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Thread: So UK folks... BREXIT?

  1. #1
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    So UK folks... BREXIT?

    You voting IN or OUT?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Oh dear ... politics on HPOTD ... I'm getting flashbacks.

    The 'Brexit' campaign has struck me as exactly the same as the SNP during the Scottish Independence Referendum. Lots of "ach, yeah, pfft, it'll be fine and we'll get to do whatever we want immediately".

    The likes of Boris Johnson are just thinking about their careers and No. 10. Whatever happens they'll be perfectly fine, so it doesn't impact on them.

    The media has been utterly pathetic during this whole thing. Focusing on "blue on blue" for soap opera style reporting to pad out their relentless 24/7 schedule, rather than hard facts - and the likes of Sky News (doing their damnedest to make Fox News look like a paragon of reasonableness) have the cheek to ponder why the public feel they're not getting enough facts and properly researched debate! The newspapers have been at it, too - shamelessly pushing an agenda to the nth degree - the lack of self-awareness and brutal honesty is staggering!

    ...

    This was an interesting read:
    EU referendum: British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows

    According to Ipsos MORI, British people think far more EU citizens live in the UK than actually do

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7074311.html
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 11-Jun-2016 at 05:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Feeding Tricky's Avatar
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    I'm voting leave, I've personally watched as the EU destroyed the farming and fishing industries and communities local to me (not helped by the Labour government who caved to all their demands over the years and signed the Lisbon treaty, which I read and found very distasteful) as well as all the other ridiculous EU laws that the UK follows to the letter. It's not even about migration for me although that is an issue. I'm not against migration to the UK but only if it is sensible, i.e. we let people in who have specific skills to offer or a job already lined up when they get here, like Brits have to before any other country around the world accepts them on a permanent basis, and that they don't have criminal convictions and can prove who they are. It's hard to have that debate with the left wingers though without being shouted down and called racist.
    I'm also a serving soldier so I am quite patriotic and don't want to serve in an EU army if Britain votes to stay, I'll leave the army if that happens.
    I love visiting Europe and I like the people in every European country I've visited, but I'm against the idea of the empire building of the EU organisation and the fact that we don't get to vote for any of the powers or positions within the EU government barring MEP's (who are essentially the pawns on the EU chessboard).

  4. #4
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Found this rather funny and well argued:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgKHSNqxa8

  5. #5
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Oh dear!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Honestly? I'm pretty worried right now.

    What's going to happen with Scotland? They voted to remain. Are they going to have a second Independence Referendum?

    What's going to happen with Ireland? Indeed - what's going to happen to the United Kingdom?

    What's going to happen with Gibraltar, and other parts of our nation in far flung places that are contested?

    About the best we can hope for is that it won't be as bad as we fear (although how the exchanges rates and stocks are thundering downwards just gives me a horrible sinking feeling) ... but you can be sure the candy land that the Leave campaign were promising won't be forthcoming. That £350 million thing is already falling apart quicker than a fart in a tornado.

    All this "this is our Independance Day" gubbins getting shouted out there too - tying in with the new film coming out - by the likes of Boris ... they seem to have missed the part in the backstory of the film about the entire globe putting their differences aside to work together rather than split apart.

    Do/did I have problems with the EU? Undoubtedly, and part of the cause of this Vote to Leave has been down to how the EU has acted over certain things, but all forms of government in all corners of the world have problems. No form of government, at any level, of any size, is perfect and without problems.

    There's a push towards the extremes of politics happening across the globe - and to be quite frank it fucking terrifies me. Look at Trump in America, selling a feeling and feeding on hate and fear and anger. Look at how here in the UK the Labour Party have consistently received less votes the further left they've moved - heading into the extremes of their party. I fear the same thing will happen with the Conservative Party, and we'll end up with two bloody extremes, with deafening silence in the centre ground - which is where most people are catered for most reasonably for most of the time.

    We so desperately need the middle ground, nationally and globally.
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 24-Jun-2016 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    I saw yesterday they predicted only half a million would vote on this referendum but today it's said thirty million did.

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    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rottedfreak View Post
    I saw yesterday they predicted only half a million would vote on this referendum but today it's said thirty million did.
    Yeah, actually something like 33.5 million people.

    And there's multiple reasons why this whole thing has been, and will be, a complete and utter shit show.
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 24-Jun-2016 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #9
    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Well, from the EU comments I've seen, they actually seem to be quite pragmatic about it, as if setting up new trade deals is fine and will be along the lines of what is already done (eg: With Norway). So can only hope we will not be made an example of!

    As the day has gone on, I've got more +ve about the outcome...
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  10. #10
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    As the day's gone on, the more stunned I've become.

    I dearly hope that all the experts - whom the likes of Gove and Boris dismissed as irrelevant (!!!) - can come together and work their socks off to soften the blow and work something out. But this shouldn't have had to be the case. Negative consequences are coming, and have already started (currency down, stocks down, credit rating down, we're losing our Prime Minister, Calais are kicking up a fuss about the border, turmoil in the EU, a nation divided, etc etc etc). Even Cornwall's getting pissy - it seems, having voted out, they now want the UK tax payer to foot the £60 million they used to get from the EU!

    Any good work done to steady the ship will all be desperately done in spite of the vote.

    I've already seen a bunch of Tweets from 'out' voters who are now "regretting" their decision and would now vote to remain if they could! Well, it's a bit bloody late now, isn't it?!

    The state of the campaign was atrocious, and the media coverage was the epitomie of sodding useless and outright false.

    I will also say that part of the reason we've ended up here is the EU itself. Despite all the good that it has done, it's also done plenty of bad things - and acted on numerous occasions with displays of sheer arrogance. Had they not done that, and listened more, been more generous towards Britain, they wouldn't be suffering this headache now. Several other countries are now having rumblings about their membership - we're now the fart in the EU lift.

    I also think - why on earth couldn't Cameron's renegotiation have been implemented first (all that work is now rendered pointless by Brexit), and then we could have lived with it for a spell, and then had the referendum. As it was, the renegotiation aspect seems to have had zero impact on the campaign and the debate itself. But I would also say, it would have further helped if the EU hadn't been so stingy and resistant to reasonable changes.

    So there's a vast multitude of reasons why we are where we are, and why this entire thing is a colossal bugger up.
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 25-Jun-2016 at 01:55 PM.

  11. #11
    Chasing Prey shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    I've already seen a bunch of Tweets from 'out' voters who are now "regretting" their decision and would now vote to remain if they could! Well, it's a bit bloody late now, isn't it?!
    Bound to happen when people are voting on something they haven't a clue about really. The biggest "out" argument I kept hearing was about immigration, which is a concern, of course. But the bigger picture is...well...bigger. If voters are voting "out" simply on an immigration platform, it's like joining the first two dots and not bothering with the 20 other that make up the final picture.

    Listening to the likes of duplicitous swine like Farage, etc, is going to lead people in the wrong direction. If the average Joe thinks he has their best interest at heart, they are sorely mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    The state of the campaign was atrocious, and the media coverage was the epitomie of sodding useless and outright false.
    Both sides, from what I can gather, were pretty dreadful. Nearly every debate ended up as "immigration vs it'll be bad". The only clear problem I could take away, is that the trade tariffs that Britain is exempt from now, will apply and the flow of EU money inwards will end. The debates on 'Question Time' were probably the most coherent and even they were a very poor attempt.

    One could be forgiven if they come away with the impression the either side wants to stay or go...just because...

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    I will also say that part of the reason we've ended up here is the EU itself. Despite all the good that it has done, it's also done plenty of bad things - and acted on numerous occasions with displays of sheer arrogance. Had they not done that, and listened more, been more generous towards Britain, they wouldn't be suffering this headache now. Several other countries are now having rumblings about their membership - we're now the fart in the EU lift.

    I also think - why on earth couldn't Cameron's renegotiation have been implemented first (all that work is now rendered pointless by Brexit), and then we could have lived with it for a spell, and then had the referendum. As it was, the renegotiation aspect seems to have had zero impact on the campaign and the debate itself. But I would also say, it would have further helped if the EU hadn't been so stingy and resistant to reasonable changes.

