Flats/Apartment Blocks

[CornishCorpse]

Im currently in the process of writing a short story were a group of survivors rather than flee to the countryside or something better fortify a block of flats/apartments. So I thought Id offer upto the topic to you deadheads to pick out the problems so I can address them in story.

The survivors have painted all groundfloor windows black and moved the abundance of furniture from the above apartments to ground level to block the doors and fill up the bottom floor with objects. Sofas and closets jammed together against the wall to hold the doors shut. The apartment block holds about a 100 apartments ( for the brits out there think only fools and horses ) and is fairly dingy. Security doors at the front with a group of eighteen survivors getting in and out of the building by using ladders both rope and seperate from the second story.

So the roof is free for growing plants, the bottom floor is off limits and full of obstacles even if they did break through. The survivors can get in and out of safety without the worry of the dead following them up, they have a good abundance of neccessities in the flats above. It would take some time to go flat to flat cleaning out the bodies and the infection but with the keys you could have a sea of locked doors. You would be protected from looters because the city is a dead city with everyone fleeing or dead.

So I cant see a problem with this apart from the bottom floor doors giving in but they could be reinforced and the steps to the next floor could be taken out with a sledge ( thank you max brooks ). Through the flats you have plenty of things to burn for warmth and wear aswell as you may find books youd be amazed at who lives above you. Plus any helicopters ( watched too many zombie flicks but who are you to point fingers? :D ) would have a safe place to land and re-fuel.

I think its a stupid idea to hide out in the middle of a dead city but confronted with the option of running without any weapons to god knows where it doesnt seem like such a bad idea.

[MaximusIncredulous]

...Through the flats you have plenty of things to burn for warmth and wear aswell as you may find books youd be amazed at who lives above you.

Fires could be a problem if the survivors became careless. In some ways, fire may be a bigger threat than zombies if they have to burn things to stay warm.


Plus any helicopters (watched too many zombie flicks but who are you to point fingers? :D ) would have a safe place to land and re-fuel.

Wouldn't the roof need to be reinforced to allow for helicopter landings? I'm not sure. Also, where would the survivors get their hands on AvGas and store it?

[Legion2213]

Fires for warmth would also be a problem, flats generally don't have chimneys (hell, most UK houses don't have 'em these days).

I've always thought a block of flats would make a decent short term base while there was plenty of tinned food, water and fuel, but your survivor group needs to be actively planning to hit the country sooner or later IMO...no way could you support even a dozen folks food needs by using the roof for plants.

I'm sure there are folks more knowledgable than I, but I've been watching my "Survivors" DVD's lately and it seems you need a lot of land to feed even a small community once you've scavenged all the local supplies from the corpse of the "old world"

[Danny]

The thing you must remember is stuff HAS to go wrong, if theres no change in the opening situation then theres no reason for the story taking place.
If you want a story, an actual credible piece of fiction then its gotta be more than a survivalists wet dream of just listing how safe they are and all the ways in which they are safe.
You've gotta make people care for the characters, so then when something occurs to change the stories status-quo then you actually feel for the characters. Sure its easy to just keep typing off stuff and thinking "man thats cool" ,ive done it myself, but you've gotta write what you dont want to if you get my meaning, you created these characters, you dont want bad things to happen to them but you've got to to advance the plot, give them a quest to perform and what have you.
case in point when a character in stephen kings cell is randomly hit in the head with a brick and dies on the side of the road. I dont think king would have wanted her to die, but it was a significant plot advancement.

im rambling here but point is, if you want it to be a great story you gotta do stuff in it that you dont want to happen.

[Shadowofthedead]

well point being forget everything you know about zombies and max brooks and the such. now find yourself some people and study them... then emulate (spell check!) yourself as the main character with no knowledge of anything of the living dead you know now... now start writin. pick some friends ask them questions related to a living dead scenario. what would they do... where would they go... with no prior knowledge what would they do. how do they act to problems in a certain situation... then my friend you have a story worth readin. to many times i quit readin these stories in the fiction section because they are two dull. i want to read something for a change where the situation is hopeless and no one wants to cntribute. not one person going it alone. to dull. to guessable. rethink everything and start from square one.

