Why I'm getting more and more pecimistic about 'little green men'...

[Khardis]

In a thousand years do you not suspect that humanity in one shape or form will be imortal? And probably have in one shape or form developed suspended animation? Given this development, do you not think (a) we would have set our goals more skyward, (b) we would be using radio or robot based attempts at communication? And if we would, surely others would/might!? A number of years ago I wondered if gravity could be used for instantaneous communication... Newtonian physics sort of treats it that way.. But then I found out gravity travels at the speed of light as well (or Einstein predicts)... Wierd! No faster... No slower... I dont think we will ever be immortal. Even if you can stop us form aging physically the human mind and psyche isnt meant to last so long. We would all go insane somewhere into our 200th birthday. Then you have to consider how to stop people from being born, since if noone is going to die we would fill up rather quickly. Again though how do you get your robot to the nearest star (which isnt assure dot have life in its system) without it being in light speed? It would take 1000s of earth years. The costs would be absurd.

[Terran]

I dont think we will ever be immortal. Even if you can stop us form aging physically the human mind and psyche isnt meant to last so long. We would all go insane somewhere into our 200th birthday. Then you have to consider how to stop people from being born, since if noone is going to die we would fill up rather quickly. What if you essentially digitize the mind....and your mind "lives" in a virtual universe...kindof like the Matrix...except that you dont have a body on the other side....everything you are is data... So the human animal goes extinct but our minds live on as data... that run machines in the "real" world....then when time is not important those long journeys can be made because time means nothing to a "human" then.... So once probes or landers or various equipment and robotics reach far off planets or galaxies and establish themselves...you can send "human" minds to the probes at the speed of light....because you are sending them as light information that then gets loaded into the probe....

[Mutineer]

I am 100 % certain that life (intelligent) exists in the Universe; I doubt they're flying around in spaceships ala Star Wars or Geek Trek; but most definite are intelligent and farther advanced than we.

[Khardis]

What if you essentially digitize the mind....and your mind "lives" in a virtual universe...kindof like the Matrix...except that you dont have a body on the other side....everything you are is data... So the human animal goes extinct but our minds live on as data... that run machines in the "real" world....then when time is not important those long journeys can be made because time means nothing to a "human" then.... So once probes or landers or various equipment and robotics reach far off planets or galaxies and establish themselves...you can send "human" minds to the probes at the speed of light....because you are sending them as light information that then gets loaded into the probe.... You wouldnt exist, a copy of your mind woudl exist. But you would still die while a copy of your thoughts and impressions existed on.

[Terran]

You wouldnt exist, a copy of your mind woudl exist. But you would still die while a copy of your thoughts and impressions existed on. What if nanomachines were used.... Inserted into the blood brain barrier.... the nano machines systematically replace each individual brain sell with a nanomachine that duplicates the function of the original brain cell while destroying it...then moving on to the next brain cell.... So after like several days/weeks/months/years eventually your brain is entirely composed of nanomachines ripe for direct transfer into data.... So the transition would be seamless.....There would never be a point where two of your consciousnous exists...

[coma]

I am 100 % certain that life (intelligent) exists in the Universe; I doubt they're flying around in spaceships ala Star Wars or Geek Trek; but most definite are intelligent and farther advanced than we. I am not 100% sure because there is no evidence yet, though it is more likely than not. If it does its likely most common in the simplest forms, virii, amoeba like creatures etc. I wish they would hurry up and find some to throw so many belief systems in total disarray What if nanomachines were used.... Inserted into the blood brain barrier.... the nano machines systematically replace each individual brain sell with a nanomachine that duplicates the function of the original brain cell while destroying it...then moving on to the next brain cell.... So after like several days/weeks/months/years eventually your brain is entirely composed of nanomachines ripe for direct transfer into data.... So the transition would be seamless.....There would never be a point where two of your consciousnous exists... If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica

[Terran]

If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica Im talking neuro science...brain chemistry here... A single...individual brain cell.... it has limited, describable functions.... The complexititys that make up human consciousnous and human behavior rest in the complex network of simple reactions in individual brain cells.... Getting drunk on a weekend kills bunches of brain cells so brain cell death happens unnoticeably all the time.... So If each invidividual brain cell was replaced with nano mechanical indentical replacements systematically we would never even notice any change....In real time...we could be awake an aware during the change Like I cant figure out how your responce has anything to do with mine...what are you talking about....? if anything the replacements would make the person more sentient...more original... self knowledge. sentience, and originality all this comes from the elaborate network of simple brain cells...and if each cell was duplicated perfectly why would it change....and what if not only they could be duplicated but improved upon...more sentient?

[DeadJonas190]

Why must life be like us in order to be life? What if there is a type of life out there that has developed under completely different circumstances that is not visable to the human eye, a type of life that exists on a different spectrum of reality that not we or our machinces can percieve. To say that life can only exists if the conditions that made us exist is very self-centric. There could be beings made of pure energy that are already here, lying dormant in our cole, until we burn them out to sacrifice them to our machines. It sounds far fetched, but something need not be sentient in order to be alive.

[Mutineer]

I am not 100% sure because there is no evidence yet, though it is more likely than not. If it does its likely most common in the simplest forms, virii, amoeba like creatures etc. I wish they would hurry up and find some to throw so many belief systems in total disarray The conventional thought is that we are the center of the Universe (Our Sun) and the idea of a more intelligent life form freaks people out. I like to think outside (Pun) of that train of thought Earth is only 4.5 billion years old; generally accepted to be true. Whereas the Universe is something like 15 billion years old. With the universe constantly expanding; it isn't too far fetched an idea that in this time; other 'Earth Like' planets have evolved over the last 10 Billion years ? I-- -------I----------------------I We all know what earth like planets are. That hypothesis alone merits attention I think. Another galaxy, a sun, a planet at a so called distance to that sun .... If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica Do Wal-Mart employees count ?

[Kaos]

And if the closest star is 100s of LIGHT years away, you can imagine how long it would take at just a fraction of that speed. The closest star system is Alpha Centauri at a little over 4 light years away. I suspect that would be our first target for an interstellar probe.

[coma]

Like I cant figure out how your responce has anything to do with mine...what are you talking about....? if anything the replacements would make the person more sentient...more original... self knowledge. sentience, and originality all this comes from the elaborate network of simple brain cells...and if each cell was duplicated perfectly why would it change....and what if not only they could be duplicated but improved upon...more sentient? I was thinking of how replacing Organic cells with Nanotechnology might work, but it is still mecanical and could maybe be only a replica. I beleive it may be the imperfections that make un unique and sentient Sometimes stuff gets me thinking, I go through all the permutations and what comes out seems related to me because thats the sum of my pondering, leaving out the mental path to that sum. Plus I think I just missed some of your points (blushes like a widdle girl) With the universe constantly expanding; it isn't too far fetched an idea that in this time; other 'Earth Like' planets have evolved over the last 10 Billion years ? Apparently they go to the "end" of the Universe and start to come back. Spectrascope/Red=Blue shift proved that some are going away from us and some towards. Do Wal-Mart employees count ? Hehe. Actually, I have never been to a Walmart. There aren't any anywhere near me, believe it or not.

[DVW5150]

Gosh , sheesh and a poot to boot , THEY ARE GREY ! GRAY ! GRAU ! geez !I am not crazy , if I were crazy I wouldnt know it ... wait does that make sense? Ahem , ok ... Lemme just say that I am missing nine hours , enough said . I am not sane , I mean I am not crazy , just touched . I hope that I can get my free pass to Area 51 ... Golly !

[Neil]

The closest star system is Alpha Centauri at a little over 4 light years away. I suspect that would be our first target for an interstellar probe. An even in the nearish future... with a journey time of at least nearly a human life time...

[capncnut]

That's an understatement. If you jumped in the space shuttle and carved a direct route to Alpha Centauri, coasting along at a speed of 27,875 km per hour, it would take about 1,500,000,000 hours to get there. Roughly 169,000 years!

[Terran]

That's an understatement. If you jumped in the space shuttle and carved a direct route to Alpha Centauri, coasting along at a speed of 27,875 km per hour, it would take about 1,500,000,000 hours to get there. Roughly 169,000 years! yeah but if in the future human "brains" are data you could upload your brain sending it at the speed of light.... So the mission would essentially work like this...a space ship is automated by robots/human remote control is sent to some distant system at the maximum speed possible...if any probelms arise along the way an astronaut could load up his mind into either a virtual console or hub so that he could have real time control of the ship.... So after 200,000 years the space ship reaches its destination and begins orbit around some planet or moon of interest....Maybe to some small moon that offers useful mineral deposits so that more structures/industry can be built... The rest could be done in a variety of ways...either biology base or computer robotic based... Biology Based: Frozen human cells are then automated by the ships computer to begin growing into fully sized "blank brain" humans. The stem cells would ideally come from some genetically engineered human that has genetic traits ideal for the mission at hand... The body is grown with a "blank brain". The final step of the human growing would be to surgically implant a bio-port into the brain that will allow transfer into/outof the brain... Once the body/bodies are grown (after 18-20 years) a message is sent back to earth. Anything from an "astronaut"/scientist/skilled laborer is then sent to the ship as information. The information is the loaded into the ships computer where it then begins the installation process into one of the grown human bodies. Robotic Based: Essentially this is the same process just instead of using grown humans "minds" are sent into advanced robots. Any given mission would likely want to use both options just to have good overlap. Maybe robots would be used first to establish some sort of ecosystem within a large structure built on some body. The robotic aspect is important because it allows the ship to avoid using or even having lifesupport on the ship. So all that would be needed is electrical power. So using techniques like this it would be possible to send "humans" places at the speed of light...(at least their minds/consciousnous). All that is required is that we travel there once first... These techniques would likely first start so that colonization of our solar system becomes way more feasible practically easy. Suddenly our whole system would erupt with our presence either with actual human bodies or robotic vessels containing our consciousnous. What would kindof happen from this is a sort of intergalatic railroad boom. Where we start sending seeding ships off in all directions and all planets so that human consciousnous can travel to any of these locations at the speed of light.....