Running zombies

[horrormad]

How many of you hate running zombies? well I do I think It stupid how the hell are you suppose to survive with zombs running after you the best zombies are the old original walking ones much cooler and scarier.

[Bub666]

I hate running zombies.They're not scary.They don't make any sense to me.In a movie with running zombies your chances to survive are zero.That's no fun.

[Doc]

I like the slow moving zombies too. But I like DOTD'04 a somewhat, and I think the running zombies are very scary too(shut up). I can go with either walking or running, if the movie's good.

[horrormad]

I like the slow moving zombies too. But I like DOTD'04 a somewhat, and I think the running zombies are very scary too(shut up). I can go with either walking or running, if the movie's good.


If I watch any movie and It has running zombies In It I dont like It.

except return of the living dead.

[Bub666]

Return of the living dead is the only good running zombie movie.

[AnxietyDilemma]

Personally, I feel that if the dead were to return to life, they wouldn't even be able to move. The re animated brain wouldn't have access to or be able to control any of it's limbs. I'd imagine bodily fluids would be stagnant, and brain capacity would only be restored slightly seeing as the majority of the brain would be dead. Furthermore, I can't imagine how'd they'd be able to see. Try to imagine an eye without any fluids and the inability to blink, or worse yet imagine a zombie trying to close it's dry eyelid on a dry eye.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I find running zombies to be completely unbelievable.


I hate running zombies.They're not scary.They don't make any sense to me.In a movie with running zombies your chances to survive are zero.That's no fun.

They lack the creepiness factor, they create a sense of urgency so that's a little scary, but they don't scare me psychologically.

Sure, you may be able to just waltz right by the shamblers, but they're everywhere.

[SRP76]

I am definitely against runners. Shambling is what makes a zombie a zombie; if you're going to have zombies that do everything a human can, you may as well not use zombies at all. Just use "bad guy" humans for your movies.

[major jay]

Return of the living dead is the only good running zombie movie.

I like the zombies in Nightrmare City. Though they're not technically zombies.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/tcrine_photos/nightmare_city02.jpg
They look great too! Like they just pulled there heads out of a cow's rump.

[Bub666]

I like the zombies in Nightrmare City. Though they're not technically zombies.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/tcrine_photos/nightmare_city02.jpg
They look great too! Like they just pulled there heads out of a cow's rump.

I've never seen it.Is it any good.

[Shadowofthedead]

we have running zombies because everything in our day to day life is fast paced so zombies got an upgrade. i find them incredibly interesting. times change things change. honestly seeing a movies with shamblers and 30 guys with guns runnin through them thats no fun. the directors and producers arent trying to please just you they are trying to please the masses. thats why romero chose to give them brains in LAND instead of making them fast. i dont understand why noone here can understand and appreciate the runners for what they are. they pleased you with zombies in the first place you should be greatful for that instead of b*tching about it all the time.:mad:

[horrormad]

we have running zombies because everything in our day to day life is fast paced so zombies got an upgrade. i find them incredibly interesting. times change things change. honestly seeing a movies with shamblers and 30 guys with guns runnin through them thats no fun. the directors and producers arent trying to please just you they are trying to please the masses. thats why romero chose to give them brains in LAND instead of making them fast. i dont understand why noone here can understand and appreciate the runners for what they are. they pleased you with zombies in the first place you should be greatful for that instead of b*tching about it all the time.:mad:

Everone one has their own opinion we are not bitching about It all we are saying Is that we hate runners.

[Shadowofthedead]

well i asked for action and i got it. im expressing my opinion ill start an "I LOVE ZOMBIES OF ALL TYPES" thread and see what everyone has to say

[horrormad]

well i asked for action and i got it. im expressing my opinion ill start an "I LOVE ZOMBIES OF ALL TYPES" thread and see what everyone has to say

Good for you I will post what I think about them on there.

[C5NOTLD]

Hate fast moving zombies.

The zombies should be at various stages. Someone who is a "fresh zombie" should move slow as they are trying to get control back over the body.

The longer they are zombies the more difficult it should be to walk/move as rigamortis sits in.

[Shadowofthedead]

what would be nice is to see a movie where they start as runners and degrade into shamblers as rot and time set in. that would be hella cool:elol:

[horrormad]

what would be nice is to see a movie where they start as runners and degrade into shamblers as rot and time set in. that would be hella cool:elol:

That would be pointless really how could that happen?

[Doc]

I actually think runners breathed new life into the genre. Now I'm not saying every zombie movie from now on should have runners, and I'm sure there will be many made that don't measure up to Romero's films.

[Shadowofthedead]

doc those quotes are from gremlins deuce heck of a movie. im not advocating runners at all im just stating that there is a call for this tye of zombie. we could argue the flyin zombie head in some itallian films is bad but the zombi franchise and its associates kick booty in there own way by being gory as heck

[MontagMOI]

I like the zombies in Nightrmare City. Though they're not technically zombies.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/tcrine_photos/nightmare_city02.jpg
They look great too! Like they just pulled there heads out of a cow's rump.

I love Nightmare City but for all the wrong reasons.... Hugo Stigitz has got to be the most awkward and crappy hero ever but he is great.

For anyone that is a fan of the godawful effects, check out ShriekShow's DVD of Zombi 3 For an interview witn Franco Di Girolami (the FX 'maestro' responsible for Zombi 3, Nightmnare City and Fulci's Black Cat) it is soooo bad it's funny :D

[Legion2213]

Runners are f**king horrific, I'd rather face 10 GAR shamblers with my bare fists than 2 Runners from "Dawn 04" or 2 Infected from "28 Day Later" (even if I was armed).

