Roger being bitten, who is to blame?

[Thorn]

In watching the original Dawn of the Dead the other night I was struck by something that had never really occurred to me before. It was during the scene in which Peter and Roger were trying to get the trucks and use them to block the doors. Flyboy of course was overhead, to I imagine serve as aerial reconnaissance.

We have talked on the old forums at length about how Roger leaving the door open was likely a result of stress or him kind of loosing it. You know leaving a door wide open with zombies walking around and your legs hanging out like deep friend chicken waiting to be eaten is a really bad idea, I am sure we can all agree upon that. This time though I was looking at it from a different view and taking other factors into account. While ultimately I place the blame for the zombie attack firmly on Roger as it was his mistake. I feel others share in that blame as well. Let me explain and get your opinion...

The mission at hand is easy enough to understand, get large easy to move objects and use those objects to help in barricading the doors to the mall. The trucks are excellent choices for this as they move easily under their own power and do not require preparation or construction. So far so good. The execution of that plan however was terrible.

You have a three man party working together to facilitate this action. One over head who is aerial surveillance and reconnaissance. If he is not doing that he may as well be parked on the roof saving gas, and not drawing attention to the mall and those who live there. No one needs more zombies there, nor do you want people like looters. The chopper as was said and shown is a good way to attract attention. So that having been said, where was the plan for communication between the chopper and the assets on the ground? The radios they had may have had limited range, but I am sure they would have worked well enough to allow communication over a short distance even if you could not hear well over the rotors or motors you could key the mike and draw attention. More over I think Stephen had sufficient time to take more action than he did to alert the two people on the ground to the danger that was around them.

Peter was another ground asset. He said he was going to ride shotgun, or pick up. I forget which right now. Bottom line is he was part of a two man team, and his job is to watch the other guys back. Why did he drive off and park well away from where Roger was so that he had no visual on what he was doing? Did he momentarily forget that the dead were walking the earth and that everyone was in a constant state of jeopardy? I personally would have been parked right there near him watching him and covering his back. I would then certainly have told him to do his work with the doors shut if he was so stressed out or "out of control" he did not think to do it himself.

Part of your job in a situation like that is reading signs of the people around you and picking up on tells. Roger was certainly juiced up on adrenaline and very much getting reckless. He however in those situations should be able to count on his buddy to help him. It is not very often we all loose it at the same time. Having various personalities and thresholds for stress.

At any rate as I watched this again I could not help feel that the plan while on the surface was sound, was very poorly executed and that both Flyboy and Peter really let Roger down.

What do you think?

[dracenstein]

I think Flyboy should have had a radio. Peter the other. The trucks had their own CB radios.

Actually, the helicopter should have a radio anyway.

They should, at least, put their radios on the same frequency.

[AcesandEights]

Roger was an idiot and while I don't want to say he deserved what happened, I can sure as hell say he was at fault and bears the full brunt of responsibility for his actions (and those actions include choosing to put himself in harm's way, taking matters ridiculously lightly, clucking like an idiot and how he went about his hand to hand fighting).

I know Roger is like a fan-fav, but he was a big time liability with regards to how he handled himself.

[SymphonicX]

The fact that Roger left the door open only really facilitated his descent into madness...Stephen's heli position was in no way useful to either of the group, neither was Peter's position - but this attack never killed Roger....

Roger's fatal mistake occurs later on, it was a combination of the door to the truck being jammed and him forgetting his tools, Peter and Fran were all over the zeds as much as possible but Roger dropped his bag and had to climb down to get back up...the easiest mistake to rectify in this situation wasn't the position of Stephen, Fran or Peter, but that Roger should really have lobbed his bag through Peters window THEN climbed into the cab with Peter ready to drive off....this would have saved Rogers life...The earlier attack just served to send Roger a bit loopy, but he was whooping and going a bit mad well before then...

[Thorn]

Symph I agree in many ways, I do view that attack as the beginning of the end for him. Though he was going a bit crazy before that and showing some signs of it. I think the open door attack where he nearly was killed by zombies and had blood splattered all over his face was the catalyst for his death.

