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Thread: The Living Dead - NEW book by George Romero and Daniel Kraus coming in 2020!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid101 View Post
    Zombie Runners are bad enough to deal with imagine zombie rats, birds, fish, insects, you would have no chance.
    Zombie mosquitoes
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  2. #17
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    I am sure that the original script for 'Dead Reckoning' had zombie rats in it. I am completely against the notion of zombie animals. The running zombie is still a bitter pill. Everything is over instantly when they're involved.

    As for the Living Dead book, I am really struggling with this. I know it's only words, but I really hate when the author is throwing in things like the over descriptive nature of the priest's cock and the over descriptive sloppy suicide sex scene. Now maybe part of the reason is I am listening to the audio book and hearing Cardille being forced to say cock when it isn't really required or hearing Davison talk filth to me that is putting me off but I really don't need this kind of addition to a zombie story.

    The POV from the dead is annoying too, as is the WWZ time-line from scratch to dead in terms of 'Mommy's Boy' receiving the scratch in the corridor and turning while dishing out the soup. I will go back to it, but I think I might just patch the audio book and buy the physical copy so it is just my own voice reading out the needless description of guy's hard-ons.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicMoonMonkey View Post
    I am sure that the original script for 'Dead Reckoning' had zombie rats in it. I am completely against the notion of zombie animals. The running zombie is still a bitter pill. Everything is over instantly when they're involved.

    As for the Living Dead book, I am really struggling with this. I know it's only words, but I really hate when the author is throwing in things like the over descriptive nature of the priest's cock and the over descriptive sloppy suicide sex scene. Now maybe part of the reason is I am listening to the audio book and hearing Cardille being forced to say cock when it isn't really required or hearing Davison talk filth to me that is putting me off but I really don't need this kind of addition to a zombie story.

    The POV from the dead is annoying too, as is the WWZ time-line from scratch to dead in terms of 'Mommy's Boy' receiving the scratch in the corridor and turning while dishing out the soup. I will go back to it, but I think I might just patch the audio book and buy the physical copy so it is just my own voice reading out the needless description of guy's hard-ons.
    Yes, some sections of the book I also just found tawdry. A few sections seemed to work OK, but others just felt weak...

    As for the POV of the dead, it sort of reminded me a little of my short little piece of fiction - "Options"
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  4. #19
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    Heading over to Italy tomorrow. I'd completely forgotten about this book, but found it in the store yesterday. I love all things Romero, so I have to give it a go. Having read some of his scripts (thank you Neil for this website), and now working professionally with reading scripts, I still to this day think he's one of the best screenwriters I've ever come across. If the book holds somewhat the same quality, I'm all for it.

    I'm not too terribly troubled by woke politics if they seem plausible, like they do in Romero's works. But we'll see, maybe it'll feel contrived.

  5. #20
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    Let us know what you recon...
    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. [click for more]
    -Carl Sagan

  6. #21
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    From what I've heard a lot of it is someone else's writing based on Romero's outlines and plans?

  7. #22
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    I'm about half-way in. I'm enjoying it, for the most part, but there's one thing that I kinda feel drags a bit. So, 300+ pages in and the narrative has yet to move forward from "Day 1" of the outbreak. Yet, even on day 1 - All hell breaks loose in a matter of hours? That seems a little bit... Excessive. These ghouls don't act in a way they do in the Romero movies. In Dawn of the Dead Roger is bitten and lives for days afterwards. Here a character is scratched and dies within two hours. Kinda fast. So basically the world just collapses, instantly, which just strikes me as kinda... I don't know, action orientated instead of suspenseful.

    I will also say that the book spends way too much time on introducing it's characters. Sometimes entire chapters are spent on describing the traumatic history of a person, and considering there's quite a few characters here, that's just.. A lot of "dead air", no pun intended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    These ghouls don't act in a way they do in the Romero movies. In Dawn of the Dead Roger is bitten and lives for days afterwards. Here a character is scratched and dies within two hours. Kinda fast. So basically the world just collapses, instantly, which just strikes me as kinda... I don't know, action orientated instead of suspenseful.
    This flagrant contradiction was unfortunately introduced by Romero himself in Land. In the previous two movies (Night is excluded from this for a very obvious reason: in that movie no one is familiar with the zombies yet, they are still a "novelty" to everyone) there is no rush to kill anyone who gets a non-lethal zombie bite*, it is understood by everyone who is familiar with the zombies that the "zombification" process of a bite survivor is a slow thing that takes several days to take effect. Thus a bitten person does not become an immediate threat, there is plenty of time to deal with the situation, and said bitten person can even still be useful and help others while his/her health does not deteriorate. This well established element was thrown out the window in Land, though, where now anyone who gets bitten becomes a threat in a matter of just a few hours and has to be disposed of fast.

    *Note: and no, Miguel in Day does not count. The reason why Steel wants to immediately kill him is simply because he hates him and incorrectly blames him for the accident, all the other characters are well aware that Miguel is not an immediate threat since his zombie bite was not lethal, so there really is no rush to dispose of him, they don't buy Steel's "he's been bit, we must act right now!" excuse to try to kill him.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    This flagrant contradiction was unfortunately introduced by Romero himself in Land. In the previous two movies (Night is excluded from this for a very obvious reason: in that movie no one is familiar with the zombies yet, they are still a "novelty" to everyone) there is no rush to kill anyone who gets a non-lethal zombie bite*, it is understood by everyone who is familiar with the zombies that the "zombification" process of a bite survivor is a slow thing that takes several days to take effect. Thus a bitten person does not become an immediate threat, there is plenty of time to deal with the situation, and said bitten person can even still be useful and help others while his/her health does not deteriorate. This well established element was thrown out the window in Land, though, where now anyone who gets bitten becomes a threat in a matter of just a few hours and has to be disposed of fast.

    *Note: and no, Miguel in Day does not count. The reason why Steel wants to immediately kill him is simply because he hates him and incorrectly blames him for the accident, all the other characters are well aware that Miguel is not an immediate threat since his zombie bite was not lethal, so there really is no rush to dispose of him, they don't buy Steel's "he's been bit, we must act right now!" excuse to try to kill him.
    I don't have an issue with that, I'm more talking about the time it takes for a person to be bit and then die. Not necessarily how other's react to it.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    I don't have an issue with that, I'm more talking about the time it takes for a person to be bit and then die. Not necessarily how other's react to it.
    In Land it is not just the reaction of the characters, but we can actually see an example of why they are in a rush to kill anyone who gets bit. Cholo gets bit in the hand, nothing lethal that would kill him in a matter of minutes, yet a few hours later when he reaches Fiddler's Green he is already a zombie!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    In Land it is not just the reaction of the characters, but we can actually see an example of why they are in a rush to kill anyone who gets bit. Cholo gets bit in the hand, nothing lethal that would kill him in a matter of minutes, yet a few hours later when he reaches Fiddler's Green he is already a zombie!
    Well, Peter says in Dawn that from his experience that he's seen someone bitten last "no more than three days". He's not saying that's for everyone, but from his personal experience that's the longest he's seen someone go before turning, which then justifies Roger's slow decline.

    However, he's not saying in there how quickly other people can turn. It could easily be a mere three hours, say, before someone else could turn.

    Cholo chooses to turn and see how the other half live, but he's also got a bit of a trek - blood pumping through his system, carrying the infection. Sure, it can be argued that there is an element of plot convenience, but it's already established in the series that there's a range of time that it affects people, which is fair enough. Just look at Covid - it barely touched some people while it hammered (or even killed) other people.

    In terms of saving someone from a non-lethal bite, well ... the amputation would have to be done very quickly (e.g. Sarah performs the amputation in Day within a minute of the bite). Every second that passes, that infection is seeping into the bloodstream and then getting pumped around the host's body. There'd come a point, quite quickly, where amputation would be pointless as the infection has already spread. So it does have to be done pretty speedily, and without immediate access to some kind of medical help, you'll bleed out.

    Cholo's decision is from a man weary of the whole game - a very rigged game - and, for him at least, the whole world is tumbling down. So he has one last thing he needs to do and that's all he needs out of life at that point - to get Kauffman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Well, Peter says in Dawn that from his experience that he's seen someone bitten last "no more than three days". He's not saying that's for everyone, but from his personal experience that's the longest he's seen someone go before turning, which then justifies Roger's slow decline.

    However, he's not saying in there how quickly other people can turn. It could easily be a mere three hours, say, before someone else could turn.

    Cholo chooses to turn and see how the other half live, but he's also got a bit of a trek - blood pumping through his system, carrying the infection. Sure, it can be argued that there is an element of plot convenience, but it's already established in the series that there's a range of time that it affects people, which is fair enough. Just look at Covid - it barely touched some people while it hammered (or even killed) other people.

    In terms of saving someone from a non-lethal bite, well ... the amputation would have to be done very quickly (e.g. Sarah performs the amputation in Day within a minute of the bite). Every second that passes, that infection is seeping into the bloodstream and then getting pumped around the host's body. There'd come a point, quite quickly, where amputation would be pointless as the infection has already spread. So it does have to be done pretty speedily, and without immediate access to some kind of medical help, you'll bleed out.

    Cholo's decision is from a man weary of the whole game - a very rigged game - and, for him at least, the whole world is tumbling down. So he has one last thing he needs to do and that's all he needs out of life at that point - to get Kauffman.
    In Dawn Peter's prediction based on his experience with the zombies comes quite true: Roger survives a few days. And he has not one, but two zombie bites! In Day, no one except Steel is in any rush to dispose of Miguel. He got bit in the arm, and Sarah thinks she might have cut off his arm in time to stop the infection. The plan now is to keep an eye on him. If his health deteriorates, then that means the infection was not stopped in time, so they will dispose of him. There is no rush to kill him. Miller is quickly disposed of, but there is a good reason for it: he got his throat ripped open by a zombie, he is bleeding to death, there is no hope at all for him, he will die from such a wound and come back as a zombie, it's only a matter of minutes. All of this is very different from what we see in Land, though. As soon as anyone gets bitten, even if on the arm or hand, nothing immediately lethal, the other characters promptly get ready to dispose of them. There is no time to waste. A bitten person is seen as an immediate threat by everyone.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    All of this is very different from what we see in Land, though. As soon as anyone gets bitten, even if on the arm or hand, nothing immediately lethal, the other characters promptly get ready to dispose of them. There is no time to waste. A bitten person is seen as an immediate threat by everyone.
    Examples?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Examples?
    Can't miss them: whenever someone gets bit in this movie there are always characters around who promptly get ready to dispose of the bitten person. There is no "OK, we can do this later on, when the bitten person's health actually gets worse, there's plenty of time to deal with the situation" mentality in this movie. The bitten must be gotten rid of quick, it only takes a few hours for them to turn.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    In Land it is not just the reaction of the characters, but we can actually see an example of why they are in a rush to kill anyone who gets bit. Cholo gets bit in the hand, nothing lethal that would kill him in a matter of minutes, yet a few hours later when he reaches Fiddler's Green he is already a zombie!
    Like I said, I don't have an issue with the reaction of the characters since that could be explained by a number of reasons. You could argue that any society that's managed to maintain order in a post-Zombie world would need to adhere to a very strict doctrine of killing any infected as quickly as possible. That would minimize the risk of zombies waking up within the green. But yeah, I get you with the Cholo bit, forgot about that. Again, you could argue it's circumstantial and a bite is way worse than a scratch.

    Having further read the book it also establishes that people descend into utter anarchy within hours of Patient 0. I just don't buy it.
    Last edited by EvilNed; 05-Aug-2023 at 02:56 PM. Reason: sfdfs

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