Runners are scarier, more dangerous and far more lethal than GAR slow pokes...or let's put it another way, what sort of zed would you rather be trapped in a room with?

Edit: I'd rather watch fast, brainless savage zeds than slow-ass, gun toting smart boys like "big daddy" any day of the week.

[SymphonicX]

This is the HPOTD equivilant to a bunch of Star Wars fans arguing about how crap Episodes 1-3 are.

[bassman]

I prefer flying zombies.:stunned:

[Doc]

Runners are f**king horrific, I'd rather face 10 GAR shamblers with my bare fists than 2 Runners from "Dawn 04" or 2 Infected from "28 Day Later" (even if I was armed).

Runners are scarier, more dangerous and far more lethal than GAR slow pokes...or let's put it another way, what sort of zed would you rather be trapped in a room with?

Edit: I'd rather watch fast, brainless savage zeds than slow-ass, gun toting smart boys like "big daddy" any day of the week.


I agree with you here sir. Runners are much scarier but, shambers are a much better cinematic device.

[Trin]

I think that shamblers are scarier, but mostly because the movies with shamblers tend to focus on the psychological aspects of the situation, whereas the movies with runners tend to focus on action and fast-paced survival.

I don't think there's any reason that runners couldn't have the same focus on psychological horror though. The I Am Legend book does a wonderful job of portraying isolation and the emotional strain of survival even though the creatures were fast and nimble.

However, the Legend movie, 28 Days/Weeks Later, and Dawn '04 tend to be action flicks. They minimize the time spent exploring the long term effects of isolation and survival in favor of flashy action sequences.

I also think shamblers are more interesting from the perspective of placing yourself in the situation. With runners there's often no analyzing the situation. You fight, flee, or die. The plot only rarely has to deal with decision making on the part of the characters (and as we've so often seen they make truly laughable choices). With shamblers you have some time to think and plan. It's fun to ask, "What would I do?" I won't comment on the current round of shambler movies and character choices, though.

[Skippy911sc]

I enjoy both for different reasons, that being said...

I think the attraction of the shambler was the numbers...if they didn't show the huge numbers then it was not all that scary...Diary. I think the scene in DOTD 04 in which the camera pans up over the Mall parking lot and shows thousands of these things is fantastic and scary. The fact they could run as well was even that more terrifying. The debate over which is more realistic is a little ...silly. None of them exist and none are realistic...which world would I rather exist in...the shamblers. I think in this MTV world we live all movies have gotten over excited and kids can't sit still long enough to enjoy a plot line...so this is my ideas on walking and running Z's

[Tricky]

I dont see a problem with running zombies,especially the "fresh" ones!i think they should turn into shamblers as their brains & bodies deteriorate though :)

[major jay]

I've never seen it.Is it any good.

Well it's an acquired taste. It was made, by the Italians, to cash in on Dawn of the Dead's success and it comes across, to me, like Dawn on crack. If you're into that sort of movie it's highly entertaining.


I love Nightmare City but for all the wrong reasons.... Hugo Stigitz has got to be the most awkward and crappy hero ever but he is great.

For anyone that is a fan of the godawful effects, check out ShriekShow's DVD of Zombi 3 For an interview witn Franco Di Girolami (the FX 'maestro' responsible for Zombi 3, Nightmnare City and Fulci's Black Cat) it is soooo bad it's funny :D

I need to check that out.
There's also an interview with Lenzi on the Nightmare City dvd that's a real head shaker. He treats the movie very seriously and besides the way the infected can be killed insists he didn't rip of Romero's flicks.

[Andy]

I Think both are scary, but in their own ways.. both are good, but neither are better than the other, runners have good points and bad points as do shamblers, but i do think they have brought something new to the zombie genre and like it or not, their here.

[DubiousComforts]

Sprinting corpses have more to do with ALIENS than the living dead genre. It worked in Return of the Living Dead due to it being a black comedy, but you'll never have another film like the original NIGHT if the antagonists are moving so fast that you barely get a glimpse of them.

[Shadowofthedead]

someone should make a remake of notld with runners and do a run through dawn and day and land where the runners get slow and then smart. ha that would be amazingly sexy.:elol:

[Trin]

The debate over which is more realistic is a little ...silly. None of them exist and none are realistic...I get what you're saying, but I don't find it silly at all. Zombies almost by definition are dead bodies reanimated in some fashion as mindless automatons. Physical and mental limitations are commonly accepted to be inherent with zombies. Running/jumping zombies stretch the definition pretty far. They are almost something else entirely.

Is a running zombie less impossible than a shambling one? No. They're both impossible. But it's harder to suspend disbelief. For a reanimated dead body to be stiff and slow makes more sense than fast and nimble. Were they infected humans (ala 28 Days) or vampires then it makes sense because those types of creatures are not defined within the confines of a reanimated dead body.

Clearly it's silly to get into debate at any level of detail over the biology and physics of dead body reanimation. They're both impossible within the bounds of science. But within the fictional confines of zombies existing at all, at least in my mind shamblers make more sense than runners. To me that makes them more scary because they're closer to something that might actually exist.

[DEAD BEAT]

How many of you hate running zombies? well I do I think It stupid how the hell are you suppose to survive with zombs running after you the best zombies are the old original walking ones much cooler and scarier.

Hum.... running zombies? My hemroides bleed for you!;)

You forgot to mention screaming zombies, those suck 2 makes you wanna stick something in their mouth to shut them up!:D

[sandrock74]

Aren't the slow zombies dangerous enough?? Giving a zombie the ability to run is like arming a werewolf with a shotgun! It's overkill.

[Doc]

I get what you're saying, but I don't find it silly at all. Zombies almost by definition are dead bodies reanimated in some fashion as mindless automatons. Physical and mental limitations are commonly accepted to be inherent with zombies. Running/jumping zombies stretch the definition pretty far. They are almost something else entirely.

Is a running zombie less impossible than a shambling one? No. They're both impossible. But it's harder to suspend disbelief. For a reanimated dead body to be stiff and slow makes more sense than fast and nimble. Were they infected humans (ala 28 Days) or vampires then it makes sense because those types of creatures are not defined within the confines of a reanimated dead body.

Clearly it's silly to get into debate at any level of detail over the biology and physics of dead body reanimation. They're both impossible within the bounds of science. But within the fictional confines of zombies existing at all, at least in my mind shamblers make more sense than runners. To me that makes them more scary because they're closer to something that might actually exist.

According to the most beloved Ernie Kaltenbruener of the Resurrection Funeral Home (21702 East Central, Louisville, Kentucky): “Rigor mortis starts in the brain. And it spreads down through the internal organs and finally settles in the muscles. It loosens up after a while, but it can be broken out…'manually' as they say, by flexing the muscles.”

Bodily movement is achieved by the contraction and relaxation of different muscle groups, working together. If a fresh corpse is reanimated not too long after it initially expires, rigor mortis wouldn’t have the time to effectively cause the stiffness that most fans associate with zombies. And, even if the corpse was in an advanced state of rigor mortis when it revived, it would work itself out of that stiffness in a relatively short time as it moves around on its own accord.

[horrormad]

Aren't the slow zombies dangerous enough?? Giving a zombie the ability to run is like arming a werewolf with a shotgun! It's overkill.


That totally true that what Im trying to tell the people It Impossible to survive something like that.

[Neil]

That totally true that what Im trying to tell the people It Impossible to survive something like that.

Dude! You really need to proof read what you type before pressing that 'Submit' button...

[horrormad]

Dude! You really need to proof read what you type before pressing that 'Submit' button...


Have you got a problem with me because It looks like everyone In this forum has.

[Marie]

Have you got a problem with me because It looks like everyone In this forum has.

Speaking for myself and my observations, the problem isn't so much with you as your incompressible postings. All Neil did was ask that you check them before sending. Chill.

M_

[Yojimbo]

Have you got a problem with me because It looks like everyone In this forum has.

Dude, I agree with Marie. Don't take it personally, but your postings are hard to follow due to the way you write them. Again, not a personal attack.

Also, just because people do not agree with what you post does not mean that they specifically have a problem with you. People frequently do not agree with things I post and it does not mean that they are attacking me just because they disagree with the content of my posting.

[major jay]

Yeah man, don't let these booger eaters get you down.

[Mike70]

i don't necessarily care one way or the other. i do prefer the classic shambling type of zombie but if a movie with runners in it is well done and entertaining, i really have no problem with them.

[AnxietyDilemma]

[QUOTE=Doc;150708
And, even if the corpse was in an advanced state of rigor mortis when it revived, it would work itself out of that stiffness in a relatively short time as it moves around on its own accord.[/QUOTE]

The thing is, if a living person has a degree of damage to their brain or nervous system, they can experience paralysis.

So who's to say that a reanimated body that is suffering from obvious brain damage would have the same level of control over their body as an NFL running back? These are bodies that were obviously brain dead at one time, meaning parts of their brain would be rendered useless despite the reanimation and you'd have to figure that the level of reanimation would be very basic. Isn't this explained by Doctor Logan in "Day Of The Dead"?

I don't even find the limber movements of Romero's zombies to be realistic, they appear to be living people pretending to move like zombies, but that's exactly what they are and that's about the best you can hope for.

Beyond that, I'd imagine a reanimated body would obviously be functioning with stagnant bodily fluids, meaning the joints wouldn't be properly lubricated and wouldn't be able to function up to par.

[Minerva_Zombi]

Slow zombies are much better cinematic villians just because, they are really the villians. We are. Slow zombies creep up on you. Fast zombies pretty much take the idea, and dumb it up for people with the mind of a child.

[Marie]

For me at least the idea of running zombies should go to the next level, by this I mean, as a friend of mine said, you should have a movie where whenever anyone dies, part of the zombie transformation is they revive wearing track shorts:D

M_

[Tricky]

[QUOTE=horrormad93;149805] well I do I think It stupid how the hell are you suppose to survive with zombs running after you QUOTE]

Your not supposed to survive,thats the point!thats what made them in their own right scary because they were relentless violent bastards,like the infected in 28 days.The slow romero zombies are creepy but not really scary,just a shambling shooting gallery.

[Trin]

According to the most beloved Ernie Kaltenbruener of the Resurrection Funeral Home (21702 East Central, Louisville, Kentucky): “Rigor mortis starts in the brain. And it spreads down through the internal organs and finally settles in the muscles. It loosens up after a while, but it can be broken out…'manually' as they say, by flexing the muscles.”

Bodily movement is achieved by the contraction and relaxation of different muscle groups, working together. If a fresh corpse is reanimated not too long after it initially expires, rigor mortis wouldn’t have the time to effectively cause the stiffness that most fans associate with zombies. And, even if the corpse was in an advanced state of rigor mortis when it revived, it would work itself out of that stiffness in a relatively short time as it moves around on its own accord.I think that's an excellent point and thanks for the clarification.

Let me restate my argument another way. In my mind a large part of the shambling and stiffness of zombies is based on the idea that the reanimated brain is not functioning up to par. The brain is operating at a reduced functional level. Muscle control is affected similarly to a stroke victim or some forms of retardation. Personality is affected. Decision making is reduced to the most rudimentary. So where runners get confusing is that they've retained the brain's ability to control the body to such a fine degree but have lost the reasoning and personality aspects. That kind of transformation makes more sense with a virus that could reasonably attack areas of the brain. Death and reanimation doesn't seem like it could be so calculated.

I will say again - if a movie based on runners tried to have a creepy survival oriented plot rather than one based heavily on action - that movie would likely be just as good as any movie with shamblers and could propel the genre to new heights.

[Doc]

So who's to say that a reanimated body that is suffering from obvious brain damage would have the same level of control over their body as an NFL running back? These are bodies that were obviously brain dead at one time, meaning parts of their brain would be rendered useless despite the reanimation and you'd have to figure that the level of reanimation would be very basic. Isn't this explained by Doctor Logan in "Day Of The Dead"?

I like Logan but, he was a nut-job. Sure, he had all of these great theories 'n stuff, but he was also talking to his mother and sexually molesting ghouls when no one else was around. So, why should his theories on anything be gold?




I think that's an excellent point and thanks for the clarification.

Let me restate my argument another way. In my mind a large part of the shambling and stiffness of zombies is based on the idea that the reanimated brain is not functioning up to par. The brain is operating at a reduced functional level. Muscle control is affected similarly to a stroke victim or some forms of retardation. Personality is affected. Decision making is reduced to the most rudimentary. So where runners get confusing is that they've retained the brain's ability to control the body to such a fine degree but have lost the reasoning and personality aspects. That kind of transformation makes more sense with a virus that could reasonably attack areas of the brain. Death and reanimation doesn't seem like it could be so calculated.

I will say again - if a movie based on runners tried to have a creepy survival oriented plot rather than one based heavily on action - that movie would likely be just as good as any movie with shamblers and could propel the genre to new heights.


Good point sir and well-thought out.:)

[Yojimbo]

I like Logan but, he was a nut-job. Sure, he had all of these great theories 'n stuff, but he was also talking to his mother and sexually molesting ghouls when no one else was around.



Dude, where did you get that Logan was sexually molesting ghouls when no one was around? I see where you get the talking to his mother thing, but don't recall any indication of him having his way with the ghouls.

[Legion2213]

[QUOTE=horrormad93;149805] well I do I think It stupid how the hell are you suppose to survive with zombs running after you QUOTE]

Your not supposed to survive,thats the point!thats what made them in their own right scary because they were relentless violent bastards,like the infected in 28 days.The slow romero zombies are creepy but not really scary,just a shambling shooting gallery.


Amen.

I honestly believe that a country like the US with a highly armed population and police force could put down a shambler style zombie apocalypse without too much trouble if they put their minds to it, but "infected" or "Dawn 04" runners would over run any nation IMO

[SRP76]

Again, running zombies aren't zombies. They're just regular people with blood on them.

When you take away things that make a creature what it is, there is no longer a point to having that creature.

Kind of like if you made a movie about vampires that walk in the daylight and are immune to holy items. You don't really have vampires now, do you?

[horrormad]

That a good point you made there.

[Minerva_Zombi]

[QUOTE=Tricky;150990]


Amen.

I honestly believe that a country like the US with a highly armed population and police force could put down a shambler style zombie apocalypse without too much trouble if they put their minds to it, but "infected" or "Dawn 04" runners would over run any nation IMO

If something like that happened in the US, there would be widespread panic because we're a bunch of idiots over here. We'd kill ourselves and if our loved ones turned, how many of us can honestly say we could take out our child, wife, or parents? I don't think I could. Haven't you seen any Romero zombie film? The threat is not as much the zombies, but the problems that occur within the living. Fast zombies just dumb up the idea for stupid people.

[sandrock74]

Again, running zombies aren't zombies. They're just regular people with blood on them.

When you take away things that make a creature what it is, there is no longer a point to having that creature.

Kind of like if you made a movie about vampires that walk in the daylight and are immune to holy items. You don't really have vampires now, do you?

Bravo! Very well said. I think this thread has been pwned!

[Bub666]

Again, running zombies aren't zombies. They're just regular people with blood on them.

When you take away things that make a creature what it is, there is no longer a point to having that creature.

Kind of like if you made a movie about vampires that walk in the daylight and are immune to holy items. You don't really have vampires now, do you?


I agree.

[MoonSylver]

I
I will say again - if a movie based on runners tried to have a creepy survival oriented plot rather than one based heavily on action - that movie would likely be just as good as any movie with shamblers and could propel the genre to new heights.

That was one of the things that made 28 Days & Weeks pretty cool in their 1st 1/2's, the holed up survivors, the feeling of desperation. So yeah, a whole film of that COULD work.

Just for the record, I'm a shambler man myself, for all the reasons others have mentioned, plus one more that can't be summed up so succinctly. Runners just don't FEEL right to me. You see zombies shambling around, & it's just creepy, it's not right, it FEELS like they're dead. It gives them a slow implacable sense of inevitability. Just like death itself.

Runners...eh....could be just a bunch of rioters, or guys hopped up on PCP. No sense of dread, of tension.

