Mall Strategy

[SRP76]

The Roger-biting thread is getting derailed by mall security strategies, so let's do that in this topic instead.

I say: forget a fence outside, and all that other stuff.

One possible thing I came up with is this: there are bound to be numerous buildings all around the vicinity of the mall (the camera angles aren't real great for seeing this, but it's common sense that a mall wasn't built in the middle of a desert). How about securing them, one-by-one?

Use the helicopter to get in from above (just like they did the mall), and secure each building from the inside. Once that's done, they can try to find enough supplies in the sporting goods stores to establish a network of elevated lines between buildings (think mountain-climbing, here). Then, use those (to conserve helicopter fuel) to move supplies from the mall into each of these "satellite safe-houses".

By doing that, they will still have mutiple safe hideouts to run to if the mall falls.

[Bub666]

The one thing that always bothered me about Dawn was,why didn't they bring all the guns and ammo upstairs with them.If they would've done that,they would've had an easer time stopping the biker gang from getting into the mall.Or at the very least,stop the biker gang from using the guns on them.

Also,why didn't they always keep the doors to the stores close at all times.If they had kept the doors close,Flyboy never would have died.And Flyboy never would've led all those zombies upstairs with him.

[Thorn]

I certainly think more could and should have been done to secure the mall. Instead of shopping trips, grabbing cash, and romantic dinners. I would have been working on my fortifications. I definitely would have kept the stores locked all the time. There is no need to keep them all open. Maybe one or two of the most frequented but that is up for debate. I would have used the cars to move large heavy objects in front of the doors from the inside as well and made getting in harder, If you fortify a door and people have to work to get through it as they do so one person can very effectively take cover from range and take them out or slow their progress with a rifle.

That is the point of a barricade. While I know the movie is limited in what they could get away with in the mall, and that there were budget issues. Creating one barricade would be doable to show in the film the efforts they went through to prevent entry. Again I think a barricade is something we ALL think about. Shut door, lock door, secure door. You could even use the cars as parts of the barricades and if you had a breach then shoot the gas tank. If it looks like you are loosing the mall anyway the damage is something you can life with.

The biker gang was not despite the claims in the movie a moving army, they were a bunch of idiots and looters. They announced they were coming in and they did. Made no effort to limit the amount of zombies so they knew they had to deal with humans sand zombies. Overconfident they were, a crack military unit not so much. Shooting a guy on a motorcycle for a marksman can be a challenge but it is not impossible certainly especially if they are approaching you.

Molotov cocktails hurled from the upper balcony would have been a good way to impede their progress as well, and easy enough to put those fires out with fire extinguishers if you fought them off. If not you would be leaving anyway so who cares?

As I mentioned in the other thread those trucks were not prepared properly to be barricades. They were left in a state that made them easy to move. They should have been incapacitated, tires shot out, engines riddles with bullets, wires yanked out from under the dash. If it is a "wall" moving it is something you don’t need as an option.

After securing the mall I can see the logic behind securing other nearby buildings and using them as a satellite facilities "just in case". In fact it makes more sense in so many ways for them to base out of a smaller building that is less of a target than the mall. I am not sure about the rope system this is problematic as it gives looters clear view of where you are or where you are going, but it is not completely unworkable and after a while it becomes much more appealing once there are fewer looters around.

[Trin]

When looking at the Dawn crew and what they did I think there are several things to keep in mind.

When they arrived at the mall there was still hope that the situation would be worked out. It was a temporary refuge. A "free lunch" as they called it. They were never planning to make the mall a home. As the days wore on they got comfortable due to inertia, not planning. Days turned into months. There was a mental malaise over them.

Eventually they broke out of it. Prior to the bikers arrival Fran was learning to fly the chopper and they were packing the chopper with supplies to leave.

Why would you fortify someplace you were planning to leave? They hadn't had contact with other humans for months and the zombies were quite clearly unable to penetrate the fortifications they had.

Why would you keep the mall stores closed? It would just be an inconvenience. Remember that you are there for months and months with nothing to do and seemingly with no threat from the outside.

I do agree that moving the firearms upstairs made sense.

None of this is to say that I endorse their strategy - only that I understand it. I would've looked at the mall as a base of operations and used the trucks to scout the local area for supplies. My first goal would be to build some kind of garage/enclosure for a truck that you could open and close with little threat from zombies. Then find sources for fuel, food, and medicine.

I also think it would make sense to fortify against a weather catastrophe - fire, flood, tornado. Move some supplies to the lowest level in the middle. Prepare some emergency stategies.

[Thorn]

Very well made points and I aree with most of them. I am just not sold on the fact they were nto there for the logn haul they sort of went out of their way to say they could take it and make it their own. They then went to great lengths to build a fake wall, so they were counting on others showing up. Keeping the stores lock does several things, it keeps the dead out, it keep the living out.

It is an added precaution, and personally I am all about preparing for the worst. I work in disaster recovery in IT. When we had the major storms off the coast near the Carolinas recently the people in the data centers down there were taking no action to prepare for a disaster. They were planning on best case scenario as news reports were implying when it made land fall it would not turn into anything major.'

The same report nearly guaranteed flooding.

Bottom line for me is prepare for the worst hope for the best. It takes some effort to prepare for bad things that may go down, but it is better than not preparing and finding you are up the creek without a paddle.

Moving the guns would have been a must for me as well as securing elevators and stairs and setting up defensive firing positions from above.

[dracenstein]

They did move some weapons and ammo upstairs and evidently said, 'That's enough for our needs'. And they were probably right.

What I would have done is taken rifles up to the roof to look for the raiders then shoot-'em-up.

Dead, wounded, unbiked. Doesn't matter. Closer they get, the better your accuracy (hopefully) and if they are are wounded or knocked off their bikes, they start to have zombie problems.

Better to deal with them before they get into the mall, because when they leave, you are going to have to start from scratch again to secure the mall and clean up the zombies.

[sandrock74]

I mentioned in a post long, long ago that the grocery store shown in the mall parking lot should have been converted into safehouse #1. If it had been secured the same as the mall, at the end of the movie, Fran and Peter could have just flown across the parking lot! (Not sure if you could have landed the copter on its roof...probably not...but they wouldn't have had to go far.)

Hell, even clearing out the truck place would have been an option. It was gated after all. Just lock up the gate and blow any zombies there away. Safehouse #2.

I also stated in a post long ago (maybe it was the same one as mentioned above) that I would also have the gates on the stores closed at all times as a safety precaution. I would actually keep the banks gates open. If the mall was raided and they found everything locked EXCEPT the bank, you know they'd waste time looting the cash. I might just keep the large department stores unlocked and open because those can be locked in a hurry (what was there, 4 of them?). Just common sense kinda stuff.

That's my two cents.

[Bub666]

Why would you keep the mall stores closed? It would just be an inconvenience. Remember that you are there for months and months with nothing to do and seemingly with no threat from the outside.

How would it be a inconvenience? It would take two seconds to open the doors,two seconds is not an inconvenience.With the doors close it would be a huge inconvenience to the biker gang trying to loot the stores,and at the same time have to deal with all those zombies in the mall.

[Thorn]

I mentioned in a post long, long ago that the grocery store shown in the mall parking lot should have been converted into safehouse #1. If it had been secured the same as the mall, at the end of the movie, Fran and Peter could have just flown across the parking lot! (Not sure if you could have landed the copter on its roof...probably not...but they wouldn't have had to go far.)

Hell, even clearing out the truck place would have been an option. It was gated after all. Just lock up the gate and blow any zombies there away. Safehouse #2.

I also stated in a post long ago (maybe it was the same one as mentioned above) that I would also have the gates on the stores closed at all times as a safety precaution. I would actually keep the banks gates open. If the mall was raided and they found everything locked EXCEPT the bank, you know they'd waste time looting the cash. I might just keep the large department stores unlocked and open because those can be locked in a hurry (what was there, 4 of them?). Just common sense kinda stuff.

That's my two cents.

Some really good points here and ones I never really looked at before so thanks for that, I will watch again for that super market. Again having MORE options is not a bad thing, you always need a plan B, and a plan C. D well, maybe that's is too much to consider I do not know but I sure as heck am not putting all my eggs in one basket.

They didn't with the chopper pilot. Shouldn't with some place to go either.

[CornishCorpse]

SRP my man youve got some good points there as have everyone. Great minds think alike, Ive often thought that a good way to secure a street for example Andys gunshop in dawn 04 would be to block the windows and doors and stay inside and quiet. If you drew to much attention then you could simply use the walkway which would only have to be a couple planks of wood to get to the next store and pull up the planks. If the zeds managed to get to the roof they would simply dive into the space between the building, if there were too many you could simply diseppear into the next store and then use a machete to retake the stores you left. You could take a whole street if you put enough thought into it and have supplies galore. Wooden walkways and youre sorted, if they do sniff you out you loose one of what 6-8 hideouts? You pack them all with all the neccesities so if you leave anything behind you can get get it from the next store rather than wasting time packing.

Heh Im getting off topic. Well as others have mentioned the idea of using all of the small surrounding buildings of the mall as possible enclaves, to stash stuff if need be aswell as hide and if the supermarket had been taken up that would have been an ideal move. The bikers werent getting out of there and that just leaves the zeds but they would have not a hope in helll breaking the fortificatons. The bank idea I realy do like, maybe with a few explosives could have been a warning to the bikers if nothing else it would have told the zeds were the meat is. Angry,surrounded and now outnumbered bikers wouldnt have had a hard time hacking their way through the dead masses, a few of the bikers got picked off by our heroes but they werent a great threat. If I was a member of the raiders, I wouldnt have been concerned. Two men with rifles vs maybe fifty well armed bikers? Someone would have got them. Some traps could have changed the game alot.

[Trin]

It seems to me that there's a lot of hindsight going on here. It's easy to formulate what they could've done knowing a biker gang would eventually roll up and force their way in, but I think it's difficult to justify preparing for that contingency. They were unprepared for lots of things. A biker gang is just one example, and probably not a likely one by comparison.

What if a storm had ripped through the area and wrecked the chopper? That would've been devastating.

