The Impossibility of Supply

[SRP76]

I noticed something when I went shopping today that kind of exposes the impracticality of some of our movie survival techniques.

We see in Land of the Dead that it's been three years since the dead started eating folks. Our band of survivors gets by by raiding surrounding towns. Wonderful.

Except, we see them stocking up on canned goods. And antibiotics.

Well, I got a can of chicken noodle soup today. Checked the expiration date. Guess what? Two years. A long time, yes. But, even canned goods do NOT last forever. By three years, they will be inedible.

And antibiotics don't last anywhere near three years. They have a one-year lifespan.

The same could be said for all the liquor, medicines, etc.

So, it seems that no matter how well-stocked you start out, by a little over two years in, you will have no medicines (better hope you stay healthy, with a superhuman immune system) and no pre-zombie consumables of any kind.

That puts a big crimp in the plans. You might be able to grow food (if you're damn lucky), but good luck making your own insulin for diabetics, blood pressure medication for the older members of your gang, and so forth.

[MaximusIncredulous]

I read in a book about SPAM that someone ate a can of it that was 25 years old with no ill effects. SPAM usually has an expiration date of around 2 years. So it might be possible that canned food might last longer than stated on the can. Of course that depends on storage environment.

[Thorn]

I think honestly that in any post apocalyptic situation you could forage, scrounge, and raid only so long. After that you would definitely need to have plans to grow your own food. In any of the fiction I write, or survival plans I build growing food and gathering animals for food is always something I consider.. Medicine is a much harder situation of course, and would be problematic. We have extended the average life span of humans through advances in medical science. Bugs and such have grown stronger. So I think ultimately the average life span of a healthy human would go down. You should plan on gathering a knowledge base on creation of simple medicines, foraging for herbs and the like in the wild..

Also construction of solar panels and such would come in very handily, but that is a different topic. These can be made quite easily actually, and not too costly. Also wind energy and the ability to harness it, a young adult named William Kamkwamba's Malawi built a windmill to create electricity for his remote village in Malawi, S. Africa out of spare bicycle parts and blue gum trees.

Life would certainly change but there is plenty you could do to grow food, medicine, and create energy. Three things that go away if civilization fails.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I noticed something when I went shopping today that kind of exposes the impracticality of some of our movie survival techniques.

We see in Land of the Dead that it's been three years since the dead started eating folks. Our band of survivors gets by by raiding surrounding towns. Wonderful.

Except, we see them stocking up on canned goods. And antibiotics.

Well, I got a can of chicken noodle soup today. Checked the expiration date. Guess what? Two years. A long time, yes. But, even canned goods do NOT last forever. By three years, they will be inedible.

And antibiotics don't last anywhere near three years. They have a one-year lifespan.

The same could be said for all the liquor, medicines, etc.

So, it seems that no matter how well-stocked you start out, by a little over two years in, you will have no medicines (better hope you stay healthy, with a superhuman immune system) and no pre-zombie consumables of any kind.

That puts a big crimp in the plans. You might be able to grow food (if you're damn lucky), but good luck making your own insulin for diabetics, blood pressure medication for the older members of your gang, and so forth.

Actually medications don't suddenly become useless, they just begin to lose 100% efficacy at the expiration date. It would take 5+8 years before most anti-biotics would be of no medicinal value whatsoever.

Trust me,, I work in the pharmaceutical industry. Also, keep in mind expiration dates are based on shelf life in pharmacies, not homes. With no power, mostly dark cool environments, those drugs could last for sometime.

Food I don't disagree with you on, but medications yes. Also, keep in mind if the product has not been exposed to the environment, meaning it is still sealed, most drugs would still be in good shape.

[MikePizzoff]

Actually, liquor has a shelf life of... well, a very long time. They'd just have to shake the bottles up a little bit each time to prevent settling, but that pretty much doesn't even happen for many years.

[AcesandEights]

I think many canned goods would still be edible with varying levels of illness a possibility after the expiration date. I view the expiration date on canned goos as a cover-your-ass date by the manufacturers.

Apparently shelf life varies on canned goods depending on what is being canned and the process: >Clicky< (http://www.y2kkitchen.com/html/can_code_decoder.html)

I'd think your bigger worry from Land would be the 'shelf life' of gas, as I believe an additive in common gas starts to go bad after a certain amount of time, but apparently there a lot of questions on what the possible max shelf life of properly stored gasoline is...>Clicky< (http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gaslifepal.htm)

[EvilNed]

Yeah, I also read an article from not too long ago of a guy eating a 25 year old canned chicken. There were no ill effects.

And I bought some canned tuna the other day. expiration 2012, so that's four years and beyond.

