Night Remake

[darth los]

So I'm Watching NOTLD Remake and a scene really stood out to me. It's after the truck blows up.

First off, Ben's decision to leave the gun with Barbara proved to be a costly one. It was his distrust of Cooper that prompted the decision. He said that he wanted Barbara "keeping things straight". What was he afraid of? What was Cooper going to do? But we all know what did happen and it seems worse than anything Cooper would have done otherwise

Because Ben didn't take the rifle Cooper did indeed gain possession of it, and as a result, killed ben with it. Another example of how the zombies are just the backdrop and the real story was the conflict between the humans. They could have all come out of that situation alive if they would have just compromised and worked TOGETHER. As much as we see Ben as the hero he, along with Cooper, was a big part of the problem. He wasn't even williing to consider other points of view. Cooper in the end turned out to be right. He wasn't even willing to give Barbara's idea of making a "walk" for it a chance. He just dismissed it out of hand. She turned out to be right as well. The person who was dead wrong in the end was Ben.

If they had worked together they would have had a working t.v., most likely discovered the attic space, which was a much better option than the cellar and found the key to the gas pump. Instead it was total chaos from the beginning.

Also, Ben left the gun with Barbara to make sure Cooper didn't pull anything, not to live out her Annie Oakley fantasies. She totally ignored cooper, which was the reason for her having the gun in the first place, and didn't do much to help ben. So, Cooper gets the rifle expends the rounds but is able to reload. Meanwhile Ben And Barb are bashing and then stripping an officer of his guns. Now this is what really gets me:

Ben goes to shoot Sarah because she has obviously turned. Cooper shoots ben in order to prevent this. Barbara has an opening and shoots Sarah. Now, Cooper turns to shoot Barbara but Ben has her back and clips Cooper. He goes after Cooper But Cooper shoots him first. My question is why didn't Barb have his back just as Ben had hers? That was foul. I'm no expert but it seems to me that it was the second shot that did Ben in, the one that Barb could have prevented.

So let's not give her all the praise because she was the one who survived. There were plenty of mistakes made by everyone and plenty of blame to go around. My theory for her Killing Cooper later on was that she knew she should have done it before and saved Ben's life. It's no coincidence that this happened as soon a s she learned Ben's fate.

Thoughts?



:cool:

[bassman]

That's the way I've always seen it. The people seeking safety inside were the ones that caused just about every single problem. The zombies didn't do jack sh*t...

As for the Ben/Cooper/Barbara shootout - I've never noticed that Barbara doesn't shoot back to protect Ben:stunned:. Maybe it's like you said and she didn't want to shoot a living person, but then later changed her mind after the "we're them and they're us" scene and seeing Ben dead?

The attic thing has always bothered me. Ben was pretty smart about his decisions before Cooper came up. He had his sh*t together and was doing pretty well as far as getting supplies and forming a plan. So he didn't notice the attic string when he was upstairs?:rockbrow:

Ya know, why is that in most of these movies they always seem to want to stay ground level or beneath ground level? Whenever I think about this kind of stuff and what I would do.... I immediately think of going UP(attic, upstairs, etc etc).

[sandrock74]

Yeah, I think including the attic at the end was a BAD idea. It made EVERYONE look stupid. In that kind of situation, who wouldn't have used the attic? You just go on up, close the hatch behind you and pull up the string. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BARRICADE IT!!!
How much more simple can it be?

Also, youd have roof access, you could see the surrounding area and easily know when help arrived. The basement was just plain dumb and so was anyone who wasted a breath fighting about it.

If zombies are walking down my street, the attic is my safespot. They can't get me up there. :sneaky:

[darth los]

That's the way I've always seen it. The people seeking safety inside were the ones that caused just about every single problem. The zombies didn't do jack sh*t...

As for the Ben/Cooper/Barbara shootout - I've never noticed that Barbara doesn't shoot back to protect Ben:stunned:. Maybe it's like you said and she didn't want to shoot a living person, but then later changed her mind after the "we're them and they're us" scene and seeing Ben dead?

The attic thing has always bothered me. Ben was pretty smart about his decisions before Cooper came up. He had his sh*t together and was doing pretty well as far as getting supplies and forming a plan. So he didn't notice the attic string when he was upstairs?:rockbrow:

Ya know, why is that in most of these movies they always seem to want to stay ground level or beneath ground level? Whenever I think about this kind of stuff and what I would do.... I immediately think of going UP(attic, upstairs, etc etc).

