Heat on Armored Vehicles

[SRP76]

Looking through countless threads for and against the Dawn remake, one thing stands out:

The part where our heroes cobble together supplies and refit the parking shuttles in preparation for running the zombie gauntlet is almost universally hated, bth by people who like and dislike the movie.

My big question is: why? This never made a lot of sense to me.

Put yourself in the situation: you are going to charge across a city filled with ghouls. You have both a vehicle, and the means to armor it. Why the hell wouldn't you reinforce the vehicle?! It just makes no sense not to.

Failing to do it would be suicidal. So, why the problem with it?

[Mike70]

i have always wondered why people had a problem with this too. seems to me that it one of the few parts of this movie that make sense.

if you choose to attempt a breakout from the mall, it seems perfectly reasonable that you would take every measure and use every means in protecting yourself. armoring/reinforcing the vehicles that you intend to use makes perfect sense. you would at least have to prevent the zombies from getting at the windows. lowering their center of gravity would make sense too (i don't think they did this in the movie though) to make it harder to flip the vehicle over.

the real thing i wonder about is why they didn't firebomb the whole area in front of their point of exit before they opened the doors to make getting out and building up some speed easier.

[Zombill]

the real thing i wonder about is why they didn't firebomb the whole area in front of their point of exit before they opened the doors to make getting out and building up some speed easier.

Well if Andy hadn't gotten bit, and stupid nicole hadn't raced over there to save the dog that would've been ok to begin with, the group wouldn't have run over then to save nicole and load up they would have had more time to have planned leaving better and that firebomb idea of yours probably would have come up from CJ the security dude, but needless to say when they got back from their suicidal rescue operation they couldn't keep the ghouls from getting in the mall cause there was to many at that dam staircase door, so basically out of options they had to leave then

[Choas]

I don't like the bues becuse,I think they'll a cheap rip off of Dead Reckoning from land.

[Legion2213]

I don't like the bues becuse,I think they'll a cheap rip off of Dead Reckoning from land.

Even though Dawn 04 was released over 12 months before Land....right? :rockbrow:

If you are being sarcastic, I apologise.

[Choas]

Even though Dawn 04 was released over 12 months before Land....right? :rockbrow:

If you are being sarcastic, I apologise.



But the script for land was out long before the dawn remake was ever made.

[Legion2213]

But the script for land was out long before the dawn remake was ever made.

It still doesn't make sense, you are saying (in effect) that the last 2/3rds of Dawn 04 was entirely written or re-written to accomodate a few minutes of cheap Dead Reckoning footage. I mean seriously, how do you think the makers of 04 originally immagined their group escaping the mall to get to the boat? by hand glider, push bike maybe?

As others have said, if you, me or anybody else was in that situation with only shuttles available to escape, but some hardware to beef them up, the logical and rational thing to do would be to put as much armour on them as possible wouldn't it?

[Choas]

It still doesn't make sense, you are saying (in effect) that the last 2/3rds of Dawn 04 was entirely written or re-written to accomodate a few minutes of cheap Dead Reckoning footage. I mean seriously, how do you think the makers of 04 originally immagined their group escaping the mall to get to the boat? by hand glider, push bike maybe?

As others have said, if you, me or anybody else was in that situation with only shuttles available to escape, but some hardware to beef them up, the logical and rational thing to do would be to put as much armour on them as possible wouldn't it?

I'am not saying I wouldn't reinforce the buses.I'am just saying I think the buses themself are rip offs.

[Legion2213]

Possibly, and maybe "Dead Reckoning" was a rip off of the "Landmaster" vehicle from the 1977 movie "Damnation Alley..."

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8349/landypl6.jpg

Anyways, I disagree, as I have seen no evidence of this...it's all about opinions I suppose.

[Choas]

If you watch the extras on the dvd,Gar himself talks about writing the script for land just after 9/11.

[Mike70]

Possibly, and maybe "Dead Reckoning" was a rip off of the "Landmaster" vehicle from the 1977 movie "Damnation Alley..."

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8349/landypl6.jpg

Anyways, I disagree, as I have seen no evidence of this...it's all about opinions I suppose.



damnation alley - word dude. loved that movie as a kid.

i see no real connection between the buses and dead reckoning. just because a script was written for land after 9/11, it doesn't logically follow that the makers of the dawn remake either saw it or consciously modeled the buses after dead reckoning. i think this might be case of making a connection where one really doesn't exist.

legion is right - if you follow this line of arguement, then you could make the assertion romero ripped off the idea for dead reckoning from damnation alley. a movie that is about 30 years old and one that romero is probably familiar with.

oh and legion - a hang glider escape from the mall would've been the most boss escape in any movie ever.


Well if Andy hadn't gotten bit, and stupid nicole hadn't raced over there to save the dog that would've been ok to begin with, the group wouldn't have run over then to save nicole and load up they would have had more time to have planned leaving better and that firebomb idea of yours probably would have come up from CJ the security dude, but needless to say when they got back from their suicidal rescue operation they couldn't keep the ghouls from getting in the mall cause there was to many at that dam staircase door, so basically out of options they had to leave then

you are correct. i will be the first to admit that the dawn remake isn't one of my fav dead movies and is one that, while i've seen it a couple of times, isn't one that i go back to on a regular basis.

the zombie rampage through the mall would've made it kinda hard to get up on the roof.

[clanglee]

Well, I never had a problem with the bus escape. I think most people really just disliked the kinda goofy montage scene.

