Argento's cut of Dawn '78 just bothers me.

[Zombill]

I finally after all these years got to watch Argento's cut and I didn't like it whatsoever, I'm to use to the Theatre version that Romero cut for it, left out some of my favorite scenes like the helicopter zombie, and the score with goblin that was insane, I much prefer the dewolfe library cues, there wasn't much characterazation either in argento's cut, I mean why would he rob us of the first truck deployment at the mall and the fake cops at the police dock.

I'm sorry for all you Argento fans but give me my Gonk any day over Goblins Rock.

[capncnut]

I'm sorry for all you Argento fans but give me my Gonk any day over Goblins Rock.
Why be sorry? Argento's misshapen version of the film, with it's baffling edits and relentless Goblin soundtrack, irritates 99.9 percent of the forum. The guy totally missed the point.

[axlish]

Argento's cut is a darker toned action horror piece. I like it least out of the three official cuts but I still love it as it features scenes that aren't included in others. It certainly lacks over the US cuts but I see no need to bash it at all.

[DubiousComforts]

I'm sorry for all you Argento fans but give me my Gonk any day over Goblins Rock.
With a bit of re-wording, you've got yourself a best-selling T-shirt.

[Mike70]

Argento's cut is a darker toned action horror piece. I like it least out of the three official cuts but I still love it as it features scenes that aren't included in others. It certainly lacks over the US cuts but I see no need to bash it at all.

ditto here. it isn't up to par with the other two versions but it has its moments and i really like being able to see the scenes/lines that romero decided not to use in his edit.

i particularly like the part where peter is asking steven if he could "kill" fran if she turned. i like argento's cut of that particular scene much better than romero's. there's no doubt (to me at least) that romero's cut of the movie is better but there are parts of argento's (like the scene i was just talking about) that shine.

i would agree that the music is a bit much at times.

[bassman]

Like most, I think it's the least of all the edits. Worth giving a few viewings for the alternate scenes, though...

[Moon Knight]

ditto here. it isn't up to par with the other two versions but it has its moments and i really like being able to see the scenes/lines that romero decided not to use in his edit.

i particularly like the part where peter is asking steven if he could "kill" fran if she turned. i like argento's cut of that particular scene much better than romero's. there's no doubt (to me at least) that romero's cut of the movie is better but there are parts of argento's (like the scene i was just talking about) that shine.

i would agree that the music is a bit much at times.

Whoa, I just saw this version again, where did that dialogue take place?

Perhaps I missed it cause I had the commentary track on. :p

[clanglee]

there is one scene that argento did much better. in the tenement builing when the soldiers break down the barrier and the zombies come pouring out, the romero cut never made sense to me. the soldier hits a board inwards and then all of a sudden, arms are shooting out. The argento cut shows the whole sequence, it makes sense, and it still doesn't lose the jump scare.

I also like the extra scenes in the argento version. . . .but on the whole. . .the Romero cut is much better.

[DubiousComforts]

Whoa, I just saw this version again, where did that dialogue take place?
Right after their first raid on the mall when Stephen discloses that Fran is pregnant.

[Mike70]

Whoa, I just saw this version again, where did that dialogue take place?

Perhaps I missed it cause I had the commentary track on. :p

it happens when they return from the first raid into the mall. steven starts to talk about how crazy things are getting that whole scene is cut differently in argento's version.

i am gonna pop it in my computer right after i finish this post to make sure i;m getting it right.

[DubiousComforts]

i am gonna pop it in my computer right after i finish this post to make sure im getting it right.
You're correct. This scene has additional dialog in Argento's version. Stephen says something like, "If people could just do what needs to be done" and Peter responds, "Let's say the lady gets bit. You gonna chop off her head?"

[Mike70]

moonknight - the difference starts at time sig 50:36 when steve says " i know GON is out by now. that place was a madhouse."

[axlish]

You could almost title it the "Peter is pissed cut".

[Yojimbo]

there is one scene that argento did much better. in the tenement builing when the soldiers break down the barrier and the zombies come pouring out, the romero cut never made sense to me. the soldier hits a board inwards and then all of a sudden, arms are shooting out. The argento cut shows the whole sequence, it makes sense, and it still doesn't lose the jump scare.

I also like the extra scenes in the argento version. . . .but on the whole. . .the Romero cut is much better.

Agree with Clang about the basement scene with the pause after the boards are knocked in. I had previously seen that scene only on Document of the Dead, including some of the other things that had been deleted for the theatrical version. But as a fan, I do like the Euro cut for the extended and additional scenes, but then again too I would watch DAWN outtakes if they existed (and I usually detest outtakes) deleted scenes (which I also usually hate) and the like.

But I absolutely hate Argento's choice of score for the Euro Cut!

[Moon Knight]

moonknight - the difference starts at time sig 50:36 when steve says " i know GON is out by now. that place was a madhouse."

Thanks, guys! gonna go check the DVD now!:D

[Griff]

there is one scene that argento did much better. in the tenement builing when the soldiers break down the barrier and the zombies come pouring out, the romero cut never made sense to me. the soldier hits a board inwards and then all of a sudden, arms are shooting out. The argento cut shows the whole sequence, it makes sense, and it still doesn't lose the jump scare.

Actually, I'd say its the opposite. It wouldn't make sense for the soldiers to be standing there, looking straight through the holes in the barrier and NOT see the rush of zombies coming at them. No doubt that's why Romero ultimately chose to tighten that sequence up.

[clanglee]

NoNo, the board is knocked foward, not left or right. . so it's still there in front of them. . then it magically disappears so that the zombies can all reach foward. it makes no physical sense.

[Zombill]

I wonder has there ever been a fan edit or fan cut made that includes every fricking scene that all the different cuts had??????

[bassman]

I wonder has there ever been a fan edit or fan cut made that includes every fricking scene that all the different cuts had??????

I've heard of it, but I think it's hard to get...

[Mike70]

I wonder has there ever been a fan edit or fan cut made that includes every fricking scene that all the different cuts had??????

yes it runs at about 156 minutes.

[MikePizzoff]

Argento's cut is a darker toned action horror piece. I like it least out of the three official cuts but I still love it as it features scenes that aren't included in others. It certainly lacks over the US cuts but I see no need to bash it at all.

My thoughts, exactly.

I think it's still enjoyable to watch, if not only for the fact that it's an alternate version to my favorite, and most-watched, film of all time!

[Griff]

NoNo, the board is knocked foward, not left or right. . so it's still there in front of them. . then it magically disappears so that the zombies can all reach foward. it makes no physical sense.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the board falling this way or that. If you're referring to some sorta editing gaffe, that's fine, but I don't regard that as being as important as dramatic effect. My point is that having the SWAT guys gawking for 30 seconds and to not see the zombies coming was just plain goofy and actually worked against the 'sting' of the arms coming through the boards. It was much more impactful to have them knock the board down, not realizing there was a mass of zombies behind there, only to have those arms thrust through immediately and for all hell to break loose. I can appreciate with what Romero was trying to do originally but I have to agree with his decision to eventually tighten that section up.

[clanglee]

it has ALWAYS bugged the crap out of me. the logistigs of it are all off. The first time I saw the Argento version I was like. . OOOOOOhhhhhh. . .now that makes sense!! I get the jump scare with the romero cut, but with the argento cut i get a smaller jump scare, with a little more tension, and a lot more logistical sense. It appeals to that silly rational side.

[Griff]

The silly rational side that says its okay for the SWAT guys to somehow not see the zombies that are directly infront of them? I don't think its logistical at all. If anything the logistics of the scenario are deliberately convoluted to accommodate the 'scare'. But oh well, you have it your way and I'll have it mine, I guess.

[Zombill]

yes it runs at about 156 minutes.I've been reading about that and its called the krekal cut and its suppose to only be in german, is it possible to get the same 156 minute cut in an english soundtrack????

[DJEvelEd]

Any still pictures of Fran getting killed by the helicopter?

I also noticed on the superspecial Dawn DVD, Fran is pictured as a zombie. Sure looks like her even if it's not!

[Griff]

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[clanglee]

The silly rational side that says its okay for the SWAT guys to somehow not see the zombies that are directly infront of them? I don't think its logistical at all. If anything the logistics of the scenario are deliberately convoluted to accommodate the 'scare'. But oh well, you have it your way and I'll have it mine, I guess.

one last bit. . . the thing that bugs me is how exactly the zombies could be right in front of them? if they knock down that large board, it falls towards the zombies. the zombies would prop it up with their bodies. It could not fall out of the way, so no sudden reaching. It's like opening a door with someone standing right behind it, it wouldn't budge without some effort. without the pause for the board to fall out of the way and the soldiers to peer through the clearing dust (which is how they couldn't see the zombies) we have basic laws of physics being broken.

[ProfessorChaos]

Any still pictures of Fran getting killed by the helicopter?

I also noticed on the superspecial Dawn DVD, Fran is pictured as a zombie. Sure looks like her even if it's not!

if you're referring to the ultimate edition, i think that is a pic of savini's at-the-time girlfriend who was the ghoul that attacked roger in the truck (the one peter shot, which covered roger's face in blood).

[Griff]

one last bit. . . the thing that bugs me is how exactly the zombies could be right in front of them? if they knock down that large board, it falls towards the zombies. the zombies would prop it up with their bodies. It could not fall out of the way, so no sudden reaching. It's like opening a door with someone standing right behind it, it wouldn't budge without some effort. without the pause for the board to fall out of the way and the soldiers to peer through the clearing dust (which is how they couldn't see the zombies) we have basic laws of physics being broken.

If things were that tight that a 1 inch thick board couldn't slide down, I doubt the zombs would even be able to get their arms up.

Anyway, Romero's on my side and Argento is on yours - and one is less noted for their logic than the other!

[MikePizzoff]

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This definitely needs it's own thread. Great find!!!

[DjfunkmasterG]

I am not a huge fan of Argento's cut either. I think he does over use the Goblin tracks a bit, however, some of the scenes he re-cut make a little more sense.

[kidgloves]

I am not a huge fan of Argento's cut either. I think he does over use the Goblin tracks a bit, however, some of the scenes he re-cut make a little more sense.

Agreed.

I had a quick flick through this cut the other night and there is definately some merit to the way Argento cut some scenes.
At the beginning when the SWAT team storm the projects and that young guy shoots himself in the head, the whole scene is longer and better imo
The execution scene in the projects basement is extended a bit. You see Roger pumping a few more rounds into the zombies from his POV and it has more emotional impact the way its cut.
One small but effective bit that really stands out for me is when Peter and Roger are trying to shut the sliding doors in the mall and Roger is picking off the zombies from a distance. Roger shoots one of the zombies in the chest and it crumbles to the floor. It then cuts to Roger taking it out with a headshot as they creature lays on the floor. Simple but very effective.

[Griff]

Argento really didn't have a hand in doing any shot-by-shot editing.

Romero essentially gave him a very early cut of DAWN (the ~3 hour one that he mentions in DOCUMENT, perhaps?) and Argento simply removed whatever scenes and/or sequences that weren't to his liking, prior to laying over his own sound effects and scoring.

Meanwhile, Romero himself was whittling away at that same cut, the Cannes version being a work in progress and, finally, the theatrical version being the end result.

[kidgloves]

Thanks for that Griff. I've often wondered what sort of print Argento was given. So his cut is essentially a trim rather than a re-edit?

[Griff]

Thanks for that Griff. I've often wondered what sort of print Argento was given. So his cut is essentially a trim rather than a re-edit?

That's what I believe. Obviously he's made a few tweaks and alterations here and there, both large and small, but I could never accept that was using anything other than a pre-assembled version of the film that Romero had edited himself.

Incidentally, its quite possible that the version Argento was working with was also the same cut that Roy Frumkes was given access to for his DOCUMENT OF THE DEAD since they both share at least one exclusive similarity (e.g. the extended 501 barricade sequence). Wouldn't it be cool if Roy forgot to give that print back and still had it sitting in his basement somewhere...

[clanglee]

If things were that tight that a 1 inch thick board couldn't slide down, I doubt the zombs would even be able to get their arms up.

Sigh, if you choose not to see the logical mistake in Romero's cut, and there is nothing I can do to convince you of the simple fact that Argento's cut (while kinda crap otherwise) makes more sense in that one scene, then we are at an impasse.


Anyway, Romero's on my side and Argento is on yours - and one is less noted for their logic than the other!

:stunned: Surely you aren't suggesting that the creator of a movie that features, an intelligent monkey protecting a young girl with the power to control insects from a psycho killer, illogical?!?!?:D

[Neil]

I seem to remember prefering the Goblin music in the basement scene. Just a bass beating away, with Peter shooting the creatures...?