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Thread: TWD 8x10 "The Lost and the Plunderers" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

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    TWD 8x10 "The Lost and the Plunderers" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**

    Please keep all talk of episode 8x10 "The Lost and the Plunderers" specifically inside this thread.

    If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

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    Enjoy!


    Directed by: David Boyd
    Written by: Angela Kang & Channing Powell & Corey Reed

    Groups unite their forces and converge on the Hilltop. Meanwhile, Aaron and Enid search for allies. Simon takes matters into his own hands.


    Might we get to see some more hints of Simon's 'backsliding' as Negan referenced in 8A?
    Last edited by MinionZombie; 07-Mar-2018 at 05:54 PM.

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    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Oh God. Please talk not like odd because no society simply for one year?
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    Oh God. Please talk not like odd because no society simply for one year?
    Says the guy who wrote that sentence.

    The idea of 'efficient speaking' isn't so bad in and of itself, but the execution of it is definitely irritating. I've said it several times before, but the Heapters are way too 'Beyond Thunderdome'. They wouldn't fit into the tone established in Season 1. All this nude art class nonsense, it's too random and silly. The other communities make total sense, but the Heapsters are like they've been plucked from some B-Movie from the 1980s. If they're gonna stick around I'd really like them to be normalised ... or have them all wiped out, preferably. I wouldn't mourn the total annihilation of the Heapsters to be honest.

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    I wouldn't miss them if they get wiped out, either. When they show up, I wouln't be surprised if someone could actually hear my eyes rolling from across the room. Why do they make them talk like the Indians in a BAD B movie Western?

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    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    I like Jadis!

    This one will be interesting.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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    It looks like the weird way of talking of the Garbage gang was all an act. After the massacre Jadis spoke in a normal way.

    Also, why did Simon let Jadis live? His group massacred everyone except her. Wouldn't this be a potential "leak"? If she makes it out of the dump, Negan is going to find out what happened. Not good for Simon. He disobeyed orders.

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    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    I’m gonna guess this ain’t the first time Simon disobeyed Negan. Looks like Simon was backsliding again.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, wasn’t a fan of the Heapsters but I really like Jadis. After this episode I like her even more. I think for me it’s the actress. She has this certain quirk that works for me. The others came off as too cheesy; happy they are gone.

    Negan was a straight savage over the walkie. Looks like Shane was right all along?

    My only real dislike was Aaron and Enid’s storyline. Let’s be real, we know where it’s going and it’s gonna take the whole half to get there as usual.

    Zombie Meat Grinder gets a thumbs up from me.
    Last edited by Moon Knight; 05-Mar-2018 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Remorse
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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    I've been rather ambivalent-to-sick with the Heapsters in general - so I was glad to see Simon massacre them all, muahahahaaaaa ... although I did feel sorry for them as a group in a way simply because both Rick and Negan were considering them as merely a commodity and a tool for power, not as people. Then again, act like an arsehole, get treated like an arsehole.

    As for Jadis - yes, Pollyanna McIntosh is a good performer - my main issue was the interminable way the heapters talked. I was so glad to hear her talking normally in this episode as she sat there on top of the heap, stripped of all her artifice, the ruins of her hubris milling about beneath her. Speaking of which - walker meat grinder was awesome. Good to see the gore getting cranked back up recently! Awesome bit of stuff there and good to see Nicotero and Co are still finding stunning ways to off walkers.

    Well, I guess we can figure that the helicopter we saw a few episodes ago was from the Heapster's hangout, then? Simon mentioned solar panels and the helipad, but also seemed to suggest that there was something else to the place ... hmmm.

    I'm half-wondering something about Jadis...
    COMICS SPOILERS & THEORY FOR FUTURE EPISODES:
     

    I'm wondering if Jadis will go off into the wilderness alone and - assuming we get a significant time jump (e.g. 2, 3, or even 4 years) - become Alpha. Some folks theorised that the Heapsters would become the Whisperers, but I never bought that. However, might Jadis become the leader of a new curious gang of rogues? If she does I dearly hope they sell us viewers The Whisperers in a far more convincing (and less Thunderdomey) way than they did with the Heapsters.


    Cracking episode, I think - the walkie talkie chat between Rick and Negan was interesting. Negan was genuinely gutted that Carl was dead (linking back to Negan's past in some form of working with children), and there was some genuine remorse that he shared with Rick, but obviously things turned sour. I'd have to rewatch it, but I wonder if it was Rick's anger that reignited Negan's fighting spirit - which resulted in the tongue-lashing he dished out to Rick. Interesting that Rick read Carl's letter to Negan, but he hasn't yet read the letter that Carl wrote to Rick.

    JDP - I don't think it matters if Simon left Jadis alive or not. The very fact that he killed more than one single Heapster alone is enough for bad news to get back to Negan. Leaving Jadis alone with all her people dead is all about Simon punishing Jadis in his very own particular style - it would seem that Simon was in charge before Negan showed up, perhaps, or at the very least that Simon was trouble for Negan at one point until Negan got Simon under control (remember the reference to Simon "backsliding" in the last half season?)

    So it really doesn't matter. Simon doesn't care about consequences. You can see Negan's grasp on power slipping. He knows it. Simons knows it. And Negan knows Simon knows it. Hell, it seemed clear to me that Negan knew straight away that Simon hadn't done what he was told, and it appeared to me that Simon wasn't all that concerned with hiding that fact. He may have been telling Negan what he wanted to hear, but his performance was too cheery - totally out-of-synch with their earlier conversation, and his earlier demeanour regarding the issue - and Negan saw exactly what Simon was really telling him (that the Heapsters had been massacred). It was a subtle finger in the eye from Simon, he wanted Negan to know, Negan knows it, and I reckon Simon knows that Negan knows that Simon didn't do what he was told.

    I came over all a bit 'Burbs-like with that ... They know, that we know, that they know, that we know!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    JDP - I don't think it matters if Simon left Jadis alive or not. The very fact that he killed more than one single Heapster alone is enough for bad news to get back to Negan. Leaving Jadis alone with all her people dead is all about Simon punishing Jadis in his very own particular style - it would seem that Simon was in charge before Negan showed up, perhaps, or at the very least that Simon was trouble for Negan at one point until Negan got Simon under control (remember the reference to Simon "backsliding" in the last half season?)

    So it really doesn't matter. Simon doesn't care about consequences. You can see Negan's grasp on power slipping. He knows it. Simons knows it. And Negan knows Simon knows it. Hell, it seemed clear to me that Negan knew straight away that Simon hadn't done what he was told, and it appeared to me that Simon wasn't all that concerned with hiding that fact. He may have been telling Negan what he wanted to hear, but his performance was too cheery - totally out-of-synch with their earlier conversation, and his earlier demeanour regarding the issue - and Negan saw exactly what Simon was really telling him (that the Heapsters had been massacred). It was a subtle finger in the eye from Simon, he wanted Negan to know, Negan knows it, and I reckon Simon knows that Negan knows that Simon didn't do what he was told.

    I came over all a bit 'Burbs-like with that ... They know, that we know, that they know, that we know!
    None of what you seem so sure of seems clear at all to me. That Simon is a major a-hole, yes, that he would gladly take over Negan's top boss status, yes, but I don't think he thinks he can pull this off now. It doesn't look to me that he has the support of the other lieutenants at this point, so if he tried to take over leadership he would likely have most Saviors against him and would lose. So, leaving a potential leak of what he did at the Dump is a dangerous move, no matter what Negan may or may not suspect. If he had killed Jadis then there would be no one left to potentially spill the beans to Negan (and Simon's men are likely not going to say anything for fear of the same consequences that would befall Simon), who would then know for sure what Simon did, it would not be any "suspicion" but a confirmed fact. He would have to answer for disobeying orders. And we all know how harshly Negan deals with this issue. Therefore leaving a potential witness doesn't sound like a good idea at all.
    Last edited by JDP; 05-Mar-2018 at 07:07 PM. Reason: ;

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    Re-watch the scene where Simon reports back to Negan - it's dripping with subtext.

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    Walking Dead Moon Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Re-watch the scene where Simon reports back to Negan - it's dripping with subtext.
    Dude, your profile pic hahaha.

    Simon is such a great villain. Your explanation of his return to Negan is spot on.
    "That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Knight View Post
    Dude, your profile pic hahaha.

    Simon is such a great villain. Your explanation of his return to Negan is spot on.
    1) Ogg has such a great face, doesn't he? Interesting sidenote on Talking Dead regarding his character, that Ogg sees him as a man who has a love of musical theatre. Simon certainly has a sense of theatricality about him, and Ogg was on top form in this episode. BuuulllllSHIT!

    2) That scene was positively delicious. The Negan/Simon scenes in Season 8 have been some of the biggest highlights for me this season. I'm eager to see how it all plays out.

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    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    OK... That was a good episode in my book!

    Couple of issues, but a lot of good stuff to more than make up for it!
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil View Post
    OK... That was a good episode in my book!

    Couple of issues, but a lot of good stuff to more than make up for it!
    Oh, go on then, what were your issues?

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    Webmaster Neil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Oh, go on then, what were your issues?
    Didn't quite buy Negan's "saviour" attitude this episode, where previously he was happy throwing grenades left right and center to make a point. And I must admit screaming out once at a "talk funny we do!" And I really didn't buy into the dump people handing over their weapons.

    Interesting how Jadis started talking normally at the end.

    But so many good moments, including Simon of course
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

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