I'll give you one MORE too. With shamblers, you can give them some "face time", give them distinct personalities, which reinforces the idea that they used to be US, our friends & family. With runners they whip by the camera so fast they have no sense of identity, they're just a faceless, violent, angry mob. All the pathos has been drained out of the scenario.

[Doc]

Dude, where did you get that Logan was sexually molesting ghouls when no one was around? I see where you get the talking to his mother thing, but don't recall any indication of him having his way with the ghouls.

Ok maybe that wasn't right way to say.:annoyed: Though you remember the tape recorder scene in Day? You briefly hear Logan say "Take that off! "And that off!" and you hear a zed in the background.....I don't kinda gave me the impression that he was striping it.:confused:

[Bub666]

You don't know what Logan is doing.He could be doing anything.For all we know he could be molesting a zombie.

[horrormad]

You don't know what Logan is doing.He could be doing anything.For all we know he could be molesting a zombie.

He did molest a zombie that why Bub tried to kill him.:D

[Trin]

Again, running zombies aren't zombies. They're just regular people with blood on them.

When you take away things that make a creature what it is, there is no longer a point to having that creature.

Kind of like if you made a movie about vampires that walk in the daylight and are immune to holy items. You don't really have vampires now, do you?Yep. Bravo!!


That was one of the things that made 28 Days & Weeks pretty cool in their 1st 1/2's, the holed up survivors, the feeling of desperation. So yeah, a whole film of that COULD work.
Both movies had great starts and lousy endings marred by a bias for action over suspense/horror. A well-done 28 Days/Weeks style movie that focused on the hole-up survival aspect could most certainly work. Wouldn't that be great?


Just for the record, I'm a shambler man myself, for all the reasons others have mentioned, plus one more that can't be summed up so succinctly. Runners just don't FEEL right to me. You see zombies shambling around, & it's just creepy, it's not right, it FEELS like they're dead. It gives them a slow implacable sense of inevitability. Just like death itself.I totally get what you're saying here. Agree 100%.

[Skippy911sc]

Modern Movie Makers have been changing the rules of horror monsters for a while now...

In Vanhelsing Dracula grabs the cross and it melts, in Interview with a vampire Louis tells the interviewer that he is fond of crucifixes, in Blade 3 Dracula walks in the day time. So to say that there are these rules that if broken no longer define the creature or character is incorrect. I prefer the Shamblers for the many reason people have pointed out in this thread but the introduction of the runners simply made a new and interesting way of looking at something.

[clanglee]

He did molest a zombie that why Bub tried to kill him.:D

What?!? When did Bub try to kill Logan? :confused:

[Bub666]

What?!? When did Bub try to kill Logan? :confused:

I think he means Rhodes.

[horrormad]

My mistake I mean rhodes.

[MikePizzoff]

His mistake; he meant Rhodes.

[clanglee]

My mistake, He meant Rhodes. :rolleyes::lol:

[Publius]

Let me restate my argument another way. In my mind a large part of the shambling and stiffness of zombies is based on the idea that the reanimated brain is not functioning up to par. The brain is operating at a reduced functional level. Muscle control is affected similarly to a stroke victim or some forms of retardation. Personality is affected. Decision making is reduced to the most rudimentary. So where runners get confusing is that they've retained the brain's ability to control the body to such a fine degree but have lost the reasoning and personality aspects. That kind of transformation makes more sense with a virus that could reasonably attack areas of the brain. Death and reanimation doesn't seem like it could be so calculated.

I agree 100%. In the immortal words of the sheriff from NOTLD '68: "Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up." QED.

[Trin]

I agree 100%. In the immortal words of the sheriff from NOTLD '68: "Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up." QED.Lol - That quote is a classic, and does sum it all nicely!!

[Wyldwraith]

Got me thinking,
Notice how many zombie movies seem to gift the undead with some sort of 6th sense that allows them to flock to buildings inhabited by the living?

When I try and find a rationale of how a running zombie could work (throwing out the initial in-reality obvious impossibilities that prevent them from being) I just can't get my head around a condition that wipes out personality, memory, all but the most rudimentary tool-use/problem solving capabilities, yet somehow fails to impair equilibrium, hand-eye coordination and/or the capacity of the brain to process telescopic visual impulses.

If you think about it a world-class brain surgeon with a hundred million dollar research grant, a staff of Nobel Laureates, a facility stocked with cutting edge equipment and several thousand people available for him to maim and kill in his trial-and-error efforts would probably be incredibly hard-pressed to design a surgical protocol to remove all the mental function a "classic" undead normally loses from a living human being while allowing them to retain full unimpaired motor activity, couple with the ability to process information from 3 of the five senses (sight, hearing, smell).

That hypothetical monster of a surgeon would also have the "advantage" of trying to get these results from a living body which is still working on a non-autonomous level to maintain itself.

I think when you put it in terms like I just described, or like some of the previous posters have its easier to see why runners seem so jarringly unrealistic and "wrong" to those of us who find shamblers more frightening.

By the way, I completely agree with the reasoning that it's the change in the movie watching populace which led to the running zombie becoming such a common zombie type in the last several years.

Sorry, just some random thoughts of mine.

[SRP76]

Got me thinking,
Notice how many zombie movies seem to gift the undead with some sort of 6th sense that allows them to flock to buildings inhabited by the living?



Romero didn't do anything stupid like that until Land, with Big Daddy's undead GPS. But modern films have all kinds of idiocy.

I don't think it's needed; Romero had the right idea originally. Zombies crowd around where they see a person go. That's their food; they will chase it. Why have a "radar"? They can see any human activity.

