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Thread: TWD 8x08 "How It's Gotta Be" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

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    TWD 8x08 "How It's Gotta Be" episode discussion... **SPOILERS*

    Please keep all talk of episode 8x08 "How It's Gotta Be" specifically inside this thread.

    If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

    Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

    Enjoy!


    Directed by: Michael E. Satrazemis
    Written by: David Leslie Johnson & Angela Kang

    Every story and battle from the first half of the season comes crashing together in this action-packed, emotional Mid-Season finale.
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 12-Dec-2017 at 12:39 PM.

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    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Extra long episode is it not?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Extra long episode is it not?
    Aye, a "90 minute" episode, as they say on Talking Dead etc ... of course, that's including adverts. So it's more like 65 minutes of actual telly. Still, though, looking forward to it. They're touting some 'big event' this episode (character death, a twist?), so we'll see, eh? Hopefully it lives up to the (albeit moderate) hype. *starts biting nails, seeks to evade spoilers*
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 09-Dec-2017 at 04:57 PM.

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    Twitching Moon Knight's Avatar
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    I really hope they end the war now but I doubt it.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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    Chasing Prey shootemindehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Aye, a "90 minute" episode, as they say on Talking Dead etc ... of course, that's including adverts. So it's more like 65 minutes of actual telly.
    Jesus, I don't know how anybody can watch anything like that.
    I'm runnin' this monkey farm now Frankenstein.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Knight View Post
    I really hope they end the war now but I doubt it.
    I'd be a smidge surprised if it ended already. There's not really been enough of the Saviours out there battling yet - so unless 8x08 is filled with that then I'd imagine the climax of AOW would go into the next half-season and then we'd get to see what comes after as the main crux of 8B.

    Quote Originally Posted by shootemindehead View Post
    Jesus, I don't know how anybody can watch anything like that.
    The volume (and frequency) and ads in America boggles my mind. Three ad slots inside a half hour programme like Impractical Jokers, meanwhile here in the UK - one - although ours are longer, so at least you can make a drink or have a slash during them, and you get a good chunk of programming under your belt before the next one. It does mean, though, that the placement of ads on British TV in American shows is all out-of-step with the peaks & troughs of how US shows are written, which is annoying.

    But yeah, I'd go barmy watching anything live over there. They should shake up how they do ads - fewer breaks that run a bit longer - and mercifully we have a law in the UK limiting the number of ads inside any given time slot. We've also got very strict rules about advertising during a programme, so product placement (e.g. food stuffs seen on shelves or on the breakfast table in soap operas or 'continuing dramas' as they're now called, where it can be prominent but also makes sense in the context) can be put in, but we don't have those dreadful banner ads consuming the bottom third of the screen during the actual bloody show you're watching!!! How those are even legal in the US is beyond me. They're so grotesque and distracting.

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    Twitching Moon Knight's Avatar
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    Netflix and HBO has spoiled me. Commercials really ruin the format and story structure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Would be really nice if it wraps up midway through 8B. I’m just really tired of this Saviors story and don’t want another day stretched across an entire half. Not that I’m not enjoying it but it’s been since 6B. Time for a change.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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    Wish US had strict laws about ads. The volume kills the vibe and flow. I have a feeling tonight will be dark which I'm hopeful. Last thing I want are ads about pills which may cause explosive diarrhea breaking up pivotal moments.

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    Yeah, the commercial breaks are absolutely RIDICULOUS here in the US. I've been glancing at the clock during TWD, and many times there have been 5 minutes, and a few times it seems even less, of actual show and then 2 or 3 minutes of commercials.

    I was watching another show one day and was already annoyed by all the commercials. The current break ended, an the show came back on. About 15 seconds later, an icon advertising Pizza Hut or some shit came on over the show. I literally yelled out loud, "Really, you guys aren't making enough fucking money from commercials that you have to advertise DURING the show?" Grrrrr.

    And don't even get me started on how they make some older TV shows COMPLETELY unwatchable by speeding them up so they can cram another commercial or two in the time slot. As one person on another forum said "The Waltons end up looking more like The Keystone Cops." Ugh.
    Last edited by beat_truck; 10-Dec-2017 at 09:12 PM. Reason: added something

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    Quote Originally Posted by beat_truck View Post
    Yeah, the commercial breaks are absolutely RIDICULOUS here in the US. I've been glancing at the clock during TWD, and many times there have been 5 minutes, and a few times it seems even less, of actual show and then 2 or 3 minutes of commercials.

    I was watching another show one day and was already annoyed by all the commercials. The current break ended, an the show came back on. About 15 seconds later, an icon advertising Pizza Hut or some shit came on over the show. I literally yelled out loud, "Really, you guys aren't making enough fucking money from commercials that you have to advertise DURING the show?" Grrrrr.

