TWD 4x04 "Indifference" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[zomtom]

Rick really didn't have the right to do what he did. He should've given her the choice of leaving on her own, or being judged by the council. He's doing the same thing he said she didn't have the right to do. Make decisions like that. Rick retired the Ricktatorship in favor of the council. How is the council ever gonna be a legitimate entity if people keep making decisions on their own, outside of the council? All the other members of the group should be pissed off that Rick acted without taking things up with the council. After all, isn't that what the council was created for? To make decisions on the behalf of the group as a whole. Totally agree with you!! It seems Carol has become the cold and calculating one this year. Wasn't that Rick last year? Who the hell is he to make decisions on somebody's fate? I remember him serenely driving by the "backpack guy last year" without even looking back. Then on the return trip, he had the audacity to stop and pick up the dead guy's backpack. That was cold!! Who the hell is he to judge?? I hope Daryl, Hershel and some of the others rip into him for his decision. It WASN'T his to make. That is why they have a council. I just hope Carol makes a comeback. I know he meant well but he was still wrong!! - - - Updated - - - Rick really didn't have the right to do what he did. He should've given her the choice of leaving on her own, or being judged by the council. He's doing the same thing he said she didn't have the right to do. Make decisions like that. Rick retired the Ricktatorship in favor of the council. How is the council ever gonna be a legitimate entity if people keep making decisions on their own, outside of the council? All the other members of the group should be pissed off that Rick acted without taking things up with the council. After all, isn't that what the council was created for? To make decisions on the behalf of the group as a whole. Totally agree with you!! It seems Carol has become the cold and calculating one this year. Wasn't that Rick last year? Who the hell is he to make decisions on somebody's fate? I remember him serenely driving by the "backpack guy last year" without even looking back. Then on the return trip, he had the audacity to stop and pick up the dead guy's backpack. That was cold!! Who the hell is he to judge?? I hope Daryl, Hershel and some of the others rip into him for his decision. It WASN'T his to make. That is why they have a council. I just hope Carol makes a comeback. I know he meant well but he was still wrong!!

[babomb]

It was clearly stated what might happen if "The Council" found out about Carol's actions. Sasha is part of the council, she tells Tyreese, then Tyreese murders Carol. One problem on top of another. Rick tried to end it in the best way he could. Although....it's pretty obvious that Carol will come back around sooner or later. Rick still has to go back.... I get that. But she should've been given the choice. That wasn't his choice to make on his own. It's not as if exiling Carol resolves the problem or prevents her actions from causing other problems. Tyreese is gonna be pissed that Rick handled it on his own, and the rest of the council should also be pissed that he handled it on his own like that. It was very hypocritical. I understand the logic Rick used. I just don't agree with it. It tells the council that Rick doesn't have faith in them to handle problems. That at any point, Rick might choose to handle things himself without talking to them. This doesn't bode well for trust within the group.

[Publius]

I get that. But she should've been given the choice. That wasn't his choice to make on his own. It's not as if exiling Carol resolves the problem or prevents her actions from causing other problems. Tyreese is gonna be pissed that Rick handled it on his own, and the rest of the council should also be pissed that he handled it on his own like that. It was very hypocritical. I understand the logic Rick used. I just don't agree with it. It tells the council that Rick doesn't have faith in them to handle problems. That at any point, Rick might choose to handle things himself without talking to them. This doesn't bode well for trust within the group. I agree with you. The most charitable explanation is that the meaningful looks between the two and the fact that Carol ultimately went away without too much argument were meant to convey that Carol knew what her other option was, and Rick knew what Carol preferred. At least it's not like Carol said "no Rick, give me the chance to explain myself to the council," with Rick responding "I've made my decision, and it's final." Maybe Rick will even tell the council that Carol made the choice. But Tyreese will still be pissed.

[zomtom]

Just watched the episode again (yes, I know I don't have a life) and I watched it with closed-captioning so I didn't miss a damned word. I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I'm NOT convinced Carol killed Karen and David. I honestly think she's covering for that little girl (Lizzie, I think?) whom she took under her wing. If you watch the opening scene, Carol is talking to Lizzie, while Rick is loading the car before their road trip. Rick opens that canvas full of knives and one is surely missing. The next scene has Carol asking Lizzie where her knife is and Lizzie picks up her shirt to show her. The handle sure looks awfully similar to the previous scene. Then you have Lizzie telling Carol "she is NOT weak". This is all conjecture on my part but I think Lizzie was trying to prove something to Carol and now Carol feels responsible. Plain and simple, Lizzie killed those two and Carol is covering for her. I guess we'll find out soon enough. And once again, as I mentioned earlier, Rick may have meant well but he had no right to make that decision on his own. Hell, two episodes ago, he was playing a Quaker who didn't want to touch a gun. Now he's becoming a leader? That's just messed up!!