[Publius]

Apparently shelf life varies on canned goods depending on what is being canned and the process: >Clicky< (http://www.y2kkitchen.com/html/can_code_decoder.html)


That link suggests that we should all stock up on Hormel Corned Beef -- with an "indefinite" shelf life. :)

This document says that expiration dates mostly deal with flavor and consistency, but that most canned food is safe to eat for years later as long as the can is intact and not rusted, dented, or bulging:

http://ces.ca.uky.edu/allen/fcs/Canned%20Food%20Shelf%20Life.pdf

If the food is questionable, just make sure you can heat it thoroughly and try a small portion before eating the whole can. Reheating should kill any microbes, and if you don't eat too much any other toxins might make you feel a little sick but won't kill you.

[Thorn]

I think many canned goods would still be edible with varying levels of illness a possibility after the expiration date. I view the expiration date on canned goos as a cover-your-ass date by the manufacturers.

Apparently shelf life varies on canned goods depending on what is being canned and the process: >Clicky< (http://www.y2kkitchen.com/html/can_code_decoder.html)

I'd think your bigger worry from Land would be the 'shelf life' of gas, as I believe an additive in common gas starts to go bad after a certain amount of time, but apparently there a lot of questions on what the possible max shelf life of properly stored gasoline is...>Clicky< (http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gaslifepal.htm)

Awesome links thank you very much.

[Bub666]

I'd think your bigger worry from Land would be the 'shelf life' of gas, as I believe an additive in common gas starts to go bad after a certain amount of time, but apparently there a lot of questions on what the possible max shelf life of properly stored gasoline is...>Clicky< (http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gaslifepal.htm)

I never knew gasoline would last that long.I always thought that gasoline would only last a few years.

[Publius]

I never knew gasoline would last that long.I always thought that gasoline would only last a few years.

Yeah, the shelf life of gasoline is a good thing to keep in mind, too. Diesel is a bit more stable. Also, there may be less competition for diesel fuel since commercial trucking will be disrupted, there aren't many diesel-powered consumer vehicles on the road, and not many people know how to drive a tractor-trailer/articulated lorry. So a diesel-powered 4x4 pickup truck, Jeep, or Hummer might be a good choice. There are even some diesel motorcycles, in case the roads are too jammed with wrecks and abandoned vehicles to get around in a truck or SUV.

[carpetbeggar]

I don't totally buy the expiration date on canned goods. Twenty years ago you never saw expiration dates on canned food. Nowadays they have dates on virtually everything you buy from food to cleaning products. Like someone said I think it just means that after the date the flavouring may begin to change, also it's a way of manufactures to make sure of product turnover whereby people will have to go out and buy another bottle of this or another can of that after the best before of say two years when in reality the product would be safe to use for like 10 or more.

[Publius]

I don't totally buy the expiration date on canned goods. Twenty years ago you never saw expiration dates on canned food. Nowadays they have dates on virtually everything you buy from food to cleaning products. Like someone said I think it just means that after the date the flavouring may begin to change, also it's a way of manufactures to make sure of product turnover whereby people will have to go out and buy another bottle of this or another can of that after the best before of say two years when in reality the product would be safe to use for like 10 or more.

True. Here's more on expiration dates. This page points out that they're often phrased "for best quality use by." It also points out that the nutritive value of some foods will deteriorate over time, specifically with reference to baby formula, so a baby fed with expired formula will be at risk of malnourishment more than food poisoning.

http://hoke.ces.ncsu.edu/index.php?page=news&ci=HOME+1

[acealive1]

im glad there's a few stores walking distance (300 feet) i'd be set for a LONG time

[tju1973]

I found a C-Rat can of raisin bread burried at Ft Hunter-Ligett (Sp?) in the mid 90s--- it was every bit of 15-20 years old or better--

I cut it open and ate it-- it tatsed like crap, but was edible. Canned goods have a date for liability reasons-- We routinly ate "old" canned goods-- they almost always would have been good years past their date..

My worries would be gas-- perishable meds-- bagged gunpowder-- fresh veggies go without saying...

Canned goods would be good years after the fall-- regardless what Uncle Sam makes them put on the label. Keep in a cool place will extend life beyond that even.

[dracenstein]

I had been thinking that expiry dates are more benefit to the producers. It stops you from stockpiling and forces you to buy more.

The gasoline article was interesting, and I think that the fuel companies has a vested interest in keeping everybody thinking that it has a short shelf-life, to keep people from stockpiling during low fuel price times so that they don't buy in high price times, or like now, in the middle of the global credit crunch! But that was in a stable environment with a stable temperature. What about here in the UK? Seasonal variances in temperatures? Let alone 'summer' and winter.

[MikePizzoff]

That's crazy that gas lasts that long. Like most others, I always thought it "went bad" after a few years of sitting.

A friend of mine works for the government, supplying rations to the military, and he's obtained rations from the 70's... which we obviously consumed, and they tasted perfectly fine.

[SymphonicX]

I think many canned goods would still be edible with varying levels of illness a possibility after the expiration date. I view the expiration date on canned goos as a cover-your-ass date by the manufacturers.