It's so true. They could have even went up, took all the supplies they needed and took the stairs out, vuala!! They would have had the best of both worlds. Virtually assured that the ghouls can't get to them while at the same time maintain manuverability and a viable escape route. I would have had serious reservations about locking myself in a place where there was only one/entrance exit.

Well, to be fair, what big time decisions did ben have to make before they encountered the others? It seems to me that everything was instinct, a no brainer. Let's lock ourselves in the house!! Brilliant!! He also didn't seem to be too interested in the tv when he was upstairs but when cooper had it all of a sudden he wanted dibs on it. Major hateration right there. Any good leader would have tried to get all the information possible and then go from there. Who knows, they could have discovered that rescue squads were in the area.. All of a sudden, waiting it out in the basement wouldn't have seen like such a bad idea. In fact it would have been a no brainer.

It was obvious to anyone with half a brain that the plan to board up the house was doomed from the start. There were ghouls breaking in every 5 minutes. If you think about it logically Ben was the most indecisive of the bunch. He was stuck in limbo between Making a break for it like Barb suggested or going downstairs like Cooper wanted to. Both were better than Doing what Ben wanted to.

There really is alot to disect in this film. Funny how we rarely discuss it though.



:cool:

[lullubelle]

Yeah, I think including the attic at the end was a BAD idea. It made EVERYONE look stupid. In that kind of situation, who wouldn't have used the attic? You just go on up, close the hatch behind you and pull up the string. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BARRICADE IT!!!
How much more simple can it be?

Also, youd have roof access, you could see the surrounding area and easily know when help arrived. The basement was just plain dumb and so was anyone who wasted a breath fighting about it.

If zombies are walking down my street, the attic is my safespot. They can't get me up there. :sneaky:


I have to agree with you here, I always thought, dang if that was me I've would of broken the stairs to 2nd floor somehow and stay in the second floor, it seems smarter than staying at ground level, the time it took them to barricade the house would have been better used tearing up the staircase, they should have eleminated the attic part cause you are right makes them all look stupid and is it me or in most of these movies the male characters are always trying to hose the place down with testostorones, you know "I am right" no "I am right" blah, blah, blah sorry guys

[MoonSylver]

So I'm Watching NOTLD Remake and a scene really stood out to me. It's after the truck blows up.

First off, Ben's decision to leave the gun with Barbara proved to be a costly one. It was his distrust of Cooper that prompted the decision. He said that he wanted Barbara "keeping things straight". What was he afraid of? What was Cooper going to do? But we all know what did happen and it seems worse than anything Cooper would have done otherwise

I assume he was afraid Cooper would take control of the house & barricade them out & refuse to let them back in.


Because Ben didn't take the rifle Cooper did indeed gain possession of it, and as a result, killed ben with it. Another example of how the zombies are just the backdrop and the real story was the conflict between the humans. They could have all come out of that situation alive if they would have just compromised and worked TOGETHER. As much as we see Ben as the hero he, along with Cooper, was a big part of the problem. He wasn't even williing to consider other points of view. Cooper in the end turned out to be right. He wasn't even willing to give Barbara's idea of making a "walk" for it a chance. He just dismissed it out of hand. She turned out to be right as well. The person who was dead wrong in the end was Ben.

All true. This is one reason I dig the remake so much. It takes the same story & tweaks it JUST A TAD. It's like watching a revival of a play. Same script for thre most part, but new interpretations. In the original, Ben come across somewhat more as the infallible hero. In this version, despite all good intentions, yes, he is ultimately wrong. Also in this version it is MUCH more pronounced than the original that the zombies won't be the prime cause of the fall of civilization: it's each other.


Also, Ben left the gun with Barbara to make sure Cooper didn't pull anything, not to live out her Annie Oakley fantasies. She totally ignored cooper, which was the reason for her having the gun in the first place, and didn't do much to help ben.

After the truck blew she saw the troble Ben was in & was attempting to provide support/cover.


Ben goes to shoot Sarah because she has obviously turned. Cooper shoots ben in order to prevent this. Barbara has an opening and shoots Sarah. Now, Cooper turns to shoot Barbara but Ben has her back and clips Cooper. He goes after Cooper But Cooper shoots him first. My question is why didn't Barb have his back just as Ben had hers? That was foul. I'm no expert but it seems to me that it was the second shot that did Ben in, the one that Barb could have prevented.

When Ben & Cooper started blasting away at each other, she seemed totally shocked, as would most people. Not a rational decision, but a very human & believable one. I can see a lot of people freezing up under those circumstances.


