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Thread: TWD 5x02 "Strangers" episode discussion... **SPOILERS WITHIN*

  1. #31
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    The Termites don't seem that well put together. We don't get a really good look at them, but they're BBQ'ing Bob's leg on a bit of scrap metal they found in the woods propped up on some broken bits of wood. They don't seem particularly well put together - they're fairly cast out there, but they must have had a go bag or had the chance to gather a couple of supplies (like Glenn did in season four at the prison) as they were able to amputate Bob's leg and dress it, but beyond that they're probably a bit on the ropes.

    Also, the guy that Tyreese didn't kill was in that cabin - there were probably supplies stashed in those cabins in case someone got surrounded/stranded whilst out on a run.

    As for Tyreese - he struggled with his capacity of violence in the comics, so we're seeing that here. It was interesting to hear what Chad Coleman had to say about the issue on Talking Dead, saying that in a way Tyreese and Carol have swapped traditional gender roles, and that the most noble thing for a man to do is protect a child. In the comics he was capable of great feats of violence, but he was always pushed into it reluctantly, likewise in the show. The man's got some psychological scars from this world and he's dealing with them, trying to find a better way in this world than having to resort to murder - as unlikely/impossible as that may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Knight View Post
    I'm sure Gareth just knows Bob simply by having Bob introduce himself along with the others upon arrival at Terminus.
    Aye, Bob and Gareth talked directly in the first episode in a manner that showed they'd only just met.

    There's no way they know each other. Bob joined Team Prison ages ago and was clearly seen in his flashback intro that he'd just been bumming around on his own drinking cough syrup and generally being miserable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProfessorChaos View Post
    mz: bravo on those memes, brother. some real lols were had on a couple of those.
    Glad you dug 'em.

  2. #32
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesandEights View Post
    Nah, dude. As Shootem alluded, and as those of us who have read this story arc in the comics can tell you, it was all too likely Gareth and company would come back in the picture. But when I post about this stuff it's from the standpoint of what should be done using some real world logic, not TV plot-hammer logic.
    Yep.

    When we're talking about episodes, I think we should put caveats in to say, "well, this is the LOGICAL thing to do"...

    "...and this is what the bleedin writers are going to do."



    Gareth is just too good a villain to waste from a writing perspective, so it was obvious that he wasn't just going to disappear. In reality though, attacking Terminus would have simply been idiotic in real life.

    However, letting Bob-a-job go off on his own was also idiotic. Nobody should be going anywhere alone

    Pity though, I liked Bob.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  3. #33
    Just been bitten DayoftheZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    As for Tyreese - he struggled with his capacity of violence in the comics, so we're seeing that here. It was interesting to hear what Chad Coleman had to say about the issue on Talking Dead, saying that in a way Tyreese and Carol have swapped traditional gender roles, and that the most noble thing for a man to do is protect a child. In the comics he was capable of great feats of violence, but he was always pushed into it reluctantly, likewise in the show. The man's got some psychological scars from this world and he's dealing with them, trying to find a better way in this world than having to resort to murder - as unlikely/impossible as that may be.
    I get that MZ. The problem is that the Termite even went as far as to say “if you don’t kill me I will kill you and the baby.” In the world where the living have proven to be worse than the dead I fail to see how you can choose any other action than killing him right there.

    To me it’s even more alarming that he allowed he friends and sister to hang around outside for a chit chat while the termite was inside and then he give Carol the whole “He’s dead, I did, I could!!” speech.

    I wonder if there will be any comeback later down the line on Tyresse for this either from Team Rick or the Fine Young Cannibals.

  4. #34
    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayoftheZ View Post
    I get that MZ. The problem is that the Termite even went as far as to say “if you don’t kill me I will kill you and the baby.” In the world where the living have proven to be worse than the dead I fail to see how you can choose any other action than killing him right there.

    To me it’s even more alarming that he allowed he friends and sister to hang around outside for a chit chat while the termite was inside and then he give Carol the whole “He’s dead, I did, I could!!” speech.

    I wonder if there will be any comeback later down the line on Tyresse for this either from Team Rick or the Fine Young Cannibals.
    I think once Tyreese finds that guy he's finally gonna snap and lay the hammer down.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

  5. #35
    Twitching sandrock74's Avatar
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    Obviously Tyreese thought he beat the guy to death in the cabin. He was mistaken about it; that's believable enough to me.

  6. #36
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayoftheZ View Post
    I get that MZ. The problem is that the Termite even went as far as to say “if you don’t kill me I will kill you and the baby.” In the world where the living have proven to be worse than the dead I fail to see how you can choose any other action than killing him right there.

    To me it’s even more alarming that he allowed he friends and sister to hang around outside for a chit chat while the termite was inside and then he give Carol the whole “He’s dead, I did, I could!!” speech.

    I wonder if there will be any comeback later down the line on Tyresse for this either from Team Rick or the Fine Young Cannibals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Knight View Post
    I think once Tyreese finds that guy he's finally gonna snap and lay the hammer down.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandrock74 View Post
    Obviously Tyreese thought he beat the guy to death in the cabin. He was mistaken about it; that's believable enough to me.
    Aye, following up on the Tyreese angle, another thing that was interesting to hear Chad Coleman talk about in regards to Tyreese was actually quite a good idea to express - that taking a human life isn't easy, and it shouldn't always be a simple decision even in a deadly scenario such as TWD. Tyreese has killed many walkers, but a fellow human being - good or bad - is an entirely different issue, for him at least (and for others in that world, I'd imagine).

    There'll be people in groups of survivors who have killed walkers, but managed to avoid killing fellow human beings, even at this point nearly two years in. Tyreese is also in shock after "The Grove" - the idea that Lizzie snapped and saw no problem with killing her own sister, and intended to kill Judith (and, presumably, Carol and Tyreese) ... that's a messed up sort of thing to witness and it's going to impact people hard and in different ways. It's clearly had a considerable affect on Carol as well - she was about to run away from the group when Daryl caught up with her and the chase began to find Beth.

    I agree with Moon and Sandrock, Tyreese is going to be pushed into a position that he'll have to kill another human being. This world is going to have to force him, and really, it's impossible for anyone to make a clean run through this kind of scenario. It's impossible to make every right decision - we have the benefit of armchair hindsight - these characters are stuck in terrible conditions and having to make snap judgements much of the time and, yes, perhaps Tyreese believed that he'd killed the guy as he'd beaten him so ruthlessly. Hopefully when we get a good look at him with Gareth & Co he'll be appropriately mashed up.

    Plus, from a writer's perspective, characters sometimes have to make mistakes to tell your story. They must be given secrets and regrets, fears and worries, failings and weaknesses to go along with their strengths. A shifting and unpredictable world like that of TWD is very much push and pull when it comes to the characters inside those confines.

  7. #37
    Dead facestabber's Avatar
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    Considering past practice of desicions coming back to haunt/injure/kill the group, I'd say Tyrese will face a brutal reality due to his inability to finish that guy off. Tyrese is hurting and i can empathize with him to a point. To spare a man who threatened to snap a babies neck, is a giant failure. And I believe Tyrese was aware the guy wasnt dead. Dead is dead and rocket science isnt needed to evaluate that fact. Now i will say that if Tyrese was aware that jerk was a cannibal and would have enjoyed eating Judith, he probably would have killed him. The question will be whether or not Bob's probable death(resulting in Sasha's anguish) will be enough. Or will another member get killed. Maybe Tyrese will meet his own end.
    Last edited by facestabber; 21-Oct-2014 at 06:14 PM. Reason: error

  8. #38
    Twitching
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    We've discussed this particular bit before,
    I'm still firmly in the camp that having otherwise intelligent, experienced protagonists suddenly and inexplicably do something extremely stupid...and then justifying that by saying "It was necessary to advance the story" constitutes lazy writing and little else.

    Do/should characters make mistakes? Absolutely, but they should be mistakes that a) Take into account the skill-sets and experience of the characters involved, and b) The sort of mistake(s) the viewer finds reasonable/"realistic" within the context of the current plotline.

    As I stated above, there were numerous far more believable ways to explain what's happened/is happening than the route the writers chose to take. Again, as I stated above, it would've taken TWO SECONDS to clear up the whole "Was anyone on guard duty?" issue.

    Much more important, however, is how the very sudden return of Gareth and his Hunters is seemingly being accepted as quite plausible by the majority here. Sure, the guy Tyreese failed to kill could've helped Gareth and his people get on Team Rick's trail, yet without some sort of explanation...or at least a few bits of info from which one or more inferences as to how the Hunters managed the ever-so-quick catch up can be drawn from a viewer's perspective, the sudden reappearance of the Hunters feels more than a little contrived.

    I wouldn't be so critical of this if TWD hadn't demonstrated a well-developed capacity for tying up loose ends in a believable way consistently, season in and season out. That said, I'll concede the possibility that I've rushed to judgment, and the writers full-well intend to show us how it all ties together up to now. Time will tell, so perhaps I simply need to reserve judgment a bit longer. As of now, however, I'm still bothered by the apparent ease with which the largest attraction of Walkers to date was bypassed.

    On to other elements however. I agree Bob was bit...that's the only thing that really explains his asking Sasha for just one more kiss, before he suddenly gets up and goes outside to break down. So I'm definitely part of the school of thought that Bob's bite will have ongoing repercussions for the Hunters.

    Here's a theory: Perhaps Bob was at one point a member of Terminus during its phase as a real sanctuary? Because there's that whole "There's some cosmic justice in it being you" comment of Gareth's. Bob didn't do anything to stand out when Team Rick was captured...so what is it Gareth believes Bob's "guilty" of, in order for it to be cosmically just that he's the one they grabbed?

    What if Bob bugged out when the invaders took over Terminus? He was out on some kind of errand that had taken him outside Terminus, as he returns he sees the takeover in progress and takes off, telling himself they're all done for and there's nothing he could have done etc etc. We know that SOMETHING related to the fall of one or both of the groups he was part of previously left him saddled with enough issues to cause him to turn to the bottle. Don't have any facts to substantiate this theory, but I for one very much had the sense that Gareth was referencing something that goes back further than Team Rick's capture.

    As for the cross-marked car Carol and Daryl are pursuing: It's admittedly circumstancial, but leads me to a deep-seated conviction that Father Gabriel is hiding more than a simple wrong he's done to people who are dead now. The theory that his cowardice got his congregation killed, or allowed the food bank to be overrun doesn't explain how an unarmed priest somehow held onto years of consumption worth of canned goods all this time. When people were more plentiful earlier on it just seems like it would have been inevitable some group would've taken what someone so helpless had...however remote his church is. There HAS to be some other factor that either had been at work, or still is at work, that explains how Gabriel has managed to avoid getting his hands at all dirty. That much seems certain.

    As an aside, I was also like "WTF?!?!" when Team Rick climbed down into that putrid stew of decayed Walker-bits and rotted septic tank matter. One papercut and you're hosed. Then again, people will do some very extreme shit to fill their bellies when hungry enough....dunno about this one.

    Lastly, and this is just a completely unsubstantiated hunch: The message "You'll Burn for This" seems to hold more venom directed at Gabriel than could be accounted for by knee-jerk acts of cowardice. Feels more like whoever carved it was blaming/cursing him for something he'd actively done/was doing. Some sort of betrayal that cut the one who carved it DEEPLY. People don't proclaim their certainty you're going to Hell for a mistake or a moment's weakness, however costly to others. Father Gabriel DID something, or was some part of some evil that was perpetrated. That's my sense of it anyways.

  9. #39
    Dead facestabber's Avatar
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    The marks on the trees may be what ties this all together. By the railroad tracks in ep1 and near Gabe's church in ep2. At some point the show will drop a big "ah ha" moment on us. Maybe as a life sparing move for Gabe, he agreed to provide false sancuary to worshipers, who in turn would be turned over to Termites when they were low on 'walk-in' victims.

    And another thought I had that is speculative. Could you imagine societies response if Bob's current fate was Carol or Maggie? Sexism will always exist, both good and bad. In this case the thought of Maggie or Carol as women would elicit a different reaction from myself and most viewers. Dont get me wrong I like Bob alot but what a whopper that would have been.

  10. #40
    Being Attacked RichW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    We've discussed this particular bit before,

    Insert the whole rest of Wylds last comment here - (but I won't .. to keep the thread compact!!

    That's my sense of it anyways.
    Here, here pal, I finally think that someone has seen the same episode as me!!
    (Or maybe interpreted it the same way around!

    Even in the first episode 5-01, MZ, when Gareth first comes into the slaughter troughs,
    he directly addresses Bob. Seems a bit too familiar even when i watched the 5-01 premier.
    The 5-02 Bob-B-Q incident just kind of reaffirmed that ..... seems too sus.
    Bear in mind that i don't read the comics and have no forewarning of impending doom!
    I just purely rely on the 'Gut Instinct' that i see and feel as I watch the show,
    that's also part of what keeps it interesting for me .... have to avoid spoilers like
    a heard of god-mode ultraninja guv'nor phillips though!

    Also, I may very well be completely wrong in which case i'll gladly get me coat
    and eat me hat but if i'm right ... I'm gonna start up a TWD theories thread
    in which everyone has to agree with Wyld & Me ... only j/k, no one would agree
    with me apart from wyld anyway!!

    And the Gabe stuff, he's got to be hiding something threatening, it's being set up
    just surely as Gareth was too big to get rid of instantly (as someone said) Gabes
    shocker is gonna get at least one of em - i'll wager a bit-coin on it.

    Have a good one, Rich

  11. #41
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyldwraith View Post
    As an aside, I was also like "WTF?!?!" when Team Rick climbed down into that putrid stew of decayed Walker-bits and rotted septic tank matter. One papercut and you're hosed. Then again, people will do some very extreme shit to fill their bellies when hungry enough....dunno about this one.
    Agree completely.

    My exact reaction was "Mmmm...hey wait...what? WTF?"

    Again, bad writing to engineer a dramatic scene, which 'The Walking Dead' has been guilty of since it's inception.

    Another WTF was the fact that the could chop off Bobs leg while he was "knocked out". Now, I know this is TV land and all, but getting knocked out by the butt of a gun or whatever, is just not the same as getting an anesthetic to "knock you out" for an operation.

    There is, I'm afraid, a lot of things one has to "Let go" when watching this show.



    Disclaimer: I like the show (terms and conditions apply)
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  12. #42
    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    If I was to sit and nitpick every little thing on the show I wouldn't enjoy it. Sit back and suspend belief for a moment. Enjoy yourselves. I sometimes think Wyld watches the show just so he can find faults and vent on them here.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

  13. #43
    Twitching sandrock74's Avatar
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    I've learned that if I over-nitpick stuff, I won't enjoy it.

  14. #44
    Feeding shootemindehead's Avatar
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    I haven't learned that yet.

    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  15. #45
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    It seems that - with the vast majority of zombie media - that general infection isn't an issue. Now, we did have that case in Season 4A where there was a particular mutation (the bleeding red eyes on some walkers) that then lead to some people becoming infected ... whether it was linked to the walkers specifically, or was some other kind of virus that got out into the world somehow and affected walkers and humans alike we can't be sure of.

    However, generally in zombie media, people don't have to worry about getting blood on them or generally getting mucky. I'd never get in that rank-arse water, but it's an established part of this world that that kind of infection isn't on the cards. Perhaps it's linked to the "everyone's infected" angle (what Jenner told Rick in 1x06), or perhaps it's just something to take out to free up the writers, actors, directors, stunt people, effects people, etc etc etc.

    In one of my scripts - which reworks the zombie idea for more of a 'real world' effect - the issue of infection is the most important. However, it's the sort of thing that you have to stick to on one side or the other: it's either a part of your story's world, or it isn't. It's good that TWD has established it's ground on the matter and is sticking to it (aside from season 4A's specific threat which, I believe, was something ultimately disconnected from the zombie virus itself - even the animals were getting sick from it).

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