[Trin]

I think it was a bit too A-Team for some, but personally the idea of the armored busses was fine with me.

My bigger problem was the whole idea behind leaving the mall to go find a boat in the first place.

I also hated the whole chainsaw out the side side idea. Anyone who has used a chainsaw knows you'd be better just chopping your own leg off and getting it over with than trying to fight a zombie with one.

[p2501]

i dunno. like scip said it's one of the few bits of that movie that worked. and was perhaps the only real intelligent thing that the script gave us in it's latter half.

[bassman]

The reason for leaving the mall never sat right wiht me. Also the montage of them getting the buses ready was pretty cheap. BTW, I've never seen a mall carry some of the supplies that they use on those buses:rockbrow:....

[DjfunkmasterG]

If you watch the extras on the dvd,Gar himself talks about writing the script for land just after 9/11.

However... You do know there was a James Gunn Draft of Dawn as early as Jan-Feb 2002. GAR's Land script didn't start making its rounds until 2003 and that was after the DAWN remake was greenlit.


The reason for leaving the mall never sat right wiht me. Also the montage of them getting the buses ready was pretty cheap. BTW, I've never seen a mall carry some of the supplies that they use on those buses:rockbrow:....

I agree their reasoning for leaving the mall was flawed. However, re-enforcing the busses was needed. Even if they didn't leave the mall that moment, you know eventually it would have had to occur.

[AcesandEights]

I thought the overall idea: the necessity to make the vehicles at hand capable of safely traversing a landscape transformed by the civilization-blasting effect of an undead plague, made more than enough sense.

A lot of the equipment used in the process, despite previous protests to the contrary, could be found in a large mall, especially the vehicle bays of an all-purpose anchor store that might offer auto repair and service (think Sears). I couldn't find a list of the stores in the Dawn remake mall. Admittedly, I haven't tried too hard.

I never really had a problem with the montage, however, its presence definitely pushes the film deeper into the action-popcorn genre and detracts from any sense of seriousness.

[Mike70]

I couldn't find a list of the stores in the Dawn remake mall. Admittedly, I haven't tried too hard.

maybe the reason for that is the mall used to film the dawn remake was the old thornhill mall in suburban toronto. it was demolished shortly after filming and has been replaced by the ultra modern promenade mall.

[EDukes]

BTW, I've never seen a mall carry some of the supplies that they use on those buses:rockbrow:....

The Mall would still have a maintenace area where janitoral supplies and hardware for everyday repairs to the mall (for handyman jobs such as replacing benches, lights, etc). Plus, in most Malls there always seem to be at least one store lot that is either undergoing extensive remodeling, or construction.

On the other hand though, I've never seen Mall security guards carry firearms. Since the movie didn't bother wanting to explain where the guns came from, I doubt they'd want to waste time explaining the tools.

[Publius]

On the other hand though, I've never seen Mall security guards carry firearms. Since the movie didn't bother wanting to explain where the guns came from, I doubt they'd want to waste time explaining the tools.

Pretty sure I've seen a few armed guards at shopping malls before, but they are usually unarmed. One of the malls near where I live has a police substation right in the mall.

[SBEADER]

I cant figure how they didnt use some stuff in the stores like rc toys and helium ballons to send Andy some food ,and get themselves some needed supplies from his shop.

[AcesandEights]

I cant figure how they didnt use some stuff in the stores like rc toys and helium ballons to send Andy some food ,and get themselves some needed supplies from his shop.

I know! I've been saying the same thing for years. How about using a guidebook or atlas from the book store to really figure out whether there's islands out there instead of just speculating!? Maybe they decided to do that after the fact, but that just bothered me. Well, that and not sending an RC chopper with a cut of brisket over to poor Andy.

But, I just tend to let that stuff slide a little, as the final third of the film has a lot of these little errors. I still enjoy it quite a bit, though.

[Legion2213]

I cant figure how they didnt use some stuff in the stores like rc toys and helium ballons to send Andy some food ,and get themselves some needed supplies from his shop.


That my friend, is excellent thinking. :cool:

[SBEADER]

Were theres a will theres a way lol.

[Neil]

the real thing i wonder about is why they didn't firebomb the whole area in front of their point of exit before they opened the doors to make getting out and building up some speed easier.


Firebomb usually use glass? They'd have to think of a way without using that!

[jim102016]

I cant figure how they didnt use some stuff in the stores like rc toys and helium ballons to send Andy some food ,and get themselves some needed supplies from his shop.

Sounds like they needed MacGyver!

[Redman6565]

I don't like the bues becuse,I think they'll a cheap rip off of Dead Reckoning from land.

Oh my god. I hope that was a joke.


I cant figure how they didnt use some stuff in the stores like rc toys and helium ballons to send Andy some food ,and get themselves some needed supplies from his shop.

They used the dog. It worked fine untill a zombie got inside the door and got Andy. 'rc toys and helium ballons' are you serious? Gee why didn't they tie some machine guns on the chopper in the original Dawn and kill all those bikers before they could get into the mall. :lol:


Sounds like they needed MacGyver!

hahahahahaha damn that's the show I was thinking of. hahahahaha That's so funny. :hyper::lol:

[SBEADER]

helium party ballons and a rc helicpter or 2 secured to a cooler would get 50 pounds back and forth the 1500 yards from the mall to the store easily.A preist in south america tied a bunch on a lawn chair 2 months ago and got at least a few hundred miles.As to mounting guns on a helicopter in the original dawn they had little fuel and really nothing worth mounting.Utilizing the trucks as weapons would have been a much better idea or better yet useing one of the bulldozers in the truck depo.Guns would only be used as PDWs ,heavy equipment and baiting into trap areas would be the only logical way large numbers of zombies could be eradicated.