The message I got out of it was that it pushed him over the edge and lead to him forgetting his tools in his delirium after the attack. I honestly feel had that not happened (and if it were not in the script of course ;) ) he would not have left his tools and been so reckless.

I also never thought of them trying to get on the same frequencies that is an excellent point. Something more should and could have been done, the entire plan was sort of not very well thought out and certainly not well executed as we see from the results.

[SRP76]

Roger brought death on himself.

Which always seemed strange to me; up until the "get its head up, man!" episode, Roger was utterly calm and efficient, almost Nazi-like. Then, all of a sudden, he's gone nuts.

No buildup, no gradual decent into madness, just *CRASH*, he's a lunatic now.

One of the few things I don't like about the movie.

[Bub666]

It's all Roger fault he got bitten,he had completely lost it by that point.

[Mike70]

it is roger's fault he was bitten but i think that peter should've recognized that roger's transmission was starting to slip a bit. peter probably should've called a halt to activities that day and let roger get himself back together before attempting to either retrieve roger's bag or block anymore of the doors.

[capncnut]

It's a blameless situation, I mean with the dead rising all around him is it any wonder why he went mad?

And besides, all he did was drop his toolbelt. Who hasn't dropped something before by mistake?

[bassman]

It's a blameless situation, I mean with the dead rising all around him is it any wonder why he went mad?

And besides, all he did was drop his toolbelt. Who hasn't dropped something before by mistake?

I agree, but the dropping of the toolbelt could have been avoided if he had calmed down and stopped being so cocky about it all...

[Thorn]

...but the dropping of the toolbelt could have been avoided if he had calmed down and stopped being so cocky about it all...

Agreed and further to the point if he had taken it with him the first time and not left it behind, he would not have been so pressed for time.

When he initially transferred to the pick up/drop off vehicle it went much smoother. You can make the assumption that the zombies were much more spread out and less congregated. After driving up smashing a few, and exiting the zombies knew that meals on wheels was in the area and they were ready for blood.

And as was pointed out he left it behind because he was reckless, out of controlling, stressing out, and basically in a state of shock.

[sandrock74]

I never did understand why Peter didn't have a second tool bag with him in his truck? No one ever heard of a back up?? They had the (virtually) limitless supply of tools that the mall supplied, why not make two identical bags? If one were lost, then you automatically had the second bag as your back up and the plan continued without missing a beat.

I never understood how the helicopter didn't have a radio? I always thought that all helicopters had radios in them. How else does the pilot stay in touch with HQ or whomever? Had I been Steven, I would have been listening to chatter on the radio the whole flight from Philly to Monroeville. Just a way to keep tabs on everything. At the very least, I would have thrown a walkie talkie into the copter and made sure each driver had one. Again, just common sense.

As for Peter pulling out of visual sight of Roger: yes, that was a bad mistake on his part. The only thing that comes to mind (besides thats the way the script was) was that Peter was parked to view the gates for the place. That way he could see incoming zombies, perhaps following them from the mall? Kinda lame I know, but that's all I could ever fathom.

I do give Fran credit thou. For an untrained civilian, she was shooting anything she could get half a beed on while the trucks were below! I think the only thing she could have done to help along was to maybe start gunning zombies down at the next door as the others were getting the next truck. You know, sort of thin out the herd a bit? Between the trucks coming and going, the helicoper flying overhead and Fran shooting at them, the zombies wouldn't know what was going on!

Of course, it is easy to play armchair military strategist...

[MinionZombie]

Every single time I watch the movie, I secretly hope he doesn't drop his tool belt and just chills out a smidge ... also I think, why not try to draw some of the zeds around the other truck (with the dropped tool bag in it) away from Roger so he can make a cleaner escape ... and indeed why not open up the door on Peter's truck, then open the door on Roger's truck - shoot some approaching zeds from the side that isn't blocked - make the hop over, kicking the Roger truck door shut, and then going on your way.

But it had to happen, because the film wouldn't have moved on ... but if it was real, then my above would come into my head.

[wayzim]

Roger brought death on himself.

