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Thread: TWD 4x10 "Inmates" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

  1. #61
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    I don't think it can be explained my friend. I accepted michonne's pets when she was first introduced but the immediate transformation of her second set was a tad much to suspend disbelief. The zombie rules of this show can be frustrating at times.
    Yes, if it had spent 1 minute or less showing how/why it would have added a nice bit of depth to the program...
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Yes, if it had spent 1 minute or less showing how/why it would have added a nice bit of depth to the program...
    One minute might not sound like a lot, but in a script and in a final edit of a TV show or movie, one minute is pretty big. The 'hows and whys' of Michonne's pets weren't the purpose and point of 4x09 - the emotional devestation felt by Rick, Carl, and Michonne was the focus (and rightly so).

    The point is made (Michonne needs new pets for camo, she gets them, she heads off, sorted), dwelling on the mechanics would only serve pernickety folks like us, and do absolutely nothing to move the story forward.

    ...

    I seem to recall in the episode that there was a bend in that road - so you can only see so far ... plus, Glenn passes out, Tara has to deal with walkers, so she's not even paying attention to the road (just trying to not get eaten), and also - think about it - she's just been in a battle that featured several explosions nearby. The tank shooting off here and there, but most importantly, the grenade that goes off mere feet from Tara (who was hiding behind the tank, and shielded from the blast) - so her hearing will be all muffled.

    As for 'zombie proof' survivors ... well, shit, if you've got this far into a zombie apocalypse (two years, essentially) then you've been doing something right, so you wouldn't be bumbling around the woods like a complete moron would you?

  3. #63
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    the negatives:

    judith should be dead, count me in as one of those who wishes they'd gone the other way with that plot-line.

    fire should not attract walkers.

    glenn should've been too weak still to push through a crowd of about twenty walkers; healthy, sick, decked out in riot gear or not. dude was a pizza deliver guy, not an nfl lineman.

    abraham looks like a pussy, and the reveal of him and his crew was hokey beyond belief. calling it now, his character will not translate well to the screen.

    the positives:

    they're making it easier and easier to hate the guts out of that little psycho kid, i really hope they kill her off very soon.

    glenn dons the riot gear.

    that's about it, these last two episodes have been rather "meh" in my book. and as for michonne and her decoys, i'd have gladly sacrificed a minute or five of carl's idiotic wanderings and horrid acting for a scene showing those armless and jawless walkers slowly realizing they were about as useless as andrea.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos View Post
    the negatives:

    judith should be dead, count me in as one of those who wishes they'd gone the other way with that plot-line.

    fire should not attract walkers.

    glenn should've been too weak still to push through a crowd of about twenty walkers; healthy, sick, decked out in riot gear or not. dude was a pizza deliver guy, not an nfl lineman.

    abraham looks like a pussy, and the reveal of him and his crew was hokey beyond belief. calling it now, his character will not translate well to the screen.

    the positives:

    they're making it easier and easier to hate the guts out of that little psycho kid, i really hope they kill her off very soon.

    glenn dons the riot gear.

    that's about it, these last two episodes have been rather "meh" in my book. and as for michonne and her decoys, i'd have gladly sacrificed a minute or five of carl's idiotic wanderings and horrid acting for a scene showing those armless and jawless walkers slowly realizing they were about as useless as andrea.
    From the looks of it, you're not really a fan of he show anymore. Shame.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

  5. #65
    Feeding ProfessorChaos's Avatar
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    yeah, it's a love/hate thing but it's definitely shifted much more towards the "hate" side over the last two seasons.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    One minute might not sound like a lot, but in a script and in a final edit of a TV show or movie, one minute is pretty big. The 'hows and whys' of Michonne's pets weren't the purpose and point of 4x09 - the emotional devestation felt by Rick, Carl, and Michonne was the focus (and rightly so).

    The point is made (Michonne needs new pets for camo, she gets them, she heads off, sorted), dwelling on the mechanics would only serve pernickety folks like us, and do absolutely nothing to move the story forward.
    The thing is though, is that the pets thing is COMPLETELY unnecessary and ends up being another example of bad writing.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

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    Regarding lopping off walker jaws and mitts...or "when bad zombies turn good". I really don't like this, walkers/zombies for me will always be "pure motorized instinct".
    Oblivion gallops closer, favoring the spur, sparing the rein - I think we will be gone soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion2213 View Post
    I really don't like this, walkers/zombies for me will always be "pure motorized instinct".
    But then what happens when their ability to carry out that pure motorised instinct is taken away from them? When there's no food nearby, or reason to go investigating a noise or whatever, they just stand around (e.g. the walkers in the shop in 3x01, or in the restaurant in 3x12), so I don't see it as any sort of stretch to imagine them as (relatively) docile when their ability to feed is disabled (but also remember that Michonne's pets started getting excited in 3x03, so she had to cut their heads off ... maybe new fresh meat nearby still gets them going).