[Moon Knight]

Well, Rick did say to her that there's a chance Daryl and others might not make it back and the sick group members perish with them. Rick didn't want Carol anywhere near Carl and Judith. It's still a controversial decision but it wouldn't be The Walking Dead if it wasn't. - - - Updated - - - Just watched the episode again (yes, I know I don't have a life) and I watched it with closed-captioning so I didn't miss a damned word. I'm not sure if I'm missing something but I'm NOT convinced Carol killed Karen and David. I honestly think she's covering for that little girl (Lizzie, I think?) whom she took under her wing. If you watch the opening scene, Carol is talking to Lizzie, while Rick is loading the car before their road trip. Rick opens that canvas full of knives and one is surely missing. The next scene has Carol asking Lizzie where her knife is and Lizzie picks up her shirt to show her. The handle sure looks awfully similar to the previous scene. Then you have Lizzie telling Carol "she is NOT weak". This is all conjecture on my part but I think Lizzie was trying to prove something to Carol and now Carol feels responsible. Plain and simple, Lizzie killed those two and Carol is covering for her. I guess we'll find out soon enough. And once again, as I mentioned earlier, Rick may have meant well but he had no right to make that decision on his own. Hell, two episodes ago, he was playing a Quaker who didn't want to touch a gun. Now he's becoming a leader? That's just messed up!! I could still see it go down like that.

[MinionZombie]

Crikey! Carol's been exiled! I didn't see that coming. Another good episode - Daryl's forehead moment with Bob, he was damn mad there. He'd welcomed Bob into the group, given him responsibility, even after his confession, and then he's immediately repaid with that. I guess he knows a thing or two about addiction demons (what with Merle), but at the same time, the sheer disappointment of your trust being violated - and particularly in a life or death situation. A fascinating episode between Rick and Carol - lots of meat to chew on there. He gave her a good shot, supplies and fuel etc, but damn ... the burden of a leader, as was said earlier. I wonder if that guy (Sam?) will come back at some point - we didn't see him dead, right? Just the girl. Loved the hedge walkers moment - good that they're managing to dream up inventive new moments that really stand out. I also liked them encountering 'walkers+' ... the really rotten ones that are diseased ... between a rock and a hard place and having to escape super-infection.

[Rottedfreak]

I think that girl was murdered, her leg looked like it had been cut off and surely given her disability she would have screamed. Also that was a well maintained neighborhood Rick and Carol were in, clean cars, mowed lawns and hedges. Maybe they should have done more like show it was a survivors camp until the flu killed them.

[kidgloves]

Extremely difficult decision for Rick, but the right one. He had to do something.

[Harleydude666]

I get that. But she should've been given the choice. That wasn't his choice to make on his own. It's not as if exiling Carol resolves the problem or prevents her actions from causing other problems. Tyreese is gonna be pissed that Rick handled it on his own, and the rest of the council should also be pissed that he handled it on his own like that. It was very hypocritical. I understand the logic Rick used. I just don't agree with it. It tells the council that Rick doesn't have faith in them to handle problems. That at any point, Rick might choose to handle things himself without talking to them. This doesn't bode well for trust within the group. It's debatable. I'm not picking on you here Babomb or anyone who agree's with you, I just hope you're not picking on the writing, I hope it's just Rick you guys are picking on. I think the writing in this situation is beautiful to have Rick make this decision and have posters here consider him here as a hypocrite. I personally think he made this decision carefully with Carol's best interest in mind. Rick knows if he brings her back from camp Tyreese is too much of a loose cannon and Rick knows that more than anyone. And if Ty kills Carol more than all hell breaks loose and the camp ends right there. Rick knows the situation can't be controlled if he brings her back. In this case Carol has a chance because after all Rick still cares about her and peace somewhat remains at camp. But I also believe there is a certain part of Rick that he is intimidated by Carol now and does not trust her around his kids, a good point he made. I'm not sticking up for Rick because I get what you guys are saying but all the same I think he's looking at the bigger picture here.

