Pregnant US man hails 'miracle' - Ummm... NAH!

[Neil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7330196.stm

How is this in anyway:-
1) Completely NOT a miracle - He was a women, and still has all the reproductive organs of a woman? He's a women with facial hair! And is now pregnant? How is that a miracle?
2) Just not generally f****ed up? So they get syringes of sperm from sperm banks and inject it in him... Why? Why not just do it to the 'wife'? Why create this side-show?

[capncnut]

Man by name. Woman by biology. In other words it's just a woman who looks like a bloke giving birth to a
baby, end of. :|

[bassman]

This kind of sh*t is just disturbing. How confused is the child going to be?

[Skippy911sc]

Whats next a woman with a penis that used to be a man...How Amazing!!!

:annoyed::annoyed::annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:

[Chic Freak]

It's not a miracle, I agree, but I don't see why the kid should end up being particularly "confused." It'll have a female mum and a male dad, just like everyone else.

Mrs Beatie said the couple's roles would not change once the baby was born.

"He's going to be the father and I'm going to be the mother," she said.

[bassman]

Yeah, but what happens when the kid goes back and looks at pictures from the day of it's birth and daddy is the one in the bed?:eek:

Sick...

[Chic Freak]

I think "sick" is a bit strong. It's very unusual, but unless the parents were incessantly harping on to the child and its friends about when Daddy was pregnant for years on end, I don't see why it would do anything to screw the kid up really.

[Tricky]

Poor kid will get absolutely ripped at school!

[Neil]

It's not a miracle, I agree, but I don't see why the kid should end up being particularly "confused." It'll have a female mum and a male dad, just like everyone else.

Mrs Beatie said the couple's roles would not change once the baby was born.

"He's going to be the father and I'm going to be the mother," she said.

It's the fact they've gone out of the way to create this freak-show... Why didn't they just put the syringe in the 'wife'?

And this kid will not be reminded of their parentage...

And then, sperm + ovaries = pregnant = somehow a miracle? Oh come on!!

[slickwilly13]

This used to be a Hawaiian beauty queen??? WTF!

[Chic Freak]

This used to be a Hawaiian beauty queen??? WTF!

Did he?? Lol.

Have you ever seen photos from the 'Miss Ladyboy' or whatever it's called, ladyboy beauty pageant in Thailand? They are literally some of the most beautiful "women" I have EVER seen, and yet they all have penises. Amazing :stunned:

[capncnut]

Okay, on second thought, he don't even look like a bloke. He looks like a bitch with a tashe. And trust me, I've met a few bitches with tashes. :rolleyes:

[p2501]

meh, if i remember right the wife is physically unable to carry a child due to some manner of GYN issue. so they opted for the husband to carry their child. kinda makes sense to me all in all. i've read interviews of the two of them and honestly they both seem rather nice and are just trying to have a family so i see it as a non issue.

better two decent intelligent people fire out a kid, no matter the means. than some chav ****head ****ting another load into the gutter.

[Danny]

better two decent intelligent people fire out a kid, no matter the means. than some chav ****head ****ting another load into the gutter.

point.

[Khardis]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7330196.stm

How is this in anyway:-
1) Completely NOT a miracle - He was a women, and still has all the reproductive organs of a woman? He's a women with facial hair! And is now pregnant? How is that a miracle?
2) Just not generally f****ed up? So they get syringes of sperm from sperm banks and inject it in him... Why? Why not just do it to the 'wife'? Why create this side-show?

Just part of the slippery slope, i mean, this is what we get for "pretending" that this person is legally a man even though biologically it has no business saying that.


It's not a miracle, I agree, but I don't see why the kid should end up being particularly "confused." It'll have a female mum and a male dad, just like everyone else.

Mrs Beatie said the couple's roles would not change once the baby was born.

"He's going to be the father and I'm going to be the mother," she said.

More like a mutilated female dad and a female mum.


meh, if i remember right the wife is physically unable to carry a child due to some manner of GYN issue. so they opted for the husband to carry their child. kinda makes sense to me all in all. i've read interviews of the two of them and honestly they both seem rather nice and are just trying to have a family so i see it as a non issue.

better two decent intelligent people fire out a kid, no matter the means. than some chav ****head ****ting another load into the gutter.

In my book people who mutilate their bodies and then want everyone else to pretend (hush hush) that they are something they are not it less intelligent than anything any stupid chavs could do... at LEAST chavs mastered the basic human functions of man/woman.

[Chic Freak]

I take it you don't acknowledge the possibility of a person's sex and gender not being aligned correctly, then? Why do you think a transgender person would want to "pretend" to be the opposite sex?

[Khardis]

I take it you don't acknowledge the possibility of a person's sex and gender not being aligned correctly, then? Why do you think a transgender person would want to "pretend" to be the opposite sex?

Because they got a mental problem. Or quite possibly they were born with dual male and female sex organs in a sad twist of nature and the docs were forced to eliminate 1 set at birth so they would live a normal life and they chose the wrong set to remove. I saw a documentary on something like that once. But being born 100% healthy physically as a woman or a male then getting your body mutilated so you will feel better mentally? The problem isn't in the body, its in the mind.