Apparently shelf life varies on canned goods depending on what is being canned and the process: >Clicky< (http://www.y2kkitchen.com/html/can_code_decoder.html)

I'd think your bigger worry from Land would be the 'shelf life' of gas, as I believe an additive in common gas starts to go bad after a certain amount of time, but apparently there a lot of questions on what the possible max shelf life of properly stored gasoline is...>Clicky< (http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/gaslifepal.htm)


Sell by dates are almost exactly as you said. The true explanation is as follows:

"we cannot guarantee the quality of this product after this date"

Doesn't mean you can't eat it or the day after the expiration it's going to kill you or taste awful, just that it'll slowly start to go off from that date - potentially.

didn't the guys in that stupid brendan fraiser movie life off canned goods for 30 years?

[Legion2213]

Most UK sell by dates are "recommended" sell by dates, I am sure that most food in cans will be good for several years, possibly decades if stored correctly.

That said, in the UK TV series "Survivors" (set in the early 70's) most people were starting to grow their own food after a year or so (with varying degrees of success), realising that you could only pick the bones of the old world for so long before things ran out...growing stuff would be very hard in a world with zombies, maybe impossible for very small groups.

[Wyldwraith]

Hmm,
I was just watching a show on the History Channel about canned foods. Right before going to commercial they like to flip up little trivia blurbs related to the subject of the show. In one of them they mentioned scientists testing a tin of salted veal from 1901 on orangutans, who suffered no ill effects from eating it, and their blood work was negative for food-borne toxins or bacteria.

Just a trivia blurb.

[Shadowofthedead]

there will always be wild animals but im sure they will almost surely disappear from the face of the planet once something like this would happen. hey peter griffin started new quahog with nothing but twinkies... anything is possible as long as we put enough planning and thought into it.

[Bub666]

there will always be wild animals but im sure they will almost surely disappear from the face of the planet once something like this would happen. hey peter griffin started new quahog with nothing but twinkies... anything is possible as long as we put enough planning and thought into it.

I could live the rest of my life,only eating twinkies:D

[MaximusIncredulous]

I could live the rest of my life,only eating twinkies:D

You're colon might not be so grateful :dead:

Maybe someone needs to start a "Getting fiber in an undead world" thread.

[acealive1]

You're colon might not be so grateful :dead:

Maybe someone needs to start a "Getting fiber in an undead world" thread.

the faster the crapping,the better

[MapMan]

There would be enough meat to last for a long time.


HamZombie Helper is available in numerous flavors, organized into various "Favorites" categories. These include: JUST ADD ZOMBIE

Homestyle Favorites
Zombie Pasta (formerly called "Beef Noodle")
Zombie Stroganoff
Potato Stroganoff (includes dehydrated potato slices) and Zombie meat
Salisbury
Italian Favorites
Lasagna
Four Cheese Lasagna
Spaghetti
Cheesy Italian Shells
Italian Sausage Zombie
Tomato Basil Penne
New Orleans Favorites
Cheesy Jambalaya
Cheesy Favorites
CheeseZombie Macaroni
Double CheeseZombie Macaroni
Three Cheese
Chili Cheese
Cheddar Cheese Melt
Philly Cheesesteak
Cheesy Hashbrowns
Bacon Cheeseburger
Cheesy Baked Potato
Mexican Favorites (co-branded with Old El Paso brand)
Cheesy Nacho
Chili Macaroni
Cheesy Enchilada
Cheesy Zombie Taco
Crunchy Taco
Double Cheesy Quesadilla (originally "Double Cheese Quesadilla")
Zombie Romanoff
Zombie and Garlic Potatoes
Zombie Stew
Cheddar & Broccoli
Hash
Macaroni Cheese
Meatloaf(Zombie), Zesty Italian
Pizza Bake
Rice Oriental
Wild Rice & Mushrooms

[AcesandEights]

MapMan! Good to see you again, it's been awhile.

[acealive1]

wal mart is the kick it spot in case of a zed break

[Publius]

wal mart is the kick it spot in case of a zed break

At least if it's a non-California Walmart, where guns are available. The risk, though, is that everyone will think of Walmart first so it might be occupied by hostiles or already picked clean.

[Bub666]

wal mart is the kick it spot in case of a zed break

Yeah,wal mart would be the first place I would go.:D

[acealive1]

Yeah,wal mart would be the first place I would go.:D



same here. i'd go for the rural one out by the turnpike tho. i was in one today and if an outbreak happened, you'd be hard pressed to clear that wal mart out. on the bright side its in a strip mall with applebee's, aldi, gamestop and a few other stores

[Trencher]

there will always be wild animals but im sure they will almost surely disappear from the face of the planet once something like this would happen.

I dont think so, walkers are no threat to any annimal and the runners dont seem to care, and even runners would have problems finding and hunting down annimals.

[Kaos]

Zombie Stroganoff is my favorite.

[Eyebiter]

You think that's bad? In 'City of Ember' movie folks are eating canned food that is 200 years old...

[acealive1]

Zombie Stroganoff is my favorite.


zombie strogie :lol::lol::lol: