Compulsary Civil Service [Archive]

strayrider

13-Nov-2008, 02:28 PM

And here I thought you'd be happy that welfare teens would be giving something back to the community.

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished.

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

This Amendment, of course, does not apply to a military draft, however: Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service."

I'm not an expert on Constitutional law by any means, but there is something about all of this that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Furthermore, if George Bush, or any non-Democrat would have suggested this, how loud would the Democrats have "squealed"? :lol:

Don't fret about this really happening, it's just nice to see the Marxists tipping their hand so early in the game.

:D

-stray-

Publius

13-Nov-2008, 02:57 PM

I'm not an expert on Constitutional law by any means, but there is something about all of this that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Furthermore, if George Bush, or any non-Democrat would have suggested this, how loud would the Democrats have "squealed"? :lol:

Exactly. This is pretty disturbing. And darn right if this idea had come from the lips of Bush or Cheney most Democrats would be screaming "Fascism! Hitler Youth!" at the top of their lungs.

Usumgal

13-Nov-2008, 06:23 PM

Thats okay, Obamas official site changed it from Mandatory once us right-wingers started noticing. But thats fine. Google Cached it and Ron Pauls site saved those caches.

Lenin pulled the same type of **** but they didn't have the net and the ability to go back to yesterday.

Mutineer

13-Nov-2008, 06:52 PM

I think there'd be massive resistance to that idea being put into place.

I would not mind a voluntary service with tax breaks of educational assistance for the kids but mandatory ?

**** that

Should have voted RON PAUL, SHEEP

strayrider

13-Nov-2008, 11:58 PM

Should have voted RON PAUL, SHEEP

Lol ... he wasn't running.

Chuck Baldwin, because a vote for McCain would've been a wasted vote.

:D

-stray-

Thats okay, Obamas official site changed it from Mandatory once us right-wingers started noticing. But thats fine. Google Cached it and Ron Pauls site saved those caches.

Lenin pulled the same type of **** but they didn't have the net and the ability to go back to yesterday.

I haven't spent much time on Mr. Obama's site, but I've read and heard that they've "changed" a lot of things since the election.

OBAMA for CHANGE. :lol:

Exatreides

14-Nov-2008, 01:30 AM

I support the draft and mandatory service. Nations like Israel and other nations have this and it works well.

Funny how patriotic people are until they are actually made to do something. Then they turn into screaming liberals worse then a stadium full of rage against the machine fans.

Yet when anyone doesn't agree with your view points you automatically label them as un patriotic and slap labels like "freedom fries" on ****.

Na, go ahead and continue supporting America through corporate consumerism and shopping wal-mart, then driving of with your new flat screen TV in your gas guzzling SUV with a "support the troops" magnetic ribbon on the back.

Hypocrites

Oh and about Ron Paul, if you want to see an entirely free market nation, with out any government regulation like that loon wants.
Go to Somalia, where the free market reigns.

DubiousComforts

14-Nov-2008, 01:50 AM

it's just nice to see the Marxists tipping their hand so early in the game.
"That's important isn't it? To be right and everyone else to be wrong."
- Helen Cooper

AcesandEights

14-Nov-2008, 01:58 AM

"That's important isn't it? To be right and everyone else to be wrong."
- Helen Cooper

Are you confessing something to us, DC? :p

DubiousComforts

14-Nov-2008, 02:15 AM

Are you confessing something to us, DC? :p
Yeah, that I just hate being right all the time. :D

strayrider

14-Nov-2008, 03:34 AM

I support the draft and mandatory service. Nations like Israel and other nations have this and it works well.

Funny how patriotic people are until they are actually made to do something. Then they turn into screaming liberals worse then a stadium full of rage against the machine fans.

I also would support a draft, but only within the parameters of defending the United States and our territories. Israel and other nations? That's their business.

As for "making" Patriotic people "do something" ... well, we're Americans ... you don't "make" us do anything ... you ask ... nicely ... this is something that both Democrats and Republicans seem to have forgotten

:D

-stray-

SymphonicX

14-Nov-2008, 02:04 PM

Teach our kids to be dissaffected psychos? Gimmie a break.

I'd go to prison first.

AcesandEights

14-Nov-2008, 02:09 PM

This is a great thread; depending on who you supported in the elections and how you feel about the draft and/or civic duty you can be called a sheep and/or a hypocrite. Enlightening. Thanks to those of you who can't take your heads far enough out of your asses to have a reasonable conversation with the rest of us. :)

Publius

14-Nov-2008, 03:14 PM

Oh and about Ron Paul, if you want to see an entirely free market nation, with out any government regulation like that loon wants.
Go to Somalia, where the free market reigns.

Actually, the Somali economy is doing better than a lot of people assume. The telecommunications system, for example, is better than it was when the government ran it.

