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Thread: Blade Runner 2049 - first trailer released...

  1. #31
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've watched Beyond Thunderdome twice and didn't think much of it either time until the final act chase. There were pieces of it that I rather liked, but overall there was an awful lot of "eh?!" going on in that movie.

    The original two are both good flicks, the second besting the first. Subtlety and "realism" has never been how I'd define any of the Mad Max movies (Road Warrior, Beyond Thunderdome, and Fury Road especially). It's high octane stuff.

    I also liked how, in Fury Road, they paid so much attention to creativity in the apocalypse. Just because it's the end of the world, doesn't mean you can make things beautiful in your own image - i.e. the stunning vehicles. There's no telly to watch, no Internet left to fondle yourself over, so what else are you going to do with your time?

    Miller's always shifted from one thing to another, so he's never really been 'pinned down' to a genre. Romero, Carpenter, and Argento are all closely linked with horror (and the sub-genre of giallo flicks for Argento), so in that regard it's easier to fall into the trap of not living up to your heyday. If, however, you've always moved the goal posts and been lucky enough to experiment in different genres and styles (such as Miller and Scott have been able to), then your output is probably going to have a better chance of holding up in your twilight years.

    It's a damn shame that Romero hasn't been able to get funding for non-zombie projects going. The 90s really messed with his career. That said, I think "Land of the Dead" is a damn solid flick and sits comfortably beside 'the holy three'. Diary on the other hand, just doesn't work overall. He's trying, but it feels like a movie where he doesn't quite know which way to go with it (and that cringe-inducing voice over!). "Survival" was one I liked much more than Diary, but objectively it's a long way from Romero's heyday. Argento's work since the 90s has been iffy at best - although there was a brief spark with "Sleepless" - and similarly it feels as if Carpenter has struggled since "Vampires".

    Anyway, where were we? Oh yeah - Blade Runner 2049!

  2. #32
    Chasing Prey shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Come on, the Gibson-less film was just too "cartoonish", too unrealistic, too exaggerated...The earlier films you could still believe.
    Yeh, I'd agree with this largely. But, I still liked 'Mad Max: Fury Road'. Sure, the budget constraints worked in favour of 'Mad Max 2' and 'Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome' in that they had to be fairly realistic as to what they could put on the screen. 'Mad Max' never feels as if it's part of a post apocalyptic world, it could just be another day in the Outback, so I don't really count that. But, the small oil refinery camp feels real in the second film. As does Bartertown in the third. The punky aesthetics of the people in the films feels right too, for the time it was made. 'Mad Max: Fury Road', on the other hand, has very much run down a more fantasy road, as it were, and it's budget, conversely, works against it, in that it allowed imaginations run into silliness, with robot arms and the likes.

    Still though, for what it is, 'Mad Max: Fury Road' is great entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    It's a damn shame that Romero hasn't been able to get funding for non-zombie projects going. The 90s really messed with his career. That said, I think "Land of the Dead" is a damn solid flick and sits comfortably beside 'the holy three'. Diary on the other hand, just doesn't work overall. He's trying, but it feels like a movie where he doesn't quite know which way to go with it (and that cringe-inducing voice over!). "Survival" was one I liked much more than Diary, but objectively it's a long way from Romero's heyday. Argento's work since the 90s has been iffy at best - although there was a brief spark with "Sleepless" - and similarly it feels as if Carpenter has struggled since "Vampires".
    Romero's non zombie work isn't very good though. 'Martin' aside, there's not much to get that worked up about really, so it's no wonder that funding was hard to come by. In fact, if it wasn't for his beloved zombies, nobody would know the name George Romero. He has an awful lot to thank them for.

    Why, though, he decided to reboot his zombie universe in the naughties is beyond me. A low budget continuation of his saga should have been the follow up to 'Land of the Dead', which I agree is a decent film, despite its flaws. I tried to make excuses for 'Diary of the Dead', but have given up those types of pursuits as I got older and wiser. If something is shite, I just have to be honest and say so. 'Survival of the Dead' was simply awful, right from the get go. I didn't even bother trying to fool myself with that one.

    Argento, I've always felt was quite overrated among genre fans. He has some good genre pictures that appeal to people who grew up with a taste for such stuff in the 70's and 80's, when extreme cinema was a thing to seek out. So, excuses could be made for the obvious shortcomings that were present in his films. Out of everything he's done, 'Deep Red' and remains his zenith and he won't ever topple that. But, I'd go further back than the 90's and say his quality of output is largely poor from 'Tenebre' onward. I think 'Sleepless' showed that it's possible for him to grab some of that magic back. But, objectively speaking, his output isn't that great.

    Carpenter is really the most tragic of the three. He has produced some of the greatest classics that I have on my shelf. I'll always check out a Carpenter film, but his best is behind him. Waaaay behind him. It's difficult to understand, though, just how someone who could make 'The Thing' could also make 'Escape from L.A.'. Obviously, film making is a collaborative process, but Carpenter's stamp on his earlier output is front and centre. But if the 90's messed with Romero's career, it absolutely scuppered Carpenter's, who actually managed to make a few big films in that decade. But for about 12 years the man couldn't put a foot wrong IMHO. Even the lesser TV stuff like 'Someone is Watching Me' or 'Elvis' was watchable, as was 'Starman', even though that was a bit of a WTF. Stuff I didn't like at first, like 'Big Trouble in Little China' or 'They Live' grew on me in a spectacular way in later years. Then we get to the 90's and it's nosedive after nosedive, with a brief resurgence with 'In the Mouth of Madness'. I'll even admit to sort of liking 'The Ward' and hold out for Carpenter to make a come back in a real way. But, alas, I think that's never going to happen.

    In the end, I think these guys rode a crest of a wave. They broke ground with their films, but that ground is commonplace now. Extreme scenes in cinema are two a penny these days, so going out of one's way to sit down in front of a Romero zombie gore fest doesn't have the same umph it once had and his zombie world is on tele each week in 'The Walking Dead'. Argento's offbeat charm just doesn't work any more and his old films work best as a curio these days, while his new films are just bad. And Carpenter feels like he's a director in search of a project that's worthy of his attention. Out of the three, it's John Carpenter I have the most faith in to produce one last hurrah. All of them are getting on now, so if they're going to do something, they need to do it fast.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    Yeh, I'd agree with this largely. But, I still liked 'Mad Max: Fury Road'. Sure, the budget constraints worked in favour of 'Mad Max 2' and 'Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome' in that they had to be fairly realistic as to what they could put on the screen. 'Mad Max' never feels as if it's part of a post apocalyptic world, it could just be another day in the Outback, so I don't really count that.
    I think a lot of people misunderstand the first Mad Max film. The war that devastated society as we know it had still not happened in the first film. Sure, there already were outlaw gangs causing a lot of trouble, but still not like we see in the second movie, where nothing even remotely resembling a centralized government with law enforcement agencies trying to keep order was around any longer. The first Mad Max film was about the still existing law of a centralized government trying to keep the outlaw gangs in check. In the second one there is no longer any "law" around anywhere but the law of the strongest.

    Romero's non zombie work isn't very good though. 'Martin' aside, there's not much to get that worked up about really, so it's no wonder that funding was hard to come by. In fact, if it wasn't for his beloved zombies, nobody would know the name George Romero. He has an awful lot to thank them for.
    Another exception are the Creepshow films, which I consider among Romero's good films (he did not direct the second one, but he wrote it.) The Tales from the Darkside TV show also had good episodes. The movie (which I also liked) based on his show was not directed or produced by Romero, so it does not count.
    Last edited by JDP; 1 Week Ago at 01:36 PM. Reason: ;

  4. #34
    Chasing Prey shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I think a lot of people misunderstand the first Mad Max film. The war that devastated society as we know it had still not happened in the first film. Sure, there already were outlaw gangs causing a lot of trouble, but still not like we see in the second movie, where nothing even remotely resembling a centralized government with law enforcement agencies trying to keep order was around any longer. The first Mad Max film was about the still existing law of a centralized government trying to keep the outlaw gangs in check. In the second one there is no longer any "law" around anywhere but the law of the strongest.
    Oh I understand it alright, I just don't particularly like it or place it with the others. It's too homely in comparison and I'm not sure Miller knew what he really wanted it to be. Also, even at 90 mins it feels long.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Another exception are the Creepshow films, which I consider among Romero's good films (he did not direct the second one, but he wrote it.) The Tales from the Darkside TV show also had good episodes. The movie (which I also liked) based on his show was not directed or produced by Romero, so it does not count.
    Never really liked 'Creepshow'. It's ok, but far too goofy for me (which the comic was at times, I know). That part with King is just cringeworthy though. Probably, the last story is the best, from what I can remember. It's been a while since I've seen it.

    Speaking of 'Creepshow 2', there's a great story in that one - the best from any 'Creepshow' - called 'The Raft'. Thought that was great.
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  5. #35
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Personally, plot wise, I like the timeframe of Mad Max 1 above that of Road Warrior. The reason is pretty simple; It's more interesting to see society decay than it is to see it already gone. The first topic is rarely explored in films. The second one is explored all the time...

    As for Argento I agree that anything post-Opera isn't really that good at all. But prior to that he made some great films. Just look at Suspiria. Nobody ever made a movie like that.

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

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  6. #36
    Chasing Prey shootemindehead's Avatar
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    The problem for me though, is that there isn't enough budget there to really show a decaying society. It just looks like Outback life in the 70's. Christ, there are some places like those shown in the film still going today in rural Australia. Take a drive around White cliffs and you could be in a Mad Max film.

    As for 'Suspiria', yeh I'd count it as good. but, the actual story is dross and some parts are laughable poor. Again though, it's more of an interesting curio nowadays, than anything else.

    Anyway...


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  7. #37
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    The Crazies, Martin, Creepshow, Knightriders - all non-zombie and all top stuff from Romero.

    Argento - you might see his films as just 'curios' now, but they have decidedly earned their place in cinema history. He was never that fussed about plot, but the same can be said of the vast majority of Italian genre film in the 70s and 80s. He was more interested in other things like his infamous set pieces (e.g. the epic camera move in Tenebrae), the mood, the mise-en-scene, and creating a sort of dream world (Inferno is particularly structured like that). I'd agree with Ned, Terror at the Opera was his last great film. He dwindled during the 90s, briefly sparked back into some of his old magic with Sleepless, then slumped back down again.

    Carpenter's "The Ward" ... I saw it, but can only remember that Amber Heard runs about in a psycho ward during the 1960s/70s. Forgot everything else. I recall thinking it had potential that it never really lived up to. Shame, really. Good to see JC finding other creative outputs in his twilight years (e.g. his music), though.

  8. #38
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post

    As for 'Suspiria', yeh I'd count it as good. but, the actual story is dross and some parts are laughable poor. Again though, it's more of an interesting curio nowadays, than anything else.
    Having recently rewatched it I have to say I wholly disagree. It's definetly one of the all time greats and absolute curveballs in the history of horror cinema. It's definetly as much of a influential piece of work as something like Nosferatu was back in the day. In Suspiria, all the elements come to a perfect blend into what can be best described as a surrealistic nightmare. An audiovisual treat.
    Last edited by EvilNed; 1 Week Ago at 02:13 PM. Reason: dassadfa

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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