TWD 5x01 "No Sanctuary" episode discussion (Season 5 Premiere)... **SPOILERS WITHIN**

[Wyldwraith]

My retort: EVERYTHING you've ALL said is completely relevant and accurate, but you're failing to account for two HIGHLY RELEVANT factors: 1) Gareth isn't just organized, he's a PLANNER. Stop and consider the effort in dispersing manpower to DOZENS of railroad crossings, for MILES AND MILES from Terminus. Rick and Co. couldn't DROP RANDALL OFF without it turning into a CLUSTERFUCK! Anyone who has the manpower, resources and necessary transport and equipment to negotiate miles of Walker-infested roads (How ELSE are they going to travel, really? If someone says by train, I will track you down and beat you with the Stupid Stick (tm). ) has the wherewithal to pursue a small group if sufficiently motivated. 2) Most of the liabilities mentioned as making any attack on the Terminians non-feasible at this time would be the SAME LIABILITIES the group would be faced with if found in anything resembling their current condition. After all, if anyone needs a reminder....ONE person with an automatic weapon can obliterate a clustered group of humans before said group has time to cry out, let alone react. I don't think I need a 3) But here goes: Rick and Co. have to SLEEP. Do a Google on unsolved home invasions/homicides. There's one that chills me to the bone. TEN individuals, 4 adults 2 teens 4 children under 12 were slaughtered in a 3-story house WITH AN AXE! The KICKER? Not ONE of the victims showed any evidence whatsoever of even managing to OPEN THEIR EYES before they died. Think about that for a minute. REALLY think about it. Ten axe strokes, in a confined space, resulting in 10 kills and no one so much as managed to MOVE before dying. Not ONE SINGLE CRY. That was ONE *Disorganized Psychopath's handiwork. Bets Mr. I Built a Human Spider-Web AKA Gareth can do better? My 2 cents: (For me, your mileage may, as always, vary): The only thing more dangerous than single-minded cannibalistic corpses are SINGLEMINDED CANNIBALISTIC HUMANS. The one you may have to live with given there's hundreds of millions of them, the other will, if they don't die, be the death of you...eventually. For my money the only safe sociopath is a headshot sociopath. All I'm saying.

[shootemindehead]

Pick them off, wait for the herd to move on, then replenish your stores of ammo with their's? Odds are they got a good bit stockpiled... Rick's group dosen't though and could easilly run out of metal before all of the Termites are dead. Team Rick (© Minionzombie 2014) doesn't know how many Termites there are and could run into some serious bother for the sake of revenge. It would be better to keep going and consolidate your forces and concentrate on gathering more ammo, weapons, supplies and another place to live. *Edit* What Aces said...damn...bloody Aces......... - - - Updated - - - My 2 cents: (For me, your mileage may, as always, vary): The only thing more dangerous than single-minded cannibalistic corpses are SINGLEMINDED CANNIBALISTIC HUMANS. The one you may have to live with given there's hundreds of millions of them, the other will, if they don't die, be the death of you...eventually. For my money the only safe sociopath is a headshot sociopath. All I'm saying. But Rick and Co simply don't have the resources or, more importantly, the information necessary to effectively deal with a group (who are heavilly armed with automatic weapons) that they know virtually nothing about. In fact, I could see you easilly criticising Rick if, indeed, he did lead his (small) group headlong into a battle, where the fog of war is almost complete and which would, inevitably, lead to more deaths among the group. Team Rick is now a group that is (quite probably) outnumbered and definitely outgunned by the Termites and positively outnumbered by the dead that are now running riot in Terminus and who are arbitrary in their attack. While your point about a dead Gareth is valid, it would be absolutely reckless on huge scale for Team Rick to after the Termites. In saying that, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the writers write that way!

[Buzzbomb]

Why didn't Team Rick take the car at the hut? It would have provided some protection for at least some of the group (eg Judith).

[MinionZombie]