    And don't even get me started on how they make some older TV shows COMPLETELY unwatchable by speeding them up so they can cram another commercial or two in the time slot. As one person on another forum said "The Waltons end up looking more like The Keystone Cops." Ugh.
    Many channels also cut substantial portions of older shows and movies so that they can cram more commercials. They also often start the next show/movie while the credits of the one that is ending are still rolling on the screen! To these TV executives time is literally money. They will try to cram as much commercials as possible, even if it means having to sacrifice some of the content of the very shows/movies they are showing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Many channels also cut substantial portions of older shows and movies so that they can cram more commercials. They also often start the next show/movie while the credits of the one that is ending are still rolling on the screen! To these TV executives time is literally money. They will try to cram as much commercials as possible, even if it means having to sacrifice some of the content of the very shows/movies they are showing.
    I always knew movies were chopped for time (and content) obviously because it was stated before they aired them. I didn't realize that TV shows were sometimes cut down until years ago when I used to watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. It aired on TNN for a while and when they stopped, CMT started running it. When episodes came on CMT that I had already seen, I kept thinking to myself, Hmmm I don't remember seeing that part before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beat_truck View Post
    I always knew movies were chopped for time (and content) obviously because it was stated before they aired them. I didn't realize that TV shows were sometimes cut down until years ago when I used to watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. It aired on TNN for a while and when they stopped, CMT started running it. When episodes came on CMT that I had already seen, I kept thinking to myself, Hmmm I don't remember seeing that part before.
    Yes, they do that to a lot of the older TV shows. I watched many of these shows, like The Dukes of Hazzard and Three's Company, back when they were new and I can easily tell that some of the scenes have been cut in these more recent reruns. This is obviously done to cram more commercials.
    Last edited by JDP; 11-Dec-2017 at 02:12 AM. Reason: ;

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    Guess Chandlers move to LA was for a reason. Haha. Kudos to him because he did a great job tonight. That episode was tense. Seeing Rick and Michonnes reaction was a horrible gut punch. So much for the comics huh.

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    The core of TWD, both comics and series, has always been about Rick and Carl. Fangirl delight Daryl is still alive but they're taking out Carl? Stupid.

    I'd already been losing interest in the series, this surely isn't going to help that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by facestabber View Post
    Guess Chandlers move to LA was for a reason. Haha. Kudos to him because he did a great job tonight. That episode was tense. Seeing Rick and Michonnes reaction was a horrible gut punch. So much for the comics huh.
    Well, they promised a big event - and they delivered - a bit of a twist that one! Judith died in the comics, Carl lived on - now on the show it's been flipped. There were rumours going around that he'd been killed off the show because he'd finally got a hair cut, but there had been many such rumours for a few seasons now, so it wasn't a sure thing (they could have written in a hair cut to the show) ... but, well, this time the rumour was right. Farewell Carl ... I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this one as it's a major departure from the comics (and another Season 1 O.G. cast member being bumped off the show), mainly because the comics have, for me, at their heart been a story about a father shepherding his child (Carl) through the zombie apocalypse during the boy's formative years ... I guess with Riggs growing up so much we've already seen a lot of that stuff happen (Carl handling the evacuation plan of Alexandria while the likes of Michonne stood paralysed in fear was mightily impressive) ... but I suppose it'll make a lot of sense for reasons.

    Considering the scene earlier in the episode where Carl and Rick talk about the guy in the woods - where Carl fights for something more, something better than just slaughtering everyone, thinking beyond All Out War - I think it'll play a major role in Rick's approach and add some necessary gravitas and reasoning to his decisions over the next chunk of episodes (perhaps beyond that, even).

    I guess now we know what the context of those 'Rick looking rather strung out' shots in 8x01 were about - I imagine that is, in the order of the narrative, the morning after discovering Carl has been bitten or after Carl has died. We're still yet to see him die, of course.

    ...

    Some good stuff in this episode - they addressed the bugger up of the dump truck incident, although I think they would have still been in a better place without that. The Saviours alluded to Eugene helping them out (a new truck with music blaring from it, as we heard in the Simon/Maggie scene), but would they have come up with that plan (or been able to execute it) if the walker herd had still been surrounding the Sanctuary? Hmmm...

    Good to see the Saviours unleashed a bit - great stuff with Negan and Carl (the heart-to-heart stuff was genuinely beginning to cut through to Negan - who, as we learned, had a history of working with kids pre-ZA), and the Rick/Negan scene was generally good (I know that the "JUST KILL NEGAN!" rabble will continue to whine and piss and moan - well, tough ). Neither of these men is going to go out like a flacid loser, so strap in.

