Alternative hideouts

[Philly_SWAT]

I dont think I have ever seen this discussed here, so here goes. Dont you think it would have been smart in Dawn to have several alternative hideouts in the mall? Not necesarily big hideouts with Tvs and beds, just emergency hideouts. As smart as Peter seemed to be, it seems like he may have thought, "what if one of us turns, and then remembers to break down the balsa wood wall we put up?"

Even if that is giving too much credit for seeing in the future, at the least, what if zombies and/or raiders were to break in the mall, and werent stupid enough to announce thier intentions over the radio and you were in no position to get to the hideout without being seen? An alternative hiding place would seem to be in order. It is not like they had jobs to go to, they had plenty of time to set up other safe areas throughout the mall.

And also, why not have another living area set up in the mall somewhere? Why stay in the cramped hideout all the time when in an empty mall? They could have set up a nicer, more spacious living area in any one of the stores, and then they wouldnt have to climb up and down that rope ladder every day. And as Fran got more pregnant, it wouldnt be practical for her to do so all the time...so what she just had to stay in those two little rooms?

Also, say they had set up a nice living area in JC Penney's. If raiders started to break in, they could go to the regular hideout, and the fact that a living area had been set up in a store would only add to the illusion that there was no secret hideout somewhere, it would look like they were living in Penneys and must have left the mall. In fact, they could have set up house in one of the little stores...the chain gates would add extra protection in addition to any wall they might build. They could have easily taken the signs down from the store and just made it look vacant. Doubtful a raider would waste time and energy to get into a fotified abandoned store, especially with zeds around.

[dracenstein]

Easy access to the roof/helicopter?

[Philly_SWAT]

Easy access to the roof/helicopter?

Presumably they dont need access to the chopper at all times. But I am not suggesting that they abondon the hideout, and/or never create it in the first place, so let me clarify. The hideout was a good idea, in a perfect location. Boarding up the entrance was incredibly smart. It is something that more than likely would never be discovered. The bikers didnt find it, and the only reason the zeds did is because "Flyboy zombie" had a memory that it was there. What I am saying is, why actually decide to live there when it wasnt necesary? Of course, when they first arrived at the mall, that was the safest and only choice of a place to stay. But once they had baricaded the doors and killed all the zombies inside, there was no reason to keep climbing that rope ladder every day to get to the hideout. They could have totally rearranged an area in a big store (Pennys for example) and made a huge living room area, separate sleeping areas, etc. It would have been much more comfotable, and they would have enjoyed easier access to the goods in the mall without having to lug them up the steel ladder. If a break in started to occur, and they did have alarms set on all the doors, then go to the hideout.

[MaximusIncredulous]

Maybe it was psychological. Maybe they felt exposed sleeping elsewhere in the mall. To be honest with you, even with alarms, I wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping in a more exposed area of the mall with all those things constantly pawing the doors. That could be another reason they stayed where they did. There was too much noise from the zeds outside.

[lullubelle]

Maybe it was psychological. Maybe they felt exposed sleeping elsewhere in the mall. To be honest with you, even with alarms, I wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping in a more exposed area of the mall with all those things constantly pawing the doors. That could be another reason they stayed where they did. There was too much noise from the zeds outside.

I'm with you, I dont think I would of stayed in one of stores no matter how fortified it was, maybe thats why Peter and the others stayed in the hideout they created, out of sight, if Flyboy would not have gotten cocky at the end, they could have just gone back up there and stay long enough to get there heads together as no one knew where they actually were at, they could have left the z's and the raiders duke it out, they had supplies, ammo and a way out, the could have just hold up there for a while until everything calmed down. Dumb Flyboy :D :D :D

[Philly_SWAT]

Maybe it was psychological. Maybe they felt exposed sleeping elsewhere in the mall. To be honest with you, even with alarms, I wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping in a more exposed area of the mall with all those things constantly pawing the doors. That could be another reason they stayed where they did. There was too much noise from the zeds outside.
Yes it would be weird to sleep in such a large area like Pennys. But they could have fortified an area in Pennys, such as the office area, that would seem more secure and less exposed. I doubt they would have heard the zeds much on the 2nd floor.

I'm with you, I dont think I would of stayed in one of stores no matter how fortified it was, maybe thats why Peter and the others stayed in the hideout they created, out of sight, if Flyboy would not have gotten cocky at the end, they could have just gone back up there and stay long enough to get there heads together as no one knew where they actually were at, they could have left the z's and the raiders duke it out, they had supplies, ammo and a way out, the could have just hold up there for a while until everything calmed down. Dumb Flyboy :D :D :D
Yes that was very dumb of Flyboy, no doubt. He would have been toast acting like that no matter where there hideout was. But it still seems like they should have made some other fotified areas somewhere. I mean, what were they doing all day long? You can only play so much raquetball against the wall before it is very boring, and the video games that existed back then got pretty boring after a while too.

[Slain]

There's probably a million places that would be better suited for riding out a zombie outbreak than a shopping mall. I think everybody except Fran had a death wish going, and they could've cared less about long term survival. If they had chosen to hold up in a big train depot or an industrial/warehouse district we would've gotten a movie more like Red Dawn or Diehard. To bad Romero didn't contrast the Peter's group at the mall with a second group hiding in another building nearby that were more into survival.

[sandrock74]

I would NEVER have slept in any of the stores! I could only sleep comfortable in the loft.

[Bub666]

Maybe it was psychological. Maybe they felt exposed sleeping elsewhere in the mall. To be honest with you, even with alarms, I wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping in a more exposed area of the mall with all those things constantly pawing the doors. That could be another reason they stayed where they did. There was too much noise from the zeds outside.

I agree.I never would have been able to sleep anywhere else,with all those zombies outside.

[MaximusIncredulous]

I doubt they would have heard the zeds much on the 2nd floor.

I'm not sure about that. In that scene in Dawn, you see that shot of the mall from the second floor and can hear the zeds outside trying to get in. Many of those zeds at the door would be wearing rings which would create noticeable noise when striking glass, especially at night when human activity has winded down and people are trying to get some sleep. This would go on every single night. Maybe some people would get used to it sleeping at Penny's. Maybe not.

[sandrock74]

Upon thinking more about this, I know the constant noise from the ghouls outside would grate on my nerves. Thats another reason I would not sleep in one of the stores.
Also, remember the janitor zombie that surprised Roger? I would always be paranoid about there being another zombie or two wandering around inside the mall somewhere. One that got overlooked during the culling. I would certainly never go around the mall unarmed.
I think the loft was just accepted as the most secure area of the mall. The area where everyone could relax and let their guard down. I know I would feel that way. Would you really want to walk around in the mall, alone, especially at night, with the constant sounds of the ghouls outside wanting in? Who could feel "safe" in that kind of environment? At least up in the loft, its isolated and quiet.
Just my thoughts...

[Philly_SWAT]

I'm not sure about that. In that scene in Dawn, you see that shot of the mall from the second floor and can hear the zeds outside trying to get in. Many of those zeds at the door would be wearing rings which would create noticeable noise when striking glass, especially at night when human activity has winded down and people are trying to get some sleep. This would go on every single night. Maybe some people would get used to it sleeping at Penny's. Maybe not.
Yes, they could hear the zeds knocking on the glass when they were standing against the rails outside Pennys. But that was with no other noise in the mall. Usually a mall is filled with people walking, talking, cell phones ringing, the organ guy playing the organ, etc. If that happened in your house, it would be a noist racket. In the mall, you dont think of it much, it is normal....."mall background sounds." With none of those sounds, you could pick up on the only sound occuring in the mall, the sound of the zeds kncoking against the glass. However, once you go inside a store in the mall, you can only hear the noise from just outside the store, not from the whole mall. The walls absorb/block out the sound, and if the doors were closed you wouldnt hear anything except the louded of noises from within the mall proper. I dont think you would hear the zeds.