[Redman6565]

helium party ballons and a rc helicpter or 2 secured to a cooler would get 50 pounds back and forth the 1500 yards from the mall to the store easily.A preist in south america tied a bunch on a lawn chair 2 months ago and got at least a few hundred miles.As to mounting guns on a helicopter in the original dawn they had little fuel and really nothing worth mounting.Utilizing the trucks as weapons would have been a much better idea or better yet useing one of the bulldozers in the truck depo.Guns would only be used as PDWs ,heavy equipment and baiting into trap areas would be the only logical way large numbers of zombies could be eradicated.


You're thinking with the GAR zombies coming at you not the Dawn '04 zombies. A bulldozer would be over run by these things. You wouldn't last 3 seconds. By the way, while everyone is talking helium ballons and rc helicopters, who was going to drive this buldozer? This isn't something that you jump in and take off with. Also, fliying an rc helicopter isn't as easy as adding a freash battery or nitro and up you go. Go fork over a few $100 and you'll see what I'm talking about. You may think these things are toys and take nothing to get up and going, that just isn't the case. What the people in the movie did was what they could do. As far as leaving the mall for an island, why not? Maybe they saw the original Dawn. lol

I still say the way to kill large numbers of zombies would be with one of the larges now plow trucks. If you can drive it. Wow that'd be fun. Now that would be the person to keep a live, the guy that can drive the plow truck.

[SBEADER]

Bulldozers at least cat versions are armoured,they have a safety cage and 2 inch lexan windows plus remesh cage over the windows. The rc helicopter/blimp is a 5th grade project at most the only challenging part would be amplifing the rc signal wich would require 15 minutes with a soldering gun and 2 or 3 walkie talkies to drop along the way to use as a signal relay net if the cell system was down.A couple of passes thru the mall parking lot would be all she wrote for the 10 to 20 thousand zombies in the parking lot.A truck could be flipped over or literaly stoped in its tracks by enough people a 49 ton steel tracked dozer isnt going to have that problem inertia and gravity would see to that.

[Redman6565]

Bulldozers at least cat versions are armoured,they have a safety cage and 2 inch lexan windows plus remesh cage over the windows. The rc helicopter/blimp is a 5th grade project at most the only challenging part would be amplifing the rc signal wich would require 15 minutes with a soldering gun and 2 or 3 walkie talkies to drop along the way to use as a signal relay net if the cell system was down.A couple of passes thru the mall parking lot would be all she wrote for the 10 to 20 thousand zombies in the parking lot.A truck could be flipped over or literaly stoped in its tracks by enough people a 49 ton steel tracked dozer isnt going to have that problem inertia and gravity would see to that.

Having been around rc for 20 +years you are way wrong on flying and rc helicopter. A couple of passes in the parking garage and you'd have it spun out into the wall and trashed. Also, your walkie talkies wouldn't work as well you are talking about an rc model that has several channels to operate several functions. As for the busses, the zombies were starting to roll the busses and if you watch the movie again you may figure out why they didn't. Dawn '04 was a fantastic movie I am sorry you didn't get it. I like the bulldozer idea with the closed cage but again you have to know how to drive it and need fule to keep it going. A dozer would get less MPG than the busses and MAYBE there was no diesel fule to to keep it running. Can't fit as many people on it either. The bus thing made perfect sense if you think it through. If you want to pick Dawn apart try going back to GAR's Dawn and see how easy you pick it apart. One problem I have with GAR's is why does their heads spray blood if they are dead? Is that just for simple gore and shock value?

[SBEADER]

40 channel walkie talkies would do just fine.As for parking garages i dont think there is any on the way from the malls roof to andys roof in the film it looks like a straight 1500 yards across the parking lot to andys not even any powerlines in the way.An rc unit receives one channel and sends diffrent channels via wire to each diffrent servo unless your using rc parts from circa 1970s and in that case the 40 channel walkies would still work just fine to extend your range.

[Redman6565]

40 channel walkie talkies would do just fine.As for parking garages i dont think there is any on the way from the malls roof to andys roof in the film it looks like a straight 1500 yards across the parking lot to andys not even any powerlines in the way.An rc unit receives one channel and sends diffrent channels via wire to each diffrent servo unless your using rc parts from circa 1970s and in that case the 40 channel walkies would still work just fine to extend your range.

Won't work trust me. Also, you ignore the fact that an rc hele is NOT simple to fly.Maybe you need to try one and see for yourself. It isn't something your going to pick up fly over to another roof land it and everything is fine. The walkie talkies will not boost the radio signal strength. Again, give it a try and you'll see I'm right on this. Also, the further away you fly the harder it will be to control. Not that you would be able to controlit in the first place. It's hard to do. Didn't you say a few pracitce runs in the parking garage. With that in mind as I said you'd smash it into the wall. Even a 2 channel hele can be tough to control. Using the dog, as they did in the movie, made much more sense than what you are saying. Your walkie talkie idea would more likely interfer with the radio signal rather than help it.

[bd2999]

I didn't have a problem at all with them reinforcing the buses. I mean it makes sense if you are going to leave. Thing to me is that why did they want to leave? I mean they did not want to die in a mall, so instead they were going to make a mad dash to a boat for some island they don't know exists to die on it. I mean even if the island had nothing on it, they still had issues that they would have to address and the probability of an island where their are no zombies is probably zero because other people probably went there first and brought it with them (going by how the zombie rules work in the remake).

Eventually they probably would have run out of food in the mall, but they had all the entertainment they needed and probably enough food for a good long while. I just don't think the reason to want to leave was big enough. I mean even if you go somewhere else, unless the world pulls itself back together you are doomed anyway. The island thing is a good idea if you have enough people to clear it and can then use it to grow food and so on and so forth, but that is alot more work and I dont see why you couldn't plan better for something like that down the line. They practicly brought nothing with them. I understand that they had to leave in a hurry and all of that, but before you even plan for something like that you get all the supplies you might need and have it preloaded on there just in case some stuff goes down. I understand it is a movie but at the same time if they are going to do something that crazy why try not to minimalize the possibility of just dieing of starvation when you get there? Just saying.

Not to mention Anna is one of the most annoying heroines I have ever seen in a movie.

I didn't have a problem at all with them reinforcing the buses. I mean it makes sense if you are going to leave. Thing to me is that why did they want to leave? I mean they did not want to die in a mall, so instead they were going to make a mad dash to a boat for some island they don't know exists to die on it. I mean even if the island had nothing on it, they still had issues that they would have to address and the probability of an island where their are no zombies is probably zero because other people probably went there first and brought it with them (going by how the zombie rules work in the remake).

Eventually they probably would have run out of food in the mall, but they had all the entertainment they needed and probably enough food for a good long while. I just don't think the reason to want to leave was big enough. I mean even if you go somewhere else, unless the world pulls itself back together you are doomed anyway. The island thing is a good idea if you have enough people to clear it and can then use it to grow food and so on and so forth, but that is alot more work and I dont see why you couldn't plan better for something like that down the line. They practicly brought nothing with them. I understand that they had to leave in a hurry and all of that, but before you even plan for something like that you get all the supplies you might need and have it preloaded on there just in case some stuff goes down. I understand it is a movie but at the same time if they are going to do something that crazy why try not to minimalize the possibility of just dieing of starvation when you get there? Just saying.

Not to mention Anna is one of the most annoying heroines I have ever seen in a movie.

[sandrock74]

Hell, I would have left the mall just to get away from everyone! I didn't like the people in it and the mall itself felt much less safe than the mall in the original. They had zombies in the friggin' basement (or wherever the gas tank was)!

I would have felt safer if I were in the mall with The A-Team, MacGuyver and the Professor from Gilligans Island! Now that's a dream zombie combatin' team! They would have made an attack helicopter out of those buses, spare parts and a coconut radio (thanks to the Professor).

[Redman6565]

I think you go to an island to give yourself the chance to survive. I don't like the idea of starving to death. As for entertainment, what happens when the electric goes off?

In this movie you only change if bitten so getting to an island and killing any zombies that may be there makes sense. You could grow food and enjoy life. Put me on the bus and in the boat.

[EvilNed]

I don't mind the armoured buses. I just mind the entire journey they take. It's just stupid.

[SRP76]

I would have felt safer if I were in the mall with The A-Team, MacGuyver and the Professor from Gilligans Island!

No, you don't want the A-Team. They fired 213,789,004,872 bullets on their show, and never hit anybody. Not the kind of marksmanship you want for zombie-battling.

[Legion2213]

No, you don't want the A-Team. They fired 213,789,004,872 bullets on their show, and never hit anybody. Not the kind of marksmanship you want for zombie-battling.

Yep, not one single kill in the A-Team....Hell, I remember one episode where they shot down a helicopter...and the bad dudes all staggered out of it with a few cuts and scrapes...:D

I still think the buses were a cool idea, and I agree that that mall was not the fortress that the Original Dawn mall was....it was decidedly unsafe, and when you can count your entire ammunition stockpile on two pair of hands, you really need to be getting the Hell out of dodge.

Edit: The thing that really pissed me off was when they actually made it to Andy's gun shop, they grabbed a few handfulls of ammo and bailed out, instead of spending an hour or two there and really loading up on weapons and ammo....I mean, they were there, why not load up bigtime?

[SRP76]

Edit: The thing that really pissed me off was when they actually made it to Andy's gun shop, they grabbed a few handfulls of ammo and bailed out, instead of spending an hour or two there and really loading up on weapons and ammo....I mean, they were there, why not load up bigtime?

How could they "load up"? They were on foot, trying to escape running ghouls. If they tried to run away carrying 200 pounds of stuff on their backs, they'd be eaten within 5 seconds.

[sandrock74]

No, you don't want the A-Team. They fired 213,789,004,872 bullets on their show, and never hit anybody. Not the kind of marksmanship you want for zombie-battling.


But it would be freakin' cool to stand with them and spray that kind of ammo all over! Besides, I'd never have to worry about being hit from friendly fire!

[jim102016]

No, you don't want the A-Team. They fired 213,789,004,872 bullets on their show, and never hit anybody. Not the kind of marksmanship you want for zombie-battling.

Hell with the A-Team! That guy Andy was a crack shot. With all the equipment he had in his store, the people in the mall should have had him start thinning the heard the moment they made contact with him with the dry erase board. Surely, Andy could have come up with a few silencers for his rifles to keep the noise down.

The mall was not built as well as the Monroeville, and the dead were running (for whatever crazy reason). Place wasn't a long-term solution, but the first thing they should have done was shoot that asshole who clearly exhibited selfish tendencies the minute he got inside the mall.

[Redman6565]

Hell with the A-Team! That guy Andy was a crack shot. With all the equipment he had in his store, the people in the mall should have had him start thinning the heard the moment they made contact with him with the dry erase board. Surely, Andy could have come up with a few silencers for his rifles to keep the noise down.

The mall was not built as well as the Monroeville, and the dead were running (for whatever crazy reason). Place wasn't a long-term solution, but the first thing they should have done was shoot that asshole who clearly exhibited selfish tendencies the minute he got inside the mall.

Now that you mention it, I wonder how many of the propane tanks they had. Also, why not take one of the busses over to Andy and load it from the roof. Heck, I wonder what type of bomb old Andy could have made with all the stuff he had? Just a few ideas if we all get stuck in a mall with a bunch of zombies wanting to get in and eat us. I think if a few of us were stuck like they were we might just think our way out of it. Jim I'm want you on my team. lol :D

[jim102016]

Now that you mention it, I wonder how many of the propane tanks they had. Also, why not take one of the busses over to Andy and load it from the roof. Heck, I wonder what type of bomb old Andy could have made with all the stuff he had? Just a few ideas if we all get stuck in a mall with a bunch of zombies wanting to get in and eat us. I think if a few of us were stuck like they were we might just think our way out of it. Jim I'm want you on my team. lol :D

Sounds good, Redman. We'll round up a few hookers, knock off a liquor store, and head for the nearest fortified gun store...and pray we can get in! I've seen a few firearms stores that were built like Fort Knox.

[Legion2213]

Hell with the A-Team! That guy Andy was a crack shot. With all the equipment he had in his store, the people in the mall should have had him start thinning the heard the moment they made contact with him with the dry erase board. Surely, Andy could have come up with a few silencers for his rifles to keep the noise down.

The mall was not built as well as the Monroeville, and the dead were running (for whatever crazy reason). Place wasn't a long-term solution, but the first thing they should have done was shoot that asshole who clearly exhibited selfish tendencies the minute he got inside the mall.


Which one? Kennith, Andre, CJ or Steve? They were all pretty selfish to begin with...

[Redman6565]

Sounds good, Redman. We'll round up a few hookers, knock off a liquor store, and head for the nearest fortified gun store...and pray we can get in! I've seen a few firearms stores that were built like Fort Knox.

haha I can't drink I'll have to find something else to party on. :cool:

[zombieparanoia]

I never understood why they left the mall in the first place. They didn't say anything about running low on anything, it just seemed like plot device "I don't want to die here" uh, ok, where do you want to die then? On an island you've never even heard of that may or may not exist?

Reinforcing the buses was a good idea but it was a bit A-teamish in execution. Pro autobody shops would have a hard time making some of the mods they threw together.

And why wasn't Andy out on the roof every day using up ammo? He knew he was running out of food soon, WTF? even if there was 10,000 zombies out front thats not that much ammo for a gun store, thats 100 boxes of 100 rounds. I've gone through 100 rounds in a hour plinking at the range. At the very least the "rescue party" should have set up camp for a bit and thinned the crowd before trying to make a break for it.

And why didn't they shoot the guy that locked the return door on them? that would have been priority #1 for me if I was on the outside even if zombies were chasing me.

[Legion2213]

ZP, the mall wasn't secure, they had already had those things running around in the basement or whatever. The Monroeville Mall in the original Dawn was nicely buttoned up and zombie proof (until the bikers came along). The Dawn 04 Mall didn't have that sense of security to me....the Original Dawn folks also had plenty of ammo, the Dawn 04 people only had a few dozen rounds tops (there is a scene where they are counting what they have got, and it ain't much).

[jim102016]

ZP, the mall wasn't secure, they had already had those things running around in the basement or whatever. The Monroeville Mall in the original Dawn was nicely buttoned up and zombie proof (until the bikers came along). The Dawn 04 Mall didn't have that sense of security to me....the Original Dawn folks also had plenty of ammo, the Dawn 04 people only had a few dozen rounds tops (there is a scene where they are counting what they have got, and it ain't much).

Have to agree, the movie was not as secure as in the original. The dead were also more mobile and violent. I've wondered why Andy didn't do more to cut down the masses out front. Maybe he was worried about the noise attracting more of the dead, perhaps his lack of nutrition prevented him from hanging off the roof for long periods of time.

[Redman6565]

Here's an idea. We have all these places where you could get the zombies into then lock them in. Take Cincy. You have a football, baseball, and 5th 3rd arena. I wonder how many zombies you could lock in those three places.

[Legion2213]

Here's an idea. We have all these places where you could get the zombies into then lock them in. Take Cincy. You have a football, baseball, and 5th 3rd arena. I wonder how many zombies you could lock in those three places.

I've thought about using sports stadiums both ways, they tend not to have any windows due to their nature, so they are sort of like little fortresses, you could set up a decent tent city and store a lot of supplies in one if you were well organized.

As for luring zeds into them, sounds good on the surface, but when you have (for example) 2.000 zeds in one how do you get another thousand in there without the other ones busting out?

