Rejected - the house votes down bailout...

[Mike70]

the house of representatives has voted against (228-205) the $700 billion bailout. time to start from scratch. the dow jones was down over 700 points this afternoon in the wake of this vote.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7641733.stm

[Mutineer]

I hate this country sometimes. The leaders, the government. Makes me insane.

Iraq apending - $12 billion a month in 2008.

800 overseas bases cost's us billions upon billions each year ....

Instead of paying Iaqi people to rebuild Iraq, we pay unreal amounts to corrupt U.S. Coporations like Halliburton (KBR). Who do they think built the buildings and roads over there in the first place ? And now the Unemployment Rate in Iraq is 60% ... Put those people to work. We've spent 85 Billion dollars just to American Corporations since the war started.

Paying the Iraqi people the same wages (which we not of course) would save 14 Billoin on the current exchange rate; again, we wouldn't be paying the salary's we're paying now to the US Workers over there.


Bring the troops home and get the hell out of other nations problems. We do not live in a Cold War environment nor do we need 800 bases around the world. This is costings us hundreds of billions a year for the War and the the bases.

Abolish the Federal Income Tax (Tax the Corporations).

Become energy dependent NOW. We put a man on the moon during the space race. We made a nuclear bomb in WW2.

We can't ****ing make a affordable automobile anytime soon that runs on anythign BUT OIL ?

The middle east would dry up if not for our love of oil.

I'm rambling

Sorry

[zombie04]

I'm rambling

Sorry

Indeed you were, with not one mention of the House vote.

[acealive1]

some lady had the bright idea of giving every 18 and up tax payer $250,000 and seeing how that does with the economy...... GREAT IDEA! :hyper::hyper:

[darth los]

I hate this country sometimes. The leaders, the government. Makes me insane.

Iraq apending - $12 billion a month in 2008.

800 overseas bases cost's us billions upon billions each year ....

Instead of paying Iaqi people to rebuild Iraq, we pay unreal amounts to corrupt U.S. Coporations like Halliburton (KBR). Who do they think built the buildings and roads over there in the first place ? And now the Unemployment Rate in Iraq is 60% ... Put those people to work. We've spent 85 Billion dollars just to American Corporations since the war started.

Paying the Iraqi people the same wages (which we not of course) would save 14 Billoin on the current exchange rate; again, we wouldn't be paying the salary's we're paying now to the US Workers over there.


Bring the troops home and get the hell out of other nations problems. We do not live in a Cold War environment nor do we need 800 bases around the world. This is costings us hundreds of billions a year for the War and the the bases.

Abolish the Federal Income Tax (Tax the Corporations).

Become energy dependent NOW. We put a man on the moon during the space race. We made a nuclear bomb in WW2.

We can't ****ing make a affordable automobile anytime soon that runs on anythign BUT OIL ?

The middle east would dry up if not for our love of oil.

I'm rambling

Sorry


What!?! An actual coherent plan!?! Never happen.

This country can't get anything big done anymore. What was our last significant accomplishment that we put our minds a resources to and actually got it done? Put a man on the moon? What was that, 40 years ago? PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE. That's pittiful. My professor and i are discussing this situation and she say" we'll get out of it, Americans are hard working and determined." I retorted " Perhaps that's the generation you came from, Americans today are fat lazy and spoiled. We're quick to pass the buck and show almost no initiative.'

Wait a minute ya'll, i gotta go check my , my space page. :cool:

[slickwilly13]

They need to get rid of the Death Tax.

[darth los]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that the way things are now is what the founding fathers envisioned.

What!?! NO SLAVES!?! :stunned:


:cool:

[slickwilly13]

We're due for another depression it appears. Things do not look good. I am glad I am not running for president.

[darth los]

We're due for another depression it appears. Things do not look good. I am glad I am not running for president.

As we all are. :p j/k

:cool:

[3pidemiC]

...and we all fall down.

[Bub666]

some lady had the bright idea of giving every 18 and up tax payer $250,000 and seeing how that does with the economy...... GREAT IDEA! :hyper::hyper:

Yeah,I agree.I'll take my $250,000 now please.:D

[darth los]

The average person would blow though that in a week and not even know what the hell happened. Then they'd need to be "bailed out" all over again. People just aren't good with money like that. The more they have the more they spend. :cool:

[Publius]

The official title of the bailout bill:

"To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes"

Huh? Washington, DC really seems like another planet sometimes.

[slickwilly13]

As we all are. :p j/k

:cool:

I know this much. If I was the president. I would strengthen our military. I would stay out of other countries' business, which includes no aid. Since, it appears no one wants our help anyways. More money for our country. And we should look out for ourselves, before anyone else. And I would keep religion out of politics. None of this God's will or God is on my side nonsense. I would definately fund things such as stem cell research and anything else that would benefit health & science that religious groups are against. I wouldn't take away personal liberties as an excuse to save the country. And I would try my best to legalize marijuana.

[darth los]

I know this much. If I was the president. I would strengthen our military. I would stay out of other countries' business, which includes no aid. Since, it appears no one wants our help anyways. More money for our country. And we should look out for ourselves, before anyone else. And I would keep religion out of politics. None of this God's will or God is on my side nonsense. I would definately fund things such as stem cell research and anything else that would benefit health & science that religious groups are against. I wouldn't take away personal liberties as an excuse to save the country. And I would try my best to legalize marijuana.

Sh8t, I' gonna write you in my ballot right now !!:hyper:

Seriously, though. I'm not sure what the figures are but we already spend way more than almost everyone else combined. I definitely agree that we need to stop sending so much aid overseas when we're hurting right here at home. It's good to be altruistic but not at the cost of hurting yourself. The sad reality is that you can't help everybody. We're in sad shape and turmoil over here, i think it's time for us to be a little selfish doncha think? Where are all the countries rushing to help us with multi billion dollar aid packages? Exactly, just what i thought.

There's an old saying as well. Something's not right when God hates all the same people you do. :cool:

[Tricky]

empires rise & fall,that is what is happening now :shifty:

[Skippy911sc]

The dows 780 point drop is equivalent to losing 1.2 trillion dollars...how much was that bailout...or economic aid package again?

[darth los]

empires rise & fall,that is what is happening now :shifty:

The ones in power never think it can happen to them though, despite all the historic evidence to the contrary. On a side note, what do you think was the mightiest empire to fall since the beginning of recorded history? Certainly not this one.


The dows 780 point drop is equivalent to losing 1.2 trillion dollars...how much was that bailout...or economic aid package again?

Approx. 700 billion.

[Tricky]

On a side note, what do you think was the mightiest empire to fall since the beginning of recorded history? Certainly not this one.

.

Romes the obvious one,but the british empire,the third reich & the soviet union have all had their claws on half the world & lost it in recent history!

[darth los]

Romes the obvious one,but the british empire,the third reich & the soviet union have all had their claws on half the world & lost it in recent history!

Perhaps when an empire ties to expand too much it's only inevitable that it collapse to a more managable size. I mean they all didn't all but disapear as did other great civilizations, they just shrunk to basically what they were in the first place.

But yeah, no empire is at it's peak for long let alone forever.

:cool:

[Bub666]

On a side note, what do you think was the mightiest empire to fall since the beginning of recorded history?

It's got to be the Roman empire.

[Publius]

The ones in power never think it can happen to them though, despite all the historic evidence to the contrary. On a side note, what do you think was the mightiest empire to fall since the beginning of recorded history? Certainly not this one.


If not this one, I would have to say the British Empire.

[acealive1]

Perhaps when an empire ties to expand too much it's only inevitable that it collapse to a more managable size. I mean they all didn't all but disapear as did other great civilizations, they just shrunk to basically what they were in the first place.

But yeah, no empire is at it's peak for long let alone forever.

:cool:


agreed, we are the only empire that didnt do the whole "hey we're big lets take over the world" thing. i see stark contrasts with rome and the US but to comapre them to anything like nazi germany or any other comme bastahd is downright wrong. we are not those kind of people.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I find it Ironic that the house fails the bill, Wall Street drops 777 points. On tuesday, no bill, no talk about the bill, and the stock market goes up 485 points. Sounds to me like Wall Street doesn't need anything and are just ****ing with the markets in hopes of getting free money.

[SymphonicX]

agreed, we are the only empire that didnt do the whole "hey we're big lets take over the world" thing. i see stark contrasts with rome and the US but to comapre them to anything like nazi germany or any other comme bastahd is downright wrong. we are not those kind of people.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - but I'm betting Bush knew congress wouldn't approve this, in fact that was the plan. This is all part of a plot to ID chip the world under a one government, one bank solution. Mark my words, by 2050 there will be one bank, one government, and sickening poverty and unemployment.

That nutcase David Icke predicted all this in the 90s, and all of it has come true.

[AcesandEights]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist - but I'm betting Bush knew congress wouldn't approve this, in fact that was the plan. This is all part of a plot to ID chip the world under a one government, one bank solution. Mark my words, by 2050 there will be one bank, one government, and sickening poverty and unemployment.

That nutcase David Icke predicted all this in the 90s, and all of it has come true.

It's odd, but I've been thinking over the last few days how this latest turn of events would feed into such beliefs. I cant say it doesn't make sense, but that's what makes conspiracy theories so seductive, they simplify things for us.

Still, the idea that there are rich people looking to get richer at the expense of the rest of us and those looking to tighten control in their own hands is certainly true enough, so people can either choose to take an active role in shaping their own future and that of the country and world they live in or idly suffer the consequences...

[darth los]

I find it Ironic that the house fails the bill, Wall Street drops 777 points. On tuesday, no bill, no talk about the bill, and the stock market goes up 485 points. Sounds to me like Wall Street doesn't need anything and are just ****ing with the markets in hopes of getting free money.

I believe it's due to speculation. They assumed that a deal eventually HAS to get done and the market rose based on that. Funny cause that's how we got into trouble in the first place.

