Why wont the EU take no for an answer...

[Tricky]

Here is a part of the email i just received from the "i want a referendum" campaign,it quotes what various EU leaders have said following the irish "no" vote, i find it pretty sinister the way they are trying to force this unwanted federal state onto people right across europe who actually really dont want it!


"EU leaders carry on with Lisbon Treaty regardless of Irish no vote

On 12 June, voters in Ireland rejected the EU Lisbon Treaty by 46.6% to 53.4% in a national referendum. Turnout was relatively high, at 53%.

However, despite the resounding no vote, EU leaders meeting in Brussels last week decided to press ahead regardless, agreeing that ratification of the Treaty should continue in other countries. They also agreed that Irish voters should eventually be asked to vote again, until they say 'yes'.

Despite claiming that they want to "respect" the Irish no vote, EU leaders across the whole of Europe have no intention of doing so. They are determined to press ahead with the Lisbon Treaty.

Here are just some of the extraordinary reactions to the Irish vote from Europe's leaders:

"They [the Irish] are bloody fools. They have been stuffing their faces at Europe's expense for years and now they dump us in the s***."

- Nicolas Sarkozy, French President (Times, 20 June)

"The Lisbon Treaty is not dead... It is imperative that they vote again."

- Valery Giscard d'Estaing, former French President and author of the EU Constitution (RTL, 19 June)

"I don't think you can say the treaty of Lisbon is dead even if the ratification process will be delayed."

- Jean-Pierre Jouyet, French Europe Minister (Reuters, 16 June)


"I am convinced that we need this Treaty. Therefore we are sticking with our goal for it to come into force. The ratification process must continue."

- Frank-Walter Steinmeier, German Foreign Minister (Reuters, 14 June)

"Of course we have to take the Irish referendum seriously. But a few million Irish cannot decide on behalf of 495 million Europeans."

- Wolfgang Schaeuble, German Interior Minister (Deutsche Welle, 15 June)

"We think it is a real cheek that the country that has benefited most from the EU should do this. There is no other Europe than this treaty. With all respect for the Irish vote, we cannot allow the huge majority of Europe to be duped by a minority of a minority of a minority."

- Axel Schäfer, SPD leader in the German Bundestag (Irish Times, 14 June)


The Treaty "will be applied, albeit a few months late."

- Lopez Garrido, Spanish Europe Minister (Forbes, 15 June)


"The Treaty is not dead. The Treaty is alive, and we will try to work to find a solution."

- Jose Barroso, European Commission President (Press Conference, 14 June)"



Dark clouds be gathering folks! :mad:

[Dillinger]

Dude, they want a one world government. Just like the elite of Canada, the US and Mexico want a North American Union. These guys are going to stop at nothing, even if it means destroying a country's sovereignty or ripping their constitution to shreds.

And they'll keep staging bombings and other false flag operations like 9/11 and 7/7 to get the people so scared that they'll accept a one world government and a damned surveillance camera in their face 24 hours a day.

[tju1973]

The real goal of the EU is coming to the surface. I am not against the EU as an idea-- or a Federal state, but to force it on unwanting nations is a virtual act of war. I am from the US, and I know our history is spotty at best, but I still believe in a personal right to self determination.

I agree , dark clouds are brewing. What are the provisions for a nation to leave the EU once in? Hypothetically, say the Irish are forced to submit to the will of the EU, and another nation (or nations) object, can they then vote to leave the EU until conditions are better?

This whole thing reeks of "One World Government"--there is a minor push to have this whole "North American Union" thing be a Western Hemisphere version of the EU-- I will tell you the only people that benefit from it with NAFTA right now are the rich-- Mexican truckers can haul loads from Mexico to Canada-- with the price of fuel, American truckers are being pushed out of being able to put food on the table...Eventually there will be a 360 degree backlash---

:(

[SRP76]

What's to stop them from just forming a Union without Ireland?

[Tricky]

If the treaty had been put to the british public (which our unelected arse of a prime minister refused us) it would have been shot down in flames on a bigger scale than the irish no vote.We are British,not european & the vast majority of us want to keep it that way,this whole thing reeks of Nazi germany/vichy french :eek: from what i can gather the majority of the ordinary people across europe are against this federalisation as well,but the leaders are refusing to let us have any kind of say!the whole thing will implode into civil war somewhere along the line,whether thats 5,10,20 or 30 years down the line as nations try to get their identity back
Heres how they are planning on carving our country up into different regions
http://www.britanniaradio.co.uk/images/eu2.jpg

disgraceful :mad:


What's to stop them from just forming a Union without Ireland?

By supposed law if even one EU member state rejects the lisbon treaty then it was supposed to be the end of the matter & it couldnt go ahead,but now they seem intent on making ireland vote again & again until they vote yes,and theres been talk of punishing ireland for voting no,but they havent really said what kind of punishment that would be,most likely cutting subsidies & trade.The Irish didnt like the british government on their soil hence the IRA,so i cant imagine them taking too kindly to an EU government stamping its authority on them!