My retort: EVERYTHING you've ALL said is completely relevant and accurate, but you're failing to account for two HIGHLY RELEVANT factors: 1) Gareth isn't just organized, he's a PLANNER. Stop and consider the effort in dispersing manpower to DOZENS of railroad crossings, for MILES AND MILES from Terminus. Rick and Co. couldn't DROP RANDALL OFF without it turning into a CLUSTERFUCK! Anyone who has the manpower, resources and necessary transport and equipment to negotiate miles of Walker-infested roads (How ELSE are they going to travel, really? If someone says by train, I will track you down and beat you with the Stupid Stick (tm). ) has the wherewithal to pursue a small group if sufficiently motivated. 2) Most of the liabilities mentioned as making any attack on the Terminians non-feasible at this time would be the SAME LIABILITIES the group would be faced with if found in anything resembling their current condition. After all, if anyone needs a reminder....ONE person with an automatic weapon can obliterate a clustered group of humans before said group has time to cry out, let alone react. To be fair with the Randall situation, that was in the first weeks/couple of months of the outbreak. Everyone was a newbie then. Team Rick are damn-near two years deep now. They're far more organised. The Randall situation was before they were forced off the farm and had to survive on the road for months constantly moving around. Gareth is a planner and his ability to switch off his humanity is terrifying and speaks of his danger. However, it seems as if many of the Termites spent most of their time behind the fences and walls of Terminus - I'd be surprised if any of them had had to survive out in the wild like anyone on Team Rick has had to. Sure, they could get lucky and get the drop on them, but even if sleeping in the open, they'd have two or more guards on watch over everyone. It would be better to keep going and consolidate your forces and concentrate on gathering more ammo, weapons, supplies and another place to live. But Rick and Co simply don't have the resources or, more importantly, the information necessary to effectively deal with a group (who are heavilly armed with automatic weapons) that they know virtually nothing about. While your point about a dead Gareth is valid, it would be absolutely reckless on huge scale for Team Rick to after the Termites. Further to Shoot's comments: Team Rick have a couple of weapons on them, with limited ammo - they were down to wooden shivs and making nails out of ear-rings punched through a belt - they'd have been foolish to run into a walker herd to take on the remaining Termites. They don't know how many there are, how tooled up they are, and by the time they'd gone and got the bag of guns buried in the woods for all they know any remaining Termites would have fled. Now - yes - they could then track them with Daryl's skills, but even just in that time of getting some weapons from the buried bag, their chance of tracking any Termites down could have been lost. Had they gone earlier they could have caught up, but they'd have had no weapons - or knowledge of how tooled-up their enemy is. I'd imagine after fleeing Terminus they'd all be exhausted. I absolutely agree that the Termites need to be snuffed out, but Team Rick were backed into a corner - tired, hungry, thirsty, hard-up for weapons or ammo, and only just reunited - they could just as easily harm themselves in such a weak position as anyone else. They desperately need a base of operations - a stock of supplies, weapons, ammo, shelter - from which to work and then lead a coordinated and thought-out hunt for the remaining Termites. Team Rick (© Minionzombie 2014). Why didn't Team Rick take the car at the hut? It would have provided some protection for at least some of the group (eg Judith). Even if they had, they'd only be able to drive as fast as those on foot could walk. They'd not want to split up. Also, the card would only be able to follow roads/tracks. On foot you can cut through the woods and go anywhere - plus you have no engine noise. Naturally, you could only fit in a few members of the group. Even if stationary you'd not be able to cram everyone in for shelter. It'd be too much hassle and eventually run out of petrol. Now - if they had a base of operations then yes, that car would be useful. Maybe they'll make a note of its location and return for it later?

[MoonSylver]

Team Rick (© Minionzombie 2014)

[Moon Knight]

Does anyone here truly believe Tyreese killed that Termite at the hut? Tyreese seems kinda out of it to me.

[rongravy]

Does anyone here truly believe Tyreese killed that Termite at the hut? Tyreese seems kinda out of it to me. Didn't he say, "I had to." to Carol? I thought that pretty much summed it up to me.

[sandrock74]

Regardless of Rick and the gang not killing all the termites, they have nothing to fear from them for the foreseeable future. Terminus would need to be fixed up BIG TIME if any survivors want to keep living there. They don't know where Rick and crew are, but Rick and crew KNOW where Terminus is! The termites aren't dealing from a strong position now and wouldn't be for a long time to come (which I think the "oldness" of the No Sanctuary sign that we saw Morgan come across would insinuate). By the way, how is no band using the name "Rick and the crew"??

[Wyldwraith]

Re: The Terminians and their experience or lack thereof beyond the walls of Terminus: Again, Gareth & the other Terminians organized and dispersed teams capable of surviving the Walker-infested territories outside Terminus to dozens of railroad crossings, many miles from Terminus. To me, that speaks of proficiency in handling themselves in the "wilds" on at least the part of a % of the Terminians. However, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment: It IS quite possible a significant % of the Terminians who were proficient in the skills necessary to travel through Walker-infested territory died as a result of Carol's attack. My reasoning being that those with said skills were almost certainly the primary defenders versus Walker incursions, and we know that a substantial # of Terminus inhabitants who were acting in the capacity of guards/defenders versus Walkers died due to Carol's attack. Not all, by any means, but PERHAPS enough of the martially-skilled Terminians perished that Gareth doesn't presently have enough of them to divert from protecting his neck and that of the other surviving Terminians. You're right that the Fog of War is a huge liability at the present juncture. However, if one contends that said Fog of War is a critical liability preventing any attack on the Terminians at this juncture, one is by definition supporting the distinct POSSIBILITY that Terminus DOES still have the wherewithal to seek retribution against Rick & Co. All that said, while I've been persuaded there are sound reasons preventing further aggression against Terminus at this juncture, I steadfastly maintain my conviction that Gareth and his ilk will be driven, for various reasons, to seek revenge against Rick & Co. It's a tough situation, no argument. I just can't get the fact that a far smaller, substantially more disorganized group of violently anti-social marauders pursued Rick, Michonne and Carl in what could easily be described as an obsessive manner for Rick killing ONE of their comrades out of my mind. That's the problem with people who've gone feral. They have no higher goals, no intense emotional attachments....nothing in fact but the desire to keep breathing, take whatever they like and do to anyone unfortunate enough to cross their path whatever they like. When you've given up completely on life in favor of simple survival and the fulfillment of your basest urges, there's nothing holding you back from even potentially self-destructive behavior like obsessively pursuing people you perceive as having wronged you....And I contend that at such a level of devolution even the desire for self-preservation begins to break down. And why not? For such people every day is nothing but a repetitive routine of survival, "brightened" only by the intermittent opportunities to tear down and destroy anyone who still has anything to live for. Coming face to face with people still living, not just surviving, may well elicit an unreasoning rage from such feral "people"....Being reminded of what they've given up making them desire to tear down those who remind them of the humanity they've sacrificed...as a sort of coping measure, if nothing else. To say nothing of the sad fact that some people perform evil acts for evil's sake. For spite, if you will. No, I don't envy the survivors their current circumstances. Confronted with the pile of reasons they can't go after the Termites, but filled with the sinking feeling that failing to end them now means they will be confronting them again, and probably not at a time and place of their choosing. - - - Updated - - - Huh, I put a lot of thought into my last response. Would've thought it would elicit at least one response. Ah well I mean, what do you think of my psychological assessment of "feral humans" if nothing else? Could be wrong, but I'd thought that at least would prompt some discussion. Comments?