[Moon Knight]

It's debatable. I'm not picking on you here Babomb or anyone who agree's with you, I just hope you're not picking on the writing, I hope it's just Rick you guys are picking on. I think the writing in this situation is beautiful to have Rick make this decision and have posters here consider him here as a hypocrite. I personally think he made this decision carefully with Carol's best interest in mind. Rick knows if he brings her back from camp Tyreese is too much of a loose cannon and Rick knows that more than anyone. And if Ty kills Carol more than all hell breaks loose and the camp ends right there. Rick knows the situation can't be controlled if he brings her back. In this case Carol has a chance because after all Rick still cares about her and peace somewhat remains at camp. But I also believe there is a certain part of Rick that he is intimidated by Carol now and does not trust her around his kids, a good point he made. I'm not sticking up for Rick because I get what you guys are saying but all the same I think he's looking at the bigger picture here. Agree with this post 100%.

[AcesandEights]

I actually think Rick made a decent and pretty human (not saying humane) decision. I don't know if it's what I would have done, but I thought it was fine given his concern for his kids and doubt about Carol's reliability. I'd have considered just keeping Carol around, as she made a ridiculously extreme decision, but is very useful and otherwise seems stable. This is only based on the assumption that her two supposed victims were as sickly and far along towards death as she claims...which I would have probed a lot more about if I had been in Rick's shoes. I'm not too bothered about Rick making a unilateral decision in this case, as the matters back at the prison point to chaos and the last thing that is needed is more murder and mayhem. Of course, I agree with those of you who think there's more than meets the eye in "The Case of the Two Burned Bodies".

[facestabber]

Rick takes way too much flak from the general populace. Has he been hypocritical? Yes as is every other human being I have ever met including myself. This decision was a bitch. But in a sense it was almost an agreement. Carol didnt resist much and I think she is some what scared of herself now too. Sure the ZPAW brought out a stronger person but now that her inner switch has flipped, I think she fears she cant control it. And that is probably why she left without much of a fight. She has kind of outgrown that group. I dont hate Carol at all. Again I am partial to the original group. The media I have read have lesbians and womens rights die hards ready to kill Rick. But Rick is the man. He is the guy that the people want to lead. Even during his voluntary step down of power and farming adventure the group was still approaching him in hopes that he would return. He isnt perfect but he is the one person I would follow. I would have handled it differently. Probably took her back, and took her in front of Maggie and Hershel and have a sit down chat. I cant see either of those two going ape shit and killing her. But I cant hate the man for it going down the way it did. And heck this has given us some serious material to digest and discuss.

[Legion2213]

Grim episode, this survival existence is grinding people down, changing them (some for the better, others for the worse). All are suffering though. Season 4 is well on it's way to being the best so far for me, I've enjoyed the Hell out of every episode, the interactions between the characters, the situations and the overall tone of the series. Felt really sorry for Carol (even though she couldn't be allowed to just move on from what she did). For what it's worth, I thought exile when I saw Rick loading up the car at the start. Oh, and gutted about the stoner chick, she was cute. Edit: I'm a bit unsure about alcoholic guy now, at first I thought he was up to no good and untrustworthy, now I just think he is genuinely troubled, felt sorry for him succumbing to his weakness and getting busted by Daryl today...sort of pulling for him now, hoping he can come through and settle a bit.

[MoonSylver]

Solid episode. Didn't see Carol's exile coming. Don't necessarily disagree with Rick's decision. But as others pointed out, Backpack guy. (A decision which never, ever, sat right with me). I agree, I also think Carol is covering for the little girl. Thought for sure Daryl was going to drop that guy off the roof after he not only loads up on hooch only (what, you can't carry a bottle of whiskey AND some penicillin doofus?), but then had the nerve to almost draw down on him.

[sandrock74]

I think a part of Rick's decision making process was him considering Daryl's away team might not even make it back. It's a very real possibility that Daryl and/or Tyresse may not be a future factor in anything, since the group could end up as zombie chow. Rick just made a decision based on what he thought would keep everyone else safe. I also like Bob and I hope he can pull himself together. He seems like a normal guy who is just trying to cope with being in this dead world. Here's a random thought/speculation: what if Carol hooks up with a new group somewhere else; there is the spin-off next year that we know about and she would give it a familiar face for viewers....