Which always seemed strange to me; up until the "get its head up, man!" episode, Roger was utterly calm and efficient, almost Nazi-like. Then, all of a sudden, he's gone nuts.

No buildup, no gradual decent into madness, just *CRASH*, he's a lunatic now.

One of the few things I don't like about the movie.

Truth be told, and watch the scene again, but Roger was hardly entirely sane ever since the slaughter at the tenement apartments, but absolutely after he's splattered with the dead girl in the truck that tipped the scales. All the scenes leading up to that he was more manic than in control. His calm later on was simply the quiet before the storm.

But check out the film and see what you think.

Wayne Z
"This ain't no horror show or creature double feature, babe. "
(DeadFall; Foreshadow. )

[lullubelle]

He is my favorite character of Dawn, but it was his own fault, he was starting to loose it since the raid in the building (scene when Woolly goes berserk and Peter shoots him) it was a matter of time before he got careless, wonder how the story would have went if he had not gotten bitten.

[Legion2213]

He is my favorite character of Dawn, but it was his own fault, he was starting to loose it since the raid in the building (scene when Woolly goes berserk and Peter shoots him) it was a matter of time before he got careless, wonder how the story would have went if he had not gotten bitten.

Roger is my favorite Dawn character as well, I think that biker gang would've paid a terrible price for raiding the mall if he hadn't got himself bitten.

As for the original question, I agree with those who say that Roger was "broken" from the begining of the movie...just look at the opening scene where he is predicting what the police chief will say to the tenants...he has been doing this for a while and already fraying at the edges.


Every single time I watch the movie, I secretly hope he doesn't drop his tool belt and just chills out a smidge.

I am happy that I am not the only person who does this!!!

[SRP76]

...just look at the opening scene where he is predicting what the police chief will say to the tenants...he has been doing this for a while and already fraying at the edges.





How do you figure that? All that means is he's heard the same speil from the bossman a hundred times. We've all done the same thing Roger did there at some point, and we're not all crazy.

[Legion2213]

I think he's tired of it all SRP, I think he's had enough.

Obviously, the first time I watched the movie, I didn't think this, and just thought he was the coolest person on earth, but the more I watch it, the more I feel that it is fitting that Roger will be the first of the group to go.

That's just my opinion, yours may differ.

[sandrock74]

How do you figure that? All that means is he's heard the same speil from the bossman a hundred times. We've all done the same thing Roger did there at some point, and we're not all crazy.

Who says we're not?? LOL
We are discussing the mental stability of a movie character that was filmed 31 years ago!
We may all be crazy but we are adorable.

[Trin]

A big part of Roger's character was his confidence, which led to his over-confidence. He approached the entire movie with an "I can handle it" stance. That came off really well early on. This guy was someone you wanted around.

Where he started to show his flaws was when the department store zombie jumped him. Instead of letting Peter help him he wrestled and struggled with the zombie himself. He was nearly bitten then but immediately afterward acted as if he had the entire situation under control. It was obvious he didn't.

The truck plan they put together was based on the over-confident belief they could handle the zombies. That's why they only had one bag and also why Roger was dangling himself out there.

Any idiot could've managed that plan better, but most idiots wouldn't have been nearly so confident going in. The simplest plan to retrieve the bag would've been to drive a couple of hundred yards away from the truck with the bag, get out, and lure the zombies away. They could then have one of them run to retrieve the bag when the area was more clear. Why they drove up to the truck and tried that silly bit where Roger climbed from window to window is beyond me.

[lullubelle]

Roger is my favorite Dawn character as well, I think that biker gang would've paid a terrible price for raiding the mall if he hadn't got himself bitten.

As for the original question, I agree with those who say that Roger was "broken" from the begining of the movie...just look at the opening scene where he is predicting what the police chief will say to the tenants...he has been doing this for a while and already fraying at the edges.



I am happy that I am not the only person who does this!!!

Right on Legion, would have made for diffrent scenario if he would of made it:D

[Trin]

I think it's fair to say that the biker gang would've paid a high price if Roger had been with them, but what of the 4? Would Roger's over-confidence with the zombies have translated to suicide for them all against the bikers?