[soulsyfn]

In reality your biggest problem is going to be the human element. First, everyone will think they can do things better than everyone else which will cause angst and turmoil. Second, there will be a fight for the leader position and this would lead to possible decension and a possible split in the group. Lastly, there will be someone that will go nuts being stuck in the same space for an extended period of time and will cause a dramatic shift in the perceived safety of the location.

[acealive1]

IMO...no way could you support even a dozen folks food needs by using the roof for plants.


u could raid the units. bound to have fridges:D

[Redman6565]

u could raid the units. bound to have fridges:D

After the first 24 to 48 hours you would have no power to run anything. You would also not have treated water to drink. What you have to understand that the very basic things that any society takes for granted would no longer be there. Nothing. Fire really would a major problem as was mentioned above.

Another thing would be gasses. Toxic stuff that would no longer have folks taking are of them. Who would be seeing to it that what they are contained in are running properly. Things would get ugly very quickly.

Also, the military would be given martial law over everything. I do not think that they would be the non force that all zombie movies make them. Way to much fire power for that. 28 Weeks is a fantastic movie that shows just what WOULD happen. Seeing as how most zombie nuts claim those aren't zombies I figured I'd use that as an example as to how things in a 'zombie' movie should be.

As for people, utter and total chaos. You take away the very basic things that a civilized society take for granted and you will see just how much like all the other animals we really are. :evil:

[acealive1]

After the first 24 to 48 hours you would have no power to run anything. You would also not have treated water to drink. What you have to understand that the very basic things that any society takes for granted would no longer be there. Nothing. Fire really would a major problem as was mentioned above.

Another thing would be gasses. Toxic stuff that would no longer have folks taking are of them. Who would be seeing to it that what they are contained in are running properly. Things would get ugly very quickly.

Also, the military would be given martial law over everything. I do not think that they would be the non force that all zombie movies make them. Way to much fire power for that. 28 Weeks is a fantastic movie that shows just what WOULD happen. Seeing as how most zombie nuts claim those aren't zombies I figured I'd use that as an example as to how things in a 'zombie' movie should be.

As for people, utter and total chaos. You take away the very basic things that a civilized society take for granted and you will see just how much like all the other animals we really are. :evil:


scuse me, i've been in situations with no power for days at a time (earthquakes) the fridge stays cold as hell for a long time. and im sure a generator could be found in such time before everything thawed out.



and in an earth quake scenario,we have backup power for the city. so we'd be fine. los angeles has been under martial law more times than i care to count,and the power has never once went off.

[Redman6565]

scuse me, i've been in situations with no power for days at a time (earthquakes) the fridge stays cold as hell for a long time. and im sure a generator could be found in such time before everything thawed out.



and in an earth quake scenario,we have backup power for the city. so we'd be fine. los angeles has been under martial law more times than i care to count,and the power has never once went off.

That's because people are still going to work after an earth quake. That wouldn't be the case with this. As for getting a generator. Good luck they'd sell out rather fast and good luck getting more of them or the gas to keep one going.

Also, martial law concerning an earth quake would be much different than dealing with abunch of zombies wanting to eat you turning you into zombie. There would be a 'shoot everything that moves' order given as soon as they would know what is going on. Not to mention what the Air Force and Navy would do. An earth quake doesn't try to get through your front door to eat you. I also don't think your fridge is going to stay as cold as you think. Your cold and frozen food would be bad in a matter of two days at best. Nor would you have that wonderful clean water coming from your faucet when nobody is working at the treatment plant.

[acealive1]

That's because people are still going to work after an earth quake. That wouldn't be the case with this. As for getting a generator. Good luck they'd sell out rather fast and good luck getting more of them or the gas to keep one going.

Also, martial law concerning an earth quake would be much different than dealing with abunch of zombies wanting to eat you turning you into zombie. There would be a 'shoot everything that moves' order given as soon as they would know what is going on. Not to mention what the Air Force and Navy would do. An earth quake doesn't try to get through your front door to eat you. I also don't think your fridge is going to stay as cold as you think. Your cold and frozen food would be bad in a matter of two days at best. Nor would you have that wonderful clean water coming from your faucet when nobody is working at the treatment plant.


people never worked after a quake, we got the "stay home for a week" thing and that concerns everyone who wasnt emergency personnel.

[Yojimbo]

people never worked after a quake, we got the "stay home for a week" thing and that concerns everyone who wasnt emergency personnel.

Like Ace, I also hail from Los Angeles, and during the riots and the earthquakes, we were told to stay off the streets and stay home. The only people outside were looters and emergency personnel.

Most of the folks who live in Los Angeles are very much aware that it doesn't take much to have the city go to total chaos (all it takes is a freeway closure or the Lakers winning a championship, or a three day weekend) and that when the SHTF most sane Angelenos stay at home, regardless of what the tv or the government says.

And the riots in 92? There was martial law in the streets, and folks actually did get machine gunned for simply driving toward millitary barricades. The cops, and all the gun owners in the city were so trigger happy that any Angeleno with an ounce of self preservation pretty much dug in at home.

[Redman6565]

Like Ace, I also hail from Los Angeles, and during the riots and the earthquakes, we were told to stay off the streets and stay home. The only people outside were looters and emergency personnel.

Most of the folks who live in Los Angeles are very much aware that it doesn't take much to have the city go to total chaos (all it takes is a freeway closure or the Lakers winning a championship, or a three day weekend) and that when the SHTF most sane Angelenos stay at home, regardless of what the tv or the government says.

And the riots in 92? There was martial law in the streets, and folks actually did get machine gunned for simply driving toward millitary barricades. The cops, and all the gun owners in the city were so trigger happy that any Angeleno with an ounce of self preservation pretty much dug in at home.

But you still had folks taking care of the basics, water, power, etc. In a world where the dead are walking around eating people those things are not going to be taken care of. It's funny to try and compare a zombie out break to an earth quake. lol An earth quake in LA is normal a zombie out break, come on.

[acealive1]

But you still had folks taking care of the basics, water, power, etc. In a world where the dead are walking around eating people those things are not going to be taken care of. It's funny to try and compare a zombie out break to an earth quake. lol An earth quake in LA is normal a zombie out break, come on.


things dont just "stop working" in the event of some type of disaster

[Danny]

things dont just "stop working" in the event of some type of disaster

actually in life after people it had some interesting info on stuff like that, like power stations shutting down after only about 48 hours without human input, its surprising that all the comforts of modern society are really just balancing on a string so to speak and the stuff we rely on could easily be taken away, granted it varies ,for example i live in the countryside, so in the event of a big disaster wed probably lose power and net access and stuff around here fast, but stuff like water levels and sewage wouldn't be a problem, but somewhere like new york for example would be in a bad way.

[acealive1]

IMHO, the only safe apartment complex would be my old one i grew up in.

it was pretty damn fortified with high walls on 3 sides

[Yojimbo]

But you still had folks taking care of the basics, water, power, etc. In a world where the dead are walking around eating people those things are not going to be taken care of. It's funny to try and compare a zombie out break to an earth quake. lol An earth quake in LA is normal a zombie out break, come on.

Yes, you are right that in those situations there were emergency staff that were supposed to be taking care of basics. But as far as I can remember (having weathered through some pretty righteous earthquakes here in Los Angeles) Angelenos are routinely told through the media after an earthquake that we should boil our water before drinking it (since an earthquake apparently messes with our water purity levels) and much of the city goes without electricity and gas until workers are able to restore these. Most of the residences in Los Angeles have the required "automatic shut off valve" on their gas systems that require a tech to come out to reverse-- which can translate to several days to over a week without gas service. Additionally, it is not uncommon in LA for us to experience "brown outs" and "blackouts" which last 24 hours or more even when there is no crisis other than a hot day and too many air conditioners being used -- again this is without a shaker. So we are frequently without electricity, water and gas in the aftermath of a shaker for quite and extended period of time, regardless of whether or not personnel are on duty.

Surely an earthquake is not a zombie outbreak, but if you are not a resident of Los Angeles, or been here during an earthquake or a riot, you are not in a position to judge how nasty my city gets in times of crisis. The dynamics here are very different from other cities in the USA, and we have some unique issues that make coping with a crisis -- any crisis -- especially difficult. Yes, there is nothing exactly like a "zombie crisis" but I venture to guess that you would not find being stuck in Los Angeles during an earthquake, flood, riot, fires or freeway closure to be a walk in the park -- I think that you would not like it at all. It is easy to scoff at my comparison if you have no idea what it is like in Los Angeles during a crisis, but I can assure you that you would not "LOL" if you were here during one.