[p2501]

Because they got a mental problem. Or quite possibly they were born with dual male and female sex organs in a sad twist of nature and the docs were forced to eliminate 1 set at birth so they would live a normal life and they chose the wrong set to remove. I saw a documentary on something like that once. But being born 100% healthy physically as a woman or a male then getting your body mutilated so you will feel better mentally? The problem isn't in the body, its in the mind.
wow your a little gem now aren't you.

[Khardis]

wow your a little gem now aren't you.

Nah, just a realist. I know its un PC to say that someone who is a physically normal/healthy male or female who mutilates their penis or vagina to slightly resemble the opposite of what it is is not mentally stable.

Must be why they have to jump through so many hoops and get so many tests done to make certain they are suffering from: Gender Dysphoria. Which is classified as a mental disorder by medical science.

[p2501]

http://www.mental-health-today.com/gender/dsm.htm

DSM IV's criteria for Gender Dysphoria.

I don't think its "UN-PC". though cute of your to try that tactic and make your self some manner of intardweb social martyr. When it's just willing full or base ignorance towards the condition on your part.

what someone else does to their own body, is quite frankly their business. and nothing more. it's cute and perhaps telling that you feel this vitriolic response towards GD suffers. but that's another conversation.

But in short the recognized treatment for GD is a prolonged series of tests and measures to ensure that the suffer has true full on gnarly Gender Dysphoria, and not some other disorder masked as GD (which unfortunately has happened). because as it stands Gender reassignment surgery is the only real end all cure for people truly struck with this condition. so while it may not be up to your own views. the "mutilation" is in fact a recognized treatment function.

[EvilNed]

Nah, just a realist.

Your own little private realism.

[_liam_]

In Soviet Russia, Ned pwns YOU!



I honestly could not give a brass monkey's toss!

I daresay there are worse "Normal" people out there raising kids, us vanillas are successfully raising generation after generation of anti social, school shooting, workshy, drug taking, tyre slashing, date raping idiots, so we arent really in a position to say that these people are going to do a worse job, as there is no precedent on which to judge them.

The only issue I can take with it is that we don't know yet if the hormone treatments the child-bearer has undergone will affect the baby.

As for the kid getting bullied at school, you could say the same about mixed race kids 30 or 40 years ago - if people don't get out there and live their lives in the way they want to, nobody will ever have the chance. Harsh perhaps, but it's the reality of social interaction.

[Tricky]

Thing is mixed race kids still get bullied at school,as does anybody else who is different or comes from an odd background,if your a normal white kid who's parents make you wear **** clothes you'll be hounded by others at school,it doesnt make it right but it happens,so this poor kid will be in for a hard time!no amount of anti-bullying doctrine in schools will ever stamp that out

[_liam_]

Nah mixed race kids don't get as hard a time as they did in the 60s or 50s, legislation, liberalisation & the fact that there's more of them sees to that.

I'm not saying they don't get a hard time, but things do get better.

[Tricky]

Even so,i reckon the mixed race kids & everybody else would still absolutely rip the poor kid whos dad is his/her mum who used to be a woman!i know i wouldnt like to be that kid,i'd disown my parents if that was the case!if "it" wants to be a man then it should have gone the full hog & had all womanly equipment completely removed,fair enough some people have these gender issues & they have the full surgery to change things,but sitting on the fence like that one is just makes it all the more odd :confused:

[_liam_]

yeah as a straight male i find it a pretty strange choice, but then i dont understand people who like fat women, other men or bacardi breezers...such is the way of the world, I just let them get on with. I'm sure there's people who think we are twisted for liking gory films and rock music

[Chic Freak]

Nah, just a realist. I know its un PC to say that someone who is a physically normal/healthy male or female who mutilates their penis or vagina to slightly resemble the opposite of what it is is not mentally stable.

When is it ever a question of political correctness on this board? :/

I would suggest that there are two distinct schools of thought on the existence of transgenderism: the medical community's, and yours.

You have the right to say that you do not believe in its existence, but the fact is that the current body of scientific research, both biological and psychological, contradicts that belief.

Were you aware, for example, that male and female brains physically look different, and that brain imaging studies have shown that many transgender women do indeed have physically female brains, despite also having male genitalia?

NB: The inicidence of hermaphrodite babies is extraordinarily rare, and most don't survive. It is therefore not a satisfactory explanation for transgenderism. On a side-note, was the documentary you watched about that Jewish kid called 'Brian'?? That was well interesting :)


if "it" wants to be a man then it should have gone the full hog & had all womanly equipment completely removed

Why? It's a potentially life-threatening surgery. I know I wouldn't have a hysterectomy unless it was literally like, "lose it or die" (in the case of cancer etc). If I needed to become a man I wouldn't bother making myself infertile for the sake of it, it's not worth dying over.

[Khardis]

When is it ever a question of political correctness on this board? :/

I would suggest that there are two distinct schools of thought on the existence of transgenderism: the medical community's, and yours.

You have the right to say that you do not believe in its existence, but the fact is that the current body of scientific research, both biological and psychological, contradicts that belief.

Were you aware, for example, that male and female brains physically look different, and that brain imaging studies have shown that many transgender women do indeed have physically female brains, despite also having male genitalia?

NB: The inicidence of hermaphrodite babies is extraordinarily rare, and most don't survive. It is therefore not a satisfactory explanation for transgenderism. On a side-note, was the documentary you watched about that Jewish kid called 'Brian'?? That was well interesting :)



Why? It's a potentially life-threatening surgery. I know I wouldn't have a hysterectomy unless it was literally like, "lose it or die" (in the case of cancer etc). If I needed to become a man I wouldn't bother making myself infertile for the sake of it, it's not worth dying over.