I loved Roger and hated to see him get bit, so my fan response is that Roger would've kicked some major biker @ss. But part of me recognizes that where Stephen got himself killed Roger might've gotten them all killed.

[Andy]

I never understood how the helicopter didn't have a radio? I always thought that all helicopters had radios in them. How else does the pilot stay in touch with HQ or whomever? Had I been Steven, I would have been listening to chatter on the radio the whole flight from Philly to Monroeville. Just a way to keep tabs on everything.


A Few people have mentioned the radio's here, just my take but of course the helicopter would of had a radio, but if anyone here has used one, they will know there's literally thousands of frequencies it can be set to, and the whole radio thing isnt planned, if you remember, roger turns on the radio in the truck cab and suprises peter with it, they didnt think the radios were there or working or whatever until they got into the trucks, and by then, there is no way to get a message back to flyboy to let him know what frequency.

[acealive1]

they had access to wood and tools, why not set up a perimeter fence around the mall and the truck depot? cuz i dont think zombies can scale fences in that movie

[lullubelle]

they had access to wood and tools, why not set up a perimeter fence around the mall and the truck depot? cuz i dont think zombies can scale fences in that movie

Ok, but dont you think that would have taken them longer to do :sneaky:and have them exposed to the zombies more?


they had access to wood and tools, why not set up a perimeter fence around the mall and the truck depot? cuz i dont think zombies can scale fences in that movie


I think it's fair to say that the biker gang would've paid a high price if Roger had been with them, but what of the 4? Would Roger's over-confidence with the zombies have translated to suicide for them all against the bikers?

I loved Roger and hated to see him get bit, so my fan response is that Roger would've kicked some major biker @ss. But part of me recognizes that where Stephen got himself killed Roger might've gotten them all killed.

You got a point there, did not think of that one...

[acealive1]

did you forget that they built a whole fake wall complete with paint and made a house upstairs in the storage space? 6 foot high fencing will take 90% less time

[Thorn]

Every single time I watch the movie, I secretly hope he doesn't drop his tool belt and just chills out a smidge ...

I do that with so many movies, you hope against hope something bad won't happen that clearly is going to happen... movies never change in the middle. I kind of laugh at myself after the fact, but it just shows you how emotionally involved we become with these characters I guess.

I am not sure about the fence idea, I mean the truck plan was something you could do on the "fly" that did not take too much time to set up. Constructing a whole fence is going to take time and you are out in the open exposed.The mall was clear of zeds when they built the "cardboard wall" to hide the stairs. If anything though I would have made the mall much more "looter proof" removed wires so they couldn't be hot wired. Shot the engine full of holes from above... shot the tires. Something.

I love what everyone is saying about how better to go back and get the tools I never thought about that but the truck to truck transfer idea just wreaks of epic fail. So again kudos to all of you.

I imagine Peter could have been watching down the road for more zombies who might approach, and that is a possibility but let fly boy do that! Someone has to make sure Roger doesn't get chomped on! I secure my immediate surroundings first and then look outward.

[Eyebiter]

A better choice for Flyboy and Peter would have been to take a break before going after the final truck. Head back to the mall to rest and regroup. It was too dangerous with Roger all out of control to go after the last one. Of course as they say hind sight is 20/20.

[SRP76]

did you forget that they built a whole fake wall complete with paint and made a house upstairs in the storage space? 6 foot high fencing will take 90% less time

It would also take 9,000x more material. Which they likely do not have. It's a mall, not a lumberyard.

And it's easy to build a 5x7 piece of wall when the zombies are all locked outside. To build a fence, they'd have to be right out in the middle of them. We saw how that turned out when they went for the trucks.

[bassman]

I think some of you fellas are forgetting that the wall in the hallway was built in case someone living found their way into the mall. I think Peter's line was something like "One day someone will come snooping around. We don't want them to even know that this hall exists". That's not a 100% accurate quote, but you get what I mean.

The trucks were for zombies alone. So they weren't meant to be deceiving....just keep the dead from getting leverage on the windows/doors. I always got the impression that they KNEW humans would one day make their way into the mall. So the hallway was deceiving, but the outside doors were only for keeping the dead at bay.