[Khardis]

Good luck fighting that civil war without any guns, oh wait there's guns, the massive government trampling your rights has them.

[clanglee]

Ahhhh, what a bunch of whiney fascists. Erin Go Bragh!!!

[MinionZombie]

And you get arses saying "oh 4 million Irish stopped a thing that affected 500 million" - Ireland were the ONLY buggers to get the vote on it out of the 27 involved countries!

I have no problem trading with Europe, we've already been doing that for ages, and there's nout wrong with that - everybody's trading with everybody anyway!

But what's the point in having a world where everybody is governed under the same ways, and everybody just becomes some purple/brown mush (like when you put all the colours of paint together).

Each of the countries have different people, different cultures and different ways of doing things - you simply cannot control such a vast array of people under one way of doing things, a bunch of isolated suits commanding you from afar - it simply doesn't work, it won't work and the people don't want it.

Give each of the 27 countries the vote and we'll get a proper answer on it.

I think all this "vote again" stuff is absolutely shocking, not to mention completely illegal under the agreement as it stands anyway. It's the sort of thing you'd expect of Zimbabwe, but this is bloody ridiculous. It's shameful, disgusting and a complete affront to the democracy these suits pedal. It's ridiculous.

The fact that auditors say the state of the EU's books is shocking says it all. The auditors say it's incomprehensible, and that's what they've gotten to see.

Then there's the whole MEP thing, those bastards from all parties are living on the gravy train alright, they all bloody are.

I can't be doing with the EU constitution/treaty as you can tell.

What's wrong with each country being different, surely that's a great thing about Europe already, you can visit so many different places, peoples and cultures on one patch of land.

It's like here in the UK, legislation and government theories on things like public transport, all coming from a London perspective, doesn't work beyond London or at least similar cities - likewise, a collection of gravy-soaked suits in Brussels or what have you, lording it over 27 nations just doesn't work, and won't work, and is in fact wrong.

F*ck all this EU bollocks and give us all the bloody vote on it, and when Ireland say "no", they bloody mean it.

You also hear about people saying "oh they vote no cos they don't understand it" ... :eek:

So if you don't understand something, you HAVE to vote yes on it?!

Also, what's to say a bunch of people voting yes know what it's all about?

And also, if a bunch of politicians and suits DON'T understand it ... what the f*ck is going on?!

...

But then again, that's Labour for you, if the people don't tow your line, brow beat and bribe them until they do, or demand they vote again, or don't let them vote at all. Sickening.

It's like with 42 days - it scraped through with the tiniest majority. It then goes to the Lords where it most certainly will be rejected (and rightly so), then comes back to Parliament ... then Brown gets his dick out and invokes the Parliament Act, a very nasty piece of legislation that just allows them to ignore the Lords and barge it through regardless.

They don't listen, they think they know what's best. That's Labour's line, we're here to pay for them, rather than them being there to work for us.

Ah, the whole thing sickens me, but I'm not that pessimistic, because I know the people will make it bloody well known they don't want it. The suits can only go so far, a relative few suits versions hundreds of millions of people? :rockbrow:

I know which way I'm betting.

[Tricky]

Good luck fighting that civil war without any guns, oh wait there's guns, the massive government trampling your rights has them.

Whats to say the british army would take the side of the european government in the event of civil war though?and in any case,what makes the american people so safe from the government by holding guns?im pretty certain your pistols & semi-auto rifles wouldnt pierce the side of an abrams or bring a jet down if your government turned on you...ever read about the warsaw uprising 1944?it would end up pretty similar i imagine.

[EvilNed]

Whats to say the british army would take the side of the european government in the event of civil war though?and in any case,what makes the american people so safe from the government by holding guns?im pretty certain your pistols & semi-auto rifles wouldnt pierce the side of an abrams or bring a jet down if your government turned on you...ever read about the warsaw uprising 1944?it would end up pretty similar i imagine.

Besides, most countries have paramilitary institutions that are non-affiliated with the military anyways. I know we do, at least. Besides. Revolting against the Swedish government would be the easiest thing ever. Perhaps not as easy as in Iceland, but oh, wow, what are they going to do? Blockade our ports with their super hightech submarines, while their tanks fall apart from mechanical failure?

[Legion2213]

Why wont the EU take no for an answer...

Because they are dangerous power hungry scum.

http://planetquo.net/Machiavelli/eu-naz1-2%20(400%20x%20267).jpg

Big thanks to the Irish voting no on this, just like the only other two countries who were given a vote also voted no....anybody seeing a pattern here?

[AcesandEights]

and in any case,what makes the american people so safe from the government by holding guns?im pretty certain your pistols & semi-auto rifles wouldnt pierce the side of an abrams or bring a jet down if your government turned on you...ever read about the warsaw uprising 1944?it would end up pretty similar i imagine.