Upon thinking more about this, I know the constant noise from the ghouls outside would grate on my nerves. Thats another reason I would not sleep in one of the stores.
Also, remember the janitor zombie that surprised Roger? I would always be paranoid about there being another zombie or two wandering around inside the mall somewhere. One that got overlooked during the culling. I would certainly never go around the mall unarmed.
I think the loft was just accepted as the most secure area of the mall. The area where everyone could relax and let their guard down. I know I would feel that way. Would you really want to walk around in the mall, alone, especially at night, with the constant sounds of the ghouls outside wanting in? Who could feel "safe" in that kind of environment? At least up in the loft, its isolated and quiet.
Just my thoughts...
For sure the loft was the most secure location. However, not the most convient with having to climb up and down the steel ladder. How often in life do all of us sacrifice something, security or otherwise, for convience?
Yes, I had thought about the idea of an overlooked zombie in the mall. But remember, the janitor zombie was before they had cleared out the mall. And again, they didnt have jobs or school to go to, so for a least a few days if not a few weeks it seems like it would have been a good idea to re-check for zeds every day, even if you were pretty sure there werent any. Come up with a reasonable system to make sure you didnt miss any, then you could rest assured more easily all the time.

[Thorn]

I would think an alternate living set up would work out in a number of ways. First and foremost acting as what we in internet security refer to as a honey pot. A fake item/target for people to go after that appears to have value but really doesn't. That way as has been said if the bikers/looters get in they go for it. Leave cash, supplies, and some other assorted gear there. Perhaps it would buy you time if nothing else or at least draw them to one area. Second it would provide change of scenery, being cooped up in one place with four walls closing in on you can take it's toll, and having the ability to mix it up a bit is a good thing. Thirdly the space that it would provide. Not everyone always gets along, some of us need space. Having some other "bases of operation" outside of the loft could serve that purpose.

Plus honestly duel points of failure are superior to single any day. It is why NASA always does everything in twos, if one rover dies there is another there and the whole mission is not a complete loss.

My big issue with the loft/fort was how poorly constructed the wall was and how unsecured the stairway was. YES they figured it would work, and maybe they thought they might need to use it in a pinch. But as you watch it come down it looks like it was made of cardboard or shirt boxes. Not sheet rock. Not that sheet rock WILL save you but I mean COME ON. If a wall stands between me and death, that wall is going to be more secure than that and I am going to have a back up to it.

Molotov cocktails? Boiling oil? Barricade? Tiger spikes? Posters pointing out the hazards of raw and red meat? ANYTHING other than air and opportunity.

[Philly_SWAT]

I would think an alternate living set up would work out in a number of ways. First and foremost acting as what we in internet security refer to as a honey pot. A fake item/target for people to go after that appears to have value but really doesn't. That way as has been said if the bikers/looters get in they go for it. Leave cash, supplies, and some other assorted gear there. Perhaps it would buy you time if nothing else or at least draw them to one area. Second it would provide change of scenery, being cooped up in one place with four walls closing in on you can take it's toll, and having the ability to mix it up a bit is a good thing. Thirdly the space that it would provide. Not everyone always gets along, some of us need space. Having some other "bases of operation" outside of the loft could serve that purpose.I couldnt have said it better myself! "Honey pot", I like that.


Plus honestly duel points of failure are superior to single any day. It is why NASA always does everything in twos, if one rover dies there is another there and the whole mission is not a complete loss..
Good point. This is what I was trying to say, although you said it better!


My big issue with the loft/fort was how poorly constructed the wall was and how unsecured the stairway was. YES they figured it would work, and maybe they thought they might need to use it in a pinch. But as you watch it come down it looks like it was made of cardboard or shirt boxes. Not sheet rock. Not that sheet rock WILL save you but I mean COME ON. If a wall stands between me and death, that wall is going to be more secure than that and I am going to have a back up to it.
Yes I have discussed this before. There had to be a wide variety of materials in the mall to make that wall, why use the thinnest material they could find? I figured that even if for some reason that was the thickest material for sale in a store, they could have torn down an existing wall somewhere, used material other than wood, or at the very least use more two by fours as support.


Molotov cocktails? Boiling oil? Barricade? Tiger spikes? Posters pointing out the hazards of raw and red meat? ANYTHING other than air and opportunity.Hazards of raw and red meat? LMAO!