The Rings Of Power (Amazon series) - Lord of the Rings

[Neil]

Seems the fear is Amazon are going to do what Disney did to Star Wars. That we're going to see them alter the LOTR franchise/lore according to their prefered notions... ie: If they were to make Jackson's LOTR today, half the dwarves would be female, half the elves would be black and Frodo and Sam would be in a gay relationship. So, is the new $1b series going to be solid (fairly faithful) production? Or a bunch of modern producers believing they know best and basically just using the Tolkien franchise to springboard their material?

[MinionZombie]

I read that they fired a guy who was a Tolkein scholar and one of the most regarded experts in the lore of LOTR as well as Tolkein's intentions with his storytelling. They've apparently replaced him with somebody who thought the description of Gollum was referring to race rather than the darkness of his soul (the latter is the case, obviously) ... quite stunning that whoever this replacement is couldn't figure that out. Apparently 'fan backlash' has already begun (as in, slagging off fans with concerns as being various ists and isms). One of the fans' concerns is that a Dwarf woman doesn't have a beard, despite that being the established lore of Dwarf women in Middle Earth. There was an interesting tweet from a person of colour saying how it should not be a case of forcing "white culture" onto people of colour. I wouldn't necessarily think of LOTR and Tolkein's work as "white culture" specifically, but then again, perhaps that's just a matter of perspective? It was an intriguing take on the situation, suggesting a kind of "hand me down" scenario, perhaps like male characters being converted to female rather than creating a brand new bespoke female character (which leaves the unsavory impression that studios/content creators/etc think that women aren't worth more than a cheap sex-swapped character with slapdash bland characterisation and a narrative arc that more resembles a flat line). It's a curious situation, especially when Amazon's spending that amount of money, to not treat Tolkein's work with the utmost care - because the fans and, hell, scholars of said work know the world inside out as well as Tolkein's intentions. It also makes you wonder if the showrunners think of themselves as higher than the creator of the work they're adapting? No wonder the Tolkein family are so careful with selling the rights to the man's various works. Speaking of Tolkein, the latest episode of South Park was friggin' hilarious!

[Neil]

I read that they fired a guy who was a Tolkein scholar and one of the most regarded experts in the lore of LOTR as well as Tolkein's intentions with his storytelling. They've apparently replaced him with somebody who thought the description of Gollum was referring to race rather than the darkness of his soul (the latter is the case, obviously) ... quite stunning that whoever this replacement is couldn't figure that out. Apparently 'fan backlash' has already begun (as in, slagging off fans with concerns as being various ists and isms). One of the fans' concerns is that a Dwarf woman doesn't have a beard, despite that being the established lore of Dwarf women in Middle Earth. There was an interesting tweet from a person of colour saying how it should not be a case of forcing "white culture" onto people of colour. I wouldn't necessarily think of LOTR and Tolkein's work as "white culture" specifically, but then again, perhaps that's just a matter of perspective? It was an intriguing take on the situation, suggesting a kind of "hand me down" scenario, perhaps like male characters being converted to female rather than creating a brand new bespoke female character (which leaves the unsavory impression that studios/content creators/etc think that women aren't worth more than a cheap sex-swapped character with slapdash bland characterisation and a narrative arc that more resembles a flat line). It's a curious situation, especially when Amazon's spending that amount of money, to not treat Tolkein's work with the utmost care - because the fans and, hell, scholars of said work know the world inside out as well as Tolkein's intentions. It also makes you wonder if the showrunners think of themselves as higher than the creator of the work they're adapting? No wonder the Tolkein family are so careful with selling the rights to the man's various works. Speaking of Tolkein, the latest episode of South Park was friggin' hilarious! The series is going to be an interesting watch (at least for a while) What did South Part cover then?

[MinionZombie]

What did South Part cover then? Delicious satire regarding race relations, specifically white folks using/co-opting non-white faces for business reasons (to appear more inclusive while being quite the opposite in practice) and how race discussions often excludes the people being talked about. It's all incited by Stan suddenly discovering that his friend "Token Black" is actually named Tolkein Black, and that everyone but him already knew that. Horrified by what this means, Stan desperately tries to make amends in the most cringe-worthy 'worthy' ways possible, attempting to make JRR Tolkein's work mandatory reading in school. He even gives a speech in class - with Tolkein Black actually excluded from the class during the speech! - and reads Tolkein's work from a 'black voice perspective' (naturally it's a stereotypical version of a black voice). By desperately trying to not be racist, both Stan and Randy end up actually being racist. There's lots of layers to the episode with so many pointed jokes. It is one of their sharpest and most satirical episodes in some time. Hilarious stuff that's hitting nails on the head left, right, and centre.

[Neil]

There seems to be a very strong feeling this series is going to suck

[MinionZombie]

It doesn't help that the showrunners, who've seemingly done next to nothing before this (so how on earth are they running this big show???), have apparently been quite smug in thinking they can write a better story than Tolkein. Add to that the firing of a Tolkein scholar only to be replaced with someone who obsessively applies identity politics to anything and everything (I've encountered such academics when I was at uni, and they're painfully annoying people desperate to set themselves apart with edgelord theories), plus the horrendous way Amazon have gone about advertising this show - particularly those cringe-festival 'influencer' videos cut-and-paste from nation-to-nation featuring so-called LOTR fanatics who don't even know the first thing about the saga, including the one where someone is literally pissing up a wall in the background - SERIOUSLY!!! - and you've got a turd sandwich on your hands. The approach to the very tiny amount of material this show actually has the rights to could best be described as "fast and loose" at best, or "shitting all over and disrespecting a lifetime's work" at worst. All that and more has turned me right off of it. I won't be wasting my time with it and won't be supporting such an approach to material as admired and richly crafted as LOTR.

[Neil]

It doesn't help that the showrunners, who've seemingly done next to nothing before this (so how on earth are they running this big show???), have apparently been quite smug in thinking they can write a better story than Tolkein. Add to that the firing of a Tolkein scholar only to be replaced with someone who obsessively applies identity politics to anything and everything (I've encountered such academics when I was at uni, and they're painfully annoying people desperate to set themselves apart with edgelord theories), plus the horrendous way Amazon have gone about advertising this show - particularly those cringe-festival 'influencer' videos cut-and-paste from nation-to-nation featuring so-called LOTR fanatics who don't even know the first thing about the saga, including the one where someone is literally pissing up a wall in the background - SERIOUSLY!!! - and you've got a turd sandwich on your hands. The approach to the very tiny amount of material this show actually has the rights to could best be described as "fast and loose" at best, or "shitting all over and disrespecting a lifetime's work" at worst. All that and more has turned me right off of it. I won't be wasting my time with it and won't be supporting such an approach to material as admired and richly crafted as LOTR. I'll watch the first few episodes to see what it's like... I did that with Kenobi before bailing at ep 3.

[Neil]

Anyone watched it yet? Seems a lot of folks are complaining about lazy and dull writing? Seems people are suggesting 3hrs in and there's been little progress and characterisation? Given each of the films were about this long and provided immense story and characterisation that sounds worrying!

[MinionZombie]

Anyone watched it yet? Seems a lot of folks are complaining about lazy and dull writing? Seems people are suggesting 3hrs in and there's been little progress and characterisation? Given each of the films were about this long and provided immense story and characterisation that sounds worrying! I won't watch it. Sounds like utter shite. I've seen a lot of reviews and reactions (the ones that haven't been censored or blocked by Amazon-owned IMDb or their other subsidiaries, that is) and the common theme seems to be 'often pretty, but dull as ditchwater'. Ironically for a show so obsessed with "representation", the show has had flack for its condescending 'versions' of the Scottish and the Irish (particularly the latter in the form of RoP's hobbits ... er, sorry, 'HARFOOTS' ). Seems to be riddled with rampant disregard for the lore, too, which is quite off-putting - and I've never even read Tolkein's work, so it must be infuriating for those who are enraptured by the books - if the showrunners can't be arsed to respect the source material, why should I have any interest in the show? The advertising has been truly awful as well, and the cast interviews have been achingly bad at times. This is what happens when all you do is focus on "diversity" and forget about what everybody actually wants - good writing, good acting etc etc - just look at how House of the Dragon has been generally so well received (irrespective of "diversity" - although the cast/crew interviews where they thuddingly talk about "patriarchy" in the context of the show is so ham-fisted compared to the show's general subtlety with the subject, save for the odd clunker line of dialogue). The old chestnut of resorting to calling fans ists/isms because they don't like the show is straight out of the Disney playbook and as predictable as you could get. Pretty hollow and pathetic when the main criticisms all focus around story, dialogue, pacing, characterisation, and mangling of the lore (i.e. the quality - or lack thereof - of the writing). Are there trolls commenting? Sure, but they're trolls and few-and-far-between. They do what trolls do, find anything that's trending and shit on it for attention. By believing these handful of morons actually represent the fanbase in any meaningful way is, ironically, boosting the trolls by feeding them at a corporate level. Stupid. Rings of Power looked shit from the trailers anyway, then it just kept getting worse and worse and worse in the advertising and everything surrounding it, and now with numerous reviews - even from publications that pimped the hell out of the show for money - expressing considerable disappointment in it, well, I ain't gonna waste my time with that. I'll stick with Jackson's films, ta.

[Neil]

I won't watch it. Sounds like utter shite. I've seen a lot of reviews and reactions (the ones that haven't been censored or blocked by Amazon-owned IMDb or their other subsidiaries, that is) and the common theme seems to be 'often pretty, but dull as ditchwater'. Ironically for a show so obsessed with "representation", the show has had flack for its condescending 'versions' of the Scottish and the Irish (particularly the latter in the form of RoP's hobbits ... er, sorry, 'HARFOOTS' ). Seems to be riddled with rampant disregard for the lore, too, which is quite off-putting - and I've never even read Tolkein's work, so it must be infuriating for those who are enraptured by the books - if the showrunners can't be arsed to respect the source material, why should I have any interest in the show? The advertising has been truly awful as well, and the cast interviews have been achingly bad at times. This is what happens when all you do is focus on "diversity" and forget about what everybody actually wants - good writing, good acting etc etc - just look at how House of the Dragon has been generally so well received (irrespective of "diversity" - although the cast/crew interviews where they thuddingly talk about "patriarchy" in the context of the show is so ham-fisted compared to the show's general subtlety with the subject, save for the odd clunker line of dialogue). The old chestnut of resorting to calling fans ists/isms because they don't like the show is straight out of the Disney playbook and as predictable as you could get. Pretty hollow and pathetic when the main criticisms all focus around story, dialogue, pacing, characterisation, and mangling of the lore (i.e. the quality - or lack thereof - of the writing). Are there trolls commenting? Sure, but they're trolls and few-and-far-between. They do what trolls do, find anything that's trending and shit on it for attention. By believing these handful of morons actually represent the fanbase in any meaningful way is, ironically, boosting the trolls by feeding them at a corporate level. Stupid. Rings of Power looked shit from the trailers anyway, then it just kept getting worse and worse and worse in the advertising and everything surrounding it, and now with numerous reviews - even from publications that pimped the hell out of the show for money - expressing considerable disappointment in it, well, I ain't gonna waste my time with that. I'll stick with Jackson's films, ta. I'll wait for an overall opinion/review at the end of the series now... And base my viewing on that.

[shootemindehead]

It's been an extremely mixed bag so far and seems to be aimed more at people who've heard of Tolkien or maybe saw Jackson's movies rather than the folk who have spent time deep diving into his writing. The acting has been uniformly bad, with Clark doing a kind of stroppy mare act that doesn't ring true with the Galadriel that most readers would be familiar with. Other characters don't really fare too well either such as Elrond. The story, as it stands at Ep3, has been a slow burn to say the least. But it's also been a thoroughly uninteresting one, with a particularly wretched side story involving Harfoots that have truly appalling Oirish stage accents that get right up my arse. At this point I can see myself hanging on for the remaining episodes, but I am certainly not interested enough to be enthralled about a second series of it. It's not an absolute disaster by any means, but it's also just not very good either and for the obscene money that it cost, that's almost criminal.

[MinionZombie]

and for the obscene money that it cost, that's almost criminal. Just think of how many smaller original shows from new creators that could have been made for the budget of the damp squib that is RoP. They might have found some hidden gems that ended up spawning their own wider IPs, merchandise, and dedicated fan followings. Infuriating.

[shootemindehead]

I can think of even better things a billion dollars could help with.

[EvilNed]

I watched the first three episodes. I rarely, if ever, watch tv shows and part of the reason are that a few seasons in there are a never-ending supply of storylines that do not advance beyond one or two scenes each episode. Unfortunately, already by the third episode there are more character and intrigues introduced than can fit within one episode. Add to that, none of the plot lines are really that interesting and none of them have anything to do with each other. What we're left with is just a bunch of short scenes that take place all over Middle Earth but don't really contribute to a greater plot - and remember we're three hours into the drama by this point! I might, might give it one more episode. But I have a really hard time seeing how this is going to go anywhere, or wrap anything up, seeing as there's only 5 episodes left of Season 1.

[MinionZombie]

I can think of even better things a billion dollars could help with. Alright, Comrade. I might, might give it one more episode. But I have a really hard time seeing how this is going to go anywhere, or wrap anything up, seeing as there's only 5 episodes left of Season 1. I think the intention is for five ruddy seasons of it! Well ... we'll see how that pans out, eh? Speaks to the arrogance of some of these entertainment monoliths, doesn't it? Reminds me of Universal and their idiotic 'UMCU' (Universal Monsters Cinematic Universe) that they were boasting about ahead of The Mummy's release. That went well, didn't it?!