Bush Vetoes Stem Cell Bill As Promised.....

[Kaos]

Can you guys discuss this without being assholes? I don't need to be called a dumb ass or a redneck or anthing else being tossed at christians on this thread. Enough with the blanket statements, plenty of non christians are against abortion. I am equally annoyed moderaters are joining in on the name calling. Speaking soley for myself: Since you used the plural of the word "moderator", I presume you mean that I was involved in name calling. First and foremost, you are incorrect. I haven't called anyone anything. Second, to agree that a group is behaving inexplicably against the interest of humanity is an acceptable opinion, and it is not name calling. Third, to deny that a vocal community of conservative Christians is against the research is like saying that radical Islamists do not support terrorism. Keep saying the former and people will look at you like you said the latter. But seeing as you are a Christian, and in all likelihood, not insane, I agree that the rhetoric is getting a tad hot surrounding the religion itself. Please ease up a bit, folks. If you are criticizing a political movement which happens to be composed of Christians, please make sure you are clear it is the political movement you are criticizing.

[HLS]

Well, I am going to make someone mad, so I apologize in advance but i just gotta say it. It is unfair to label this the fault of the christians. Just because Bush vetoes the bill on stem cell research does not mean all christians are against it. There are some die hard radical christians out there granted but not all christians are against stem cell research, I know some non-christians and agnostics that are equally against stem cell research. Not every christian is like Bush. stupid people that make stupid decisions come in all religions.

[Kaos]

Well, I am going to make someone mad, so I apologize in advance but i just gotta say it. It is unfair to label this the fault of the christians. Just because Bush vetoes the bill on stem cell research does not mean all christians are against it. There are some die hard radical christians out there granted but not all christians are against stem cell research, I know some non-christians and agnostics that are equally against stem cell research. Not every christian is like Bush. stupid people that make stupid decisions come in all religions. I most sincerely doubt this post will make anybody mad.

[MinionZombie]

Now, my science is pretty ropey these days (I was educated under the Labour gubment ... i.e. cram a bunch of info for one exam then forget it all afterwards) ... but global warming is because of carbon dioxide right? As in there's too much, it forms a layer around the earth, which stops the heat from the sun escaping after having penetrated our atmosphere. Therefore the earth warms up ... surely the simple solution would be to just whack up a shedload of trees around the globe, which would suck up the CO2 and belch out oxygen...at the very least it'd help a good bit.

[dmbfanintn]

Glad to know I amaze you . I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect. Global warming is IMO part of the natural progression of planetary weather. We've been coming out of an ice age for the last 5,000 years. Humanity as a race grew up in a fall or winter of the planet...now it's high summer. In a few hundred years it may well be approaching fall again. I believe that the human race has contributed minimally to this process. if at all. The world is a big place, and me living in third world conditions or us allowing the rest of the planet's people to tell us how to live isn't going to change that. I have answered you seriously and honestly. Respond as you will. M_ I am not exactly sure what you mean by that last sentence, I read it sarcastically. I don't recall ever being anything more that Serioous and Honest with you either. I see where your coming from on your points, but you really didn't answer the main questions I had: "My reading puts it in the NOT catagory" That was my main point for you Marie, Your reading. As I said before, It all depends on where your get your reading from. The way I interpret your post, is that you do not seek out alternative view points, you have a comfortable source of information that you do not deviate from. Words like this: I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect. Farming People????? WTF That right there is definitley some right wing, Christian (No offense, at least I capitalized it!) rhetoric! Once again: Global Warming IMO The case being made for global warming right now is not made up of Opinion, these are facts! I am rambling now, I guess my question really falls back to this: Do you watch and read news and info sources for many viewpoints and then decide for yourself, or do you stick strictly to the sources that only support and promote your idea of the truth. (Everyone can't be right ya know)

[p2501]

For all Pro-Choicers.....instead of arguing drive by your nearest pro-choice clinic and tell the volunteers working there - (The ones who guard incoming patients.) - that they're doing an awesome job. It definitely makes more sense and a bigger impact to offer praise than to argue a point. We'll never change each other's minds and the volunteers appreciate it very much. agreed. and while your there, drop them some cash. PP centers are nearly always underfunded.

[Marie]

Do you watch and read news and info sources for many viewpoints and then decide for yourself, or do you stick strictly to the sources that only support and promote your idea of the truth. (Everyone can't be right ya know) Yes, I get my information from various sources. And like anyone else, I filter it through my mind and therefore put my own slant on it unless the conclusion is inescapable. You do this too. Everyone does. The fact remains that NO particular benifit has yet arisen from fetal stem cell research. Certainly none that canot be duplicated from willingly donated adult stem cells or umbilical stem cells. If it had then private companies would be standing in line to do it and reap the rewards... instead of whining to the rest of us to finance it. M_

[coma]

The 26 stem cell lines already being researched are contaminated And 26 lines are hradly representitive of billions. Also Those 6 day old embryos will be destroyed wheteher they are used for researched or not. They are "backups" for in vitro fertilization. They are NOT available for adoption, unless they are specifically allowed to be by the donor. They are hardly ever authorized to be donated. Usually, once a woman gets a succesful pregancy, they dump the extra embryos. Bush and his cronys lied. They know they lied. If anyone did even 2 minutes of research they would find the truth. I watched the beginning of that speech, turned off the TV, then 20 minutes later turned it on and he was saying the exact same thing. . If it had then private companies would be standing in line to do it and reap the rewards... instead of whining to the rest of us to finance it. M_ Fact is, it IS being researched by private companies. Problem is PATENTS and corporate secrecy. The govt is "open source". NO Patents, TM or (C). All the info is free amd open. So noone can be resrticted from benefiting. The US has been the leading light of scientific research. But not any more. It was also the leading funder and most of the advanced have been from projects funded by the govt. I for one think having to suffer thorogh a disease because of a powerful but extremly small minority that is uninformed, and trying to force an unrelated matter under the element of Abortion is repugnant. Bush Quoted the "Right to life, liberty, persuit of happimess" bit but said only the Life part. Just code for the wacko section of his base. There are NO FACTS to the anitistem cell argument. Only ideology forcing itself selfishly on another issue in the hopes of furthering the Anti choice agenda. Its selfish and amoral and a big fat glass of Kool Aid. They dont care about life, just being "right" and winning. Dont believe the hype

[Danny]

Now, my science is pretty ropey these days (I was educated under the Labour gubment ... i.e. cram a bunch of info for one exam then forget it all afterwards) ... but global warming is because of carbon dioxide right? As in there's too much, it forms a layer around the earth, which stops the heat from the sun escaping after having penetrated our atmosphere. Therefore the earth warms up ... surely the simple solution would be to just whack up a shedload of trees around the globe, which would suck up the CO2 and belch out oxygen...at the very least it'd help a good bit. it wouldnt work were making more and more veryday and chinas setting up all those coal factorys, america will never get rid of fossil fuels till they literally have ...and us brits are just too lazy in our comfort zone to do owt and the trees couldnt produce and intake fast enough. i earnt that g.c.s.e in science!

[MinionZombie]

But if you literally put up f*cking LOADS of trees all over the world it'd do a lot of good, not solve it, but do a lot of good. Also, it's a bit retarded the gubment moaning and whinging at us everyday joes, taxing us for it when really they should be targetting major corporations that do at least 50% of it on their own. Also, things like trucks and busses need to be turned into hybrids. If we had a working rail network we could ship a lot of stuff cross-country and then use hybird trucks for short distances to various destinations for the products shipped en mass by rail. We should also start recycling (I don't trust our gubments when they say we are, did you see that Dispatches on Channel 4?) rather than sticking sorted trash into landfills still. It's all mouth and no trousers this anti-global-warming movement, all thanks to pricks like Bush and Blair ... and people should in theory fart less, that doesn't help the atmosphere. In fact, the methane given off by a single cow in a day is worse than the emissions from a Land Rover during a week - FACT. Or we could just fly to an ice planet and cut out a HOOGE slab of ice and drop it in our oceans, a la Futurama.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

So, I was reading this article and this stuck out: Nightlight, which has received more than $800,000 in grants from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to promote embryo adoptions, is one of only a few agencies that treat embryos exactly like infants. So...we can't use tax payer's cash to fund stem cell research, but we can use it to fund a f*cking embryo adoption agency (which, by the way, only 128 out of 400,00 have actually been adopted)? I get this odd feeling that once a serious medical breakthrough is accomplished through the privately funded embryonic stem cell research (and I have no doubt that it's just a matter of time), it's going to be saving a hell of a lot more lives than 128 out of 400,000.

[AcesandEights]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted.

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted. Sure got a point there. *sigh*

[coma]

Mmmm, I bet $800,000 could have done a lot for getting actual orphans that were already living, breathing & birthed adopted. But there's no ideological benefit in that.

[MinionZombie]

I get this odd feeling that once a serious medical breakthrough is accomplished through the privately funded embryonic stem cell research Damn straight. Many big breakthroughs come from people working independently, or against the system (or without their knowledge/permission). Fact is gubment folk aren't visionaries, but the folks prodding these embryos are those visionaries. It's like in most walks of life, it's always some guy tinkering in his shed or a few dedicated souls coming up with something new that cause the biggest ripples - not ALL the time, but quite a chunk of it at least.