What if a fire had broken out in the mall? The fire department isn't going to show up anymore.

What if the power had gone out? Having those shop gates open doesn't seem so ill-prepared when the motor driven fences have no juice.

They were not prepared for any of those situations, and all of them would've happened eventually. The idea of securing other safe houses in the area is a good one and helps in a lot of these situations.

Given that they'd not seen another human for months the likelihood of a biker gang even existing was low.

Regarding the biker gang - another question has always troubled me. Why would a biker gang mess with the mall? What were they hoping to gain by invading it? The obvious answer is loot. And I know they were a bunch of stupid rednecks. But really. They had to have passed by dozens of similar malls in their travels, all of which were ripe for looting. Why mess with a mall that has people in it who will surely put up armed resistance? Any idiot could see they'd lose some people in the exchange. Why would anyone risk that?

I'd also point out that the Dawn crew had a plan. They were going to hide upstairs and hope the gang didn't find the stairs. That plan could very easily have worked. The situation they ended up in was based on Stephen's emotional decision to start a fight, not on bad planning.

Personally, I'd love to see Dawn of the Dead 2 where Peter and Fran fly around in their chopper dropping molotovs on the biker gang from 1000+ feet for months and months until the bikers are crying like little girls.

[SRP76]

They had to have passed by dozens of similar malls in their travels, all of which were ripe for looting. Why mess with a mall that has people in it who will surely put up armed resistance? Any idiot could see they'd lose some people in the exchange. Why would anyone risk that?



I guarantee this wasn't the first mall they raided. They're professional looters; they've likely tossed dozens of places during their travels.

[Bub666]

I guarantee this wasn't the first mall they raided. They're professional looters; they've likely tossed dozens of places during their travels.

Yeah,it seemed to me that they had looted a mall before.

[Mike70]

i am gonna agree with SRP here in principal, if not in manner.

i would've established some other safehouses in the immediate area. stocked them with food, ammo, guns. these could be used as both refuge and storage areas.

i probably would've used the helicopter to booby trap the main approach to the mall by dropping stuff onto the road that would puncture the tires of anyone trying to get near.

someone would've been on watch up on the roof at all times as well. the person on watch would not only have been up there to watch for looters, strangers, etc. approaching but also to keep an eye on the number of zombies. how many are there approximately in the parking lot? are their numbers continuing to grow and if so how fast? where do they tend to congregate and does their concentration change during the day/night?

i probably would've still tried to block the main doors with the trucks after some better thought out planning. one of things i would've done with the trucks before trying to block the doors would be to drive through the parking lot, running over as many zombies as was possible. this would thin the herd out a bit and even if it didn't destroy them outright, maybe you break legs, etc. and reduce their mobility. this would also draw them away from the building and make it easier to park the truck and make a safe get away.

[Trin]

I guarantee this wasn't the first mall they raided. They're professional looters; they've likely tossed dozens of places during their travels.And that's exactly my point. Why would any group of looters be interested in THIS mall? There's nothing inside there they couldn't have gotten from a dozen other malls. Why risk meeting armed resistance for a little looting? The biker gang would know that the surrounding areas had not been looted. It stands to reason that the mall residents were low on supplies. There was little to gain.

Honestly, if you get down to brass tacks, the only thing worth taking out of that mall was Fran.

[SRP76]

And that's exactly my point. Why would any group of looters be interested in THIS mall? There's nothing inside there they couldn't have gotten from a dozen other malls. Why risk meeting armed resistance for a little looting? The biker gang would know that the surrounding areas had not been looted. It stands to reason that the mall residents were low on supplies. There was little to gain.

Honestly, if you get down to brass tacks, the only thing worth taking out of that mall was Fran.

The surrounding area probably was looted, by these very people. The mall is just the next thing in front of them; they aren't going to pass it by. They don't care that "some" of their people get shot. They know they can get in, and take whatever they want.

[Yojimbo]

And that's exactly my point. Why would any group of looters be interested in THIS mall? There's nothing inside there they couldn't have gotten from a dozen other malls. Why risk meeting armed resistance for a little looting? The biker gang would know that the surrounding areas had not been looted. It stands to reason that the mall residents were low on supplies. There was little to gain.

Honestly, if you get down to brass tacks, the only thing worth taking out of that mall was Fran.
I don't know about there being little to gain apart from Fran. In my view, guns and ammo were an important enough reason on it's own to raid the mall.

[Trin]

The long and short of it is that the rednecks attacked the mall because they were rednecks. They were bullies who wanted to screw it up for whoever was living there. And they weren't that bright.

Do you really think they needed the guns and ammo from that particular mall Yojimbo? They had the whole world to loot. They were running around with machine guns and grenades in such supply that they could shoot into the air.

Lol - this conversation is making me mad at Dawn for them not being able to repel the bikers. :)

[dracenstein]

Remember, when this film was made, Malls were a new thing and very few of them built. Now we have at least one in every large town.

So the raiders would raid it for the novelty factor alone!

[acealive1]

Honestly, if you get down to brass tacks, the only thing worth taking out of that mall was Fran.


kinda reminds me of what my uncle says "when the rubber meets the road" :lol::lol: