Good idea! Benefit claimers forced to work after 2 years!

[Neil]

Anyone see anything wrong with this? As long as it doesn't mean loads of expense trying to chase and make people work (properly), sounds like a great idea!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm

[MinionZombie]

But it really shows how desperate Labour are now though, and regardless of my political leanings, they are playing defensive catch up on such policies by using ideas that other people and parties came up with first (even though this particular thing is partly based on an American system, correct?)

Anyway, there definitely needs to be something done to discourage scroungers, but also I think the actual job sector needs to be better - our economy is pretty much solely based on service culture, so that's all about people consuming stuff, and that isn't good.

Us Brits need to get back to making stuff ourselves, because we have the talent - the trouble is the talent is f*cking off elsewhere and building stuff for other people. We need to realise that Britain is no longer in it's hey day, there's no more collosals like Leyland Cars around (that company was an absolute monstrosity though).

Once the country wakes up and stops going on about "we used to be a great country", then maybe we can get on with doing something new.

Essentially, Britain is just lying around eating and sleeping all the time ... we've become Hedonism Bot!

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7448/hedonismbot800bis4hp.jpg

Meanwhile other countries are having their boom and making tons of stuff for us to consume.

...

Mind you, while I'm on this rant, you'd think the developing countries would want to develop using modern methods and cleaner energy, rather than the energy relics from a couple hundred years ago? If they're leading the way now, lead it energy wise as well if you're apparently so powerful and forward moving!

Okay...I'll shaddup now, got off on a right rant. :p

[Chic Freak]

I don't see the problem as long as the people doing community service get a fair amount of benefits in return. A sh!t job is a sh!t job, who cares whether it's an employer or the government paying you your sh!t wage?

[MinionZombie]

I don't see the problem as long as the people doing community service get a fair amount of benefits in return. A sh!t job is a sh!t job, who cares whether it's an employer or the government paying you your sh!t wage?
At the very least - the community and country at large is getting something out of them getting benefits.

It's like how I think with prisoners - they should do some sort of work that benefits the community at large, like picking up litter and cleaning up road sides and stuff like that - all under guard of course, like a less brutal chain gang if you will.

Anyway, I think the idea to get people into a job, even if it's sh*t, after they've had no work for a year is good, because they shouldn't just be allowed to sit on their arse and get free money.

In the end, such as this one year marker thing, they should start doing something which:

1) Pays the tax payer back, through something which services the community.
2) Gets them back into the work ethic.

Both of which are important.

I think the tax payer should always get something out of having to pay for a bunch of stuff, such as this, whenever possible.

[Neil]

Anyway, I think the idea to get people into a job, even if it's sh*t, after they've had no work for a year is good, because they shouldn't just be allowed to sit on their arse and get free money.

In the end, such as this one year marker thing, they should start doing something which:

1) Pays the tax payer back, through something which services the community.
2) Gets them back into the work ethic.

Both of which are important.

I think the tax payer should always get something out of having to pay for a bunch of stuff, such as this, whenever possible.

Indeed... We seem to be in the situation at the moment where people feel absolutely entitled to get money for literally doing nothing... Surely that isn't right :rolleyes:

[capncnut]

I think its a terrible idea personally and one that is not particularly hard to evade. I forsee a lot of dole spongers leaving the Job Centre at the 23 month mark and returning 3-6 months later for a new claim. And that only creates much more hard work for client advisors and increases unemployment statistics.

Some time ago, I was unemployed for a few months and the amount of violence/threatening behaviour you see when a client advisor tries to send someone on a job scheme, it's horrific. I have personally seen a thug lift up a PC monitor and throw it out of a second floor window. Sending them to work for a pittance will only magnify that and you'll be reading in the news about maimed Job Centre workers and the like. Not to mention security guards.

Also, I can imagine the immense paperwork sending someone to work will cause for said advisors. They are minimum wage earning motherf**kers already and work their bollocks off. I really cannot see how this is going to benefit anyone but the businesses that these unemployed sheep are sent to.

While I do agree that it is good to get a dole sponger back into the work ethic, how long will they have to serve at said job until they are paid a fair wage? Surely one can see the problems here.

[Neil]

I think its a terrible idea personally and one that is not particularly hard to evade. I forsee a lot of dole spongers leaving the Job Centre at the 23 month mark and returning 3-6 months later for a new claim. And that only creates much more hard work for client advisors and increases unemployment statistics.

Some time ago, I was unemployed for a few months and the amount of violence/threatening behaviour you see when a client advisor tries to send someone on a job scheme, it's horrific. I have personally seen a thug lift up a PC monitor and throw it out of a second floor window. Sending them to work for a pittance will only magnify that and you'll be reading in the news about maimed Job Centre workers and the like. Not to mention security guards.

Also, I can imagine the immense paperwork sending someone to work will cause for said advisors. They are minimum wage earning motherf**kers already and work their bollocks off. I really cannot see how this is going to benefit anyone but the businesses that these unemployed sheep are sent to.

While I do agree that it is good to get a dole sponger back into the work ethic, how long will they have to serve at said job until they are paid a fair wage? Surely one can see the problems here.

Worth a try...

If someone goes off the dole for 3-6 months, and then comes back on, then good... It means they haven't collected 3-6 months of my money!

As for not turning up, or threatening behaviour. Don't give them money for a month... Next time two months... Next time three months in prison... And so on.. Spongers and scum need to treated as such, not just given free money while the rest of the country supports them...


I can definately see problems, but worth trying something to get some scumbags off my taxes!

[Mike70]

all of y'all need to move to the US with a rush.

[capncnut]

I can definately see problems, but worth trying something to get some scumbags off my taxes!
I do agree with that to some extent cos I don't like it either. It's just that it completely f**ks the innocent benefit claimers, who have legitimate reasons for not being able to work or to find work.


As for not turning up, or threatening behaviour. Don't give them money for a month... Next time two months... Next time three months in prison... And so on.. Spongers and scum need to treated as such, not just given free money while the rest of the country supports them...
I think something like this is already in effect where they can (in some cases) stop a problematic sponger's claim for up to 12 months.

[Neil]

It's just that it completely f**ks the innocent benefit claimers, who have legitimate reasons for not being able to work or to find work.How so?

[capncnut]

Well I worked in an employment agency in London for three years from 97-99 and it is very similar to how the Job Centre works. We had all sorts of weirded out clients who knew how to work, wasn't shy of working but certain conditions made sure they would never get a job.

One girl I remember had a voice so low it was almost a whisper. Even if she shouted it was little more than a low moan. She was a bright young twenty-something with a good academic background. But she had attended over 50 job interviews and failed every one of them miserably because her lack of clear communication. She had been bounced from job club to job club at the the dole (and trust me Neil, those schemes do F**K all mate - they are just there to keep unemployment statistics down). Literally nothing could be done for this girl and I think she had been a good 18 months on the dole.

In the end she successfully landed a temping job but it was way beneath her abilities. It's just one example I could give of many.

[Legion2213]

The problem with this is that it will be implemented by a labour juntaship or whatever they call themselves. They will do what they allways do, pick on the weak, soft targets. Little 60 year old women threatened with no money if they don't go out painting fences in the dead of winter....you watch.

And what about those who may have worked damn hard for 30 years, paid a ****-ton of taxes, are they going to be forced to take part when they fall on hard times? I think those sort of people DO have a right to a few years benefits without the nu-liebour gestapo threatining them with forced labour camps or whatever.

I simply don't trust this shower of scum and the unelected PM that call themselves "the government". Robert Mugabe and the Zanu-PF have more legitimacy in my eyes...

[Neil]

Well I worked in an employment agency in London for three years from 97-99 and it is very similar to how the Job Centre works. We had all sorts of weirded out clients who knew how to work, wasn't shy of working but certain conditions made sure they would never get a job.

One girl I remember had a voice so low it was almost a whisper. Even if she shouted it was little more than a low moan. She was a bright young twenty-something with a good academic background. But she had attended over 50 job interviews and failed every one of them miserably because her lack of clear communication. She had been bounced from job club to job club at the the dole (and trust me Neil, those schemes do F**K all mate - they are just there to keep unemployment statistics down). Literally nothing could be done for this girl and I think she had been a good 18 months on the dole.

In the end she successfully landed a temping job but it was way beneath her abilities. It's just one example I could give of many.

Sorry, what I meant was, how does the scheme proposed 'completely f**k the innocent benefit claimers?'

[capncnut]

Sorry, what I meant was, how does the scheme proposed 'completely f**k the innocent benefit claimers?'
Because fully trained people who are unlucky in finding work are going to be forced to work 9 to 5, 5 days a week for £100 per fortnight. That's just pants mate.


And what about those who may have worked damn hard for 30 years, paid a ****-ton of taxes, are they going to be forced to take part when they fall on hard times?
Absolutely spot on. Age is also a factor in not being able to land a job nowadays.

[MinionZombie]

Well ... it's about time something was done about it ... but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Labour cock it up, they usually do. They take an idea, f*ck it up, then bugger up implementing it, then screw up keeping it going, then they have a "review" and waste some more time, effort and money.

I wouldn't trust Labour with a sheet of paper.

[capncnut]

Well ... it's about time something was done about it ... but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Labour cock it up, they usually do. They take an idea, f*ck it up, then bugger up implementing it, then screw up keeping it going, then they have a "review" and waste some more time, effort and money.
Oh, Labour will f**k it up spectacularly.

At first they introduced a series of hefty job clubs which acted as a. a way to keep unemployment figures down and b. to remove spongers from their sheets figuring the wave upon wave of full-time schemes will force them to sign off. Fell on it's arse spectacularly, hence this. :rolleyes:

A scheme which some Labour c**t on GMTV said a while ago 'has proved successful in Australia so we're introducing it here and anticipating similar results.'

Believe me, dear MZ, this will fail on an epic scale.

[Neil]

Because fully trained people who are unlucky in finding work are going to be forced to work 9 to 5, 5 days a week for £100 per fortnight. That's just pants mate.