Chic, I didn't say it didn't exist, I agreed that it did. I just said it was a mental disorder, which is how it is also classified. Which makes sense, anyone who would mutilate their genitals to feel better emotionally clearly has a mental issue to work on. If the only way to stave off an evident suicide is to let them mangle themselves and call themselves the opposite sex then I say, go for it. So long as it isn't being paid for with taxes.

I may seem cold hearted, but if i see a man with a mangled penis who wants to be called a woman I cannot oblige. I would meet them half way and call them a transsexual if they liked, but not a woman, they aren't a woman.

I know that makes me un-pc and an ass and all that, but thats just the way it is for me, I shoot straight from the hip.


Even so,i reckon the mixed race kids & everybody else would still absolutely rip the poor kid whos dad is his/her mum who used to be a woman!i know i wouldnt like to be that kid,i'd disown my parents if that was the case!if "it" wants to be a man then it should have gone the full hog & had all womanly equipment completely removed,fair enough some people have these gender issues & they have the full surgery to change things,but sitting on the fence like that one is just makes it all the more odd :confused:

Yeah I don't think mixed race kids would be destroyed socially quite as bad as this poor kid in the story. Mixed race kids just have parents of different races, and regardless of recent history where that was taboo in this country thats been a norm for humans for 10000s of years. 1st rule of breeding is to spread out the genes.

I would almost say that a poor kid growing up in this kind of situation is being abused. Not physically or anything but I mean the crap the kid is going to have to take for the insanity of his "mom and dad" is going to put him close to the edge at some point, thats practically abusive.


Your own little private realism.

Good to see that you have quality to ad to the conversation. Mind explaining what isn't realistic about what I said?

[DeadJonas190]

When is it ever a question of political correctness on this board? :/

I would suggest that there are two distinct schools of thought on the existence of transgenderism: the medical community's, and yours.

You have the right to say that you do not believe in its existence, but the fact is that the current body of scientific research, both biological and psychological, contradicts that belief.

Were you aware, for example, that male and female brains physically look different, and that brain imaging studies have shown that many transgender women do indeed have physically female brains, despite also having male genitalia?

NB: The inicidence of hermaphrodite babies is extraordinarily rare, and most don't survive. It is therefore not a satisfactory explanation for transgenderism. On a side-note, was the documentary you watched about that Jewish kid called 'Brian'?? That was well interesting :)



Why? It's a potentially life-threatening surgery. I know I wouldn't have a hysterectomy unless it was literally like, "lose it or die" (in the case of cancer etc). If I needed to become a man I wouldn't bother making myself infertile for the sake of it, it's not worth dying over.

I was going to reply to him with pretty much what you said, so thanks for saving me all the typing :D

At the same time, I happen to know 2 transgendered people and quite honestly, they are some of the most normal people I know and if you did not know they had once been of the opposite sex you would never know the difference.

[Choas]

That kid is going to be messed up in the head.

[Chic Freak]

Chic, I didn't say it didn't exist, I agreed that it did. I just said it was a mental disorder, which is how it is also classified. Which makes sense, anyone who would mutilate their genitals to feel better emotionally clearly has a mental issue to work on. If the only way to stave off an evident suicide is to let them mangle themselves and call themselves the opposite sex then I say, go for it. So long as it isn't being paid for with taxes.

I may seem cold hearted, but if i see a man with a mangled penis who wants to be called a woman I cannot oblige. I would meet them half way and call them a transsexual if they liked, but not a woman, they aren't a woman.

I've read this a couple of times and either you are contradicting yourself, or I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

If it's the former:

* You agree that transgenderism is a congenital illness, yet say it is also a mental disorder
* You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet refer to realigning the brain and body as "genital mutilation"
* You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet say that transgender people who want to realign their bodies with their brains have a "mental issue." Surely it would be stranger to want to remain mismatched?
* If you agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body?

If it's the latter, and I'm just completely misunderstanding what you're saying, please explain :)

[MinionZombie]

It's an interesting issue.

I guess I personally would consider somebody who used to be a dude, and is now a chick, to be something like 60 to 80 percent female ... cos with all the surgery in the world, an ex-dude/now-a-woman can't create life inside of them - they have no womb or ovaries, which is a huge difference from a dude ... guys fill that space with beer and burgers. :D

Likewise, an ex-woman/now-a-bloke can't spoodge up a storm and go seeding up their one-night-fields like it's going out of style...at least I don't think so, I don't exactly find this sort of thing particularly intriguing to read up on. :p

So it's kinda like looking at it from both a 'medical' point of view, for lack of a better word, and from a 'spiritual' point of view, for lack of a better word.

If that makes sense ... ? ... that's my thoughts on the issue anyway. :confused::)

[Khardis]

I've read this a couple of times and either you are contradicting yourself, or I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

If it's the former:

* You agree that transgenderism is a congenital illness, yet say it is also a mental disorder
* You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet refer to realigning the brain and body as "genital mutilation"
* You agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, yet say that transgender people who want to realign their bodies with their brains have a "mental issue." Surely it would be stranger to want to remain mismatched?
* If you agree that transgenderism really is where people have the brain of one gender and the body of another, how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body?

If it's the latter, and I'm just completely misunderstanding what you're saying, please explain :)


I said that I agreed that it exists, Gender Dysphoria, which is a mental disorder. "Transgenderism" isn't really a real medical word, the cause of "transgenderism" is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder, not a physical disorder. GD is a real mental issue and it causes real pain and therefore requires real treatment at times. This makes it real enough to be considered. Which is probably why as I said medical science labels it as a mental disorder. No one is born with a "female brain" this doesn't make sense, the "mind" as we know it is not chartable, so it ca encompass a lot of confusions. 1 of which would be gender dysphoria. Men who are born men and who become women may FEEL and THINK they should be a woman, but that doesn't mean their brain is a woman's brain, it means they think/feel it only. Its a mental issue. Kind of like people who were born thinking they were werewolves in middle ages.

"how can you refer to a woman who used to have male genitalia, but now has female genitalia, as anything other than a woman, if you agree that she has both a female brain and body?"

Well for 1, He doesn't have female genitalia anymore than any Eunuch has female genitalia. Gender reassignment is cosmetic in purpose only, the purpose for which is to LOOK like a female. Not actually BE a female. And even then it requires a LIFETIME of hormone therapy treatment to keep itself from reverting back to just being a male with a mutilated penis.

Female genitalia isn't something that can be created surgically, neither can male genitalia. Having your testicles removes and your penis flipped inside out to create a fold and then fake labia added with a scalpel is no more woman or real than if I wear a wig and stuff socks in my shirt and pretend i'm a woman. And their brain is still male, always was. Now its just swimming in artificially introduced hormones from external forces.

All in all, I can call a man who went through sex reassignment surgery not a woman because, well... he isn't one.


It's an interesting issue.

I guess I personally would consider somebody who used to be a dude, and is now a chick, to be something like 60 to 80 percent female ... cos with all the surgery in the world, an ex-dude/now-a-woman can't create life inside of them - they have no womb or ovaries, which is a huge difference from a dude ... guys fill that space with beer and burgers. :D

Likewise, an ex-woman/now-a-bloke can't spoodge up a storm and go seeding up their one-night-fields like it's going out of style...at least I don't think so, I don't exactly find this sort of thing particularly intriguing to read up on. :p

So it's kinda like looking at it from both a 'medical' point of view, for lack of a better word, and from a 'spiritual' point of view, for lack of a better word.

If that makes sense ... ? ... that's my thoughts on the issue anyway. :confused::)

It goes even deeper than that. A man who switches is still a man because his DNA says so, and likewise for a woman. "interpretation" has nothing to do with medical facts and everything to do with political correctness and societal norms.

[kortick]

this is amusing

i dont mean insult
that would be petty
and that is an emetic notion to me

but khardis sometimes you come across
as an educated neanderthal who lives
on a diet of bile and hate.

you must be fun at parties.

first off, i know many Transexuals
gender disphoria is a mental condition
but that is just the first step

after being diagnosed with GD then you
are seen by psychs to make sure it isnt
schizophrenia or some other mental disorder.
thats where it leaves the realm of mental illness.

next step is referral to an endocrinologist
en·do·cri·nol·o·gy -The study of the glands and hormones of the body and their related disorders.
that is where it is determined if a MEDICAL problem is present.
usually one finds a lack of testerone or estrogen.
so there a diagnosis is made. if there is a medical condition
it is treated with hormone therapy, this is not artificially introduced
hormones, but needed ones to replace the missing ones.

if your testosterone level dropped your penis would shrivel
just like theirs do. no difference.
are you not aware that most transgendered dont have fully functional
genitals? your not mutilating something that was already damaged.

are you aware that the criteria for getting a sex change is living and
functioning as the opposite sex for up to 2 years before they even
begin?

There are very complex steps for sexual re assignment surgery
and its clear you read a dsm, its also clear you know nothing of the
reality of the procedure.

i could go on, but ive lost interest.

chic you are more correct about things than anyone
dont let anyone try to fool you other wise.

honestly Khardis, i mean no insult.
you would know when I am insulting someone.

but like i said i bet your a blast at parties.

[Khardis]

I don't care if I sound harsh, you cant say I am wrong though. What I am like at parties doesn't matter in the terms of this discussion.

[clanglee]

Still, Bosom Buddies was a great show.

[DeadJonas190]

I don't care if I sound harsh, you cant say I am wrong though. What I am like at parties doesn't matter in the terms of this discussion.

We can say you are wrong because you are presenting your opinion as a fact, when in fact, it is your opinion and not fact. I think it comes down to that every argument on this board, you never admit your wrong even if facts are presented that prove you are wrong.

Personally I enjoy reading your posts because they can be entertaining in a Bill O'riley no spin zone kind of way...

[Khardis]

We can say you are wrong because you are presenting your opinion as a fact, when in fact, it is your opinion and not fact. I think it comes down to that every argument on this board, you never admit your wrong even if facts are presented that prove you are wrong.

Personally I enjoy reading your posts because they can be entertaining in a Bill O'riley no spin zone kind of way...

Which opinion was a i presenting as a fact? The fact that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness? I am sorry if you don't like that but thats not an opinion, thats a fact.

[Bruiser235]

I'm so sick of this "thing" being called a man. It's a woman. End of story. As Neil would say, only in America. And that ain't a good thing.

[Mike70]

I'm so sick of this "thing" being called a man.


well calling someone a "thing" isn't a very nice thing to say. kinda tells us more about you than the person you are slamming.

anyway, gender is, in a great degree, a matter of personal identity. and to be questioning the very way you were born must be a rather emotional, troubling experience.

there are lots of people that struggle with this and if it is a mental disorder it is no different than any other mental illness that we show great tolerance for - addiction, depression, obsessive/compulsive, etc.

we shouldn't marginalize or slam people that want to be or are different from what is considered "normal."

[kortick]

Ahh....
sometimes I realise why I leave the other
forum where we discuss existentialism and
its relations to the tenets of nihilism to come here.

Its so I can see posts from people who are always right
and others who promote hate by calling people "things".

Reading post like these are the literary equivalent
of a finger down the throat.

And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you?
Only in the US you say.
well we can start of by saying you are an ignorant thing
as transexuals have been around since before the US was founded.


And not ever being wrong is a constant problem with you khardis.
one which I don't understand.
Because i truly feel you are capable of providing enlightening
points of view.
most people have a toggle switch that goes from "im right" to "i may not be"
you set the dial on extreme omniscience and broke it off.
there is no black and white with shades of grey in between,
only black, because you present your positions with such
disgust for the opinion of others.

toilet training at gun point didnt work out so good i see.

ok we have established GD is a mental condition.
However you are no seeing it as a SYMPTOM of the problem and
as the problem itself.
Like vomiting is a symptom of food poisioning, not the problem.

quote:
It is beleived that gender is hard-wired in the brain before birth. As such, being transsexual is a congenital birth issue unseen by others due to its location in the brain: a mis-match in the sex of a person between that of the brain and that of the body. The main symptom of this condition is a unique type of depression, anxiety or even psychological pain: Gender Dysphoria.

You are not wrong in some of what you say, but your disbelief supresses you, but your not blind its just that you wont see.

Using terms like "thing" and "multilate" and impying they are crazy and
there is no medical basis for this frankly astounds me.

I still bet your fun at parties....

[Khardis]

Ahh....
sometimes I realise why I leave the other
forum where we discuss existentialism and
its relations to the tenets of nihilism to come here.

Its so I can see posts from people who are always right
and others who promote hate by calling people "things".

Reading post like these are the literary equivalent
of a finger down the throat.

And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you?
Only in the US you say.
well we can start of by saying you are an ignorant thing
as transexuals have been around since before the US was founded.


And not ever being wrong is a constant problem with you khardis.
one which I don't understand.
Because i truly feel you are capable of providing enlightening
points of view.
most people have a toggle switch that goes from "im right" to "i may not be"
you set the dial on extreme omniscience and broke it off.
there is no black and white with shades of grey in between,
only black, because you present your positions with such
disgust for the opinion of others.

toilet training at gun point didnt work out so good i see.

ok we have established GD is a mental condition.
However you are no seeing it as a SYMPTOM of the problem and
as the problem itself.
Like vomiting is a symptom of food poisioning, not the problem.

quote:
It is beleived that gender is hard-wired in the brain before birth. As such, being transsexual is a congenital birth issue unseen by others due to its location in the brain: a mis-match in the sex of a person between that of the brain and that of the body. The main symptom of this condition is a unique type of depression, anxiety or even psychological pain: Gender Dysphoria.

You are not wrong in some of what you say, but your disbelief supresses you, but your not blind its just that you wont see.

Using terms like "thing" and "multilate" and impying they are crazy and
there is no medical basis for this frankly astounds me.

I still bet your fun at parties....

I never said thing, and when you cut off your testicles, remove most of your urethra and then flip your penis inside out, that is mutilation. Wether or not its for a good cause is semantics and up to social discussion, fact is that its still mutilation though with no physical medical benefits.

And as per parties, well I don't usually go to parties where people sit around and have discussions based in politics or gender identity. I go to cut loose.

[ProfessorChaos]

while we're on the subject, mr. garrison from south park is once again mr. garrison, thanks to another sex change operation:lol:

they even mentioned this particular case in the episode.

[Terran]

Neurologically speaking, when it comes to the brain, I wouldnt think there is a clear distinction between what is physcial and "mental"... Its an overlap that pisses everyone off(in some way or another)....



And what pray tell kind of 'thing' are you?


*shudders*

I would like to think of a great reference back to a Lovecraft story...but I cant just seem to think of one....:o.

And to answer the question personally...."Im working on it".....:rockbrow:

[DeadJonas190]

Which opinion was a i presenting as a fact? The fact that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness? I am sorry if you don't like that but thats not an opinion, thats a fact.

I'm not just talking about this post, in nearly every post you make you present your opinions as if they are facts, often using the word fact in reference to an opinion. It's as if your opinion is the only reality and there is not another explanation other than the opinion you present. Even if somebody proves you wrong (and im not talking about this instance) you will argue as if you are still right.

In this instance though, it seems that you keep degrading people with this condition instead of recognizing the problem as a problem that has a cure, even if it is not something agreeable to you.

But like I said before, your entertaining in a Bill O'Riley no spin zone kind of way. I will actually admit that I like to read your posts, they keep me entertained when im bored sometimes.

[Mike70]

I'm not just talking about this post, in nearly every post you make you present your opinions as if they are facts, often using the word fact in reference to an opinion. It's as if your opinion is the only reality and there is not another explanation other than the opinion you present. Even if somebody proves you wrong (and im not talking about this instance) you will argue as if you are still right.

In this instance though, it seems that you keep degrading people with this condition instead of recognizing the problem as a problem that has a cure, even if it is not something agreeable to you.

But like I said before, your entertaining in a Bill O'Riley no spin zone kind of way. I will actually admit that I like to read your posts, they keep me entertained when im bored sometimes.

man don't even waste your time. if he feels that the thoughts, feelings and concerns of other people are petty compared to his need to be right, that is his problem not ours.

[Dommm]

Personally I think man = man
women = women
they can all get as freaky as they want, have whatever surgery they want, but it does not change this in any way or form... it is what it is.

But at the end of the day it is also my own business if I want to be a women or a man or anything else that I want to be and at the end of the day if I am not hurting or pushing my views onto anyone then I am free to practise that as I please without being judged for it. I have gay friends (no transgendered ones yet !!!) and though I dont personally agree with the lifestyle they follow as far as I am concerend they are still human, good to hang out with and still have money so I would be happy doing business with them...

[bassman]

Personally I think man = man
women = women
they can all get as freaky as they want, have whatever surgery they want, but it does not change this in any way or form... it is what it is.

But at the end of the day it is also my own business if I want to be a women or a man or anything else that I want to be and at the end of the day if I am not hurting or pushing my views onto anyone then I am free to practise that as I please without being judged for it. I have gay friends (no transgendered ones yet !!!) and though I dont personally agree with the lifestyle they follow as far as I am concerend they are still human, good to hang out with and still have money so I would be happy doing business with them...

I'm the same way. That's what I don't understand about some gays. They give you all this "we just want to be treated equal" stuff and then flaunt around their homosexuality and intentionally TRY to draw attention to themselves.

If you want to be gay, fine... be gay. I I may not agree with it, but I'm not going to hate you for it. Just for the most part keep it to yourself. I don't go around acting different so that everyone around me knows that i'm straight....

[mista_mo]

I think I may have transgender dymorphia or whatever the f*ck it is called. I feel the need to read vogue magazine, and buy strawberry flavoured lysol aerosol spray cans. F*ck guys..I just..I jst can'thelp but feel that I am a women trapped in a mans body..or..a man trapped in a slightly manly womenly body..or a women trapped inside of a slightly male body, with hair in all the wrong places....or a man trapped inside of a mans body...OH GOD WHY CAN'T I HAVE A SHRED OF NORMALCY IN MY LIFE.

Why must i not have breasts...of a vag-ag-age...why do i have these dangly bits...I don't want them, you hear that God?! Take these dangly bits and stick em up ur arse! WHY COULD'NT I HAVE BEEN A WOMEN INSTEAD OF THIS HORRIBLE MAN-BEAST LIKE F*CK.

Thats it, f*ck this penis s*it; I'm cutting it off and digging a hole where my testes used to be, and am going to take estrogen caplets. Maybe then i'll be that pretty little girl i've always wanted to be :(

[slickwilly13]

I had a feeling you were fruity. Now its in the open. :p

[kortick]

No Mo isnt fruity, I tried to get him to do gay porn
to make some extra money, but he wouldnt.

imagine putting your sexual preference before money?

and yes some gay people flame real hard and as tolerant as
I am to any sexual lifestyle i get annoyed when i hear things like
a friend of mine saying he got his girlfriend pregnant accidentally and
princess earl says "well, thats what you get for having sex with a woman"

but i get equally annoyed by striaght guys who have to prove how striaght
they are like Mike who always would come up to you and say
"I was just with Kathy, dont believe me? Smell my finger." and he would
shove said finger into your face to sniff. And when he would call you up
he would brag about his penis size with the immortal words
"its as big as that phone you got in your hands"

both types of homo and hetero people are annoying

And wheter people like khardis want to call transgenderism mutilation
or whatever it is a proven medical and mental condition.

Isnt any major surgury multilating in some way?
a colostomy doesnt multlate the body?
diabetic amputee due to nueropathy is mutilating?

and you say well those arent mental illness,
but you think that these people dont sufffer from depression
and other psycholical ailments due to the disease or treatment?

none of your arguements hold any water
i am sorry if you are right all the time, but are not

take comfort in this thought:
in some alternate world you ARE right about everything
and you are living very happily.

Ahh reality isnt what it used to be.

[MinionZombie]

both types of homo and hetero people are annoying

I hear that.

I don't see why being gay to some people means 'doing a Marco' (as in Marco from Big Brother UK 5 - excessively stereotypical doesn't even cover it ... nor does excessively annoying). It makes no sense to act in such a manner just because you're gay - for those who do anyway - makes no sense to me. There's being a bit avant-garde (fine with me) if you will, and then there's Marco off BB UK 5 ... :eek: I mean, what does it achieve? Why is it necessary?

Anyone prancing around with a deliberately hyper-active style, with a high-pitched voice, acting like a f*cking child on a bag of sugar, annoys the piss out of me. If you saw some random person doing that in the street, regardless of where they like to stick their willies/tongues/fingers/sex accessories, you'd wanna punch them and tell them to stop being such a twat. :rolleyes:

Anyway...

Equally, I too can't be doing with straight people shagging their way around town/the city/the world like it's going out of fashion and thinking it's so amazing like nobody has ever done it before. Yes - you like dick, or you like minge - get over it, and wear some friggin' johnnies once in a while so you don't put us normal people at risk of your chuddy-rot. :mad:

Ugh - both sides of sexual arrogance/excessive cartoonishness annoys the crap out of me.

Anyway ... in conclusion, to each their own ... just don't act like a twat about it. :D

[Khardis]

I'm not just talking about this post, in nearly every post you make you present your opinions as if they are facts, often using the word fact in reference to an opinion. It's as if your opinion is the only reality and there is not another explanation other than the opinion you present. Even if somebody proves you wrong (and im not talking about this instance) you will argue as if you are still right.

In this instance though, it seems that you keep degrading people with this condition instead of recognizing the problem as a problem that has a cure, even if it is not something agreeable to you.

But like I said before, your entertaining in a Bill O'Riley no spin zone kind of way. I will actually admit that I like to read your posts, they keep me entertained when im bored sometimes.

I agreed that it was a PROBLEM, its a mental problem. As I stated numerous times in this very thread. This isn't an opinion, its a fact, medical science has said that its a mental problem. Clearly one bad enough that one of the methods for a "cure" is to mutilate an otherwise physically healthy body.

Your opinion on how I present my opinions in other threads has no bearing in THIS thread, so please try to stick to the subject, OR stop personally attacking me for the sake of argument.


I think I may have transgender dymorphia or whatever the f*ck it is called. I feel the need to read vogue magazine, and buy strawberry flavoured lysol aerosol spray cans. F*ck guys..I just..I jst can'thelp but feel that I am a women trapped in a mans body..or..a man trapped in a slightly manly womenly body..or a women trapped inside of a slightly male body, with hair in all the wrong places....or a man trapped inside of a mans body...OH GOD WHY CAN'T I HAVE A SHRED OF NORMALCY IN MY LIFE.

Why must i not have breasts...of a vag-ag-age...why do i have these dangly bits...I don't want them, you hear that God?! Take these dangly bits and stick em up ur arse! WHY COULD'NT I HAVE BEEN A WOMEN INSTEAD OF THIS HORRIBLE MAN-BEAST LIKE F*CK.

Thats it, f*ck this penis s*it; I'm cutting it off and digging a hole where my testes used to be, and am going to take estrogen caplets. Maybe then i'll be that pretty little girl i've always wanted to be :(

Its so true! I can understand your feelings, I for one have always felt that I was a dolphin in a human body, I mean... I should be swimming in the sea and eating herring all day... If only there was an operation to fix that!


No Mo isnt fruity, I tried to get him to do gay porn
to make some extra money, but he wouldnt.

imagine putting your sexual preference before money?

and yes some gay people flame real hard and as tolerant as
I am to any sexual lifestyle i get annoyed when i hear things like
a friend of mine saying he got his girlfriend pregnant accidentally and
princess earl says "well, thats what you get for having sex with a woman"

but i get equally annoyed by striaght guys who have to prove how striaght
they are like Mike who always would come up to you and say
"I was just with Kathy, dont believe me? Smell my finger." and he would
shove said finger into your face to sniff. And when he would call you up
he would brag about his penis size with the immortal words
"its as big as that phone you got in your hands"

both types of homo and hetero people are annoying

And wheter people like khardis want to call transgenderism mutilation
or whatever it is a proven medical and mental condition.

Isnt any major surgury multilating in some way?
a colostomy doesnt multlate the body?
diabetic amputee due to nueropathy is mutilating?

and you say well those arent mental illness,
but you think that these people dont sufffer from depression
and other psycholical ailments due to the disease or treatment?

none of your arguements hold any water
i am sorry if you are right all the time, but are not

take comfort in this thought:
in some alternate world you ARE right about everything
and you are living very happily.

Ahh reality isnt what it used to be.

Having your infected appendix removed because its physically poisonous is not mutilation. Cutting open your penis and removing your testicles so you feel better emotionally is. I am sorry, its just common sense.

As for being right etc, I dunno, thats your bag. I just give my thoughts, wether or not you like them is not my problem. I don't care what you or other people think about me and the things I think and say. I enjoy my life and I am happy I make ample money, I have a loving girlfriend who is attractive, I have meaningful relationships with friends and family, I'm self reliant and I can get things done to advance myself in life. If this bothers you (and it does apparently, you cant seem to stop criticizing me for my attitude which is a reflection of all those things I just mentioned.) Then perhaps you should seek out emotional help from a trained professional. Or stick to the topic at hand.

Back on topic, I know that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, I have stated no less than a dozen times in this very thread that simple fact. Maybe instead of writing volumes of text repeating some things I already mentioned back to me and criticizing me you could go back and read a little instead.


I hear that.

I don't see why being gay to some people means 'doing a Marco' (as in Marco from Big Brother UK 5 - excessively stereotypical doesn't even cover it ... nor does excessively annoying). It makes no sense to act in such a manner just because you're gay - for those who do anyway - makes no sense to me. There's being a bit avant-garde (fine with me) if you will, and then there's Marco off BB UK 5 ... :eek: I mean, what does it achieve? Why is it necessary?

Anyone prancing around with a deliberately hyper-active style, with a high-pitched voice, acting like a f*cking child on a bag of sugar, annoys the piss out of me. If you saw some random person doing that in the street, regardless of where they like to stick their willies/tongues/fingers/sex accessories, you'd wanna punch them and tell them to stop being such a twat. :rolleyes:

Anyway...

Equally, I too can't be doing with straight people shagging their way around town/the city/the world like it's going out of fashion and thinking it's so amazing like nobody has ever done it before. Yes - you like dick, or you like minge - get over it, and wear some friggin' johnnies once in a while so you don't put us normal people at risk of your chuddy-rot. :mad:

Ugh - both sides of sexual arrogance/excessive cartoonishness annoys the crap out of me.

Anyway ... in conclusion, to each their own ... just don't act like a twat about it. :D


I don't really like flamboyance myself personally, but I think I can understand it. Being gay while not quite as taboo as it used to be is still shunned greatly in probably every human group on earth. As such there is a lot of baggage just with gay people discovering that they are in fact gay. I will tell you a little something personal-ish. My younger brother is gay. He doesn't act flamboyant at all, but he certainly feels confident in what he is. He didn't always though, in fact when he 1st "came out" to our family he was extremely depressed, ashamed, worried, etc etc. Which actually angered me that he would think that we would love him any less because of it. But he was still struggling with it internally, and I could see this, i know him very well, i watched him grow up. I've known him every day of his life.

Anyway to cut to the chase, he struggled with it, and what being gay means for a long time as a person until he finally came to grips with it. And now he is fine. He isn't ashamed, or upset he just accepts it. Which once all that grief was out of his way let him function more a normal person again and not someone who was hurting emotionally.

I think this is what a lot of overtly flamboyant types have to deal with, and 1 way of coping with all those negative feelings is to just go nuts with it and turn the bad into some sort of pseudo-image, if you can OWN your situation, it cant hurt you anymore. My brother dealt with it in a more internal way as thats the way we all are as people, we don't emote all over the place, some people do though and a method for dealing with a lot in life can be to in some cases act flamboyant. Well thats my take on it anyway.

So while I may dislike it, I can certainly understand it to a degree.

[kortick]

Originally Posted by Khardis
I agreed that it was a PROBLEM, its a mental problem. As I stated numerous times in this very thread. This isn't an opinion, its a fact, medical science has said that its a mental problem. Clearly one bad enough that one of the methods for a "cure" is to mutilate an otherwise physically healthy body.

*You are wrong. Gender Dysphoria is a symptom of a biological condition. I already agreed that GID is in the DSM, but mental disorders dont cause hormone imbalances and other proven medical maladies.


Originally Posted by Khardis
Your opinion on how I present my opinions in other threads has no bearing in THIS thread, so please try to stick to the subject, OR stop personally attacking me for the sake of argument.


*Of course you are going to get response to how you present yourself. no one likes a know it all. do you? And i hope you dont believe I am just trying to fight with you for the sake of fighting. Honestly i do consider you intelligent and wish you were a bit more open to discussion as opposed to arguing.


Originally Posted by Khardis
Its so true! I can understand your feelings, I for one have always felt that I was a dolphin in a human body, I mean... I should be swimming in the sea and eating herring all day... If only there was an operation to fix that!

*see, now that is making fun of others who you claim have mental problems.
not a very high road to take.

Originally Posted by Khardis
Having your infected appendix removed because its physically poisonous is not mutilation. Cutting open your penis and removing your testicles so you feel better emotionally is. I am sorry, its just common sense.

*It goes deeper than a feel good thing. you must be aware of that.
frankly that statement is beneath you.

Originally Posted by Khardis
As for being right etc, I dunno, thats your bag. I just give my thoughts, wether or not you like them is not my problem. I don't care what you or other people think about me and the things I think and say. I enjoy my life and I am happy I make ample money, I have a loving girlfriend who is attractive, I have meaningful relationships with friends and family, I'm self reliant and I can get things done to advance myself in life. If this bothers you (and it does apparently, you cant seem to stop criticizing me for my attitude which is a reflection of all those things I just mentioned.) Then perhaps you should seek out emotional help from a trained professional. Or stick to the topic at hand.

*you dont give thoughts, you give facts, without a thought of them being wrong in even the slightest way. I know i am wrong at times, often too. this is a concept that you seem to lack and many here have picked up on it and are discouraged by. and the fact you dont care if anyone likes it just re-enforces your lack of objectiveness. and honestly I dont need a shrink because i dont care how you live your life, i only care you interact with us. i am glad you are happy.

Originally Posted by Khardis
Back on topic, I know that gender dysphoria is a mental illness, I have stated no less than a dozen times in this very thread that simple fact. Maybe instead of writing volumes of text repeating some things I already mentioned back to me and criticizing me you could go back and read a little instead.

*I have read the works of Harry Benjamin, the pioneer in the field and have been to transgendered workshops as part of college classes. have you?
I also have read much of the work of Alfred Kinsey. Yes I do have a college degree, you didnt get the only one.

Originally Posted by Khardis
Anyway to cut to the chase, he struggled with it, and what being gay means for a long time as a person until he finally came to grips with it. And now he is fine. He isn't ashamed, or upset he just accepts it. Which once all that grief was out of his way let him function more a normal person again and not someone who was hurting emotionally.

*I am glad you were there for your brother and he is well. I hope the best for him.

[Neil]

Another thread bites the dust... Closed...