[MinionZombie]

Interesting thoughts Wyld. Although I would say that, for example, the Termites are very different from the Claimers. The former are, in their own screwed up way, very civilised - they have established their own civilisation with rules and order (as insane as they might be) ... the latter, on the other hand, were a marauding gang of thugs with nothing better to do than roam around and then hunt down Rick. They had nothing else to do and no real allegience to each other apart from strength in numbers ... their brotherhood was tenuous and vague at best. The Termites might be more likely to just think to themselves "let's chalk that one up to experience and go on our own way and not risk our own lives 'cos these Team Rick mofo's a crazy!" ... ... naturally I doubt that'll happen, but it's a possibility if the universe of TWD wasn't a scripted show. If it was real life I think there'd be more chance of people accept defeat in the battle and letting the war slide to save their skin ... there'd still be plenty of chances for the opposite though.

[Legion2213]

Just a random musing...I'm surprised that Rick & Co have never sorted out a "fall back" position, just a house with some food, guns, and survival tools to fall back on if they lost the prison and got scattered (which they eventually did). I remember the same thing happening in the BBC Survivors series, lot's of talk about setting up a rally point with some basic kit to fall back on but they never did it...and they also lost their base of operations and all their supplies at the end of the first season and ended up like Rick and the gang, but in far more brutal British winter conditions. Wonder if the Termites had such a plan? It would make them a genuine danger if 24-48 hours after losing Terminus that they are largely regrouped, warm, fed, patched up and well armed again...

[MoonSylver]

Just a random musing...I'm surprised that Rick & Co have never sorted out a "fall back" position, just a house with some food, guns, and survival tools to fall back on if they lost the prison and got scattered (which they eventually did). I remember the same thing happening in the BBC Survivors series, lot's of talk about setting up a rally point with some basic kit to fall back on but they never did it...and they also lost their base of operations and all their supplies at the end of the first season and ended up like Rick and the gang, but in far more brutal British winter conditions. Wonder if the Termites had such a plan? It would make them a genuine danger if 24-48 hours after losing Terminus that they are largely regrouped, warm, fed, patched up and well armed again... Oof. Ugly thought. Entirely possible too, considering how well organized they were & well thought out their plans were. Seeing as all of this was a "never again!" reaction to their previous plight, it could be entirely possible...

[MinionZombie]

Good musing there, Legion! I think with Team Prison they did actually have a plan, but once the shit hit the fan at the prison it was so chaotic that said plan just went straight out the window. They had their escape bus, but everybody got scattered and only some got on the bus etc - it was all a bit chaotic ... although they could have planned a bit better in some regards, had various 'go bags' or 'go packages' in various parts of the prison for survival purposes. I'd rather spend the time and effort of doing all that and not require it, than get distracted by other tasks and then really need it.

[Buzzbomb]

Apparently this weeks easter egg was the crate from creepshow though it did not look aged enough or have enough blood. It could have looked way better. It might have actually been noticeable then. It appears just before Team Rick free the "we are all the same" guy in the container - thanks for mentioning it! - - - Updated - - - I remember the same thing happening in the BBC Survivors series, lot's of talk about setting up a rally point with some basic kit to fall back on but they never did it...and they also lost their base of operations and all their supplies at the end of the first season and ended up like Rick and the gang, but in far more brutal British winter conditions. The BBC survivors, I think, just headed for Whitecross... and a nice cup of tea, but then not every settlement in that series was a threat to the main group. I like the idea of the Termites having a 'Plan B'... efficiency & progress... and there's bound to be a re-match, otherwise Michone won't get her sword back.

[sandrock74]

I think we're all forgetting one important aspect of all this: how would any surviving termites even track our intrepid crew at this point??