So let's not give her all the praise because she was the one who survived. There were plenty of mistakes made by everyone and plenty of blame to go around. My theory for her Killing Cooper later on was that she knew she should have done it before and saved Ben's life. It's no coincidence that this happened as soon a s she learned Ben's fate.

I saw it as more of a knee jerk reaction. He was a selfish jerk. He killed Ben. *BANG*. Regardless of who was right or wrong if he haden't done the things he did, they still might've had a chance & everyone else (other than Tom & Judy Rose) could have survived.


The attic thing has always bothered me. Ben was pretty smart about his decisions before Cooper came up. He had his sh*t together and was doing pretty well as far as getting supplies and forming a plan. So he didn't notice the attic string when he was upstairs?:rockbrow:


They were in a pretty big hurry & focused on what they were doing. I can totally buy that nobody noticed it. If they'ed gotten the house secured & quit going for each other's throats & had a chance to look around better than, yeah, somebody would/ should notice it.

This brings up another point in differences between the two versions. In the original the zombie onslaught occurs at a pretty leisurely pace. The are several "quiet" spots. In this one (even though the zombies still creep along), the sequence of events happen *BOOM*BOOM*BOOM* pretty rapid pace. It ratchets the tensions up quite a bit & makes it totally believable that the mistakes that are made, ARE made.

[MaximusIncredulous]

Ya know, why is that in most of these movies they always seem to want to stay ground level or beneath ground level? Whenever I think about this kind of stuff and what I would do.... I immediately think of going UP(attic, upstairs, etc etc).

Maybe it's meant to be some sort of throwback to bomb shelter days. End of the world. Quick!!! Run downstairs.

[Thorn]

In both the original and the remake I see Ben as having made the wrong decisions, and Cooper as making the right ones. While we dislike Cooper and are meant to I feel we are also meant to like Ben. In the end that he was wrong, and his choices and arguments lead to his death and the death of others is part of the lesson, or at least part of the irony.

I agree with so much of what is in this thread, especially about going up and not down. Until I see zombie ladder teams assailing walls I am going up stairs, taking all I can with me, and removing stairs as I go or at least concentrating on making them impassable which is not as hard as one might think. In this case there is the attic which I would use as a fall back position, and ultimately I would make sure I had the ability to knock a whole through the roof. Again people who have never work construction might not think this is possible or feasible. It very much is and without the need for complex tools.

House construction is amazing and your home can stand for many years. It was built by man though and is held together by gravity first and foremost, and secured with nails and screws. Hang flags out the windows that say "Alive inside" "Don't shoot in head" or "I'm not dead" so that the rescue team you are hoping arrives doesn't not take you out and you have your classic tower/siege situation.

I of course would like further back up plans, like ropes or items to make ropes to lower ourselves to the ground, a cover for the access hatch we would create to the rooftop if there were not a natural one available, and then running boards for the roof to avoid accidental falls.

[bassman]

I would make sure I had the ability to knock a whole through the roof. Again people who have never work construction might not think this is possible or feasible. It very much is and without the need for complex tools.


Yep. In most cases it's just plywood and shingles between the support beams.

I guess there's never really been a film that's tackled the "going up" a structure situation because while it would make more sense to us as a tactic for survival, it would probably make for some pretty boring zombie action.

"Okay...uhh...we knocked out the stairs and there's no way they can get up. No way at all. Yup. Umm.....now what?" *roll credits*

If I were in the situation, I would start at ground level and work my way up.

Ground level, Upstairs(knocking them out), Attic, Roof.

[AcesandEights]

"Okay...uhh...we knocked out the stairs and there's no way they can get up. No way at all. Yup. Umm.....now what?" *roll credits*


Did someone just write their first zombie short? Film that sucker!

[Thorn]

lol...

I totally agree it would make for less than fun movie watching in most cases. You could make it work though, you would just have to introduce other bits of drama. So that the logical choices that were made still went wrong.

To me it would be more interesting than the old "let's all split up and look for the killer". Yes it moves the story along, yes it enables the plot to unfold, but it fails basic principles of survival.

So I guess you would just have to introduce other elements to add suspense, drama, and conflict. Running out of food, power going out, no heat, someone in your sanctuary turns into a zombie due to natural or unnatural death, other survivors with bad intentions.

You then have to either use your escape plan or fight.

So while I totally agree and laughed out loud, I think you could do the logical in movies and still have a good film if the writers and directors worked harder at it and let go of some very tired cliches.