    The bombing of Alexandria was quite something - it'll be interesting to see how they handle that from a production standpoint in the next half (seeing as that area is actually residential with real families living in some of those buildings during production). Visual effects and choice angles/framing will help.

    Suffice it to say, we've certainly got a hook to pull us into 8B. The loss of Carl is going to have a major impact on Rick and Michonne (of course), but it's going to have a major impact on the other regulars who have known him for so long (Maggie, Daryl, etc). It's a major character killed off - proving that they still can and will make those choices - but it's good to use such moments wisely and rarely for maximum impact. Now we just need to build up some other supporting players so their deaths (should they occur) come with more impact.

    One gripe - Edith shooting the grandma lady from Oceanside - felt a bit iffy the way she shot so readily, especially as they were there specifically to wait for the Oceanside crew. I imagine it must be something to do with the actress who played that part. Was she not available any more? Was it a different person filling in? Was the face different in that one shot we saw of her lying dead on the ground? I'm assuming she's dead, of course, and not just badly injured ... so maybe I'm way off and didn't read it quite right - thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by beat_truck View Post
    And don't even get me started on how they make some older TV shows COMPLETELY unwatchable by speeding them up so they can cram another commercial or two in the time slot. As one person on another forum said "The Waltons end up looking more like The Keystone Cops." Ugh.
    Eh?! Speeding them up?! I'm stunned that they're even allowed to do that. Here in the UK we sometimes get the credits sped up (or trimmed considerable) for feature films (so you get the big credits, the cast list, and then the logos and MPAA number etc at the very end) - you know, truncated like - or the entire credits reel airs but at a sped-up rate (sometimes quite noticeable, occasionally ramping up as footage is still playing in the fade out moments) ... but never during the actual body of the show or film!

    Quote Originally Posted by beat_truck View Post
    I always knew movies were chopped for time (and content) obviously because it was stated before they aired them. I didn't realize that TV shows were sometimes cut down until years ago when I used to watch reruns of The Dukes of Hazzard. It aired on TNN for a while and when they stopped, CMT started running it. When episodes came on CMT that I had already seen, I kept thinking to myself, Hmmm I don't remember seeing that part before.
    I recall there being some films that were show in the late 1990s here in the UK, on ITV if I remember correctly, that were show inside two hour time slots (9pm to 11pm) - and ITV has adverts (unlike the BBC) - and many of the films they were showing ran longer than the available time for programming within that slot (the rest taken up with the legal maximum of advertisements), or indeed, the films were sometimes one which ran over two hours in themselves. So what they did was literally cut entire chunks out of films. I particularly remember Last Action Hero having numerous scenes slashed out of it and I didn't quite realise it at the time but was aware something was wrong - the scene where Robert Patrick makes a T-1000 cameo? Gone. The bit were Arnie looks at a T-2 cardboard display but Stallone is in his place? Gone. Various other scenes were excised or trimmed. That happened for all the films they showed in that 'season' of films in that time slot - but I never saw that happen again.

    The main issue with missing stuff on TV over here comes to censorship of swearing or violence or sexual violence. It's much rarer now than it was back in the day (e.g. T2 had all the F-words and various snippets of violence trimmed out of it when it aired in the 1990s - the biker on the hot stove, for instance, or the knife slamming into another biker's shoulder as another example, rendering "pull it out" utterly baffling to the audience), but it depends on the watershed and when things air usually. Now they're better about finding the right slot and even right channel to air various films ... my one remaining peeve, though, is cropping the aspect ratio of 2.35:1 films down to 16x9 so it fills the average person's telly. It ruins the look of the film and winds me up something awful!

    Anyway - U.S. commercials - the volume and frequency, by the sounds of it, would drive me absolutely apoplectic with frustration!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bassman View Post
    The core of TWD, both comics and series, has always been about Rick and Carl. Fangirl delight Daryl is still alive but they're taking out Carl? Stupid.

    I'd already been losing interest in the series, this surely isn't going to help that...
    While I agree with you on the Rick/Carl dynamic being at the core of the comics, and being pleased that Daryl lives to fight another day, I think Carl's death will be put to use in future episodes as a key event which will help define the steps taken by the communities in the wake of All Out War. Such a major departure won't have been taken lightly and I have a feeling it's got some real purpose behind it. Much of Carl's growth into a good young man has been completed in the show, making him basically on-par or entirely level with his comic book counterpart (whose transformation took longer - the kid was even younger at the start, too).
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 11-Dec-2017 at 01:57 PM.

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