Absolutely spot on. Age is also a factor in not being able to land a job nowadays.

True... But given the list of the following three:-
1) Not trying to work and sponging off people who are.
2) Trying to work, but able to.
3) Working and paying for the above two.
...I put those in order of preference
(3)
(2)
(1)

I have no concern about (1), a bit of concern about (2), and most concern about (3).

The current system expects (1) to pay for everyone and just put up with it... And if the costs keep going up to achieve this... you simply make them pay more...

Someone has to be 'put out' a bit in this scheme, some where, some how... Not everyone one can win surely...

[capncnut]

The current system expects (1) to pay for everyone and just put up with it... And if the costs keep going up to achieve this... you simply make them pay more...
Again I do agree but I think there should be exceptions to the rule. Because some unmotivated lazy turd wants to squeeze every drop of our taxes doesn't mean that the legits should have to participate in such a diabolical work scheme. It's criminal and a breach of civil liberties.

I mean if someone doesn't show proof of jobsearch activity then f**k yeah, round 'em up and sling 'em on the workbus. I wouldn't complain about that approach at all.

[Danny]

i think its a good idea to get the lay bastards working, but at the same time this could mean people who could be in constant pain form working, bad back ct. being forced to work to live even if it makes there life hell.

[Neil]

round 'em up and sling 'em on the workbus. I wouldn't complain about that approach at all.Bagsy be driver :)

[capncnut]

Bagsy be driver :)
Nah, I'll just give you the remote controls and you can drive 'em wherever you wish. ;)

[Legion2213]

I think this will prove to be illegal anyway. You can't make people work without union representation and the full protection of employment laws, the government will be the employer of these people, so anything less than full employment rights will be a breach of human rights. There is also a question of pensions, employers have to provide pension schemes do they not?

[clanglee]

Sounds like a crappy version of the "New Deal" to me

[Neil]

I think this will prove to be illegal anyway. You can't make people work without union representation and the full protection of employment laws, the government will be the employer of these people, so anything less than full employment rights will be a breach of human rights. There is also a question of pensions, employers have to provide pension schemes do they not?

Where's my human rights not to pay a bunch of loafers to loaf around spending the money I've had to work for?

[Legion2213]

Neil, are you unemployment proof? Hard times are coming to this country, you may find yourself in a really bad rut one day and then you will be asking "where is my right to the benefits I paid for" when the man at the dole is telling you you have to work for benefits you have already earned.

Please don't believe this BS about dolies living the high life on other peoples money, it's not happening. I've been on the dole mate, it's a f**king ****ty existence...£60 a week does not amount to a glamourous lifestyle once you have bought your weekly food, gas and electric etc, but rest assured, folks who have paid into the system for decades (like you) will be treated as sub-class citizens should you fall on hard times under these new proposals.

And I can 100% guarantee you that the first victims of this new regime will be the good, decent folks who can be bullied, the soft targets like the old people who obey rules, the mentally ill who can be coerced etc, those who know how to work the system will do what they have always done and work the system...

Be careful what you wish for.

[Tricky]

i think its a good idea to get the lay bastards working, but at the same time this could mean people who could be in constant pain form working, bad back ct. being forced to work to live even if it makes there life hell.

people with "bad backs" could quite easily be administrators,toll booth operatives,quality controllers etc,no excuses in my book ;)

[capncnut]

people with "bad backs" could quite easily be administrators,toll booth operatives,quality controllers etc,no excuses in my book ;)
Then again, people with bad backs could have legitimate ailments...

[Khardis]

Then again, people with bad backs could have legitimate ailments...

So they should get provided for forever? Bad back? Then find a job that doesnt require so much lifting.

[capncnut]

So they should get provided for forever? Bad back? Then find a job that doesnt require so much lifting.
Again, it's not that simple. How is a crusty old dude with a bad back (who might have paid his taxes all his life) able to successfully land a job interview in this day and age? Even as a temp.

[Tricky]

Again, it's not that simple. How is a crusty old dude with a bad back (who might have paid his taxes all his life) able to successfully land a job interview in this day and age? Even as a temp.

A crusty old dude would already be retired,theres no excuse for people in their 20's,30's & 40's to be claiming they cant work cos of "bad backs" or "depression" etc, ive been through clinical depression myself yet still managed to drag my arse out of bed every day & go to work :)
Oh aye & most dolies get their gas,electricity & water paid for by the state,so whatever they get as dole money is theirs for food or whatever (i see a lot standing outside betting shops at half 8 in the morning drinking tins of lager waiting for the bookies to open in hull)

[Trencher]

I was unenployed for so long that I got job through the goverment in a work for welfare program. All who worked with me were 18-50 years old men who were in physical shape to work. It was a small workplace where we drove around and carried stuff and did other non skilled labour. It was not to bad but there was a lot of people there who struggled with drug addiction and related mental problems, which again reduced the people who could work there. We had a good leaders but the key to it working was that it was a small operation. We were from eight to five guys at work but another group were allmost twenty guys and they did not get much done and a lot of people dropped out.