You know?

[darth los]

Yeah, I think including the attic at the end was a BAD idea. It made EVERYONE look stupid. In that kind of situation, who wouldn't have used the attic? You just go on up, close the hatch behind you and pull up the string. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BARRICADE IT!!!
How much more simple can it be?

Also, youd have roof access, you could see the surrounding area and easily know when help arrived. The basement was just plain dumb and so was anyone who wasted a breath fighting about it.

As I said earlier, however dumb the basement plan might have been it was still a better idea than staying on the ground floor and reinforcing barricades that the ghouls keep ripping through every 10 minutes.

Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that the constant distraction of constantly having to fend off the ghouls prevented them from calmly and collectively fomulating a plan? Atleast in the basement they could have gathered themselves and come up with a solid course of action.

And before anyone says that the ghouls would have gotten in the house and they would have been stuck there, remember that all that banging they were doing was attracting way more ghouls than they were keeping out with the barricade. Let's not forget that it was a rural area and there should have been no more than a dozen ghouls in the vicinity. I guess that's something they didn't have time to think about either.


I assume he was afraid Cooper would take control of the house & barricade them out & refuse to let them back in.

Maybe, but the whole plan was to get gas, pull the truck back up to the house, get everyone in and get the hell out of dodge. Why would they want to get back in the house? Better yet, why would Cooper want to stay in there when everyone else was leaving? No one could have predicted that the truck was gonna blow leaving a chaotic scene, which was really the catalyst for everything going into a tailspin.


In both the original and the remake I see Ben as having made the wrong decisions, and Cooper as making the right ones. While we dislike Cooper and are meant to I feel we are also meant to like Ben. In the end that he was wrong, and his choices and arguments lead to his death and the death of others is part of the lesson, or at least part of the irony.

Now that you mention it we the viewers are guilty of the same irrational judgments that the characters in the film are.

Why do we hate Cooper? Because he acted like a total asshat and coward from the get go. But does that mean thhat his plan was wrong? We like Ben because he was brave and was trying to do the right thing. But does that mean he was right? Imo, a great lesson can be learned here. There are valid ideas all around even if we don't like the source it comes from.




:cool:

[Yojimbo]

There are valid ideas all around even if we don't like the source it comes from.


:cool:Excellent point, and well worth keeping in mind. Even Khardis, may he rest in peace, made sense from time to time.

[sandrock74]

As I said earlier, however dumb the basement plan might have been it was still a better idea than staying on the ground floor and reinforcing barricades that the ghouls keep ripping through every 10 minutes.

Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that the constant distraction of constantly having to fend off the ghouls prevented them from calmly and collectively fomulating a plan? Atleast in the basement they could have gathered themselves and come up with a solid course of action.

And before anyone says that the ghouls would have gotten in the house and they would have been stuck there, remember that all that banging they were doing was attracting way more ghouls than they were keeping out with the barricade. Let's not forget that it was a rural area and there should have been no more than a dozen ghouls in the vicinity. I guess that's something they didn't have time to think about either.



Going into the basement was a bad idea! Who would seal themselves off to the world in a basement to "come up with a solid course of action", when any plan would call for them leaving the basement to investigate around the house anyway?? Thats just poor strategy. You wouldn't know what might be waiting for you on the other side of that basement door when you inevitably have to leave.
The upstairs and the attic as a fallback position was a far better idea, even with only a moment to think about it. :annoyed:

All of them safely upstairs would have made for a boring movie thou.

[MoonSylver]

Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that the constant distraction of constantly having to fend off the ghouls prevented them from calmly and collectively fomulating a plan? Atleast in the basement they could have gathered themselves and come up with a solid course of action.

And before anyone says that the ghouls would have gotten in the house and they would have been stuck there, remember that all that banging they were doing was attracting way more ghouls than they were keeping out with the barricade. Let's not forget that it was a rural area and there should have been no more than a dozen ghouls in the vicinity. I guess that's something they didn't have time to think about either.

Yep & Yep. All the rushing around trying to defend the house DOES keep them from stopping & thinking things through even better and ironically it's also the very thing that draws in even MORE zombies to deal with than if they'd laid low, holed up & kept quiet.

However, we the viewer have the advantage of being able to see things from the outside & with knowledge of how the drama unfolds. Given the context of the situation I can see Ben's actions as understandable & on the surface of things they seem rational enough. Only from the outside & armed w/ foreknowledge do we see the flaws in the plans.