[acealive1]

It is easy to scoff at my comparison if you have no idea what it is like in Los Angeles during a crisis, but I can assure you that you would not "LOL" if you were here during one.


damn right

[Yojimbo]

damn right

Ace knows how it is back here in Los Angeles!

I was directing a funeral service at a cemetery in East Los Angeles yesterday when a block away from the cemetery a cop got shot while serving a warrant to some dealers. Next thing I know all the streets are barricaded, swat team is running around with their machine guns and gear, the sky is full of news choppers, and what would usually be a 10 minute drive back to my office ends up taking an hour and a half through two police checkpoints manned by pissed off and trigger happy cops.

Ace, I love my hometown, but sometimes I think you had the right idea in living your life outside of the basin.

[acealive1]

Ace knows how it is back here in Los Angeles!

I was directing a funeral service at a cemetery in East Los Angeles yesterday when a block away from the cemetery a cop got shot while serving a warrant to some dealers. Next thing I know all the streets are barricaded, swat team is running around with their machine guns and gear, the sky is full of news choppers, and what would usually be a 10 minute drive back to my office ends up taking an hour and a half through two police checkpoints manned by pissed off and trigger happy cops.

Ace, I love my hometown, but sometimes I think you had the right idea in living your life outside of the basin.


LOL i was in south central between normandie and denker on 105th street by washington high school.


we always had police check points on our street,weird stuff

[CornishCorpse]

The thing you must remember is stuff HAS to go wrong, if theres no change in the opening situation then theres no reason for the story taking place.
If you want a story, an actual credible piece of fiction then its gotta be more than a survivalists wet dream of just listing how safe they are and all the ways in which they are safe.
You've gotta make people care for the characters, so then when something occurs to change the stories status-quo then you actually feel for the characters. Sure its easy to just keep typing off stuff and thinking "man thats cool" ,ive done it myself, but you've gotta write what you dont want to if you get my meaning, you created these characters, you dont want bad things to happen to them but you've got to to advance the plot, give them a quest to perform and what have you.
case in point when a character in stephen kings cell is randomly hit in the head with a brick and dies on the side of the road. I dont think king would have wanted her to die, but it was a significant plot advancement.

im rambling here but point is, if you want it to be a great story you gotta do stuff in it that you dont want to happen.

I get the point and thanks hells shall keep it in mind and the doing what you dont want to do is a very good point. Never read much of Stephen King but some of it is good. But I brought the idea of flats as something for the zed heads to gnaw on since Ive been trying to find the holes in it for a week or so and there are holes admittdly but its just a new perspective. The shizzle hits the fan and everyone responds by running for the country which is never the land of paradise its made out to be. I mean look at the reality tv at the minute you take a group of people from the inner city drop them on a farm and say kill and cook youre food and they go "...nah mate.."

Anyway back on topic thanks to everyone, all of the input has had some ramifications on the plot development and another pair of eyes is always helpful and alot of you guys seem to know youre stuff let alone actually experiencing disasters. The idea of a helicopter landing ontop of it was just a last minute why not thought with the british flat blocks ( only fools and horses style ) I thought could sustain a chopper but it wouldnt make sense for a landing. Food,water and power would indeed be a massive problem but food could be scavenged for the first couple weeks if that and growing could be possible but most chances its going.Water once again could be collected if the survivors move fast enough before the water is knocked out if not then there is rain water and purification.

Fire is a massive problem but it can be controlled through were they choose to use it and there would be fire extinguishers most people have them aswell as household smoke alarms could be another handy tool in stopping burning everything down. Id say burning stuff for warmth would not be necessary simply because the survivors would have hundreds of pieces of clothes from the other flats but fire is needed to cook so a makeshift cooking stove could be formed. Ive done it plenty of times out in flammable terrain and never caught anything on fire.

The human element pointed out by soulsfyn aswell as giving me some ideas to possibly use in the writing would defintly be the most big threat. Cabin fever plus the whole sense of nothingness the soldiers got in 28 days. If the survivors manage to fortify their building get food and warmth and manage to survive then? Isolated on a tiny island of almost sanity surrounded by corpses till they rot or the defences fall or someone wants more than their fair share.

Id say for the first week or two maybe itd be a good place to stay, if you can secure the bottom floor youre sorted for safety, a blockade wedging the doors and you can use the wonderful ability to climb to get in and out.