[Publius]

It's interesting that this is one of those issues where the ideological purists on both left and right seem to agree (no sweeping bailout for irresponsible Wall Street fat cats) and everybody in the center seems to agree (do SOMETHING and do it NOW to avoid some kind of financial catastrophe).

[SymphonicX]

I think the bail out is necessary. All the US gov cares about is saving Americans skin - they don't give a flying **** that they're failure to agree this bail out will cause many, many international banks to fail.

[Publius]

I think the bail out is necessary. All the US gov cares about is saving Americans skin - they don't give a flying **** that they're failure to agree this bail out will cause many, many international banks to fail.

The fact that so many economists oppose the proposal concerns me. It could cause a lot more economic harship in the future if the conclusion financial investments draw is "we should pursue as risky a strategy as possible, because if we're lucky we'll get big profits, and if we're unlucky the government will bail us out."

[darth los]

The thing is that the market might correct itself and then again it might not. But do we really want to wait and find out? Sometimes there just aren't any good options.

:cool:

[DubiousComforts]

I find it Ironic that the house fails the bill, Wall Street drops 777 points. On tuesday, no bill, no talk about the bill, and the stock market goes up 485 points. Sounds to me like Wall Street doesn't need anything and are just ****ing with the markets in hopes of getting free money.
As usual, it's a scam that the public will eventually buy into out of fear. In my area, gas has dropped to its lowest price in six months, which I predict will further plummet below $3.00/gallon as Election Day nears. You simply can't have citizens going to the polls angry because they might actually ignore the football game rhetoric and vote with their heads for a change. How can there be "financial crisis" without adversely affecting this most valuable of commodities that has had everyone bitching and moaning over the last year?

This past week, I was just approved for a new credit card, transfered a balance over at 0%, switched my auto insurance saving several hundred bucks, and my few meager stock investments are doing just fine. So if the banks collapse, does that mean I won't have to pay my debt? Sounds good to me. Sans federal bailout, the financial climate for working stiffs will be no worse than it already is with the filthy, greedy rich paying themselves several hundred times what the rest of us take home.

The wealthy elite have worked so hard at convincing John Q. Public that welfare to the poor amounts to "socialism" and any other dirty word that they can make stick. Demonstrate that you've actually learned something by refusing to provide a socialist bailout to your rich owners, too.

And if you absolutely must put your fear somewhere, then worry about multinational giant J.P Morgan Chase who saw to it to become even larger in their swift buyout of Wamu. We don't want big government, yet we tolerate humongous multinational corporations that utilize every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Isn't that how we got into this mess in the first place?

[Publius]

We don't want big government, yet we tolerate humongous multinational corporations that utilize every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Isn't that how we got into this mess in the first place?

I haven't heard any suggestion that tax evasion (legal or otherwise) played any role in the current crisis. If the companies involved had been paying more taxes, they would only be in worse financial shape now. The crisis was caused by irresponsible lending practices combined with new accounting rules imposed by the SEC in the past couple of years.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Pub said it, poor lending practices... which to me = bad business decisions, which tells me F U C K THEM and the BAIL OUT. If I buy the movie theater I have been after and it fails after being in business, is the government going to bail me out? NO, so they shouldn't be bailing anyone else out.

Sorry, but I don't buy the financial armageddon bologna. I have already written and called my senators and congressmen and women and said you vote for it, you will never see my vote or other votes because 60+% of americans do not want the bail out. They better start listening to us since they have been elected by us and are were elected to represent us.

[DubiousComforts]

I haven't heard any suggestion that tax evasion (legal or otherwise) played any role in the current crisis.
And nowhere in my post did I suggest that it did, legal or otherwise. But just try to claim with a straight face that these huge, multinational corporations calling the shots aren't employing financial magicians who make sure they pay the least amount of tax possible. Of course it's not "evasion" when you influence and help to write the tax laws.

Here's an idea: get the 400 richest billionaires (http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/16/forbes-400-billionaires-lists-400list08_cx_mn_0917richamericans_land.html) together and let them bailout America's "financial crisis." What's a paltry 700 billion to these guys compared to the public relations bonanza they would enjoy for decades? Bill Gates would never need spend another cent advertising Microsoft because Americans would be building altars to him in their homes.

[Publius]

And nowhere in my post did I suggest that it did, legal or otherwise. But just try to claim with a straight face that these huge, multinational corporations calling the shots aren't employing financial magicians who make sure they pay the least amount of tax possible. Of course it's not "evasion" when you influence and help to write the tax laws.

You said:


We don't want big government, yet we tolerate humongous multinational corporations that utilize every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share of tax. Isn't that how we got into this mess in the first place?

I naturally assumed that by "this mess" you meant the big mess being discussed in this thread. So what could the pronoun "that" (in the second sentence) refer to other than "humongous multinational corporations that utilize every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share of tax"? And if tolerating "humongous multinational corporations that utilize every trick in the book to avoid paying their fair share of tax" is "how we got into this mess," that sure seems to me like a suggestion that corporations avoiding tax obligations played a role in the current financial crisis. Sorry if I somehow misunderstood what you wrote.