That's part of the horror of zombies: there are as many of them everywhere as there are people now. Test it out. Try to go outside anywhere around where you live, and not have another person see you. Unless you're Batman, it's not going to happen. There are just too many eyes out there. Same deal with zombies. With thousands of sets of eyeballs rolling around, one of them is bound to see you if you try to move.

[Cartma7546]

Romero didn't do anything stupid like that until Land, with Big Daddy's undead GPS. But modern films have all kinds of idiocy.

I don't think it's needed; Romero had the right idea originally. Zombies crowd around where they see a person go. That's their food; they will chase it. Why have a "radar"? They can see any human activity.

That's part of the horror of zombies: there are as many of them everywhere as there are people now. Test it out. Try to go outside anywhere around where you live, and not have another person see you. Unless you're Batman, it's not going to happen. There are just too many eyes out there. Same deal with zombies. With thousands of sets of eyeballs rolling around, one of them is bound to see you if you try to move.

Well put good sir

[Trin]

@wyldwraith - Good points all around. I wonder, though, if the same arguments would apply to creatures like the Infected in 28 Days/Weeks. The idea of a decomposing or surgically altered brain resulting in loss of personality but keeping motor skills is just as you say - hard to imagine. But what about some kind of chemical hyper-stimulation of areas of the brain that control aggression? Enough aggression and personality becomes all but obliterated. In my mind that seems more plausible. There are diseases or drugs that have those kinds of side-effects. Just look at someone who goes off the deep end with PCP.

As for the zombie 6th sense. Animals relying on instinct to track prey have those abilities. It's not far fetched to believe that a human relying on baser instincts would develop those same abilities.

Richard Feynman (scientiest - helped create the atomic bomb) is well documented as having developed his sense of smell to the point that he could perform a "magic" trick. He would leave a room and have someone pick up and handle an object within the room such as a single book on a shelf of books. He would then come back into the room and "sniff out" the object they handled. Everyone would assume that his pretense of using smell to find the object was just for theatrics when in fact that was actually how he would find it.

I think that Night gave the zombies some extra-sensory perceptions. The secluded farmhouse could not have attracted the throngs of zombies that it did without something beyond mere sight and sound leading them. Just look at Johnny. He showed up near the end of the movie as a zombie. How did he find the farmhouse? He had no idea where Barbra went. He didn't know the area.

I don't think that Big Daddy had or needed a GPS system to find the humans. Fiddler's Green was a huge lit skyscraper acting as a beacon for the zombies. The real question is why they never saw it and went after it before?

[AnxietyDilemma]

I think that Night gave the zombies some extra-sensory perceptions. The secluded farmhouse could not have attracted the throngs of zombies that it did without something beyond mere sight and sound leading them. Just look at Johnny. He showed up near the end of the movie as a zombie. How did he find the farmhouse? He had no idea where Barbra went. He didn't know the area.


That's somewhat true, but there is a bit during the news report where it is said that a group of zombies surrounded an abandoned shed.

[DjfunkmasterG]

This is a fictional Horror monster, using fictional story points. The simple fact the dead are coming back to life and eating people is out there. If you can deal with that concept, nothing else should ever be questioned.

[bassman]

This is a fictional Horror monster, using fictional story points. The simple fact the dead are coming back to life and eating people is out there. If you can deal with that concept, nothing else should ever be questioned.

It's kind of funny how some of the debates we get into around here are so far out there yet everyone feels so strongly about it. Gotta love HPotD.:cool:

I personally feel the runners take away a lot of the suspense. I know that seems backwards, but the shamblers creeping towards a cornered person with the tension and right music - awesome. The runners have their place in the genre and I can dig on some of them. Mainly the 28 days runners, even though they're technically not "zombies". The shamblers work best for the right mood and mindset, imo.

I wonder if anyone prefers the super zombies from the day remake.:shifty:

[Yojimbo]

I wonder if anyone prefers the super zombies from the day remake.:shifty:

Watch your tounge boy, if you like this job!:lol:



I think that Night gave the zombies some extra-sensory perceptions. The secluded farmhouse could not have attracted the throngs of zombies that it did without something beyond mere sight and sound leading them. Just look at Johnny. He showed up near the end of the movie as a zombie. How did he find the farmhouse? He had no idea where Barbra went. He didn't know the area.


I think that Savini's night remake touched on this a little better, but it is possible that Ben made so much racket while boarding up the house that the sound traveled through the quiet evening air attracting the ghouls. And, maybe some ghouls, like they did in DOTD, simply see a few other ghouls shambling in a particular direction as if they have a purpose and then begin following them...the crowd gets larger and more noticible...attracting other ghouls and pretty soon is is a sizable group. Besides, there were not that many ghouls in the original NOLD, so it could have been folks from town and from other farmhouses and beekmans diner. Remember too that Ben came from beekmans where he made a commotion, so the ghouls maybe single mindedly started after him, down a straight road where they say him drive off, and shambled along attracting others until they happened upon the farmhouse, much like Ben did. So I don't know it they needed some sort of super zombie sense to tingle to arrive for the feast.

[Bub666]

I wonder if anyone prefers the super zombies from the day remake.:shifty:


:hurl:

[SRP76]

I think that Night gave the zombies some extra-sensory perceptions. The secluded farmhouse could not have attracted the throngs of zombies that it did without something beyond mere sight and sound leading them. Just look at Johnny. He showed up near the end of the movie as a zombie. How did he find the farmhouse? He had no idea where Barbra went. He didn't know the area.