This has been discussed here several times. Some forum-goers hold--and no one knows what would happen for sure, of course--that if the government of the United States ever gets to the point where they give truly widespread orders for hostile action against its own citizenry, that a rift would occur between those who would not surrender their rights (and arms) and the government and that a large portion of US military forces would not continue under a long term of wanton killing or military action against their own people. Also, people will be quick to point out that many, many other insurgencies have lasted (and in some cases could be argued to have succeeded) against other modern powers. Couple this with the head start the US citizenry has on owning weapons, the size of the country and many other factors, and some people think that the threat of a government being able to get away with violent oppression is slim.

Keep in mind, I'm not stating an opinion one way or another, just answering your question, in brief. I do not wish to get pulled into a discussion on the matter, as it would be tangential to the main discussion, not something I'm interested in and would be responding with too much interest to a troll post, anyway.

[tju1973]

Whats to say the british army would take the side of the european government in the event of civil war though?and in any case,what makes the american people so safe from the government by holding guns?im pretty certain your pistols & semi-auto rifles wouldnt pierce the side of an abrams or bring a jet down if your government turned on you...ever read about the warsaw uprising 1944?it would end up pretty similar i imagine.

It is true that my personal "arsenal" would do Jack Diddly Squat against an M1Abrams, but there are millions of Americans who will not give up their weapns, and will fight if need be-- that being said, although the military follows the orders of the government, you actually swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and are not obligated to follow an unlawful order-- meaning most troops will not fire on American citizens just to "put them down"-- I do not think the US will support the trouncing of Irish rights, maybe not to the extent of military intervention, but face it-- no European power could stand up to the US military machine-- even with us be overstreatched in Iraq and Afghanistan-- for that matter, I would imagine even the UK could go just about anywhere with maybe the exception of Russia and enforce her will-- the better thing is that it would take the UK attacking the US for us not to support her (UK)...So for better or worse, we are there--


Why wont the EU take no for an answer...

Because they are dangerous power hungry scum.

http://planetquo.net/Machiavelli/eu-naz1-2%20(400%20x%20267).jpg

Big thanks to the Irish voting no on this, just like the only other two countries who were given a vote also voted no....anybody seeing a pattern here?

Agreed-- the EU will not matter if it tramples on member states individual freedoms and wishes. There will come a time when the French want to be French-- Italians want to be Italians-- with the mush making of the EU, there only exists the long term possibility of an internal conflict--ie Civil War (if only by economic means)..

Bad times ahead for everybody-- us in America included...:(

[Wooley]

Just say no to government, kids. They only exist to get bigger and screw the citizen.

[Khardis]

Whats to say the british army would take the side of the european government in the event of civil war though?and in any case,what makes the american people so safe from the government by holding guns?im pretty certain your pistols & semi-auto rifles wouldnt pierce the side of an abrams or bring a jet down if your government turned on you...ever read about the warsaw uprising 1944?it would end up pretty similar i imagine.

Tell that the the Vietnamese. And IM sure the British army would be divided, some would leave the military and go home to defend their loved ones, others would stay to oppress their fellow Englishman. And We don't just have little pistols and semi autos. We have access to many of the same weapons the military has. And a semi auto AR-15 can easily be made into a fully automatic gun in a pinch.

Then theres numbers...

Theres something like 45-50 million gun owner households in the United States. And there is just under 2 million Soldiers in our military.

Thats a lot of civilians to put down, almost Zombie like.

[clanglee]

almost Zombie like.

But with guns!!

[SRP76]

I'm wondering something:

Where does it say that the EU is going to "trample the rights of the people" in member states, and not let "Italians be Italians", and so forth?

In other words, exactly what do they want to do to you that your own governement isn't already doing to you? You're already being ruled by a government. How is joining with everyone else's government any different?

[clanglee]

These are completely separate countries with very different cultures all attempting to mash together statelike. People are concerned about their national identity, which. . .as an American. . I'm sure you can understand. It's expecially bad for them, these countries have been around for hundreds of years, thats a lot of history and a lot of culture.

[SRP76]

People are concerned about their national identity, which. . .as an American. . I'm sure you can understand.

So you're saying that this is just a case of not wanting to be associated with "those people"?

[Danny]

So you're saying that this is just a case of not wanting to be associated with "those people"?

for the uk as a whole?, definitely, the uks very multicultural, though the flip-side is people will do there damnedest to stay them yknow?, British are British, welsh are welsh, scots are scots, scousers are violent, alcoholic football fans who bury there murder victims under the patios there working on, the list goes on.

[tju1973]

for the uk as a whole?, definitely, the uks very multicultural, though the flip-side is people will do there damnedest to stay them yknow?, British are British, welsh are welsh, scots are scots, scousers are violent, alcoholic football fans who bury there murder victims under the patios there working on, the list goes on.

Remember that Scousers also steal your hubcaps--:D

CHELSEA!!!!

[clanglee]

So you're saying that this is just a case of not wanting to be associated with "those people"?

Pretty much yeah. . :D