[Mike70]

And why wasn't Andy out on the roof every day using up ammo? He knew he was running out of food soon, WTF? even if there was 10,000 zombies out front thats not that much ammo for a gun store, thats 100 boxes of 100 rounds. I've gone through 100 rounds in a hour plinking at the range. At the very least the "rescue party" should have set up camp for a bit and thinned the crowd before trying to make a break for it.

i think the main problem with thinning the herd out by using guns would be the noise you'd be making. who's to say that for every one you shot, you wouldn't be drawing 3 more right to where you are at.

[Legion2213]

i think the main problem with thinning the herd out by using guns would be the noise you'd be making. who's to say that for every one you shot, you wouldn't be drawing 3 more right to where you are at.

The "rescue party" (mall folks) only had a few dozen rounds anyway, not much zombie thinning is gonna be happening there.

[SBEADER]

Redman you have some tacticaly sound ideas.

[Bub666]

Here's an idea. We have all these places where you could get the zombies into then lock them in. Take Cincy. You have a football, baseball, and 5th 3rd arena. I wonder how many zombies you could lock in those three places.

Good luck getting them all in those three places.

[SRP76]

And remember, these zombies are faster than you. How are you going to lure them into a stadium with you, then get out yourself?

[Bub666]

It would take alot more people,to lure them into a stadium.you can't do something like that by yourself.

[MaximusIncredulous]

ZP, the mall wasn't secure, they had already had those things running around in the basement or whatever. The Monroeville Mall in the original Dawn was nicely buttoned up and zombie proof (until the bikers came along). The Dawn 04 Mall didn't have that sense of security to me....the Original Dawn folks also had plenty of ammo, the Dawn 04 people only had a few dozen rounds tops (there is a scene where they are counting what they have got, and it ain't much).

At least the mall had supplies, including first aid. I could understand if someone in the group had an idea of the makeup of the island they were going to and could vouch for its safety but they just say "let's go to an island cause I don't want to die where it's relatively safe" with no way of knowing what supplies the island had or its security. I would rather take my chances with zombies contained in the basement, knowing that I have plenty of supplies on hand for the time being than go on some fatal foolhardy adventure, especially with schmucks like that yuppie prick.

[Bub666]

At least the mall had supplies, including first aid. I could understand if someone in the group had an idea of the makeup of the island they were going to and could vouch for its safety but they just say "let's go to an island cause I don't want to die where it's relatively safe" with no way of knowing what supplies the island had or its security. I would rather take my chances with zombies contained in the basement, knowing that I have plenty of supplies on hand for the time being than go on some fatal foolhardy adventure, especially with schmucks like that yuppie prick.

I agree.It was really stupid for them to leave the mall for a island.

[SRP76]

At least the mall had supplies, including first aid.

For a limited time only. Bottom line is, they would eventually have to leave it. Why just wait around to die in there? That was the whole point; it was expressly stated in the movie. How does everyone miss it?

[Bub666]

For a limited time only. Bottom line is, they would eventually have to leave it. Why just wait around to die in there? That was the whole point; it was expressly stated in the movie. How does everyone miss it?

They should've taking more time to plan their escape better.If they had spent alittle more time planing,there would've been more then four of them at the end.

[SRP76]

They should've taking more time to plan their escape better.If they had spent alittle more time planing,there would've been more then four of them at the end.

How exactly can "run for your life" be planned?:lol:

They had no more way of knowing what was happening outside their mall than Peter and Fran had of knowing what was outside theirs. They've got very little ammo, a finite amount of food, and someone getting offed every day. You have to just grab your ass and go; there's nothing to plan.

[Bub666]

How exactly can "run for your life" be planned?:lol:

They had no more way of knowing what was happening outside their mall than Peter and Fran had of knowing what was outside theirs. They've got very little ammo, a finite amount of food, and someone getting offed every day. You have to just grab your ass and go; there's nothing to plan.

I mean when they decide to reinforce the buses,and take a boat to an island.They didn't plan that out well.

[Yojimbo]

Yeah, I always wondered why they didn't use that BP truck at the loading dock to drive over to Andy, and then have him hop off the roof to the top of the truck and then drive him back to the mall?

Even if he had to put together a makeshift rope ladder or something (maybe out of rifle slings, I dunno) wouldn't that have made more sense than to send the dog?

Suspension of disbelief I guess. It would have made too much sense to do this and better for suspense sake I guess to do something completely riduculous instead of something safe and practical.


Personally, the idea of reinforcing the shuttle buses makes sense to me. Just hated the way Snyder turned it into an A-Team montage, replete with an MTV soundtrack while stupid Nicole spraypainting her stupidity on the cowcatchers.

[Bub666]

That always bugged me too.Why didn't they take the truck over to get Andy.Are you telling me it wouldn't have been easier that way.

[Mike70]

Yeah, I always wondered why they didn't use that BP truck at the loading dock to drive over to Andy, and then have him hop off the roof to the top of the truck and then drive him back to the mall?

they probably would've had to do that fairly early on. the chick was able to jump in and drive over, fair enough. i wonder though, if getting back would've been as easy. the large numbers of zombies, alerted to the presence of potential food, might've made it damn hard for the driver to extricate themselves from the truck without getting turned into human carpaccio.

[Yojimbo]

they probably would've had to do that fairly early on. the chick was able to jump in and drive over, fair enough. i wonder though, if getting back would've been as easy. the large numbers of zombies, alerted to the presence of potential food, might've made it damn hard for the driver to extricate themselves from the truck without getting turned into human carpaccio.

