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Thread: Terminator 2 (film) - 3D

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Nanotechnology works on the atomic or subatomic level. It absolutely can do what the android in the second movie does!

    It's a sci-fi film about a self-aware AI that can calculate things at an unprecedented speed at which we can only imagine and speculate. There's no way you can say "this is unrealistic within this timeframe" because an AI could develop ideas at a speed much faster than ours. Much, much faster.
    Just because nanotechnology manipulates tiny things does not mean that it can actually perform miracles. Building a machine that is capable of doing what we saw that android do is practically impossible. Nanotechnology or not. Also, the time-frame that terminator came from could not have been so advanced as to be able to produce such a thing. Despite their self-awareness and capability to further develop our technology, the machines of those times still had not even been able to solve the "human problem". They were in the midst of a war with us that they were in fact starting to lose. They even resorted to the very ancient practice of slavery, for crying out loud! Needless to say they had no capability to have made anything remotely like the liquid android we saw in the second movie. Like Shootem said, I can believe in the T-800; not so the T-1000. We have machines even in our current times that are starting to gradually resemble more and more the T-800. There is nothing remotely like the T-1000.

    There is a great scene in the first Terminator movie that "subliminally" touches on this subject: when the "defleshed" T-800 endoskeleton enters the late 20th century factory and intently looks at all the robotic arms and automated computer-controlled machines operating. Sort of like a "hello grandpa/grandma!" moment! What a great sci-fi flick the first Terminator movie was, it even had a very interesting "social commentary" to make. It's like the Dawn of the Dead of the machines-gone-bad movies. The second Terminator movie was just an entertaining action romp, but not as good and well-thought-out as the first one.
    Last edited by JDP; 05-Jul-2017 at 07:14 PM. Reason: ;

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    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    I have to question people's reluctance to accept nano technology which appears to be liquid metal, while embracing time travel, which furthermore will send flesh but not metal?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I have to question people's reluctance to accept nano technology which appears to be liquid metal, while embracing time travel, which furthermore will send flesh but not metal?
    Time-travel is theoretically possible, but admittedly extremely difficult to try to achieve. But the first movie did a great job of being vague about how the time-travel worked. Our only source of information about the future are Kyle and the Terminator, and this last one is obviously not going to be cooperative with 20th century humans at all, so we cannot expect anything positive from it. So that only leaves Kyle as our only possible source of information, and he very clearly admits his ignorance of this subject ("I didn't build the fucking thing!") Even at that the first movie was very clever. We cannot demand too much in this department. We have to be content with Kyle's self-admitted ignorance of the topic. We just can't tell how the machines were able to accomplish time-travel. But the liquid android that can retain all its crucial component parts intact despite all the bizarre shape-changes (it can even perfectly imitate a flat floor!), including its data-banks, memory, circuitry, CPU, etc.??? Come on! This thing, even if we admitted its remote possibility via nanotechnology or whatever, would be light years ahead in robotics & computer technology to anything us or the machines ever had. The machines apparently went from building the very realistic and possible T-800, and the other machines we see in Kyle's glimpses of the future, directly to something that has hardly any resemblance to any technology that we have. Did they learn this from aliens??? Quite unlikely, since Kyle does not know about any such third group of "players" in that future drama he comes from. It is only us vs. the machines. And the machines obviously got their technology from us, they just kept on pushing it forward.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Just because nanotechnology manipulates tiny things does not mean that it can actually perform miracles.
    Nobody mentioned anything about miracles. The technology displays in T2 is within perfectly reasonable parameters for what a self-aware AI could develop within what would seem to us like a very short amount of time. And nanotechnology, the technology of rearranging atoms and particles on a subatomic level, could absolutely perform the feats displayed in the second film. There's nothing unreasonable about it.

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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    The T-800 endoskeleton in the factory in the first film was looking around the factory because Kyle had turned on all the machines to confuse the T-800's various censors and whatnot (to cover his and Sarah's movements).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    I have to question people's reluctance to accept nano technology which appears to be liquid metal, while embracing time travel, which furthermore will send flesh but not metal?
    It all comes down to what the viewer is willing to buy into. That's the case with all fantasy films. For instance, I can buy into the "fact" that the dead can come back to life and want to feast on the living in Romero's films. However, I absolutely draw the line at them having the ability to run the 100 yard dash in under a minute, al la 'Dawn of the Dead' 2004.

    As I said earlier, a film or story can go too far and destroy it's own reality. For me, JDP and many others, the "liquid robot" of 'Terminator 2' just goes too far.

    Incidentally, T2 breaks its own universe rules too, in the fact that Robert Patrick's liquid robot wouldn't be able to be transported because it has no flesh.

    At the end of the day, for me - and I've this before - 'Terminator 2' is just the younger, louder, brother of your mate 'The Terminator'. Voluminous, brash and while being entertaining at first, quickly grows to irritate you, while reminding you why you prefer the company of his more intelligent older brother.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

  7. #22
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    Hmm. Interesting. I've never ever heard anyone not buying into the Liquid nanorobot of T2. It's within the realm of possibilities, so I don't know why it's a problem...

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    The T-800 endoskeleton in the factory in the first film was looking around the factory because Kyle had turned on all the machines to confuse the T-800's various censors and whatnot (to cover his and Sarah's movements).
    Yes, but look at the way the Terminator looks at his "ancestors" at work. Then he moves on to continue looking for his prey. Kyle's tactic did not work, BTW. He found them all the same, noise or no noise, activity or no activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    Nobody mentioned anything about miracles. The technology displays in T2 is within perfectly reasonable parameters for what a self-aware AI could develop within what would seem to us like a very short amount of time. And nanotechnology, the technology of rearranging atoms and particles on a subatomic level, could absolutely perform the feats displayed in the second film. There's nothing unreasonable about it.
    Nanotechnology can't do what that liquid terminator did, like becoming thin and flat as the floor and then somehow magically manage to morph back as it was before, no loss of any of its memory, circuitry and AI capabilities during all these bizarre transformations. This goes beyond the realm of science fiction and into pure fantasy. And even if we admitted such things were possible, we would be talking about a whole different fanciful technology here that seemingly popped out of nowhere, nothing remotely like the one in the future we saw in Kyle's reminiscences in the first movie, where the machines we saw look like the natural, logical progression of our own robotics and computers, not something radically different from them.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Nanotechnology can't do what that liquid terminator did, like becoming thin and flat as the floor and then somehow magically manage to morph back as it was before, no loss of any of its memory, circuitry and AI capabilities during all these bizarre transformations. This goes beyond the realm of science fiction and into pure fantasy. And even if we admitted such things were possible, we would be talking about a whole different fanciful technology here that seemingly popped out of nowhere, nothing remotely like the one in the future we saw in Kyle's reminiscences in the first movie, where the machines we saw look like the natural, logical progression of our own robotics and computers, not something radically different from them.
    This is simply not true. A memory is not even today a physical thing. Memory can be stored virtually, which means that a morphing shape could derive it's memory from a personal cloud. As for circuitry or calculating power, again this would not be a hindrance to a nanotechnological being seeing as it works on a subatomic level and anything that's just a milimeter high (or thin) would be enough for it to store loads of information.

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Yes, but look at the way the Terminator looks at his "ancestors" at work. Then he moves on to continue looking for his prey. Kyle's tactic did not work, BTW. He found them all the same, noise or no noise, activity or no activity.
    It blatantly slowed him down. The T-800 was always gonna get him (otherwise you've got no third act show down) - there's limited floor space to explore, for one thing. The T-800 would have just found them quicker without the interference. You can read the "ancestors" thing into it if you like, but really the T-800 is doing a visual scan of the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    This is simply not true. A memory is not even today a physical thing. Memory can be stored virtually, which means that a morphing shape could derive it's memory from a personal cloud. As for circuitry or calculating power, again this would not be a hindrance to a nanotechnological being seeing as it works on a subatomic level and anything that's just a milimeter high (or thin) would be enough for it to store loads of information.
    There is no such thing as a memory that is not stored physically somewhere. You are talking about "miracles" here, nothing to do with computers as we know them and understand them. And this liquid "miracle" in fact happens to have traveled back in time, so it would have no access to any "personal cloud" located somewhere else to retrieve any information whenever it needed it. Very much like the realistic and quite possible T-800, it has to have brought with it everything necessary for its functioning, since once it's back in time it is totally cut-off from the future it came from and is 100% on its own from now on.

    Plus on top of all that has been already pointed out, the purely fantastic liquid android can also take all kinds of punishment with virtually no damage at all. Even a high explosive charge going off in the midst of its mass does not affect this thing! Pure fantasy, plain and simple. This thing defies all kinds of logic and common sense, unlike the T-800. Anyone who cannot see what is plainly wrong with this picture must obviously have a very unrealistic view of what robots and computers can and cannot actually do. There are limitations to all fields. They are not exceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    It blatantly slowed him down. The T-800 was always gonna get him (otherwise you've got no third act show down) - there's limited floor space to explore, for one thing. The T-800 would have just found them quicker without the interference. You can read the "ancestors" thing into it if you like, but really the T-800 is doing a visual scan of the area.
    There is a good reason why the filmmaker chose an automated complex factory, showing robotic arms and computer controlled machinery, instead of a more conventional factory with less complex machinery, which would have served the same purpose if merely a simple distraction was meant in this scene and nothing else implied. I cannot help you if you cannot see how obvious the message is when the Terminator intently looks at all these complex electronic machines operating. Obviously a coming face-to-face with its remote predecessors, our own current technology that was responsible for eventually spawning the very future computer-controlled machines that will attempt to exterminate us. It is not that difficult to see it.

    Plus Kyle's tactic was hardly effective. It did not stop the Terminator from eventually finding them. All the noises and activity did not fool it. Any seeming delay in finding them was more due to how big and full of places to hide the factory is than the activity really distracting the Terminator much.
    Last edited by JDP; 06-Jul-2017 at 06:38 PM. Reason: ;

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    There is no such thing as a memory that is not stored physically somewhere.
    Absolutely, but the amount of physical space needed would be miniscule. Nanotechnology Miniscule. A reasonable assumption would be that any memory is stored on it's own network, not necessarily hooked up to anything else. There's iphone gadgets that can project their own network these days. The same goes for all other aspects of the T1000...

    Silly argument really.

    "I worked in a factory owned by Germans, at coal pits owned by Frenchmen, and at a chemical plant owned by Belgians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most work for the least money that kept me alive. So I became a Communist." - Ники́та Серге́евич Хрущёв

    "Thanks for Playa Girón. Before the invasion, the revolution was weak. Now it's stronger than ever". - Che Guevara

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    It is not that difficult to see it.

    Plus Kyle's tactic was hardly effective. It did not stop the Terminator from eventually finding them. All the noises and activity did not fool it. Any seeming delay in finding them was more due to how big and full of places to hide the factory is than the activity really distracting the Terminator much.
    1) I can see it, but I'm talking literally about the T-800. The T-800 isn't in that moment actually thinking "gosh, look at my ancestors" - it's thinking "where is my objective?" - that's the point I'm making, not disagreeing with JC's filmmaker intentions for the scene.

    2) As I said in my previous post it was never going to stop the T-800 from finding them because you wouldn't have your third act showdown, but it did slow it down. Similarly, the pipe bomb didn't stop the T-800, but it sure as shit made it less effective in achieving it's mission and gave Sarah a fighting chance.

  14. #29
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    Well saw this last night. Nice to see the cinema almost full too!

    I have to say I was surprised how well the 3D conversion worked! It's amazing tech and most of the time it looked great.

    That said, for some reason there's was obvious overscan. ie: What was shown on our cinema screen was a crop of the overall image, so at times you lost stuff that you should have been seeing. eg: There's a close up of a video screen showing "John Conner" and you see "ohn Conner"...

    Not sure if this was down to the 3D processing, a choice recrop the film for better effect, or very unlikely an issue at our screen.


    The film has clearly aged, and you can feel its 25yrs old at times, but christ so much of it is so well written and filmed, it's hard not to be impressed overall at the film!

    And the effects and stunt work is all the more impressive for the meagre use of CGI.

    note1: I think the classic couple of shots where you can see its a stuntman rather than Arni (eg: on the bike) have been addressed, as I was looking out for them, and couldn't see them!

    note2: Surprisingly, given 'note1' the truck jumping off the bridge resulting in wheels pointing in different directions, and then a second later, looking perfect, wasn't addressed
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    I saw an interview with Cameron and he said he fixed the glass falling out of the truck's window frame (as it appears in-place in the next shot). Interesting that he didn't fix the wheels. Although, to be fair, if I've ever noticed those continuity hiccups before I mustn't have been that fussed.

    Maybe the slight re-cropping is so you can have some movement with the layers of the film without it looking weird at the edge of frame in order for the 3-D to work. That said, I really don't like any kind of cropping of a feature film's image.

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