"Indicators of Somali welfare remain low in absolute terms, but compared to their status under government show a marked advance. Under statelessness life expectancy in Somalia has grown, access to health facilities has increased, infant mortality has dropped, civil liberties have expanded, and extreme poverty (less than $1 PPP/day) has plummeted. In many parts of the country even security has improved. In these areas citizens are safer than they’ve been in three decades (UNDP 2001). Somalia is far from prosperous, but it has made considerable strides since its government collapsed 15 years ago."

http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf

If they had the same free market economy but functioning justice, law enforcement, and military systems to prevent interclan warfare etc., they'd be much better off. We already have those advantages over Somalia.

Exatreides

14-Nov-2008, 03:33 PM

Move there, let me know how the free market is.

I'll take Sweden or Israel and we can share stories. ;)

Publius

14-Nov-2008, 04:08 PM

Move there, let me know how the free market is.

I'll take Sweden or Israel and we can share stories. ;)

Obviously it's worse in absolute terms than Sweden. You've gotta look at the baseline. The most brilliant economic policies in the world couldn't take Somalia from its level in the '90s to a first-world level in only a decade or two. But it HAS been moving in the right direction, contrary to most peoples' assumptions. And lack of economic regulation isn't the main thing keeping it from moving faster.

Mike70

14-Nov-2008, 04:14 PM

i would be against this sort of thing no matter which party proposed it. forcing people to work or fight against their will is morally outrageous and is very akin to something this country got rid of 140 odd years ago. any sort of compulsory "service" isn't what a republic ought to be about.

service is something that you take upon yourself, not something that is dictated by the govt. i volunteered for the army (ages ago) because i wanted to. if i had been forced to do it, i most likely would've be an unmotivated slug who was just trying to get through until it was over.

SymphonicX

14-Nov-2008, 04:23 PM

Agreed Mike70....my sentiments exactly.

I have no want to murder other people...I'd die myself before taking another life.

Tricky

14-Nov-2008, 06:38 PM

Agreed Mike70....my sentiments exactly.

I have no want to murder other people...I'd die myself before taking another life.

would you fight if (hypothetically) we were invaded by another nation?

Mike70

14-Nov-2008, 08:23 PM

would you fight if (hypothetically) we were invaded by another nation?

even though you asked symph, i'll stick my 4 cents in here. hopefully any even semi-reasonable person would be prepared to fight in case of an invasion. i certainly would.

my major bone of contention is a peacetime draft or a draft that serves only to feed people to wars like iraq or vietnam. in the case of something really dire, like say WWII, i'd be totally in favor of a draft. the free existence of the UK and by extension, the USA and Canada, was on the line then and as such, it would the duty of every citizen to answer the call.

Exatreides

14-Nov-2008, 09:09 PM

Publius

14-Nov-2008, 09:22 PM

I just hate the fact that I'm serving in a military organization that I could very possibly be killed in. I didn't spend a week throwing sandbags to stop Ike for my own health.

And people bitch and moan about the mere possibility that they might have to go plant some f'ing trees one weekend a year.

You chose to serve, as did I. That's great. All those other lazy young people out there should desire to serve their community or nation in some way too. But if they don't have that desire, should they be forced? I say no, because that takes all the virtue out of public service.

Exatreides

14-Nov-2008, 09:54 PM

To each their own opinion, I disagree personally. But I can see how you think that.

Publius

14-Nov-2008, 10:05 PM

But I can see how you think that.

Same here. Universal military service back in the day did have its advantages. One was exposing people to all kinds of people they wouldn't normally voluntarily associate with. City boys got to know farm boys, and vice versa. Blacks worked alongside whites, and vice versa. The military is still one of the most ethnically and socially integrated institutions in the U.S.

Mike70

15-Nov-2008, 01:15 AM

Same here. Universal military service back in the day did have its advantages. One was exposing people to all kinds of people they wouldn't normally voluntarily associate with. City boys got to know farm boys, and vice versa. Blacks worked alongside whites, and vice versa. The military is still one of the most ethnically and socially integrated institutions in the U.S.

great point. when i went into the army i had had very little contact (in fact almost zero) with non-whites. my ideas about other races came from tv and movies, i hate to admit that but it was true. 3 years later when i got out of the army all of those previous notions had been destroyed by living with, working with and becoming friends with people of all different racial and social backgrounds.

but i am still with publius on the idea of compulsory service. as i said before, serving the nation or even your local community is something you take upon yourself. if it is forced upon you it isn't service anymore, it's more like servitude.

DubiousComforts

15-Nov-2008, 02:17 PM

The military is still one of the most ethnically and socially integrated institutions in the U.S.
Unless you're a homosexual wishing to serve your country.

SymphonicX

15-Nov-2008, 02:22 PM

This thread makes me so ****ing angry that I'm leaving this as my last post in it.

DubiousComforts

15-Nov-2008, 02:28 PM

This thread makes me so ****ing angry that I'm leaving this as my last post in it.
It's a good thing there is no compulsory service because you might kill somebody.

SymphonicX

15-Nov-2008, 04:52 PM

would you fight if (hypothetically) we were invaded by another nation?

Good question. And one I still don't have an answer for. Maybe I'd fight politically ie not carrying a gun and murdering people.

It's a good thing there is no compulsory service because you might kill somebody.

I'd kill myself before that....

Unless my girlfriend was in danger....