[Redman6565]

Yes, you are right that in those situations there were emergency staff that were supposed to be taking care of basics. But as far as I can remember (having weathered through some pretty righteous earthquakes here in Los Angeles) Angelenos are routinely told through the media after an earthquake that we should boil our water before drinking it (since an earthquake apparently messes with our water purity levels) and much of the city goes without electricity and gas until workers are able to restore these. Most of the residences in Los Angeles have the required "automatic shut off valve" on their gas systems that require a tech to come out to reverse-- which can translate to several days to over a week without gas service. Additionally, it is not uncommon in LA for us to experience "brown outs" and "blackouts" which last 24 hours or more even when there is no crisis other than a hot day and too many air conditioners being used -- again this is without a shaker. So we are frequently without electricity, water and gas in the aftermath of a shaker for quite and extended period of time, regardless of whether or not personnel are on duty.

Surely an earthquake is not a zombie outbreak, but if you are not a resident of Los Angeles, or been here during an earthquake or a riot, you are not in a position to judge how nasty my city gets in times of crisis. The dynamics here are very different from other cities in the USA, and we have some unique issues that make coping with a crisis -- any crisis -- especially difficult. Yes, there is nothing exactly like a "zombie crisis" but I venture to guess that you would not find being stuck in Los Angeles during an earthquake, flood, riot, fires or freeway closure to be a walk in the park -- I think that you would not like it at all. It is easy to scoff at my comparison if you have no idea what it is like in Los Angeles during a crisis, but I can assure you that you would not "LOL" if you were here during one.

I still say that the fridge would not be cold enough to sustain cold or frozen food after 24 to 36 hours. We buy the same one's you hard @$$ do in LA. As for how bad you have it, if it's that bad move. ;)

A zombie out break would be nothing like the crisis you mention. Nothing at all.

[Yojimbo]

I still say that the fridge would not be cold enough to sustain cold or frozen food after 24 to 36 hours. We buy the same one's you hard @$$ do in LA. As for how bad you have it, if it's that bad move. ;)

A zombie out break would be nothing like the crisis you mention. Nothing at all.

Yeah, a fridge might stay cool enough to prevent spoliage for 36 hours (provided that you don't mess around and open it every hour looking for something to snack on) but within the first 24 the frozen stuff is going to thaw. You might be able to extend the cooling time by loading it up with ice or dry ice and using it like a cooler, but unless you can resupply it regularly this will not work for very long. A lot of this would factor on what you had in the fridge in the first place - if you had a lot of frozen stuff to begin with, for example, this would extend the cooling time to some degree.

Los Angelenos tend to get used to how screwed up things are here in the city. Sure, if you got lots of money (which I do not) and you can afford to live in gated communities and have bodyguards and private security then maybe everything is wine and roses, but for us regular folks life in Los Angeles is not the glamourous celebrity fest you see on TV. Strangely, the normal everyday Los Angeleno soon becomes hyper-aware of the fragile balance in the city that keeps things from exploding on a daily basis, but also aware that balance is easily upset by the smallest issue.


Yes it is true that nothing is like a zombie crisis, and for that I am glad because look how bad it gets with a simple hurricane, fire, riot and earthquake. Add to that the dynamic of the dead returning to life to eat the living and you have what amounts to a really crappy day. But since there is really no such thing (as far as we know) as a zombie crisis, I can only speak about how bad it gets in reality and then relate it to the fantasy scenarios. My guess is that it would be bad all over, and in some places like Los Angeles even worse.

[SRP76]

Why all the groaning about keeping a fridge cold? There's more to eat than refrigerated food. Anything that comes in a box or a can or a jar will do you just right (along with the fake meat they try to peddle, that doesn't need refrigeration).

[MagicMoonMonkey]

Sounds a lot like the situation Frank and his baby daughter were placed, in the novel "Dying to live". He had stayed in his apartment block and blocked the lower floor with the furniture from other apartments in much the same way as you described.

How many people do you intend on placing within the fortified apartment block?

Edit.

Also remember that water pressure will be lost to apartment blocks relatively quickly after your outbreak.

[Redman6565]

Yeah, a fridge might stay cool enough to prevent spoliage for 36 hours (provided that you don't mess around and open it every hour looking for something to snack on) but within the first 24 the frozen stuff is going to thaw. You might be able to extend the cooling time by loading it up with ice or dry ice and using it like a cooler, but unless you can resupply it regularly this will not work for very long. A lot of this would factor on what you had in the fridge in the first place - if you had a lot of frozen stuff to begin with, for example, this would extend the cooling time to some degree.

Los Angelenos tend to get used to how screwed up things are here in the city. Sure, if you got lots of money (which I do not) and you can afford to live in gated communities and have bodyguards and private security then maybe everything is wine and roses, but for us regular folks life in Los Angeles is not the glamourous celebrity fest you see on TV. Strangely, the normal everyday Los Angeleno soon becomes hyper-aware of the fragile balance in the city that keeps things from exploding on a daily basis, but also aware that balance is easily upset by the smallest issue.


Yes it is true that nothing is like a zombie crisis, and for that I am glad because look how bad it gets with a simple hurricane, fire, riot and earthquake. Add to that the dynamic of the dead returning to life to eat the living and you have what amounts to a really crappy day. But since there is really no such thing (as far as we know) as a zombie crisis, I can only speak about how bad it gets in reality and then relate it to the fantasy scenarios. My guess is that it would be bad all over, and in some places like Los Angeles even worse.

haha bad all over is an understatement. I wonder how well people would work together. Your right about LA being bad but I'd bet every major city would be really bad. I'd be more worried about living people rather than zombies..


Why all the groaning about keeping a fridge cold? There's more to eat than refrigerated food. Anything that comes in a box or a can or a jar will do you just right (along with the fake meat they try to peddle, that doesn't need refrigeration).


Someone posted that their fridge would stay cold for long time. There would be plenty to eat. A lot of fun getting to it though. A zombie out break. :lol: God I love these movies. Somebody needs to do a survival video game that lets you run free and see how long you last. That would be fun.

[Yojimbo]

haha bad all over is an understatement. I wonder how well people would work together. Your right about LA being bad but I'd bet every major city would be really bad. I'd be more worried about living people rather than zombies..



Amen to that brother. This is my point, that regardless of the crisis, it's the other survivors that can often pose the biggest danger to everyone. In Los Angeles, I would be less worried about the zombies and more worried about getting hit by bullets meant for the zombies, or getting jumped for my supplies or vehicle.

[acealive1]

Why all the groaning about keeping a fridge cold? There's more to eat than refrigerated food. Anything that comes in a box or a can or a jar will do you just right (along with the fake meat they try to peddle, that doesn't need refrigeration).

then dont knock it, its got its own key :lol::lol:

[Yojimbo]

Why all the groaning about keeping a fridge cold? There's more to eat than refrigerated food. Anything that comes in a box or a can or a jar will do you just right (along with the fake meat they try to peddle, that doesn't need refrigeration).

Yeah, but dude, how else am I going to keep my beer and Jagermeister cold during the zombie crisis? Talk about essential survival items!:lol:


then dont knock it, its got its own key :lol::lol:

I was wondering who would be the first to say it!

[acealive1]

Yeah, but dude, how else am I going to keep my beer and Jagermeister cold during the zombie crisis? Talk about essential survival items!:lol:



I was wondering who would be the first to say it!

essential supplies.....for kaufman....



sorry, i couldnt help the dawn reference. that line just sticks out.

[SRP76]

Sounds a lot like the situation Frank and his baby daughter were placed, in the novel "Dying to live". He had stayed in his apartment block and blocked the lower floor with the furniture from other apartments in much the same way as you described.


That's true.

But, with all the zombie fiction out there, it's hard to come up with some situation that hasn't already been done.

[Redman6565]

That's true.

But, with all the zombie fiction out there, it's hard to come up with some situation that hasn't already been done.

You are so right. That is exactly the reason I enjoyed Dawn '04. You have everything some what the same yet you had running zombies and the only way you changed was if you were attacked by a zombie. It was a fun movie. I also like the movie Severed. Not the greatest zombie flick but it worked. As long as what ever the situation is do it right, have it make sense, and make it fun to watch.

[acealive1]

That's true.

But, with all the zombie fiction out there, it's hard to come up with some situation that hasn't already been done.

college? that'd work. a high school setting>? yessir

[SRP76]

There was a chapter in a school in Dead City.

[acealive1]

a whole story could be good though :) one movie, college or high school baes