The farmhouse was like 100 yards away from the graveyard. It would be the first thing Johnny and his gang would encounter while shambling down the street. It's not like finding it would be difficult.

[AnxietyDilemma]

This is a fictional Horror monster, using fictional story points. The simple fact the dead are coming back to life and eating people is out there. If you can deal with that concept, nothing else should ever be questioned.

Well let's just give them the ability to levitate then.

[Bub666]

Well let's just give them the ability to levitate then.

Why stop there,how about zombies that can fly?

[SRP76]

I thought they did, in the Day remake...?

[Bub666]

I thought they did, in the Day remake...?


Yeah,but it was only one zombie.

[Danny]

Why stop there,how about zombies that can fly?

see, i enjoyed marvel zombies just for that, the zombies were these superpowered undead and imagine being a normal person in that situation, with a zombified version of storm trashing your town.

that'd shat yer right up.

[Legion2213]

This is a fictional Horror monster, using fictional story points. The simple fact the dead are coming back to life and eating people is out there. If you can deal with that concept, nothing else should ever be questioned.

Spot on sir! Running zombies, shambling zombies, radar zombies and even smart zombies are all legitimate zombies...none are the "right kind" of zombie...we just have our own personal taste of what a fictional zombie should be like.


Well let's just give them the ability to levitate then.

Because levitation is not a human capability to start with. Running & shuffling is a human capability.

[AnxietyDilemma]

Spot on sir! Running zombies, shambling zombies, radar zombies and even smart zombies are all legitimate zombies...none are the "right kind" of zombie...we just have our own personal taste of what a fictional zombie should be like.



Because levitation is not a human capability to start with. Running & shuffling is a human capability.

Roaring like a velociraptor with demon eyes isn't either.

I know, we all have our different preferances, I respect that. I just can't buy that something that was once brain dead now has better functionality than I do and I'm only 26 years old. I can run pretty darn fast, but I honestly don't think I'd be much of a match for some of those sprinters in some of those movies.

[clanglee]

Well, the dead don't get tired and don't need energy. If a zombie has (at least at first) the same basic biology as a human, why couldn't he run? The brain is actually still alive in some form for a while, and the Zeds in Dawn '04 popped right up after death. That gives very little time for the brain to shut down its synapsis(sp?) If the "virus" can keep the motor functions of the brain working, then until decomposition starts, the body could still do whatever it used to.

That being said, while I don't mind running zombies at all, I prefer the shambler. :D

[Ov3rlord]

Ya Clang's got it right in my opinion, if the zombies went through a normal cycle of death then the after 12 hours they would normally begin to have their muscles stiffen up under rigor mortis, this usually lasts for about 36 hours until the muscles relax. So basically it's:
0 hour to 12 hour: Runner (if person was killed recently)
12 hour to 36 hour: Shambler (Rigor Mortis stage)
36 hour to beyond: Runner (Until decomposition sets in)
At least that's my view on how they would be but another factor that some people over look is that accidents happen to normal people all the time it doesn't take much to trip and break an arm or an ankle, so with zombies carelessly running around and not having the ability to heal then at least a few would be unable to run or even walk.

[Trin]

This is a fun discussion. My take is we're all dancing around the same basic points.

On the one hand they are fictional so anything the author/writer desires is fair game. Running, jumping, virus, comet, gps radar, intelligent, etc.

On the other hand horror works better when it's grounded in something believable. As a viewer if you want me to come along for the ride you have to sell me something I can make sense of. The more I furrow my brow at your creation the less I'm going to be scared by it.

After much internal debate I've decided (at least for myself) that a running zombie doesn't cross the line of what a zombie is. They are still an animated dead body. Maybe not operating by the aged old rules, but still within the gross definition.

[clanglee]

gross definition.

:lol::lol::lol:

a double entendre!!

[SRP76]

If zombies can run and do everything else a living person can do, that means Universal Soldier was a zombie film.

Good thing Fran and the boys didn't run into Van Damme in that mall.

[Ov3rlord]

Shh.... don't say that. Next thing you know we'll have zombies with years of extensive military training and top of the line weaponry running around.

[Legion2213]

Shh.... don't say that. Next thing you know we'll have zombies with years of extensive military training and top of the line weaponry running around.

Land - Sea - Air - :sneaky:
http://uashome.alaska.edu/~Jndfg20/website/land.gif

[SymphonicX]

:d:D:lol:

too ****ing funny.

[Ov3rlord]

:eek: :stunned: I don't know about you guys but I'll be on the moon if anyone needs me

[DubiousComforts]

:eek: :stunned: I don't know about you guys but I'll be on the moon if anyone needs me
Wouldn't the moon be more susceptible to the Venus Probe radiation than Earth? The last thing you would want is zombies that can defy gravity.

[RustyHicks]

You just wait, the way some of these new modern zombies
are coming about, there will be a "Zombies from outer space"
movie and then no one will be safe

[Wyldwraith]

Flag on the play,
About the zombies "popping right up", so the normal cycle of death doesn't apply so much. From the moment respiration and the heart stops oxygen stops getting to the brain. Ever seen the damage that can be done by a trauma victim being oxygen-deprived, even if for a very few minutes? Except in cases where extreme hypothermia is involved massive brain damage invariably results.

Yes, the reanimation mechanism somehow makes the zombie brain independent of the need for oxygen, but only those parts of the brain that the virus is actively maintaining would be protected from the ravages of oxygen deprivation. That brings us back to the selectivity required to have mindless predatory automatons have full command of their bodies making disbelief-suspension incredibly hard. The zombie might have sprung to their feet within seconds of death, but brain damage WOULD still be a part of the death-process.

