TWD 9x15 "The Calm Before" episode discussion... **SPOILERS**
Please keep all talk of episode 9x15 "The Calm Before" specifically inside this thread.
If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).
Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.
Enjoy!
Directed by: Laura Belsey
Written by: Geraldine Inoa & Channing Powell
The fair at the Kingdom is underway, with all four communities coming together in celebration for the first time in years; while some pacts are renewed, other deals will come at a much steeper price.
My goodness. Well we all know Moon has to be the happiest guy here considering the shows choice of victims.
You have no idea.
"That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."
The subversion of expectations and the red herrings, but also the destructive nature of Alpha's actions (notice how many of the kills split people apart - friends, partners). It was good that they even managed to properly humanise background characters or folks just introduced (e.g. the cold open folks - we get to see a snippet of their lives over a long period of time, and it plays in beautifully with Alpha's infiltration of The Kingdom what with the hair and the clothing).
I was genuinely totally gripped by this episode, my mind racing to try and figure out who was going to get it. I was thinking, over the last few weeks, that those killed would be different to the comics - particularly Ezekiel - as with the disappearance of Rick we'd have been pretty light on 'strong male leader' characters, so I figured he'd survive this time around unlike in the comics. I was thinking Rosita would go as per the comics, but the switcheroo and have it be Tara was gutting (not that I wanted Rosita to die, but I was prepared for that to happen).
Killing Henry was a real surprise, too! The way they handled it, cutting back and forth between the horrors slowly being revealed and how it happened (in part) being show at the same time was superb editing. Daryl rushing in to stop Carol from seeing it ... heartbreaking stuff, but sooooooooooo good!
The Highwaymen were only in it briefly, but they made an impact (particularly Ozzy), and even with the bit-parters they managed to find ways to make it have an impact, which goes back to what I was saying about the devestation that Alpha's choice of victims brought.
Henry - huge impact on Ezekiel, Carol, Daryl, and Lydia.
Tara - another long-timer, another leader for Hilltop gone (leaving them in a weak and troubled place).
Enid - Alden's partner, a caregiver (with Sidiq).
Tammy - leaves behind her husband and an adopted child. She's the only kill that matches the same sequence in he comic books.
Addy - she wasn't in it too much, but I really liked her and thought she was pretty sweet, so there's tragedy in such an innocent person dying.
Rodney and Frankie - again, a little partnership of two friends (in two instances) is torn asunder.
Man! What an episode!
A comparison of deaths on the show versus the comics:
https://comicbook.com/thewalkingdead...5-calm-before/
Among the slain were Highwaymen Ozzy (Angus Sampson) and Alek (Jason Kirkpatrick), former Savior DJ (Matt Mangum), former Sanctuary member Frankie (Elyse Nicole DuFour), and Tammy Rose (Brett Butler), Rodney (Joe Ando Hirsh), and Addy (Kelley Mack) of the Hilltop. Unlike the victims in the books, who were abducted or otherwise lured away from a community fair before their murders, Tara, Enid, and the others are seen in flashback engaging in an ultimately futile last stand against an overwhelming number of Whisperers before their deaths.
The Walking Dead issue #144 sees Rick Grimes, accompanied by son Carl and recently rescued former Whisperer Lydia, stumble across the horrific display erected by Lydia’s mother, Alpha. They’re then joined by Michonne, Dante, and Andrea, who asks, “What do we do now?”
Alpha claims one dozen victims in the books, including Michonne’s once-lover King Ezekiel, a pregnant Rosita, and Olivia, Josh, and Erin of Alexandria, Amber of the Sanctuary, Luke, and the Hilltop’s Ken, Larry, Carson, Oscar, and Tammy Rose.
In the show, the above minor characters are either long dead (Olivia, Ken, Carson, Erin), little-seen (Amber), or uninvolved (Josh, Larry). Ozzy, Alek, and DJ are show-only creations, as are Enid, Henry, and Tara (who shares no resemblance to a Savior named Tara in the books). Rodney and Addy are also exclusive to the show, with the latter inspired in part by Anna, a teen who had a crush on Carl, Henry’s comic book counterpart.
This leaves Tammy — who had recently adopted an abandoned Whisperer baby with husband Earl (John Finn) — as the sole character to be piked in both the comic and the television series. Surprisingly, Luke (Dan Fogler) was spared his comic book fate, leaving the group of Yumiko, Magna (Nadia Hilker), Kelly (Angel Theory), and Connie (Lauren Ridloff) in tact — for now.
And now winter is coming!
Carol vs Alpha - it's gotta happen now. Come on Carol!!!
I know the communities will fight back and want to destroy the whisperers, to avenge deaths of their friends, but that seems like a daunting task with the knowledge the whisperers have a horde of thousands of zombies they can unleash on them. Eager to see how the communities come together to do battle with these skin wearing sickos. It should be epic.
I know many people expect Carol to Hulk up and go Terminus mode again. But I could see her just completely detaching. A person can only take so much. If there ever was a point Carol could parallel her comic story this could be the beginning. Either path I could understand though I expect the show needs Carol to Terminus.
Daryl. His popularity has made him Cool to hate to a growing segment. But I tell ya, I continue to like and respect him. His core and inner code is honerable as hell. He isn’t a social butterfly but he cares. He doesn’t complain about pain but rather tries to shield others from pain. Daryl has just as much reason to break down at the pikes, as he’s known several of those people for years.
I love Samantha Morton’s portrayal of Alpha. Scary as hell. She has now rivaled the gov as bonifide psychopath. Ruthless.
Yeah I really loved the episode too. I think it was a smart idea keeping Ezekiel alive after losing Rick, Maggie, and Jesus all in the same season. It’s a shame we lost Enid, though. That one was truly surprising.
I been calling for Tara over Rosita for the longest time but didn’t think they would do it, especially considering how Rosita and her quartet’s storyline has been going. Now where do we go from here? Freakin’ excited for Rosita but I’ll admit, gonna miss having Tara’s bounce around.
They were telegraphing so many comic deaths but then went ahead and flipped the entire script with the exception of poor Tammy Rose, and boy did she put on a fight. They all did.
Also, they even made me think poor Dog was getting it too by leaving him in The Kingdom. Bastards.
As MZ said, Daryl crying out to Carol was heartbreaking. And as Facestabber said, Daryl is just awesome. I was turned off from him during recent seasons but Angela Kang brought him back.
People will be happy Henry was killed but I was saddened by his early demise. He did start all this and it makes sense he would have to pay that receipt. Now we will never see him and Morgan reunite. Morgan would have been proud.
Looks like winter is here next week. How awesome is that? Love this season.
"That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."
I know many people expect Carol to Hulk up and go Terminus mode again. But I could see her just completely detaching. A person can only take so much. If there ever was a point Carol could parallel her comic story this could be the beginning. Either path I could understand though I expect the show needs Carol to Terminus.
Daryl. His popularity has made him Cool to hate to a growing segment. But I tell ya, I continue to like and respect him. His core and inner code is honerable as hell. He isn’t a social butterfly but he cares. He doesn’t complain about pain but rather tries to shield others from pain. Daryl has just as much reason to break down at the pikes, as he’s known several of those people for years.
I love Samantha Morton’s portrayal of Alpha. Scary as hell. She has now rivaled the gov as bonifide psychopath. Ruthless.
Carol's character in the comics was, to be blunt, pretty naff. Comics Carol was kinda annoying and lame. She's a huge distance away from TV Show Carol, who is friggin' awesome - not just in terms of her heroic moments, but also her emotional core. Melissa McBride has absolutely owned that role with poise and panache and crafted one of the greatest TWD characters ever - so I can't really see her going the way of Comics Carol. TV Show Carol is an entirely different beast.
Yep - Morton is breathing a whole new sense of life and depth into Alpha that was never really there in the comics. I was always a bit 'meh' about The Whisperers storyline in the comics - but holy shit have Kang & Co ditched the crap bits and heightened the good parts, and then the likes of Morton come along and raise the bar even higher.
It was a nice little flip in this episode, as well, as Alpha did what our guys did a few episodes ago and infiltrated The Kingdom by donning their guise, in this instance "Debbie". All the while she's wearing someone else's scalp!!! Really damn creepy. I had to go back and flick through my volumes of the comics to see if Alpha infiltrated The Kingdom - and she did - although it was kinda minimal. Here on the show they really made the most of it from the cold open to being there during the fair to her reveal to Daryl of her walker army (in the comics she reveals that to Rick).
Originally Posted by Moon Knight
Thank you, Angela Kang! My girl lives.
Yeah I really loved the episode too. I think it was a smart idea keeping Ezekiel alive after losing Rick, Maggie, and Jesus all in the same season. It’s a shame we lost Enid, though. That one was truly surprising.
I been calling for Tara over Rosita for the longest time but didn’t think they would do it, especially considering how Rosita and her quartet’s storyline has been going. Now where do we go from here? Freakin’ excited for Rosita but I’ll admit, gonna miss having Tara’s bounce around.
They were telegraphing so many comic deaths but then went ahead and flipped the entire script with the exception of poor Tammy Rose, and boy did she put on a fight. They all did.
Also, they even made me think poor Dog was getting it too by leaving him in The Kingdom. Bastards.
As MZ said, Daryl crying out to Carol was heartbreaking. And as Facestabber said, Daryl is just awesome. I was turned off from him during recent seasons but Angela Kang brought him back.
People will be happy Henry was killed but I was saddened by his early demise. He did start all this and it makes sense he would have to pay that receipt. Now we will never see him and Morgan reunite. Morgan would have been proud.
Looks like winter is here next week. How awesome is that? Love this season.
1) It was a shame that Enid didn't really get much to do this season, especially in the back half, but them's the breaks of having a huge ensemble cast. There just ain't time for everyone. In an interview she expressed her frustration with that, but that it kinda felt like her character had run out of story anyway.
2) Yeah. I've really liked Tara throughout her stint on the show, and especially her sense of humour - so hopefully we won't lose too much of that, as her little comments and outlooks on situations were always a pleasant little balancing act to keep things fresh and fun.
3) Speaking of Dog - I loved the moment when Daryl chose Connie to look after Dog. It was a simple but sweet moment, and I really want to see more of Daryl and Connie together. It'd be interesting, too, if Daryl could maybe even skirt towards something romantic with Connie, as that's something so outside of Daryl's wheelhouse it'd be interesting to see how that would develop or even work with a character like him. He's grown so much over the course of the show.
I think Daryl was underused during the Saviours arc. Gimple just reduced him to mostly grunting and looking cool, whereas he's at his best when he's getting some emotional stuff to chew on as well - there's a lot of depth to that character and that's what makes him work. Looking cool is just the surface of it all. There's a lot going on inside that character and I've loved seeing that brought out again thanks, once more, to Kang & Co.
4) The loss of Henry is an interesting one. Carl hasn't had loads of good stuff to really do in the comics for a long time now, so it was curious to see his story get shunted over to Henry, and in a way it's almost respectful to let that side of things die now that The Whisperers storyline is well underway. Interestingly, this is the third member of the Lintz family to appear on the show (and get killed off of it!).
5) Winter on TWD. Finally! There were a few seasons there which all took place in a small chunk of time, but it was funny to see blazing heat in the first half of a season give way to autumn chills and wool-lined jackets in the back half, only for the blazing heat to return in the next season! It's good to see we'll be getting to see a bit of something else, although with Season 10 starting to shoot at the usual time, surely there'll be a time jump again, perhaps to spring?
...
Massive walker herd ... I forsee communities being inundated ... ... perhaps Negan will find an opportunity to prove his worth?
I can really see Negan getting released from his cell now. I love every scene he’s in. Alpha also killed Frankie, Negan won’t be happy about that.
As far as winter on TWD- it’s about damn time. I’m looking forward to walkers in the snow and I just know Nicotero has some cool bits in store for us.
Daryl having Connie look after Dog was really nice. I’m digging their relationship.
There is a character coming up that can fill Tara’s light hearted and quirky role, so I’m sure that void will be filled next season.
Edit: I see MZ can appreciate my avatar update.
Last edited by Moon Knight; 25-Mar-2019 at 05:53 PM.
Reason: Rosita my Rosita
"That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."
I can really see Negan getting released from his cell now. I love every scene he’s in. Alpha also killed Frankie, Negan won’t be happy about that.
There is a character coming up that can fill Tara’s light hearted and quirky role, so I’m sure that void will be filled next season.
Edit: I see MZ can appreciate my avatar update.
1) Was Frankie one of Negan's wives? I'd forgotten about them! I haven't re-watched Season 8 yet, and with the ensemble cast being so large it's tough trying to remember everyone (and their names!)
2) You mean the one with the pink wrap? Hopefully, if she does appear on the show, they'll write her so she's not so full-on and find a talented actress to ground her while maintaining the sense of humour.
3) Yes, very appropriate.
Last edited by MinionZombie; 25-Mar-2019 at 05:54 PM.
Without spoiler tags from comic Carol I was referring to a specific act she does that is a WTF moment. Not the boringness of her comic role.
I agree with ya moon about Zeke. I think his death would have been far more impactful BUT another main departure could prove devastating. The loss of Glenn Rick Carl and Maggie have created a loss of viewership. A tier 2 level death or two may have helped the scene. Most of the heads I empathized with but wasn’t gonna lose sleep over. Father G, Eugene and I won’t mention Rosita for Moons sake. Hahahaha. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying I wanted those deaths. I just think fans have more attachment to them but not at main cast level.
I like Enid. Not sure why but I always have. JSS. I guess because I have daughters I would hope they would JSS like Enid did.
I have been vocal about Tara in the past. I don’t hate her but just wished she could have died rather than Tyrese, Sasha, Bob etc. seeing her head on the pike did make me sad. She was a good person.
Frankie was indeed one of Negan’s wives, MZ. That’s why they had Eguene looking for her, so we could remember who she was.
I also know what Facestabber was getting at with comic Carol. That would be tragic.
MZ- Yeah, that’s her. I really like that character, a bit over the top, yes, but with someone who calls herself “The Princess of Pittsburgh”, any Romero fan can appreciate that haha. I’m sure she will be toned down. Look at how much more believable Ezekiel was written and portrayed.
"That's the deal, right? The people who are living have it harder, right? … the whole world is haunted now and there's no getting out of that, not until we're dead."
Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own?
Last edited by JDP; 27-Mar-2019 at 10:29 AM.
Reason: ;
Maybe I missed something because I had to watch this episode in two parts, as there was a screw up on AMC's part when the episode premiered and it was incompletely recorded, but how did the Whisperers manage to capture so many people without anyone noticing? We only saw Alpha infiltrate the fair. Did she do all this on her own?
I'd imagine she had a few tagalongs lurking about helping facilitate her plan, but she would have also been getting people alone, which would have been easy enough with the vast majority of people all congregated in the same area(s). Find a way of getting someone alone - then pounce.
However, we don't see those mechanics in action as it would just take too long, for one, and for two, it'd not really fit into the big reveal sequence at the end. The emotion and the revelation of the scene is what's important to get across to the viewer, whereas the literal how of it isn't.
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Originally Posted by facestabber
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