And as stated before, it would have been damn near impossible to construct a fence for the outer doors....

[Bub666]

it would have been damn near impossible to construct a fence for the outer doors....

Theres no way they could've built a fence outside of the mall.It would've taken way to long,and they would've had to deal with all those zombies outside.

[sandrock74]

Building a fence outside would have been the absolute WORST strategy they could have come up with! How do you fight off hundreds, if not thousands, of zombies while simultaneously constructing a fence with just four people is pure assholio! You don't have to be a military strategist to recognize that.

[sammylou]

There might be something I'm forgetting because my mind is blurred due to sleepiness, but I'm not sure Roger even needed the stupid bag. I believe Peter even said something like "Forget it man", but due to his arrogance, he decided to grab it. He would have been fine without it but still chose to grab it. So isn't that his own fault?

[capncnut]

they had access to wood and tools, why not set up a perimeter fence around the mall and the truck depot? cuz i dont think zombies can scale fences in that movie
Might work for Tim Allen and Richard Karn but setting up a parimeter fence around the mall with wood? Do you know how long that would take? :lol:

And I wouldn't put it past the zombies from scaling the fence or bashing it down either.

[acealive1]

I I think Peter's line was something like "One day someone will come snooping around. We don't want them to even know that this hall exists". That's not a 100% accurate quote, but you get what I mean.



pretty damn close


Might work for Tim Allen and Richard Karn but setting up a parimeter fence around the mall with wood? Do you know how long that would take? :lol:

And I wouldn't put it past the zombies from scaling the fence or bashing it down either.

this coming from someone who'd hole up in a pub :sneaky:

[capncnut]

this coming from someone who'd hole up in a pub :sneaky:
I guess that makes me Shaun then. :D

Plus, I fail to see what this inanity has to do with anything. Maybe I should put a parimeter around the pub. And the road. And the whole city while I'm at it. Just to make sure. :rolleyes:

[Bub666]

this coming from someone who'd hole up in a pub :sneaky:

Whats wrong with being holed up in a pub anyway?:D

[SRP76]

Might work for Tim Allen and Richard Karn but setting up a parimeter fence around the mall with wood? Do you know how long that would take? :lol:

And I wouldn't put it past the zombies from scaling the fence or bashing it down either.

"Hey, Al, why don't you go down there and start digging the holes in the asphalt for our fenceposts, while I keep you covered from up here on the mall roof?"

"I don't think so, Tim."

[sandrock74]

"Hey, Al, why don't you go down there and start digging the holes in the asphalt for our fenceposts, while I keep you covered from up here on the mall roof?"

"I don't think so, Tim."

LMAO! :lol:

[darth los]

Building a fence around the mall was not an option. Even if they had the resources it seems as if there came a point where they became complacent. There are many things that they could have done in terms of security but as we can tell by the way they tried to shut the gates to the stores in reponse to the raid they were ill prepared to deal with any external threat whether living or dead and not much thought went into it.

:cool:

[capncnut]

"Hey, Al, why don't you go down there and start digging the holes in the asphalt for our fenceposts, while I keep you covered from up here on the mall roof?"

"I don't think so, Tim."
Now that made me spit out my soda. Being a big Home Improvement fan an' all. :D

[Thorn]

"Hey, Al, why don't you go down there and start digging the holes in the asphalt for our fenceposts, while I keep you covered from up here on the mall roof?"

"I don't think so, Tim."


HAHA... I was a big fan of that show, so I could almost see them acting that out on the roof of the mall your delivery was excellent.

I totally agree with what was said above about them not being prepared and how they became far too lax. If they were not trying to lock doors they could have been sniping from fortified locations or just evacuating the mall. Either way Flyboy likely would not have become a zombie.

[Bub666]

"Hey, Al, why don't you go down there and start digging the holes in the asphalt for our fenceposts, while I keep you covered from up here on the mall roof?"

"I don't think so, Tim."

:lol::lol::lol:
Now that was hilarious.