? Why is Wonder Woman in this? Why is Martha captured and then rescued within the span of 15 minutes? Why does Lex Luthor spas out? Why does he waltz into the Kryptonian ship and just know exactly which buttons to push? When did the Kryptonian voice control learn english? What the fuck does Doomsday have to do with this? What the hell did Lois Lane investigation of that stupid bullet even lead to? Why does the entire film build up to Batman fighting Superman and then just have Batman turn by the mere mention of a name? When did Lois Lane develop the power of foresight and predict the inception of Doomsday, managing to convince both Supes and Batman in the process to go get him? In under 5 seconds, no less? Why did the US government nuke Doomsday and Supes without trying anything else? Why did we get yet ANOTHER fight between immortals wrecking buildings left and right? The problem with this film is that's it's pushing so many pointless plots all over the place that it loses focus of what we actually came to see: BATMAN AND SUPERMAN. And the sad part is, that plot is actually interesting. If that's what the film had been about, it would have been good. But it wasn't. It was about a thousand other things, many of which lead nowhere. You could've have removed the entire Wonder woman subplot, Doomsday subplot, Lois Lane investigation subplot, Batman nightmares, most of the Lex Luthor scenes in general and just put more focus on Superman's inner conflict and Batman's urge to destroy Supes and ended up with a simpler, shorter, more coherent and way better film. As for the good part? Ben Affleck. He was good. Also, what's with Metropolis and people just staying in skyscrapers until the very last minute? What are you, idiots? Is there not a single cell bent on survival in your bodies? EDIT: Also, Eisenberg was pretty shit. Not a good Lex at all. Or maybe he's just not a good actor. I'm still on the fence. EDIT2: Furthermore, I couldn't really figure out wether everyone was retarded or if they all knew Clark Kent was Superman all along. Clark Kent was built like a bodybuilder in this. There's just no way around the fact that this guy is not a pencil-pusher... EDIT3: Jesus christ, I just remembered that stupid scene where Batman was visited from... Flash from the future? or something? Out of fucking nowhere? and it's NEVER explained. What's even more confusing is that it's preceeded by some kind of Mad Max inspired nightmare. Which is.. so... ridiculously out of place.

[Neil]

^^ To most of your points... Yes! It seemed a bit messy TBH! And you didn't mention Kevin Cosner on a mountain top!? There were some wonderful ideas we caught glimpses of, but many were just squandered. eg: The whole notion of Superman almost being a deity deserved some more time... And I'd suggest the flash backs to Batmans "birth" were no where near as powerful as in Batman Begins. eg: His father trying to be a hero and ultimately getting himself and his wife killed in this version... With lots of arty silly bouncing pearls...

[shootemindehead]

As for the good part? Ben Affleck. He was good. You'll be delighted to hear that he's directing the next one so.

[EvilNed]

There were some wonderful ideas we caught glimpses of, but many were just squandered. eg: The whole notion of Superman almost being a deity deserved some more time... Yes. That's a very interesting idea. But it falls so flat because everyone keeps applying it to Supes - except Supes himself. Lex' entire motivation seem to be built around that he dislikes Superman becuase he doesn't like almighty gods. But... Superman isn't almighty. He doesn't claim to be. He never made that claim and it's clear he isn't. He's not omniscient, he's not omnipotent, he's just very very powerful. But this isn't explored. Lex' motivation is just as half-assed as the rest of the 500 plotlines. And I'd suggest the flash backs to Batmans "birth" were no where near as powerful as in Batman Begins. eg: His father trying to be a hero and ultimately getting himself and his wife killed in this version... With lots of arty silly bouncing pearls... That was such a waste of screentime. Everyone knows Batman's origin story. Everyone. Why include it? It brings NOTHING to the film we haven't seen done before and done better. Batman Begins, a film still fresh in everyone's mind, was a film centered entirely around Batman's origins. It's featured in the old Keaton film. It's in every animated version of Batman that's been released the last 20 years. Did we really need to see it... Again? When there's so much more important stuff to focus on? But no. Let's show that. And some stupid mad max nightmare. And a 5 minute cringeworthy expositional scene devoted entirely to presenting three characters who are not even in the film, but who might turn up in the next one - well whoopdeedoo, you just took Marvel's End Credits schtick and made an entire fucking subplot out of it that goes NOWHERE.

[Neil]

You'll be delighted to hear that he's directing the next one so. Fingers crossed with that!

[bassman]

Trailer for the Ultimate Edition release with 30+ minutes extra footage: https://youtu.be/8AO19XY2rqc Snyder says this is his preferred cut of the film, the studio just couldn't allow the length and extra bits of violence. There does seem to be quite a bit more, even entirely new characters that weren't in the theatrical cut at all. While I enjoyed the film, there's no denying that it has it's fair share of issues, so perhaps this will be an improvement? I've found Snyder's previous director's cuts to be better than the theatrical versions, so hopefully this will be the same. Digital download at the end of this month, Blu Ray on July 19th.

[Neil]

Trailer for the Ultimate Edition release with 30+ minutes extra footage: https://youtu.be/8AO19XY2rqc Snyder says this is his preferred cut of the film, the studio just couldn't allow the length and extra bits of violence. There does seem to be quite a bit more, even entirely new characters that weren't in the theatrical cut at all. While I enjoyed the film, there's no denying that it has it's fair share of issues, so perhaps this will be an improvement? I've found Snyder's previous director's cuts to be better than the theatrical versions, so hopefully this will be the same. Digital download at the end of this month, Blu Ray on July 19th. Do we find out some other people have a mummy called Martha? I felt rather unmoved by most of it when I saw it at the cinema, with some sections just feeling over long, and over-needy... And IMHO the entire pivot point of the script just seemed a tad contrived and illogical (ie: We're better of trying to kill a nigh on God, therefore meaning he can't help us in the future, and indeed, may make him attack us for attempting it) that I sort of didn't sign on from the start... I'll probably be giving it a miss TBH unless I hear good reviews.

[rongravy]

Trailer for the Ultimate Edition release with 30+ minutes extra footage: https://youtu.be/8AO19XY2rqc Snyder says this is his preferred cut of the film, the studio just couldn't allow the length and extra bits of violence. There does seem to be quite a bit more, even entirely new characters that weren't in the theatrical cut at all. While I enjoyed the film, there's no denying that it has it's fair share of issues, so perhaps this will be an improvement? I've found Snyder's previous director's cuts to be better than the theatrical versions, so hopefully this will be the same. Digital download at the end of this month, Blu Ray on July 19th. Can't wait to buy it. Since it's a ways away, I'm going to see it again at the movies. It's only $3, so....