  9. #69
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    Here's the thing,
    Taking their cues from Romero, most mythos-creators in the Zombie Genre leave a lot of the nuts and bolts of their zombie phenomena unexplained in a definitive sense, choosing instead to go with the more organic-feeling passing around of possibilities/speculation by the Survivors. That said, whether we see it or not...there IS an objective nuts-and-bolts reasoning that I'd wager most creators of zombie material have in mind.

    Yes, jaw removal and double amputation INSTANTLY rendering Walkers completely docile doesn't make much sense to me. The only reasoning for it that's supported by a (reasonably) sound theory based on Dr. Jenner's briefing on the Walker phenomena is that immediately after the Walker has its jaw/arms removed its very limited neurological activity is essentially "shocked"....and since Walkers only have two modes, Hunting and Standby...what we're initially seeing isn't a Walker that's suddenly become docile per se but rather one that goes inactive as instinct butts up against the impossibility of responding to said instinct.

    I mean we know Walkers have at least a VERY basic "body awareness"....what I mean is that a Walker that's missing its right arm will turn towards a nearby human in an attempt to grasp them with its left hand. Ie: We don't see evidence of "Phantom Limb" phenomena amongst mutilated Walkers. Since on this most basic level the Walkers "understand" that if they don't have a right arm, they can't use their right arm to grasp and hold prey to feed on. The next increment of mutilation would be an armless (or possessing arms too damaged/decomposed to function) Walker still capable of biting. Such a Walker is all about lunging forward, jaws leading. (The closest example of this I could find was during Rick's dash from the tank after speaking to Glenn on the radio. One of the Walkers was a shorter female, sandwiched between two larger Walkers all approaching from Rick's left side, but forced into cramped confines as they negotiate their way between two derelict cars. Though completely out of range, this Walker still thrust its head forward and snapped at Rick as he raced by.)

    Finally, we come to the all-important lower jaw. If a Walker's instinctive "body awareness" functions as we've seen examples of, then the loss of the jaw would...on some very basic level, register for the Walker. Their indifference to non-terminating wounds doesn't contradict this theory because, for example, a bullet striking a Walker in the chest in no way affects its ability to pursue the instinctive feeding drive.
    So, if the loss of its capacity to bite registers....interacting in some way with the feeding drive, it's not completely inexplicable that a Walker would default to "Standby Mode" since its instinct has no physical vehicle to operate through.

    All of this is complete supposition, of a fictional construct no less....but I don't think it's an unreasonable explanation for the docile mutilated Walkers.

    That leaves only the camouflage aspect of the Docile Walkers...which, as many have already opined is probably nothing more than the daisy-chain effect of Walkers taking their cues from the most active Walker they can see. How does a herd end up heading north down the middle of a highway? One Walker on the side of the road saw a northbound car zip by a couple days earlier, so thus stimulated it starts plodding relentlessly after said car. As it passes Walkers in Standby Mode, they are in turn stimulated by the Walker which is pursuing the car in its dim hopeless fashion, and join the northward slog.

    Now just invert the phenomena. A herd drifts into an area following the path of least resistance (like a road)...and comes to a place where several Walkers are in Standby Mode, standing around listlessly. In the absence of stimuli from the survivors concealed in the nearby house, there's nothing to stimulate the herd into moving towards the house. They can't think, but if they could the reasoning would be "If there was anything to eat in that house, those other Walkers would be clawing at the windows and doors to get in." So the herd either drifts right on by without a second glance, or it stops next to the mutilated Walkers and THOSE Walkers go into Standby Mode.

    I can get this far with theory-crafting, but the wheels come off at the point where the presence of mutilated docile Walkers prevents "normal" Walkers from recognizing the human in their midst as food. From a distance, if the human was moving slowly with their tethered docile Walkers I could believe any Walkers seeing them just see another small group of non-food plodding onward. The story has Michonne take things beyond the realm of the believable by walking along in the midst of the herd. There's no comprehensible reason I can find that whatever mechanism makes Walkers attack live prey but not attack each other would stop functioning close-up like that.

    So to summarize: I can buy Walkers becoming docile after precision mutilation. I can buy said Walkers acting as passive camouflage, for a house survivors are in.....and I can even buy a slow-moving human "blending in" with their docile Walkers from the PoV of any other Walkers at some distance. What I CAN'T buy, and have to just suspend my disbelief for is the close-up camouflaging. It doesn't make sense to me why a Walker three feet from a live human would be affected in any way by the presence of mutilated Walkers.

    Actually, here's the best I can do to explain the close-up Walker camouflage: It's the same thing as a Lion not getting up and chasing down a human being who slowly and confidently walks right by it. Or a Great White Shark not going after a diver who faces it head-on in open water instead of fleeing. The target isn't acting like prey, so it isn't perceived as prey. The huge problem with this theory is that human-shaped organisms are not the natural prey of lions and sharks, but ARE the most common prey of Walkers. So this notion I can see people going either way on.


    Just some thoughts from someone with too much time on their hands

  10. #70
    Dead facestabber's Avatar
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    You didn't let me down Wylde. You have some serious posting power. Great points.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post

    They did look a little cosplay, didn't they? It struck me right away. Forgivable, though. Hopefully it will work out in the end and the actors will pull it out.
    Cosplay is a great word for it! That is exactly how it was.

    As for the zombies being loosing their will to eat from being dejawed and disarmed I think its the rule of cool that is in effect here. Michonne looked cool in the comic when she entered the story with zombies in tow and she looked cool in the TV series when she entered the frame there as well. Its just the writers milking the concept, which is a shame imo.

  12. #72
    Just been bitten Morto Vivente's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    So to summarize: I can buy Walkers becoming docile after precision mutilation. I can buy said Walkers acting as passive camouflage, for a house survivors are in.....and I can even buy a slow-moving human "blending in" with their docile Walkers from the PoV of any other Walkers at some distance. What I CAN'T buy, and have to just suspend my disbelief for is the close-up camouflaging. It doesn't make sense to me why a Walker three feet from a live human would be affected in any way by the presence of mutilated Walkers.

    Actually, here's the best I can do to explain the close-up Walker camouflage: It's the same thing as a Lion not getting up and chasing down a human being who slowly and confidently walks right by it. Or a Great White Shark not going after a diver who faces it head-on in open water instead of fleeing. The target isn't acting like prey, so it isn't perceived as prey. The huge problem with this theory is that human-shaped organisms are not the natural prey of lions and sharks, but ARE the most common prey of Walkers. So this notion I can see people going either way on.


    Just some thoughts from someone with too much time on their hands
    Excellent post Wylde. You've clarified the camo' concept for me by leaps and bounds. Using the technique to blend in among a troupe of walkers is still a tough one though, eh?
    Last edited by Morto Vivente; 23-Feb-2014 at 08:03 PM. Reason: correction
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  13. #73
    Just been bitten Buzzbomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottedfreak View Post
    Glenn wasn't on that walkway when it was hit, he likely collapsed there because of fatigue.
    I couldn't work out whether Glenn had been passed out for a while (overnight) or he was there momentarily - the CGI smoke gave me the impression that the blast was recent...

    He looked pretty weak when he got off the bus to go search for Maggie, so either the smoke lasted a long time & he recovered overnight on the walkway... or he recovered in a miraculous short space of time - well enough to charge through a dozen or so walkers.

    I'm looking forward to the next one though - I'd guess there'll be a class reunion of sorts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    ...Killing off a main character should be a big deal, it shouldn't just be killing them off just to kill someone off ...
    It's just comparing how things went down with the farm and the camp outside Atlanta, I'd have expected at least one main character to have been killed, either by the Governor's crew or in a slip up with the walkers - mainly because of the volume of extras' that are deemed to have been killed.

    I'd have been satisfied with one senseless, unforeseen & unpredicable death (without the obligatory episode of character-centric dialog beforehand). For me it would have made it more shocking / horrific / believable.

    For me one of the most powerful things about the original NOTLD is that normal rules of major cast survival are not adhered to.

  14. #74
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzbomb View Post
    For me one of the most powerful things about the original NOTLD is that normal rules of major cast survival are not adhered to.
    Yes, they do feel a little "untouchable" in TWD at the moment!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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  15. #75
    Desiderata Satanicus Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Yes, they do feel a little "untouchable" in TWD at the moment!
    Definately agree and it goes against the grain of the comic series its based on too.. Personally id love to see daryl bite it for this reason alone!

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