Another thing, equilibrium is inarguably based on a fluid-centric sort of gyroscope in the inner ear. I can buy that the zombie virus/method of reanimation could somehow jury-rig a "bypass" for this system, but one that functions as well as a living human being's involuntary biological systems?
Without good balance running, jumping and timed pounces are impossible.

Put another way. Tell me there's ANYONE in the whole wide world that didn't go "What the HELL?" during the scene when the legless zombie in Dawn '04 smoothly hand-over-hands his way along the pipes in the parking garage, takes aim, and drops down perfectly on its hapless human victim's back?

That was an ambush maneuver that a living human being would have been extremely hard-pressed to get right in one attempt. My suspension of disbelief gives me problems when Chuck Norris and Steven Segall pull those sort of stunts, and I know both of them have had benefit of extensive cultivation of their natural coordination and other supplementary skills. Even taking away the elements of pain and fatigue it would still take the capacity to realize that a silent attack from above has benefits that scrambling across the ground in the shortest path possible to the human flesh does not.

The problem with runners isn't just with their running. It's really that the director/script-writers never stop at simple straight line running. They always have them leaping, timing their physical attacks for optimal effect, and other varied feats of dexterity. Their capabilities don't generally stop there either, as often the runners display a predatory cunning that outright declares their ability to premeditate and use their environment to best advantage.

I agree with all the prior arguments made about what runners take away from the genre, as well as agreeing that if a plotline was crafted that amended the flaws in the running zombies we've seen so far then it could make for an entertaining film. But as they are runners offer little but grim, hopeless, extremely fast-paced and haphazard action. Survival horror at its best is much more than that.

[Bub666]

Tell me there's ANYONE in the whole wide world that didn't go "What the HELL?" during the scene when the legless zombie in Dawn '04 smoothly hand-over-hands his way along the pipes in the parking garage, takes aim, and drops down perfectly on its hapless human victim's back?



I agree.That scene was B.S.

[Neil]

I agree.That scene was B.S.
****e writing/script...

[Trin]

Put another way. Tell me there's ANYONE in the whole wide world that didn't go "What the HELL?" during the scene when the legless zombie in Dawn '04 smoothly hand-over-hands his way along the pipes in the parking garage, takes aim, and drops down perfectly on its hapless human victim's back?You are right of course. I'd go a step further and say it's hard to believe that the legless zombie didn't exceed his former human limitations. That was quite a physical feat he performed.

What was he doing hanging in the rafters of the parking garage in the first place? As you say, the zombie was able to premeditate his attack which begs the question what brain process was left intact that the guy knew to lie in ambush? If his brethren topside had that kind of skill they'd have gotten into the mall half a dozen different ways.

Any half decent writer could give us a running zombie movie that doesn't boil down to a one dimensional action flick.

[DjfunkmasterG]

How many of you hate running zombies? well I do I think It stupid how the hell are you suppose to survive with zombs running after you the best zombies are the old original walking ones much cooler and scarier.

You just answered your own question.

You're not supposed to survive. What fun is a zombie outbreak if you have the upper hand. Even the playing field and lets see who comes out on top.

[jim102016]

**** that remake, and **** "super zombies"!

[JasonEdw]

I can get used to running zombies, i hate to say it. But, zombies that crawl 100 mph on walls (like on the Day of the Dead remake), that was just more stupid than terrifying!

[Ivarr]

As I have said before ... slow or fast is an artistic decision ... and neither is wrong or right.

They both have their points....

Fast ... you have NO room to f' up ... they are on you in a heart beat....

Slow ... no matter how far you run or how long it takes ... they will always follow you ... you need sleep ... they do not ... and they will follow you till you die.

I prefer slow only because it adds an element of hopelessness.... and of inevitability ... it allows for a slower build up of terror ... that's more sustained.

As for picking on scenes ... the arm over arm legless zombie is no more or less a tool for a fright that does not make 100% sense than then the workman zombie that stays perfectly still only to spring on Roger at just the right time in the original Dawn.

I prefer to just judge a movie on if it was entertaining or not to me ... not how it fairs compared to another....

But to each their own.

[Wyldwraith]

Ok,
If we're gonna go for running zombies then these dead people sprinting around, doing olympic-class long jumps, and negotiating obstacles anyone who's been through basic training would recognize then I'd like to see the muscles break down.

Maybe the middle-ground people have the right of it. Let the very fresh zombies run and pounce on people, but emphasize their bodies are dead by having the majority slow down as time goes by. Then when someone new died it would be jarring all over again to have a much more dangerous zombie in action again.

With a good script and decent actors the different pacing allowed by using fresh runner-pouncers that become relentless shamblers could open up some possibilities that have never been skillfully employed/explored.

One plot device that I'll never be able to enjoy though are zombies demonstrating problem-solving, deductive reasoning and coordinated activities (not to be confused with the classic zombie mob who *incidentally* aid each other). Down that path lay more legless monkey-bar climbing zombies, and ::shudders and then vomits:: more Big Daddies. No thanks, we have movies about intelligent undead led by an "alpha undead" that operate as a collective.

They're called vampire movies.

[mista_mo]

I really don't think a human or group of humans could rip the head off of someone, or tear a man in half with their bear hands.

such as the zombies do in the original Day of the dead.
I guess people forget those things when comparing movies sometimes?