Interestingly enough, in the remake it seems to me like one of the things Ben fears is stopping too long to think things through. It seems like he's afraid if they don't do SOMETHING, they'll freeze up like Barb did. You get the feeling his idea is to latch onto an idea & run with it, rather than do nothing.

[kona843]

I dont mean to make this sound like a blunt comment, but I just thought it was a good film about zombies, just like the origional night, and just like the origional dawn. No hidden stories or messages, just things to move the story along. Does anyone agree?

[AcesandEights]

Well, I don't know that I definitively agree with the statement. I do think the film was thoughtfully made, but not with too much overt preachiness, but a few telling ideas echoing what people have always pointed out about the original (failure to work together to get through the situation being what really leads to the group's downfall) and a few telling ideas about the innate, almost primal, destructiveness of mankind (thinking about the ending).

[Thorn]

Well, I don't know that I definitively agree with the statement. I do think the film was thoughtfully made, but not with too much overt preachiness, but a few telling ideas echoing what people have always pointed out about the original (failure to work together to get through the situation being what really leads to the group's downfall) and a few telling ideas about the innate, almost primal, destructiveness of mankind (thinking about the ending).

I agree with this statement 100%.

It was a good zombie movie, and there were messages there for you if you wanted to see them. It was not overblown and preachy or hammered into your skull. But it was there, the way a message should be in this genre as a subtle undercurrent or through symbolism.

As a viewer I get offended when a director feels the need to spell his message out to me, maybe some people wont get it. Maybe. But give us the benefit of the doubt, give us some credit, do not put yourself above us and preach down to us.

You know at least one guy who feels the need to explain his jokes to you right? You either are offended because he assumes you are not smart enough to grasp "such high brow humor" or the joke is not worth telling if it needs to come with a full blown explanation.

For me film is the same way.

[Yojimbo]

But give us the benefit of the doubt, give us some credit, do not put yourself above us and preach down to us.




For some reason, Bono from U2 came to mind when I read this post. Apologies to the U2 fans out there. :)

[Craig]

This isn't really relative to the original post but I watched Night '90 again the other day and had a thought; when Tom shoots the lock off the gas tank and the gasoline spurts out and catches fire on the torch on the back of the truck... I would have found that scene much more believable if he'd simply smashed the lock off with the butt of the shotgun and then the gasoline spurted out.

While he's young he sounds like quite a 'country boy' so I doubt he wouldn't realise how dangerous shooting at the gas tank was, and since the fire source for the explosion was the torch in the flatbed, smashing the lock could've garnered the same results.

[bassman]

I don't know guys...the ending to Night90 is pretty damn "preachy", imho.

[AcesandEights]

I don't know guys...the ending to Night90 is pretty damn "preachy", imho.

Now I'm going to have to make time to re-watch Night '90 :)

[Thorn]

I don't know guys...the ending to Night90 is pretty damn "preachy", imho.


How so? Just curious as to what your take is on it, I too will go back and re-watch it for what you are talking about. I remember the end being interesting in that again Ben was wrong and the cellar brought only death. The keys were there the whole time in the cellar, and if Cooper had taken the tiem to work with the people upstairs they might well have lived. Again "people cause the problems, not the dead".

Then in the end she seeks revenge on cooper for the wrong he has done.

I think there is a message there, but I did not see it as forced down our throats you know?

Hmm.

I will watch it tonight and wait to see your take.

[bassman]

I was refering more to the rednecks treating it like a big vacation and the whole "we're them and they're us" line.

[Thorn]

I was refering more to the rednecks treating it like a big vacation and the whole "we're them and they're us" line.

That is a good point. That was right there borderline "in your face" for me, and something I think we could have done without. The visualization was enough for anyone with a mind to see we did not need to have it explained.

Great point.

[MoonSylver]

That is a good point. That was right there borderline "in your face" for me, and something I think we could have done without. The visualization was enough for anyone with a mind to see we did not need to have it explained.

Great point.

I thought it teetered right on the edge without going over. It was overt, but we weren't beaten over the head with it. Now going on about it for 90 min WOULD have been over the edge (Diary. As much as I like it, this was one of my few complaints. You can make a point with out having to make it OVER & OVER AGAIN through out the ENTIRE MOVIE...)

[Andy]

I dont mean to make this sound like a blunt comment, but I just thought it was a good film about zombies, just like the origional night, and just like the origional dawn. No hidden stories or messages, just things to move the story along. Does anyone agree?

You did realise this was a GAR discussion board when you joined up didnt you? :rockbrow: