TWD 4x16 "A" episode discussion (Season 4 Finale) ... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Trancelikestate]

Has anyone ever seen "The First Power"? It's a Lou Diamond-Philipps flick about a killer who posses people and continues killing. Not all the great but my bro and I loved it as kids. Anyhow, Joe plays the killer Patrick Channing. My bro and I have always liked him and even my bro said "I wish Joe would stick around." Though I knew he wouldn't. Forgive me if that was pointed out. Like JP I've not been reading every thread. Ruthless as Rick may have become he still isn't as ruthless as he needs to be. What I mean by that is after he grabs the kid with Hershel's watch he waits to long to shoot him. I'd give you one chance to answer and when I don't like it... POP! Sure that may have left him a bit exposed but it would show you mean business. Ahhh. Lets all just go on a binder till October haha.

[Moon Knight]

Hi folks first post. I thought it was a satisfying end to series 4 but with one minor issue. I liked the flash backs to happier times at the prison but there was slightly too many for my taste. I loved the part when Rick was spotting belongings from Glen, Maggie and the others in the possession of the Fine Young Cannibals. The whole scene with Joe vs Rick was fantastic and the instant mini-evolution of Rick should give some major forward motion for future episodes and seasons. He knows what type of person he needs to be to keep Carl alive and he isn't afraid to step across boundaries that in series one and two he would have frowned at. I would love to see how he would deal with Randall now. One thing I did notice with this episode is just how much is cut in the UK version. For the first time I watched US pace because I suspected spoilers would be all over social media and I noticed some pretty key parts missing from the UK version that really add to the episode. The walker victim who Carl tried to save had his face removed in the US version which was cut, and there was additional stuff in the Rick vs Hunters scene, particularly the attempted assault on Carl. I just wonder what else has been taken out in four series prior. Welcome aboard. - - - Updated - - - Has anyone ever seen "The First Power"? It's a Lou Diamond-Philipps flick about a killer who posses people and continues killing. Not all the great but my bro and I loved it as kids. Anyhow, Joe plays the killer Patrick Channing. My bro and I have always liked him and even my bro said "I wish Joe would stick around." Though I knew he wouldn't. Forgive me if that was pointed out. Like JP I've not been reading every thread. Ruthless as Rick may have become he still isn't as ruthless as he needs to be. What I mean by that is after he grabs the kid with Hershel's watch he waits to long to shoot him. I'd give you one chance to answer and when I don't like it... POP! Sure that may have left him a bit exposed but it would show you mean business. Ahhh. Lets all just go on a binder till October haha. Yeah, Jeff Kober is great. He really made Joe a great character.

[facestabber]

Has anyone ever seen "The First Power"? It's a Lou Diamond-Philipps flick about a killer who posses people and continues killing. Not all the great but my bro and I loved it as kids. Anyhow, Joe plays the killer Patrick Channing. My bro and I have always liked him and even my bro said "I wish Joe would stick around." Though I knew he wouldn't. Forgive me if that was pointed out. Like JP I've not been reading every thread. Ruthless as Rick may have become he still isn't as ruthless as he needs to be. What I mean by that is after he grabs the kid with Hershel's watch he waits to long to shoot him. I'd give you one chance to answer and when I don't like it... POP! Sure that may have left him a bit exposed but it would show you mean business. Ahhh. Lets all just go on a binder till October haha. Thank god someone knew that movie, "the first power". I couldn't remember the title but that performance by Kober creeped me out. Rick needed to use the guy as cover. I'd assume that's why he didn't shoot right away. Let's face it, if Rick splattered the dudes brain he would have died a half second later.

[AcesandEights]

Has anyone ever seen "The First Power"? It's a Lou Diamond-Philipps... Wow, TLS...you just gave me a free trip back in time for a moment there. I hadn't thought about that film in awhile. I wonder if it's on Netflix. - - - Updated - - - Hi folks first post. Welcome, DotZ! One thing I did notice with this episode is just how much is cut in the UK version. For the first time I watched US pace because I suspected spoilers would be all over social media and I noticed some pretty key parts missing from the UK version that really add to the episode. The walker victim who Carl tried to save had his face removed in the US version which was cut, and there was additional stuff in the Rick vs Hunters scene, particularly the attempted assault on Carl. I just wonder what else has been taken out in four series prior. I was totally unaware of this (or have completely forgotten because I'm getting old). Maybe our UK friends here can clue us in.

[DayoftheZ]

Welcome, DotZ! I was totally unaware of this (or have completely forgotten because I'm getting old). Maybe our UK friends here can clue us in. Thanks to all for the welcome. Aces, I know there were some cuts in the first series but I hadn't kept track of any since. Edit:- I am just watching the repeat now and its on an hour later and all the cut bits are back in it, how bizarre!! I always watch it at nine so wonder if they have cut stuff out before? These are the parts cut from last nights 9pm version. From this episode its quite apparent were the cuts are to me because it feels a little disjointed. For example the stranger getting taken down by walkers had his face pretty graphically removed but in our UK version its cut and Rick, Michonne and Carl look shocked but we didn't really get to see why. The next scene I noticed was when Joe's henchman was inning down Carl he turned him and started taking his own belt off, that was fully cut (now I can live without that if I am honest because its maybe a step too far) but it did leave it a little open to interpretation what the henchman's intentions were. After that there was a couple of seconds cut from Rick revenge attach on said henchman which made Carl's horrified / relieved / grateful look more powerful. I'm sure over the four series there were countless cuts.

[Doc]

as for the episode, i think this would have been a great one to have right before the finale. the finale could have been more action-oriented and shocking by having rick's group finding out beth was being served for dinner, I'm actually very glad that didn't happened! Season 3 had a bunch of telegraphed deaths that this is one aspect of Season 4 that really impressed me. The last two seasons had the shitty habit of killing off any one who gained any ounce of depth and killed them off after five minutes of knowing them. I feared that this would happened to Beth Especially, after having an entire episode dedicated to her in 'Still'. I really thought that it was going to be a prelude to Beth's death, but thankfully the writers of this season have done everything they could to refute all the mishaps of the Mazzara era of Walking Dead.

[MoonSylver]

Yeah, "First Power" one of the things I always think of when I think of Kober, though the guy has played the heavy in a ton of stuff. Oddly enough I had just seen him earlier in the day in the Vin Disel flick "A Man Apart" (& commented on his numerous appearances), when he turned up later in the night for the first time on TWD. That's when I knew we'd see that character again. Shame they didn't keep him around. He would've made a good ongoing heavy. Sort of a more brutal & less refined Governor. I loved the melt down he started having when Darryl "lied"...the guys whole concept of "rules" was facinating in a twisted way.

[facestabber]

Welcome DayoftheZ. This is a great forum with some intelligent minds. Speaking of which where the hell is Wylde?

[AcesandEights]

Speaking of which where the hell is Wylde? Good question....We need some Wyldness in this thread, stat!

[zombieparanoia]

I thought it was a good episode overall, I thought the part where rick snaps was good, that they did recon on terminus was good, the flashbacks were good for exposition. There were only a couple things I didn't like. Why is it that characters in the show always seem to get "shocked" by acts of violence? Carls reaction to Rick saving him from getting ass raped seemed like Loris reaction to Rick saying he killed Shane(because she told him to) I mean, Carl flat out executed a kid not so far back, his dad going crazytown bananapants on a guy trying to rape his son seems pretty justified. So they recon the place but didn't see any gunmen on the roofs but when they get herded out form the courtyard there are at least half a dozen men with guns in place including out by the train yard where they came in and clearly had a view of the roofs from? Where did all the gunmen outside the fence come from? That's where the group came in from and they clearly didn't see anyone out there, not even uber tracker Daryl noticed anyone. When they were getting herded, they kept going "oh, they shut the door, guess we can't go that way now." Why not kick a door in? Or shoot through the door, you know theres someone on the other side.

[Moon Knight]

Carl was almost raped. I think him being in shock is quite justified.

[shootemindehead]

And his dad just ripped some guys throat out... ...with his face. Even I was a bit shocked.

[zombieparanoia]

Ok, if you're saying the shock was from the attempted rape, sure, I can buy that. I thought they were selling more as a reaction to how his dad saved basically everyone. because that to me is ludicrous. "Oh hey, I know those guys were going to rape and murder all of us, but did you have to be so mean?" I just don't buy that. Not in a post apocalyptic world where you've seen and done the things these people have. Not even in the real world. Imagine you're sitting at home, a group of thugs busts in and threatens to rape and kill basically your whole family. Suddenly, your dad proceeds to use swift and blinding violence to stop them. Are you going to not talk to him? Sulk? be all "I can't believe you just did that, that was horrible of you"? Because if you would, maybe you should have just seen how it would have played out with the other guys.

[DayoftheZ]

I just don't buy that. Not in a post apocalyptic world where you've seen and done the things these people have. Not even in the real world. Imagine you're sitting at home, a group of thugs busts in and threatens to rape and kill basically your whole family. Suddenly, your dad proceeds to use swift and blinding violence to stop them. Are you going to not talk to him? Sulk? be all "I can't believe you just did that, that was horrible of you"? Because if you would, maybe you should have just seen how it would have played out with the other guys. I’m not sure it was just shocked, in the comic during the same scene Carl basically had a “you deserved that” look. In this episode Carl looked shocked at first but then I read it as him being glad to see the potential rapist get what he deserved. I thought the expression on his face changed very slightly during the scene. Also if he was just shocked wouldn’t he have turned his face away from what was happening like even Daryl did? Just my take, though maybe I am reading way too much into it!!!

[Neil]

I watched it whilst finishing up cooking, and eating, spinach stuffed chicken breasts and stuff... I enjoyed it, but I'm wondering if it was Beth being offered up for dinner. I still need to rewatch this again tonight, but I'm also going to rewatch last week's. My kid said Carol and Tyreese hadn't made it to Terminus yet, so it's gotta be Beth. Stick a fork in her, she's done... There's lots of other folks being held. You heard them calling from other containers... - - - Updated - - - Thanks to all for the welcome. Aces, I know there were some cuts in the first series but I hadn't kept track of any since. Edit:- I am just watching the repeat now and its on an hour later and all the cut bits are back in it, how bizarre!! I always watch it at nine so wonder if they have cut stuff out before? These are the parts cut from last nights 9pm version. From this episode its quite apparent were the cuts are to me because it feels a little disjointed. For example the stranger getting taken down by walkers had his face pretty graphically removed but in our UK version its cut and Rick, Michonne and Carl look shocked but we didn't really get to see why. The next scene I noticed was when Joe's henchman was inning down Carl he turned him and started taking his own belt off, that was fully cut (now I can live without that if I am honest because its maybe a step too far) but it did leave it a little open to interpretation what the henchman's intentions were. After that there was a couple of seconds cut from Rick revenge attach on said henchman which made Carl's horrified / relieved / grateful look more powerful. I'm sure over the four series there were countless cuts. So the earlier version was cut? OMG that's annoying as that's the one I've been recording/watching!