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Thread: Defending Dawn O4

  1. #16
    Dying radiokill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griff
    the remake reverts back to the more basic structure of NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, making it a simple seige movie.
    If you can see Dawn as masterpiece, why can't you see Night as the simple perfection that it is?
    I Corinthians 1:18-31 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


  2. #17
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    check your zombie lore

    OK, forgive me for going on a Dennis Miller style rant here -- I realize that there is a certain prejudice about the concept of the remakes, mainly due to running zombies and the title. The only thing I didn't like in Dawn 04 was the fact that the infection was spread only by bites. As for running zombies -- well, here's some information that's going to make a lot of slow ghoul fan's heads explode! The very first rendition of zombies came out in Africa way back in the 1830's. Later the Voodoo religion brought it to the southern United States, where the fables and lore grew.

    The zombies being written about in newspaper collums and occult books stem from Alabama & New Orleans with direct connections from Haiti. They contend that "Zombies"..and yes that is the word they use --rise from the dead and kill their human prey out of vengeance and witchdoctor control. What makes this odd, is the fact that they attributed speed and cunning to them and never had them pegged as "sluggish walkers". You can check this out yourself by accessing Zombie Fables of the Old World by Illeane Buboise. or checking out A&E's version of Exploring the Undead.

    In reality the "popular" idea of sluggish zombies came from an old film starring Vincent Price, which featured some very Romero-esque mutant-vampires. Romero himself readily admited that he got a huge influence for Night of the Living dead from that film. (He did so in "Masters of Horror). The film is called "I am Legend". It features a young Vincent price, trapped in his home during the nightime hours, as sluggish ghouls bang away at his home trying to get in to kill him -- sound familiar? In fact, it resembles Night of Living dead so much, it almost appeard like a spin off, but the flick came out well before Night of the Living dead. In the 70's a sort of remake was made "Based" on it, called Omegaman, starring Charlton Heston.

    Personally, I like the idea of both walking and running ghouls. Oddly running ghouls are actually closer to the real zombies of old. If they wer flying zombies or somehtogn, than I'd say hold up, dude -your getting inot "Evil Dead" territory, not zombies. As for Dawn 04 and the new remake, yeah -- it might have been a better idea to have named dawn 04 somehting else, that way they wouldnt be this kind of prejudice expectation behind it. As for dawn 04 being a kiddie flick --thats just obviuso hater's talk and just plain stupid to say. The only reason that was said, is becuase, the director was an MTV video filmstar and the wrieter had wrote for the Scooby doo movies. Dawn 04 has blood squiritng, brain exploding action and definately mature themes. If you can call that a kiddie flick, you'd better register yourself on the child predators list. In short, yes -George Romero's zombie films are the best -I didn't like the idea of "thinking" zombies in Land of the dead, but I'm not out protesting against it either. To me, thinking zombies humanizes them to much and makes them much less scary. What's next, will they be driving cars and talking foul language like Brian Keen's ghouls in "the Rising?" As for now, the original dawn of the dead is my favorite of all zombie flicks, but dawn 04 is still right behind it in my oppinion.

  3. #18
    Banned Svengoolie's Avatar
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    Yeah, but Assassin's point was that he didn't go out and remake James Whale's FRANKENSTEIN as his first movie, did he?
    Actually, that wasn't Assassin's point. His "point" was an attack on James Gunn's resume as a writer....implying that he wasn't qualified enough to handle the subject matter. And, I reminded him that GAR was even less "qualified" than Gunn was when he stepped into the ring, zombie screenplay-wise.

    Oh, and as for originality--by his own admission, all GAR did with NOTLD was "rip-off" (and those are HIS words) The Last Man On Earth.

    I'd say so. There's no telling where George's DAWN is going to take you, not even 5 minutes before the end. For a zombie film, DAWN OF THE DEAD is very sophisticated. By contrast, the remake reverts back to the more basic structure of NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, making it a simple seige movie.
    That's laughable.

    All of GAR's zombie flicks follow the same formula:
    1. Humans encounter ghouls.
    2. Humans reach safety.
    3. Humans begin to fight amoungst themselves.
    4. Ghouls break in somehow and eat white, usually racist, bad-guys.
    5. The End.

  4. #19
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svengoolie



    That's laughable.

    All of GAR's zombie flicks follow the same formula:
    1. Humans encounter ghouls.
    2. Humans reach safety.
    3. Humans begin to fight amoungst themselves.
    4. Ghouls break in somehow and eat white, usually racist, bad-guys.
    5. The End.
    What's wrong burny? Feeling unloved lately?


    oh....you've got red on you.

  5. #20
    Dying radiokill's Avatar
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    riddleone - glad someone sees it like I do. I've long been undecided on how I feel about the bit Romero's lore that the all recently dead rise and I still am. Also, Bub, Big Daddy, zombie training, and thinking zombies are enjoyable, but all that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I see the satirical purposes of the thinking dead, but I think it harms the scare/fantasy/sci-fi side of things.
    I Corinthians 1:18-31 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


  6. #21
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiokill
    riddleone - glad someone sees it like I do. I've long been undecided on how I feel about the bit Romero's lore that the all recently dead rise and I still am. Also, Bub, Big Daddy, zombie training, and thinking zombies are enjoyable, but all that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I see the satirical purposes of the thinking dead, but I think it harms the scare/fantasy/sci-fi side of things.
    oh my! I would be more afraid of a thinking zombie than a dumb feeder.

  7. #22
    Dying radiokill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenochrome
    oh my! I would be more afraid of a thinking zombie than a dumb feeder.
    I'll be less ambiguous....It just seems less cool.
    I Corinthians 1:18-31 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


  8. #23
    crackin' eggs of wisdom bassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svengoolie
    All of GAR's zombie flicks follow the same formula:
    1. Humans encounter ghouls.
    2. Humans reach safety.
    3. Humans begin to fight amoungst themselves.
    4. Ghouls break in somehow and eat white, usually racist, bad-guys.
    5. The End.
    You're missing alot there, Burny. Maybe you should re-watch the films and try to think....

  9. #24
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassman311
    You're missing alot there, Burny. Maybe you should re-watch the films and try to think....
    Burny can't "think".....Burny only argues, pouts, disappears, sobers up, watches Bad News Bears again...and starts all over.
    oh well, at least he's entertaining.



    and, .....he's got red on him.
    Last edited by Adrenochrome; 03-Aug-2006 at 01:18 AM.

  10. #25
    Just been bitten Brubaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riddleone
    OK, forgive me for going on a Dennis Miller style rant here -- I realize that there is a certain prejudice about the concept of the remakes, mainly due to running zombies and the title. The only thing I didn't like in Dawn 04 was the fact that the infection was spread only by bites. As for running zombies -- well, here's some information that's going to make a lot of slow ghoul fan's heads explode! The very first rendition of zombies came out in Africa way back in the 1830's. Later the Voodoo religion brought it to the southern United States, where the fables and lore grew.

    The zombies being written about in newspaper collums and occult books stem from Alabama & New Orleans with direct connections from Haiti. They contend that "Zombies"..and yes that is the word they use --rise from the dead and kill their human prey out of vengeance and witchdoctor control. What makes this odd, is the fact that they attributed speed and cunning to them and never had them pegged as "sluggish walkers". You can check this out yourself by accessing Zombie Fables of the Old World by Illeane Buboise. or checking out A&E's version of Exploring the Undead.

    In reality the "popular" idea of sluggish zombies came from an old film starring Vincent Price, which featured some very Romero-esque mutant-vampires. Romero himself readily admited that he got a huge influence for Night of the Living dead from that film. (He did so in "Masters of Horror). The film is called "I am Legend". It features a young Vincent price, trapped in his home during the nightime hours, as sluggish ghouls bang away at his home trying to get in to kill him -- sound familiar? In fact, it resembles Night of Living dead so much, it almost appeard like a spin off, but the flick came out well before Night of the Living dead. In the 70's a sort of remake was made "Based" on it, called Omegaman, starring Charlton Heston.

    Personally, I like the idea of both walking and running ghouls. Oddly running ghouls are actually closer to the real zombies of old. If they wer flying zombies or somehtogn, than I'd say hold up, dude -your getting inot "Evil Dead" territory, not zombies. As for Dawn 04 and the new remake, yeah -- it might have been a better idea to have named dawn 04 somehting else, that way they wouldnt be this kind of prejudice expectation behind it. As for dawn 04 being a kiddie flick --thats just obviuso hater's talk and just plain stupid to say. The only reason that was said, is becuase, the director was an MTV video filmstar and the wrieter had wrote for the Scooby doo movies. Dawn 04 has blood squiritng, brain exploding action and definately mature themes. If you can call that a kiddie flick, you'd better register yourself on the child predators list. In short, yes -George Romero's zombie films are the best -I didn't like the idea of "thinking" zombies in Land of the dead, but I'm not out protesting against it either. To me, thinking zombies humanizes them to much and makes them much less scary. What's next, will they be driving cars and talking foul language like Brian Keen's ghouls in "the Rising?" As for now, the original dawn of the dead is my favorite of all zombie flicks, but dawn 04 is still right behind it in my oppinion.
    Since someone has to acknowledge this long post, I'll offer my own comments. I'm not necessarily replying to any of your points but just offering my own insight.

    I've seen quite a few movies with mummies in them, some of which move fast (the Brendan Frasier movies, among other earlier ones) and some of which move very, very slow. You see the exact same thing with movies featuring werewolves, some of them are fast and others are slow. Wasn't Jack Nicholson's werewolf from Wolf a runner?

    One example that often comes to mind is The Blob. The version with Steve McQueen has a fairly slow moving blob and the 1980's remake features a blob that just tore through town like a tidal wave.

    I even remember one of the later day Halloween movies which had Michael Myers running after people (or close to it), which is something he never did in any of the other films from the series.

    For that reason, I am able to accept running zombies easier than some of the readers here. It doesn't mean I have to like them, though

    I saw all the movies in the order they were actually released, including the Night and Dawn remakes. I never saw any of them in the theater, always on video or dvd after the fact. The original version of Dawn is far better than the remake. However, the 04' version has its merits.

    The argument that running zombies shows a complete lack of realism needs to be thrown out the window all together. Just a zombie outbreak alone should be a clear sign you are already watching a work of fiction that could never possibly happen. It doesn't matter whether they are shuffling, running, standing still or sitting around a table playing chess.
    Last edited by Brubaker; 03-Aug-2006 at 02:57 AM.

  11. #26
    Dying AssassinFromHell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svengoolie
    Actually, that wasn't Assassin's point. His "point" was an attack on James Gunn's resume as a writer....implying that he wasn't qualified enough to handle the subject matter. And, I reminded him that GAR was even less "qualified" than Gunn was when he stepped into the ring, zombie screenplay-wise.

    Oh, and as for originality--by his own admission, all GAR did with NOTLD was "rip-off" (and those are HIS words) The Last Man On Earth.
    Romero had the most influential piece in modern zombie genre. James Gunn has a series of kiddie flicks.

    And Night wasn't a rip off of The Last Man On Earth. It was a ripoff of the book that LMOE was based on, I Am Legend, by Richard Matheson.

    Smart ass I know, I couldn't help myself

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenochrome
    oh my! I would be more afraid of a thinking zombie than a dumb feeder.
    A thinking zombie is a vampire with a bad complection who likes his meals chunky.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiokill
    If you can see Dawn as masterpiece, why can't you see Night as the simple perfection that it is?
    Hey, I'm not ragging on NIGHT here. Its a great film but many flicks, zombie and otherwise, before and after, have used pretty much the exact same template. I'm just saying that DAWN took a step forward whereas the remake took a step back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Svengoolie
    Actually, that wasn't Assassin's point. His "point" was an attack on James Gunn's resume as a writer....implying that he wasn't qualified enough to handle the subject matter.
    ...the subject matter being a remake of a classic. Here's exactly what Assassin said after giving a brief rundown of Gunn's resume:

    "This is his experience he carried into remaking what is arguably one of the most monumental zombie flicks of all time."

    He wasn't referring to any old zombie movie, original or otherwise. He was referring to what is widely considered the grandaddy of zombie movies.

    And, I reminded him that GAR was even less "qualified" than Gunn was when he stepped into the ring, zombie screenplay-wise.
    George was less qualified to do what, though? Make his first movie? A low budget feature that had no public pre-conception or anticipation? He wasn't remaking a classic, he was doing his own thing that, had it been an utter failure, would have vanished into obscurity and be mourned by few.

    That wasn't the case with Gunn. He was hand picked to rewrite a popular horror film and I think its fair to say his credentials (TROMEO AND JULIET, MYSTERY MEN & SCOOBY DOO) were lacking at best.

    In other words: apples and oranges, Svengoolie, apples and oranges...

    All of GAR's zombie flicks follow the same formula:
    1. Humans encounter ghouls.
    2. Humans reach safety.
    3. Humans begin to fight amoungst themselves.
    4. Ghouls break in somehow and eat white, usually racist, bad-guys.
    5. The End.
    Yeah? And every story has a beginning, a middle and an end. That's so generalized its not even worth acknowledging. Infact...
    Last edited by Griff; 03-Aug-2006 at 09:18 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "28 Days Later came out after we started (Dawn 04). Our zombies were running before we knew what their zombies were." - Zack Snyder, LIAR.

  14. #29
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    Here's Yawn04 to me:

    *runs with furious expression on face*

    *runs, then LEAPS with angry expression on face*

    *runs, leaps, then FLIES at poorly written character with blood dripping from mouth while hissing in slow motion as Ving-a-ling Rhamey-baby makes another "f*ck all y'all" style comment before winking at the teenage audience who are too busy inserting their winkies into their popcorn buckets cos they saw it in a movie once*

    *shrugs shoulders and walks away*

    Come to think of it, my grandmother did refer to Yawn04 as a poorly written, phoned-in-directed piece of MTV, brainless circle jerk once...


  15. #30
    Walking Dead Adrenochrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaos
    A thinking zombie is a vampire with a bad complection who likes his meals chunky.

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