    So there's a vast multitude of reasons why we are where we are, and why this entire thing is a colossal bugger up.
    I used to believe that the Eu was a sound concept and it still is one, I voted for Maastricht. But, like most initially good concepts, it has been buggered by vested interests who are using the concept to their own nefarious ends. I think the EU has largely been hijacked by globalists with a neo-lib agenda, whereby the stick is used to "encourage", rather than proper negotiation to the public's benefit. Plus, there's a very disturbing "loan shark" mentality to those at the top of the EU these days, that sees entire nations hocked into debt, because it serves those at the top.

    However, the EU has also been a very convenient whipping boy for the governments of the member states. They seem to blame the EU on a whole host of things that they themselves are responsible for. Take Greece, for example, who found themselves in the most appalling of circumstances. This was due to successive right wing governments borrowing stupid amounts of money and spending it like there was no tomorrow, because they believed that they could suck off the EU tit forever. Then the left wing get in of the back of that shambles, promise to leave the EU, but turn around and borrow more!

    In addition, I don't like the way treaties are ratified in the EU. Currently, I believe that Ireland is the only member state that gets their people to vote on constitutional changes, while in other states, it's a government responsibility. This to me goes against the most basic of democratic fundamentals. Although, allowing the population to vote on EU referenda doesn't ensure the democratic process. The Irish had to vote again after they delivered a "no" vote on the Lisbon Treaty in 2008. Hardly what one would call democracy at its finest. However, that was the Irish governments (Fianna Fail) sole fault and not that of the EU. The Irish Govt. could have and should have abided by what the people voted for.

    As it stands, I am in two minds about the EU. The trade concept is sound, but we already had that with the EEC in the 70's. However, it's the rules of the game that are the most concerning to ordinary people. From stupid things like not being able to import cans of spray paint, to disturbing things like the lack of real democratic focus on who is running the show, who they are making policy for and who is voting on it.

    Part of me says stay in and make the changes and the other part says, fuck it, it's done.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  12. #12
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Well, Scotland wants to remain in the EU. Personally, I think that the biggest change this will bring about is the disolution of the UK rather than the UK leaving the EU.
    Personally, I'm not a fan of the EU in it's current state. But I think it's kinda ironic that a lot of people voted to leave because they figured that the UK doesn't need the EU and that it'll get along just fine without it - but the consequence they probably didn't foresee is that Scotland will probably cause the end of the UK.
    Last edited by EvilNed; 25-Jun-2016 at 04:34 PM. Reason: dsaasd

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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    And the body count from Brexit is: a few bruises and deaths related to natural causes and unrelated crime but it it set to rise.
    DAMN YOU BREXIT!!!!

  14. #14
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    And the dumbest thing about this whole debacle is: by voting leave, Britain has created a whole raft of problems that now need solving (to which nobody really knows the answer), when we've got plenty of other shit to be getting on with!

    And all this wrestling around and negotiating - and where will we end up? Probably in a very similar position to where we already were, in terms of a deal, except with less control, less say, and probably just as much immigration as before. What a stupid bloody thing this is!!!

    Currency shafted, stocks and shares shafted, the likes of RBS had to cease trading to stop a catastrophe (remember that a huge chunk of tax payer money is still invested in RBS after the 2008 crash!!!), Calais kicking off about the border, Her Majesty's Opposition (the Labour Party) in an extraordinary shambles (a strong opposition begets a strong government), lazy-bones-greedy-chops Boris as the frontrunner for the new Prime Minister (what the actual f*ck?!?!?!), and with the stocks and shares affected that in-turn negatively affects pensions (oh, the irony, for the pensioners who voted Leave!) ... the list goes on and on ... talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

    "Short term pain for long term gain"? It's looking far more like "long term pain for short term what-the-f*ck-was-the-point-of-that?!"

    It's like an episode of Game of Thrones ... only real.

    The gargantuan amount of hard work that'll have to be done to sort out this total mess (a mess that could have been entirely avoided!) doesn't bare thinking about - and all the while every other problem facing our nation goes ignored!

  15. #15
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/SkyData/status/746700869656256512

    The young are to blame. Fucking slacktivists.

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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