Maybe if they had thinned the crowd beforehand, with explosives and a lot of Andy's choice sniping. Also, an okie-doke manuever, getting the zombies to congregate on one side of the mall while the truck goes around back.

I don't know, but I still think stupid Nicole's spraypaint job was worth hating!

[Mike70]

Maybe if they had thinned the crowd beforehand, with explosives and a lot of Andy's choice sniping. Also, an okie-doke manuever, getting the zombies to congregate on one side of the mall while the truck goes around back.

I don't know, but I still think stupid Nicole's spraypaint job was worth hating!

true, maybe a couple of those propane tanks off the roof might've thinned things out enough or if the rest of the folks had gone to one side of the roof and raised a commotion. both might at least give the driver a decent chance of getting out.

[Bub666]

Maybe if they had thinned the crowd beforehand, with explosives and a lot of Andy's choice sniping. Also, an okie-doke manuever, getting the zombies to congregate on one side of the mall while the truck goes around back.

I don't know, but I still think stupid Nicole's spraypaint job was worth hating!

Thats what I was going to say.It's not that hard to think of these things.

[Cartma7546]

One thing that just came to mind, while we're pointing out all the faults in this movie. Why was it so easy for nicole to hop in the truck and drive through the sea of zombies and it was a hell of alot harder for the shuttles to do the same task? Its not like there were less at the time and the bitch didn't even have a propane tank.

[SRP76]

That always bugged me too.Why didn't they take the truck over to get Andy.Are you telling me it wouldn't have been easier that way.

That's exactly what they were planning to do when it came time to leave the mall.

[Bub666]

That's exactly what they were planning to do when it came time to leave the mall.

No,they were planning to use one of the buses to pick Andy up.

[SRP76]

Same difference. They weren't going to take the truck across town, and they weren't going to use the truck to get Andy, come back to the mall, then try to head out in the buses. That would just be stupid.

The only problem was that the girl jumped the gun and forced them to try to mount a retrieval operation. And we saw how that turned out. If they had tried to get Andy before this, the buses wouldn't have been ready yet, and they'd have all been eaten alive in the mall. And that wouldn't have solved anything.

[Bub666]

They were planning on getting Andy when the buses were ready.And when they were leaving the mall for good.

[SRP76]

They were planning on getting Andy when the buses were ready.And when they were leaving the mall for good.

Exactly. And they wouldn't use the truck to do that, because the truck wouldn't make it across town.

And as the movie showed us, trying to get over there and back in the truck would have been suicidal. Yet, people ask "why didn't they do that"?

[Legion2213]

The truck might have been an option if it was actually inside the mall and they were able to add some caging and protection to it, but seeing as it was oustide, it wasn't an option, which left them with the shuttles

[Ov3rlord]

I agree with the wearing the lines of zombies out but that would have been tricky to prevent noise, how effective would it be to haul some tvs from radio sahck or whatever to the roof and drop em on the zombies below I'm sure the bodies would've muffled the noise. When the truck full of people arrived I got two questions how did the people in the back get out? and especially how did the big woman get out when she needed a wheel barrow to move? Also when what's his face killed the janitor with the broken croquet mallet wasn't that a sports store he was in? What would stop them from say tying some climbing rope to an arrow and shooting it to andy who ties it on his end and climbs above the undead? He looked like he was in pretty good shape. In that same electronics store wouldn't they have had some CB Radios? I know my local electronics stores do. Before anyone tells me a rope on an arrow is to heavy get some real long fishing line tie one end to the arrow and the other to the rope. Andy grabs the line and pulls the rope to him worst that happens it falls apart and they try again.

p.s. I to hated the whole spray paint part. Did she think that helped or something?

[Thorn]

You know how sometimes people just dislike an idea, because everyone else does? The make shift escape vehicles are an easy target that some people disliked and it just has become so easy for people to point a finger at them and snigger. In my opinion it was a workable option, not one I personally would have come up with when they did. They made a break for the island “dream” before they had to. I would have exhausted all of my options in and around the mall before moving my people elsewhere. Especially when you have no way of knowing if option B is better. In this case, the island clearly wasn’t.

Getting Andy would have been a priority for me, as well as the ammo and guns he had in his shop. I would have focused on that and after the mall had no more to offer, or if it became too unsafe I would have either moved on or found a way to make it safe.

Thing is movies are not very interesting if there is no drama, and staying inside a locked building with nothing of note going on for 3 hours does not a good movie make. As has been said above suspension of disbelief is the key factor here.

The shuttles were fine, the montage again was kind of campy for my taste. But the music being played in the original Dawn while they cleaned out the mall was pretty damn campy too in my opinion. It is easy to look back on the works we love so much with rose colored glasses but they were far from perfect offerings. I think we can all agree on this despite our love of them.

[Yojimbo]

Exactly. And they wouldn't use the truck to do that, because the truck wouldn't make it across town.

And as the movie showed us, trying to get over there and back in the truck would have been suicidal. Yet, people ask "why didn't they do that"?


Though instead they hatched a highly problematic plan of using a dog to get to Andy because he was starving. My point is that they could have gotten Andy with the truck even while they were still working on the buses. This should have been done as soon as possible. They could have then stocked up on a decent supply of ammo and had a great sniper on their side of the street.

I don't know that getting to Andy with the truck would have been suicidal, given that an old lady was able to safely make it into the mall from the truck.


So my plan would have been:

1) On the opposite side of the bulding, while standing on the roof, the survivors attract as many zombies as possible.

2) Andy thins out the crowd around the truck and covers two survivors as they climb down from the roof onto the top of the truck. Driver climbs into cab, non-driver stays on top of truck.

3) The truck drives across the street to Andy's gun shop. Driver remains at wheel, second man climbs up top to receive boxes of ammo supplies from Andy. Finally andy jumps down to the top to the truck from his patio. Andy and the non-driver-rescuer secure themselves to the top of the truck for the trip.

4) Truck drives back to the mall. Andy and Non-driver crawl up to roof of mall and then proceed to cover driver as he crawls out of cab and then up to roof.

[darth los]

The shuttles were fine, the montage again was kind of campy for my taste. But the music being played in the original Dawn while they cleaned out the mall was pretty damn campy too in my opinion. It is easy to look back on the works we love so much with rose colored glasses but they were far from perfect offerings. I think we can all agree on this despite our love of them.

Well said. It's cool to love something, just call it what it is. I love dawn but is it better than day? One would have to say no. The people who say dawn is better are sentimentally biased, imo.

With that said though dawn is my fav.

:cool:

[Bub666]

1) On the opposite side of the bulding, while standing on the roof, the survivors attract as many zombies as possible.

2) Andy thins out the crowd around the truck and covers two survivors as they climb down from the roof onto the top of the truck. Driver climbs into cab, non-driver stays on top of truck.

3) The truck drives across the street to Andy's gun shop. Driver remains at wheel, second man climbs up top to receive boxes of ammo supplies from Andy. Finally andy jumps down to the top to the truck from his patio. Andy and the non-driver-rescuer secure themselves to the top of the truck for the trip.

4) Truck drives back to the mall. Andy and Non-driver crawl up to roof of mall and then proceed to cover driver as he crawls out of cab and then up to roof.

I agrre with your plan.It's an easy plan,and any idiot should be able to pull it off.

[lullubelle]

Now lets see the situation you have to leave through a crowd of flesh eating fast zombies, gee doesnt it make sense to armor the vehicles you are leaving in, ok the whole scene when they were doing this was a bit annoying, but it made all the sense to prepare those vehicles, cause you want to get out and get away, not get out and get eaten.:D


You know how sometimes people just dislike an idea, because everyone else does? The make shift escape vehicles are an easy target that some people disliked and it just has become so easy for people to point a finger at them and snigger. In my opinion it was a workable option, not one I personally would have come up with when they did. They made a break for the island “dream” before they had to. I would have exhausted all of my options in and around the mall before moving my people elsewhere. Especially when you have no way of knowing if option B is better. In this case, the island clearly wasn’t.

Getting Andy would have been a priority for me, as well as the ammo and guns he had in his shop. I would have focused on that and after the mall had no more to offer, or if it became too unsafe I would have either moved on or found a way to make it safe.

Thing is movies are not very interesting if there is no drama, and staying inside a locked building with nothing of note going on for 3 hours does not a good movie make. As has been said above suspension of disbelief is the key factor here.

The shuttles were fine, the montage again was kind of campy for my taste. But the music being played in the original Dawn while they cleaned out the mall was pretty damn campy too in my opinion. It is easy to look back on the works we love so much with rose colored glasses but they were far from perfect offerings. I think we can all agree on this despite our love of them.

You know thorn, you got a point there.

[Yojimbo]

You know how sometimes people just dislike an idea, because everyone else does? The make shift escape vehicles are an easy target that some people disliked and it just has become so easy for people to point a finger at them and snigger.

I do think that fortifying the buses was a good idea. Certainly, I would rather go out of the mall in a prepared bus rather than one that is not fortified. What I hated, and I think a lot of people similarily disliked was the stereotypical A-Team montage of them fortifying the bus accompanied by the MTV soundtrack that was pervasive throughout most of the film. (Not to mention the idiotic spraypainting on the cowcatchers - What the hell was that for? Sure it wasn't meant to make the character look any more lame than she already did) I think that the use of this montage was indicative of a lazy director with no real original vision, which is - at least for me- one of the main things that made a lot of the movie just a standard, mediocre SciFi Channel like TV movie of the week.



Thorn does make a very valid point about viewing our favorite films from the past through Rose Colored Glasses and that the original had many flaws on it's own.

[Skippy911sc]

and I think a lot of people similarily disliked was the stereotypical A-Team montage of them fortifying the bus accompanied by the MTV soundtrack that was pervasive throughout most of the film. (Not to mention the idiotic spraypainting on the cowcatchers - What the hell was that for? Sure it wasn't meant to make the character look any more lame than she already did) I think that the use of this montage was indicative of a lazy director with no real original vision, which is - at least for me- one of the main things that made a lot of the movie just a standard, mediocre SciFi Channel like TV movie of the week.



Thorn does make a very valid point about viewing our favorite films from the past through Rose Colored Glasses and that the original had many flaws on it's own.

I was thinking the Same thing as far as the A-Team!!! LOL

Also, putting some shelving on a van and calling this fortifying is ridiculas. those things are incredibly top heavy and flimsy. If I had to go out I would try and secure the vehicles as much a possible but watching some of these folks work on it was down right funny! Although I could not see my wife doing anything other than the spray paint scene ;)