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Thread: The Great Global Warming Swindle

  1. #61
    Feeding Tricky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellsing View Post
    i just watch the recent footage of the icecaps breaking apart, whatever your view thats happening, though you know theres some 'tard who would say its fake

    That is happening,but the documentary stated that ice breaking away there is as common as leaves falling off trees here.Nature will look after itself,even if that means getting rid of us

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtothe3 View Post
    So when you're drowning would that be a good time to go "Har har I told you so?"
    The point was, in 10 years, I won't be drowning because the planet won't be covered in water by then.

    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie
    The whole global warming/climate change has become a political animal - and it's interesting to find the sort of people who'd never trust a politician, falling arse over tit to kiss Al Gore's feet and the feet of those other politicians who follow all this doomsaying bollocks.

    ...

    It also showed how people can become idiotic sheep and just get swept up in something like this, swallow all the spin (like that so-called 2500 scientists behind the IPCC or whatever it was - memory's a bit fuzzy this morning - anyway, the fact that many of those demanded their names taken off the reports and that many others are in fact politicians or people who have absolutely no scientific background is a terrifying prospect).
    Exactly what I've been trying to say, thank you MZ. You have a much better way with words than me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky
    That is happening,but the documentary stated that ice breaking away there is as common as leaves falling off trees here.Nature will look after itself,even if that means getting rid of us
    Ahh, the voice of reason. This is something that will occur naturally, just like the ice melting off of north america long, long ago - before there were humans (so who do you blame then?).
    Last edited by LouCipherr; 09-Mar-2007 at 02:12 PM.

  3. #63
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    So, how is the great swindle debate going?


    Has anyone disproved gravity yet?
    ALWAYS BET ON DEAD!
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjfunkmasterG View Post
    Has anyone disproved gravity yet?
    Al Gore believes in Gravity, and therefore anyone who believes in Gravity is a Gore Acolyte and sycophant, so
    ipso facto
    Gravity is a hoax
    and I have some obscure documents to prove it thus!
    Up, Up and Away! ARRRRRGHGGGH

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  5. #65
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    How dare you sully the good name of gravity in connection to Al Gore's DiCaprio-ball-licking smugness!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    How dare you sully the good name of gravity in connection to Al Gore's DiCaprio-ball-licking smugness!
    I dare to go where eagles tread and speak of the love that dare not speak it's name and sh!t.
    Up, Up and Away! ARRRRRGHGGGH

    "It's better to regret something you have done, than something you haven't done. By the way, if you see your Mother, tell her I said...
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  7. #67
    Rising Terran's Avatar
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    I think its important to avoid looking at Al Gore and what he says as ammunition against Global Warming and its causes...
    He’s a politician....and his first number one concern is getting people fired up and behind him....So he will definitely use over powerful language and exaggerate the implications of it....because the more people that are scared the more they will support the candidate....

    Another example of this same phenomenon is "terrorism". Candidates beat that tune purposely to scare people ...even going as far as saying things like "If my opponent gets elected terrorists will win"....Politicians will say that we arent being attacked now because we are bringing the fight to them....but I think we all know that this is BS....If there was at least two terrorists in the USA they could unleash all sorts of havoc...all they would have to do is mimic the DC/Fairfax Sniper serial killers....and they would NEVER get caught....they could shoot people at random regularly for months on end and never get caught since the DC sniper got caught by a stroke of luck. This would have huge economic impacts if done near or in large important cities also causing public outcry and panic.

    The facts of the terrorism situation:
    1. "Terrorism" is a vague term now being applied to all sorts of behavior that is illegal. Now drug dealing, marriage fraud, kidnapping(sometimes this is terrorism mostly not), and other assorted petty crimes can be classified as terrorism. This beefs up the stats of "Terrorist acts" that our new oppressive laws have stopped. The stats are a ploy to show how we are better off with certain politician supported policies and politician supported laws and wars.
    2. "Traditional Terrorism" like bombings, kidnapping for ransom, assassinations, guerrilla action, etc globally can be considered a minority movement...and can for all practical purposes be considered mutually exclusive in that each various group has different objectives and go to different lengths to achieve them.
    3. So the amount of terrorist groups that have global intentions are even more in minority. Most "traditional terrorists" have goals directly associated with their homeland and have little interest in global gains (and since they are more domestically concerned with their own stuff even when attacked by global powers they are reluctant to attack outwards because it means a thinning of resources distributed domestically weakening their strength against other groups in their center of power.
    4. I would crudely estimate that 99% of all foreign terrorism does not threaten the USA domestically. The rest of them either threaten our regional interests in a particular area (Iraq: suddenly all combatants there are considered terrorists)…We are even starting to lump some foreign governments into the loose term “terrorist“(Iran, North Korea, etc)….

    This relatively longwinded example I just had to round out to demonstrate that the “terrorism”/”terrorist” issue is a very powerful political tool, that is often overstated and over exaggerated for political gain.


    So politicians latch onto and play the “terrorism” card in the same way that politicians will increasingly latch onto and play the “global warming/climate change” card (especially after natural disasters. Exception being earthquakes). Both of these issues existed long before politicians caused a fuss about them and its interesting to note that before politicians got a hold of these issues there was a much universal consensus amongst the experts on the issues.

    At this point you might be thinking….”Well that’s what I thought the whole time….Global Climate Change is a political crock of ****. Its just the standard politician issue-as-tool manipulation just like “terrorism” ”…


    Well the problem is there is a very significant difference that makes Global Climate Change an entirely different beast. The difference is where the rival camps agree.

    First its very important to toss out all the political verbal absolutism from people like Gore or anyone else. Toss out all the outrageous claims because reality is both more interesting and painfully more simplistic.
    The oceans wont boil.
    If the ozone remains intact the hottest the planet could get is dependent on the amount of carbon locked in our fossil fuel reserves once all this stuff was living material.
    All life on the planet will not die.

    First its important to be clear on the claims so people stop making comments about the ridiculousness of all these apocalyptic claims because I for one have not heard all the ridiculous claims and secondly I don’t want ridiculous claims weakening more certain scenarios by proxy. Some of these are just cause in a effect despite the cause.
    The Claims:
    1. Humans are the leading cause of this current rapid Global Climate Swing because of the massive amounts of CO2 emitted by Human related activity. This is exacerbated by human destruction of nature’s buffer systems (Swamp/Marshland, Rainforests, Ocean Ecosystems).
    2. A Global average Temperature will increase up to 15 degrees or more within a century .
    3. 15 degree global temperature increase would cause Glaciers and Pole Ice to either melt entirely or nearly entirely before freezing begins again in a more distant future.
    4. Glacier melting and pole ice melting will drastically effect ocean currents, temperature, and chemistry. Altering weather patterns.
    5. Altered weather patterns are directly linked to agriculture. Temperature by region will be entirely different than it is today. Practically all places on the globe will change in weather some will become polar opposites of what they are today. Any combination of precipitation soaked/humid/dry coupled with any combination of temperature cold/warm/hot.
    6. Agriculture globally will be hit extremely hard causing a global famine. Some places will be hit harder than others causing huge diplomatic tensions.
    7. Mass extinction comparable to all other mass extinctions in history caused by rapid global climate swings.



    I think these are all the claims made by the majority of scientists.


    If the only problem is Global Climate Change the Human race will likely survive but would suffer huge causalities and massive societal restructuring (exception being that if problems caused by Global Climate Change triggers a nuclear war). We are adaptable and capable of hunting and eating many types of things so even a mass extinction would leave us with many things to eat but would support a much much smaller population.


    Its important to note now.…:
    The vast majority of all scientists believe that humans are causing global climate change.
    The next majority, while in the context of the scientific community is still a huge minority, believe that global climate change is happening from some unnamed natural processes(even natural processes have a "cause")...

    Note: That both these groups accept what they would consider a "fact"....that rapid Global climate is occurring .... So these groups only disagree on Claim 1. The minority group may bring up all sorts of reasons why humans are not the cause but if they acknowledge that rapid global climate change is occurring, despite the cause, they too support the rest of the claims just by cause and effect.

    So if camp “Human Caused” is correct mankind will have to develop technologies to reduce our damage while developing technologies or practices to repair damages because the current 100 year scenario will happen even if we stop emitting CO2. Also technologies to cope with agricultural reshuffling would have to be developed if humans cannot undo damage in a shorter 100 year timetable. We would have to do all that to avoid or reduce a global catastrophe.

    If camp “Natural Caused” is correct mankind will have to develop technologies to reverse a natural rapid global climate trend. Or they will have to develop technologies that produce food on a massive scale regardless of the outside conditions. (The fact that many in this camp feel humans overestimate their ability to make an impact on global environment is discouraging towards hoping to avoid a global catastrophe).


    Then there is a massively small group of scientists that believe global climate change is not occurring at all or on a much slower scale despite the overwhelming volumes of evidence to the contrary.....Usually these people have unspecialized degrees where it relates to global climate or are religiously motivated...earth is here for man’s use type thing….and generally they have ruined their reputations because their "evidence" is usually either directly refuted by all areas of interest or is considered pseudo science at best...(So these people aren’t worth mentioning generally)


    Ug...I hope the current last page doesnt change soon...because then even less people will read all this...I already know most wont want to read through all this in the first place...let alone go a page backwards to read it...
    Last edited by Terran; 11-Mar-2007 at 04:37 AM.
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  8. #68
    Feeding Tricky's Avatar
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    Sorry terran,just had to post this (taken from another source) but everyone who reads this,go back and read terrans post as well,its only fair

    "Daffodils are on sale in some of our shops unseasonably early. Such evidence that spring seems to be arriving before winter has departed, along with excessively hot summer temperatures, has convinced many that global warming is well under way.

    Unease that something funny is happening to the weather is reinforced by constant reports claiming imminent environmental doom, such as the article in Nature magazine last week claiming global warming will cause more than one million species to die out over the next fifty years.

    In another article in the journal Science the government’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, claims global warming is an even more serious threat to the world than terrorism. He maintains that the ten hottest years on record started in 1991, that global warming is causing the ice caps to melt and the seas to rise, and that mankind’s activities in producing carbon dioxide have been proved to be the cause.

    With all due respect to Sir David’s eminence, every one of these claims is utter garbage. What science actually tells us is that we just don’t know whether global warming is happening and, if it is, why. Much of the research behind this theory is specious, anti-historical and scientifically illiterate. If the world’s climate is indeed warming up beyond normal patterns, this could be due to natural reasons rather than the actions of mankind.

    It is not true that the seas are generally rising. Some are; some aren’t. The claim is based on the atypical North Atlantic, ignoring the seas around Australia where levels have remained pretty static. Indeed, around parts of New Zealand and elsewhere they are falling.

    What’s more, there’s no correlation between rises in climate temperature and sea levels. During the ‘Little Ice Age’ in the Middle Ages, sea levels rose; and between 1900 and 1940, when temperatures rose, sea levels actually dropped.

    The ice-caps tell a similar story. Some are melting; some are not. The Larsen ice shelf in the Antarctic is breaking up, but most of the Antarctic ice is increasing.

    Then there’s the claim that the climate is now the hottest on record. But this statistical record only goes back a few centuries, if that. Yet there’s plenty of other evidence that the climate in Europe was warmer than now by at least 2 degrees in 1100, when vines grew in Northumberland and farmers settled in Greenland. Since this was followed by the Little Ice Age which lasted until about 1880, it’s hardly surprising - and surely a cause for rejoicing - that since then the climate has warmed up by about 0.6 degrees, well within normal patterns.

    As for the presumed villain of the piece carbon dioxide, this makes up such a tiny fraction of the atmosphere that even if it doubled it would make little difference to the climate. And like sea levels, it doesn’t correlate with climate change. Historically, it has increased hundreds of years after the climate has warmed up. Between 1940 and 1975, when industrial activity - which produces carbon dioxide -rose rapidly, the climate actually cooled.

    Far from being proved, the claim of man-made global warming is a global fraud. Instead of being drawn from observable facts, it is based on computer modelling which churns out wholly artificial - and eminently manipulable - visions of the world.

    Computers can only process the information fed into them. This is an inadequate procedure, not least because climate change is affected by billions of variables which are beyond any computer programme. The sea level ‘rise’, for instance, omits the full influence of certain crucial natural meteorological changes. And if the disaster scenarios of global warming are fed into the computer as a premise, it is hardly surprising that it will then ‘predict’ the disappearance of species as a consequence.

    In other words, if you feed rubbish into a computer, you get rubbish out.

    The claim that there’s a scientific consensus behind global warming is also utterly bogus. In 1992, more than 40 atmospheric scientists said the theory was highly uncertain and warned against using theoretical climate models which they said were not supported by existing records.

    In 1997, dozens of meteorologists, geologists, atmospheric scientists and other experts said global warming was based solely on unproven scientific theories and imperfect computer models.

    In 1998, 18,000 scientists signed the Oregon petition which again criticised this ‘flawed’ research, said historic evidence showed that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide was environmentally helpful, and predicted that the 1997 Kyoto agreement to reduce industrial emissions would keep the developing world trapped in poverty.

    One of the world’s most eminent meteorologists, Professor Richard Lindzen, has also protested that while the science behind the Kyoto protocol was suitably equivocal about global warming, the document’s highly politicised summary - the part actually being used to force reduced industrial activity onto the western world - was written instead by government representatives, who had conjured up ’scary scenarios for which there is no evidence’.

    Indeed, global warming has little to do with science and everything to do with politics. Those scientists who endorse the theory command the lion’s share of government-funded research grants. Since the global warming prediction emerged in the late 1980s, climate science funding has gone through the roof.

    Scientists know, however, that they won’t get funded unless their research confirms global warming. Too many enormous reputations would go down the plug otherwise; too many political agendas depend on the theory. So global warming has become big business.

    This is ironic. For it is yet another variation of left-wing, anti-American, anti-west ideology which goes hand in hand with anti-globalisation and the belief that everything done by the industrialised world is wicked. The agenda to cripple this world is revealed by highly questionable assumptions made by climate modellers about likely developments in economics, technology or population movements, which affect emissions and consequent temperature predictions.

    As the Economist recently pointed out, they assume growth rates that are beyond any historical experience, resulting in predictions of a bizarre economic future in which the United States stops growing and developing nations overtake the industrialised world. But that reversal of fortune is, of course, precisely the objective.

    And if anyone objects, they are demonised. As Professor Lindzen has protested, science is now being used ‘as a source of authority with which to bludgeon political opponents and propagandize uninformed citizens’.

    Dr Bjorn Lomborg, the Danish statistician who became famous for his book ‘The Sceptical Environmentalist’, paid a heavy price for pointing out that richer countries were cleaner countries, and observing that the costs of implementing the Kyoto protocol for less than one year would provide clean water for every human being on Earth.

    For his demolition of the environmental scam, he was vilified across the globe and accused by a Danish scientific committee of ‘dishonesty’ - a disgraceful verdict that has now been demolished by a superior committee that tore into Dr Lomborg’s inquisitors for intellectual inadequacy.

    The claim of man-made global warming represents the descent of science from the pursuit of truth into politicised propaganda. The fact that it is endorsed by the top scientist in the British government shows how deep this rot has gone. "

  9. #69
    Team Rick MinionZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coma View Post
    I dare to go where eagles tread and speak of the love that dare not speak it's name and sh!t.
    F*ckin' ewww, dude ... f*ckin' ewww.

    I'd say this year's Gore-boning speeches were, er, this year's Bowling For Columbine speech - sickening and so bloody smug ... sadly, the band didn't play them off early.

    They might as well have just pulled out Gore's own Vice President and just started chowing down right there on the stage ... Man-Bear-Pig has never been more real.

    *awaits snappy little one sentence hit & run from hellsing *

  10. #70
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    must...fight ...the urge...must ...resist....



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  11. #71
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    Back on topic, and just for the sake of it, I'll officially state my allegience to The Sun (no, not the boobie-filled-tabloid), that massively violent ball of fire that heats us and determines our climate.

  12. #72
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    *the sun in orbit realises hes claimed another soul..."good...goood"...*


  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinionZombie View Post
    Back on topic, and just for the sake of it, I'll officially state my allegience to The Sun (no, not the boobie-filled-tabloid), that massively violent ball of fire that heats us and determines our climate.
    Dude, the sun is GHAY
    Powned!
    Up, Up and Away! ARRRRRGHGGGH

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  14. #74
    certified super rad Danny's Avatar
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    your moms the sun!, pwnage!

    just a thought though, how many peopel here have seen an inconvinient truth anwya?


  15. #75
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    I haven't seen it yet, but no doubt it's as retarded as the rest of the highly politicised, doomsaying, "the human race is the biggest and most powerful thing in the whole f*cking universe, so BUY MY DVD ABOUT THE LATEST FAD", only looking at the information it finds best suited to it's already pre-determined message whilst simultaneously spoodging all over itself and rubbing it in to make itself more appealing to passing-fad-followers who think Fahrenheit 9/11 is nothing but the truth...

    All that needs doing is:

    1) Don't waste
    2) Become more efficient and continue in that direction
    3) Wait and see what the sun does next

    If it wasn't for the sun, the Earth would be totally f*cked, life wouldn't survive without the sun - that much power blatantly dictates that the sun controls our climate!

    Yes I'm pissed off, big whoop, wanna fide-aboud-id?

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