That...chopper up there might give us away

[Philly_SWAT]

Something I never thought about before, or saw mentioned before....

In the interest of over-dissecting, I thought of this the other day. Peter was a pretty sharp guy. He was on the ball. Not slow to respond to problems, and always having a plan (examples: he could perform an abortion, shot Wooley, came up with plan to distract zombies downstairs, board up the stairwell, dont trust the bikers on the radio, etc.) He mentions early on that he was worried that the presence of the helicopter on the roof might alert others to their presence. He even mentions "looters" seeing it as a concern.

Presumably, they dont take the chopper out on joyrides. The only two times we ever see them use it after reaching the mall is when they were blocking the doors, and when Stephen was teaching Fran how to fly. There was probably more than one lesson, but we only see one.

Since there were there several months, and we know Peter went to the roof top (to play self raquetball), dont you think he would have taken some effort to hide it from view? Even just covering it with some plain tarps would be better than nothing, but I am sure that somewhere in the mall, perhaps the gun store, there would have been camo tarps somewhere.

This could have kept the bikers from seeing it, and they may not have entered the mall, and therefore saving Flyboys life.

[3pidemiC]

I'm sure they could have found enough white fabric to throw it over it.

[Slain]

The bikers came on the scene as Stephan was giving Fran a flying lesson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE0tVo-D_4Q

While I suppose it's possible they could've to build encloser around the helicopter that made it looked like a HVAC unit from a distance, the presence of all the zombies around the mall would've been a clear indication that living people were inside the place.

[capncnut]

The bikers came on the scene as Stephan was giving Fran a flying lesson.

While I suppose it's possible they could've to build encloser around the helicopter that made it looked like a HVAC unit from a distance, the presence of all the zombies around the mall would've been a clear indication that living people were inside the place.
Not to mention the trucks blocking all the entrances off. Good points made there, Slain.

[EvilNed]

Yeah, it was more than the chopper. Besides, if the chopper had been standing still, and with no trucks at the entrances, I doubt the bikers would have thought much about it. But they'd probably raid the place all the same.

[Philly_SWAT]

The bikers came on the scene as Stephan was giving Fran a flying lesson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE0tVo-D_4Q

While I suppose it's possible they could've to build encloser around the helicopter that made it looked like a HVAC unit from a distance, the presence of all the zombies around the mall would've been a clear indication that living people were inside the place.


Yeah, it was more than the chopper. Besides, if the chopper had been standing still, and with no trucks at the entrances, I doubt the bikers would have thought much about it. But they'd probably raid the place all the same.

Good points. However, it was pure coincidence that Fran was getting a lesson when the bikers saw the chopper. I still say it would have fit with the Peter character that he would have wanted to hide the chopper in some way, especially since he specifically mentioned he was worried about it.

[capncnut]

Good points. However, it was pure coincidence that Fran was getting a lesson when the bikers saw the chopper. I still say it would have fit with the Peter character that he would have wanted to hide the chopper in some way, especially since he specifically mentioned he was worried about it.
Well I do believe Peter's primary concerns was hassle from the police or the military. Hence Roger's response: "What are they gonna do? Land another pilot to fly it out. They're not gonna mess with a little bird like that, they got enough on their hands."

As for the bikers, I agree with Ned - they would've robbed the place anyway - even without spotting the chopper or evidence of patch-up activity around the mall. Flyboy would still've been greedy enough to get himself killed regardless.

[bassman]

The bikers would've entered the mall regardless. As for not covering up the chopper.....maybe he didn't to so that if someone GOOD were to come around, they could help them?

[sandrock74]

I think covering the copter would've been a waste of time. Even if they had figured something out, they would've had to waste time undoing the tarps (or whatever) to fly it out of there. Since the zombies learned how to stand in line and climb ladders, time to waste wasn't an option.

Besides, forget about the looters. What if the mall had caught fire? They would have to high-tail it out of there in a hurry. Who would want to screw around with taking apart a facade first? Or what if the military showed up and began opening fire BEFORE even getting into the mall? They would need to evac in a hurry!

I always just figured that Peter figured that Roger was right. Once they got everything situated inside and around the mall, he figured "who cares" about the copter. The trucks blocking the doors and the sheer number of zombies surrounding the mall was a pretty good indication that the mall was occupied. The helicopter was useless to anyone who couldn't fly it. The bikers never gave two ****s about it. Besides, Peter had seen to it that the (presumably) only entrace up to the roof was well hidden.

Just my thoughts on it. :)

[bassman]

Here's an idea that wouldn't have slowed them down and still covered up the helicopter. Build a room around it. They had the utilities to build the wall in the hallway, so I don't see why they couldn't build a garage type deal with no roof. There's your cover for the helicopter and it would be simple to get to in a hurry.

[sandrock74]

Here's an idea that wouldn't have slowed them down and still covered up the helicopter. Build a room around it. They had the utilities to build the wall in the hallway, so I don't see why they couldn't build a garage type deal with no roof. There's your cover for the helicopter and it would be simple to get to in a hurry.

I don't know if that would be a good idea for the propellers. If they even knick anything, they can be ruined. Technically, they should have strapped the blades down, like John did in Day.
Besides that, they could be clearly seen erecting (I said erect...lol) stuff on the roof. The zombies could get further aggitated by the noise and anyone passing by would immediately know what was going on.

[bassman]

Well it wouldn't have to be snug up against the chopper. Just four walls around it. True, someone could see them making it, but if they had all that time to block the doors with the trucks, play tennis, etc....then they could probably put up four walls without someone seeing.

[MaximusIncredulous]

Practically speaking, keeping the chopper uncovered was the best option in view of a quick start up and escape. The outline of the chopper would still be evident and indicative of a human presence in addition to the trucks blocking the entrances. Walls erected around the chopper would be at risk of weather knocking one or more of the walls down, potentially damaging the chopper. Also the issue of weight would have to be kept in mind. The Ranger would have a weight of around 2,000 lbs with partial fuel and supplies loaded. Add the weight of stiff walls and supports and there could be the remote chance of roof collapse.

[SRP76]

I don't think Peter cared, once the mall was "secure". It really wouldn't have made a difference.

I would have been more concerned about using some of those 5 months or so to go get more fuel for the thing. They were running low when they got there, and that was before the entrance-blocking escapade and all of Fran's lessons.

[3pidemiC]

That would have been cool to see. I think that if GAR included more characters in the script at the mall, then we may have actually seen a scenario of them attempting to get more fuel or something.

[bassman]

That would have been cool to see. I think that if GAR included more characters in the script at the mall, then we may have actually seen a scenario of them attempting to get more fuel or something.

I think if he added more characters it would have taken away from the story. Kind of like the characters in the remake. Way too many people and you don't care about them. Romero keeping it to four people made a much stronger connection with the audience.

As for the fuel....there had to be gas stations around the mall. Maybe they could have found some that was close? And isn't there a garage in the mall parking lot? There could've been fuel in there. But I don't know what kind of fuel helicopters take. Is it diesel or just regular unleaded?:rockbrow:

[Thorn]

I agree, the bikers would likely have looted the place anyway. Were they "more irritated" by the fact the people inside were not cooperating? Sure they were but they were not going to walk away from a goldmine either way.

In the end if the survivors had cut and run when the going looked bad things would have been much different, it is hard. It had become a safe haven. Their home, but you could start again. Your life is more important than any of that, and they were severely out numbered.

Sometimes fighting against seemingly insurmountable odds is viewed as heroism. What the survivors did in this case, that is not heroism as far as I am concerned it was either "greed" or over confidence.

Sometimes a strategic retreat is a viable option.

[sandrock74]

I think if he added more characters it would have taken away from the story. Kind of like the characters in the remake. Way too many people and you don't care about them. Romero keeping it to four people made a much stronger connection with the audience.

As for the fuel....there had to be gas stations around the mall. Maybe they could have found some that was close? And isn't there a garage in the mall parking lot? There could've been fuel in there. But I don't know what kind of fuel helicopters take. Is it diesel or just regular unleaded?:rockbrow:

I've asked that before in another thread. I asked why they just didn't get gas at the truck rental place? Those places always have gas pumps. Just close the gates, blow away any zombies that were there (didn't seem to be many) and secure the truck place. It could have served as a fall back point AND provided them with some much needed fuel.
Of course, maybe Roger's getting bitten derailed any possible thoughts of that.

[Thorn]

I was not sure at first if the helicopter would accept normal fuel or even diesel fuel either bassman. So I did a bit of looking around found some conflicting information, and one gem maybe someone in the know can clarify for us...



Jet-powered (turbine) helicopters use a kerosene based fuel . . .

US Spec is JP-8
UK Spec is F-34/F-35 (AvTur)
Civ Spec is Jet A-1

Piston-engined helictopers use AvGas (100LL).

For what it's worth . . . Although you might think that jet fuel needs to be very refined and high grade, in reality it's not! Of course, it's highly controlled to ensure there's no contaminants in it but otherwise, it's pretty average stuff. In fact, a jet turbine engine will run on almost anything! Jet fuel is obviously preferred, but you can use normal petrol (gasoline), parrafin (kerosene) or diesel. These are usually listed as "emergency" fuels in most (military) aircraft handbooks and after the engine has been run on the stuff for a period (say, 25 hours) then the engine will probably need to be replaced but this is just for safety reasons.

Is all that true?

[sandrock74]

I was not sure at first if the helicopter would accept normal fuel or even diesel fuel either bassman. So I did a bit of looking around found some conflicting information, and one gem maybe someone in the know can clarify for us...



Is all that true?

If that is true, then my long held idea of raiding the truck place for fuel is valid. Yay me!

[MaximusIncredulous]

More on aviation fuel:

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/fuel/Tech21.htm

[SymphonicX]

Put tarps on the chopper? I'd hate to have to unravel that stuff when being pursued by the undead.

Nah I think Peter was spot on and they needed to keep the chopper easy to access in case of the need to escape...and the raiders would've broken in anyway...

[jim102016]

If they were sitting on anything other than a highly desired and fully-stocked shopping mall in the middle of a nation-wide crisis.....maybe I'd be concerned about the helicopter. Those looters were probably drawn in by the noise, that model JetRanger is louder than ****. Or perhaps the signs for miles around advertising the Monroeville Mall. The raiders needed supplies and a reason to keep living. The mall was the answer.

Damn shame their wasn't a full service helipad on top of the mall as some big buildings in the cities have.

As far as fuel goes, you're not going to be able to put diesel or gas into that helicopter. Maybe today they have alternate fuels, but not back then.

[sandrock74]

If they were sitting on anything other than a highly desired and fully-stocked shopping mall in the middle of a nation-wide crisis.....maybe I'd be concerned about the helicopter. Those looters were probably drawn in by the noise, that model JetRanger is louder than ****. Or perhaps the signs for miles around advertising the Monroeville Mall. The raiders needed supplies and a reason to keep living. The mall was the answer.

Damn shame their wasn't a full service helipad on top of the mall as some big buildings in the cities have.

As far as fuel goes, you're not going to be able to put diesel or gas into that helicopter. Maybe today they have alternate fuels, but not back then.

You raised a good point. I wonder why the Monroeville Mall had a helipad anyway? I've heard that some buildings had them for purposes of medical emergency, but would that be true of a mall?? Maybe in a big city, but in the suburbs?

[Philly_SWAT]

Here's an idea that wouldn't have slowed them down and still covered up the helicopter. Build a room around it. They had the utilities to build the wall in the hallway, so I don't see why they couldn't build a garage type deal with no roof. There's your cover for the helicopter and it would be simple to get to in a hurry.

Good idea. Fixes the problems others have mentioned.


I don't know if that would be a good idea for the propellers. If they even knick anything, they can be ruined. Technically, they should have strapped the blades down, like John did in Day.
Besides that, they could be clearly seen erecting (I said erect...lol) stuff on the roof. The zombies could get further aggitated by the noise and anyone passing by would immediately know what was going on.
If they made the walls far enough away from the blades, there would be nothing to nick. I dont think there were any casual passerbys that would notice anything. And those zombies seemed about as aggitated as you can get, beating on the mall doors for months. I doubt the distance sound of hammers or skill saws would have aggitated them any further.

[sandrock74]

If they made the walls far enough away from the blades, there would be nothing to nick. I dont think there were any casual passerbys that would notice anything. And those zombies seemed about as aggitated as you can get, beating on the mall doors for months. I doubt the distance sound of hammers or skill saws would have aggitated them any further.

I guess its just me, but it seems like trying to construct stuff like fake walls and such is too much of a waste of time. I don't think most people would have given a second thought to the helicopter on the roof of the mall. I've seen helicopters on buildings and never thought twice about it. I can't fly it, I don't know any pilots, so who cares?
Their time would have been much better spent securing a fall back area (or two), like the grocery store across the mall parking lot or the truck rental place. Even better fortifiying the malls defences (as we have talked about in other threads) would have been time better spent. Or finding more fuel!
Just my thoughts.

[punkmisfitsguy]

remember fellas! it's only a movie!

[bassman]

remember fellas! it's only a movie!

You don't visit this place often, do you?

:lol:

[SRP76]

Well, the Bible's just a book, and look how much attention that thing gets.

[punkmisfitsguy]

You don't visit this place often, do you?

:lol:


I haven't been on in 2 years. But prior to that I was on the forum since the users swarmed in from the old GAR forums. This was back in 1999 or so haha.

[Mike70]

i'd think you'd want to put something up over the helicopter to keep from the weather if nothing else. aside from trying to hide it, just putting it inside a shed to keep rain, snow, etc. off it would be a good idea.

probably could've found something you could build and move easily in any sears at that time.

[Yojimbo]

remember fellas! it's only a movie!

You must be joking, dude.

Welcome (back) to the boards, all the same. :)

[sandrock74]

Why didn't they just totally disassemble it, piece by piece and take it down into the mall and reassemble it? Then nobody would know they were there, except for the mass of zombies surrounding the mall and the truscks at all the doors...

[bassman]

Why didn't they just totally disassemble it, piece by piece and take it down into the mall and reassemble it? Then nobody would know they were there, except for the mass of zombies surrounding the mall and the truscks at all the doors...

http://www.simplenomics.com/wp-images/smartass.jpg

[SRP76]

http://www.simplenomics.com/wp-images/smartass.jpg

You may have spoken too soon. If we ignore the hurdles of making the film itself, that could have worked.

The mall had the huge skylight (which the heroes were looking down into the mall through). If you remove that, you can simply land the helicopter through the roof, into the mall itself. Then when you take off, the bird just rises straight up out of the mall.

Of course, the mall would get pretty messy when it rains, with no cover.

[Philly_SWAT]

Put tarps on the chopper? I'd hate to have to unravel that stuff when being pursued by the undead.

Nah I think Peter was spot on and they needed to keep the chopper easy to access in case of the need to escape...and the raiders would've broken in anyway...

Many people have expressed similiar concerns. However, I say that you would not be "pursued by the undead" on the roof top. But, you say, there were zombies on the roof at the end of the movie! Yes, but that was an extraordinary circumstance. Roger was already dead, and Flyboy was dead (both shot after turning by Peter himself). Peter was in a bad place mentally, considering suicide. He changed his mind at the last second, and fought his way to the ladder. Barring that extreme set of conditions, under other conditions they could have calmly climbed the ladder, tipped over the ladder once they were up (so zeds couldnt follow), or even if they didnt tip the ladder, calmly shoot the zeds as they came up one at a time (one person would be all you would need for this task, the other (or others, if Flyboy had lived) could slowly and carefully undo the tarp.

As carefully as planning could have, or should have, been, there would be no way to think "hmmm...what if Flyboy gets bitten, leads other zeds to the hideout, I have to shoot him, then I would want to commit suicide...if that happens then it would be a bad idea to cover the chopper. Plus, if I decide at the last moment to chance my mind, I may leave the ladder untipped, and then I will be persued by the undead as I try to undo the chopper covering". Obviously this is a smart ass comment, but it shows that totally unforseen circumstances happened at the end of the movie, circumstances which would NOT dictate leaving the chopper uncovered.

Also, even if true that the raiders would have broken in anyway, that is irrelevant to whether or not they should have tried to hide the chopper. If Flyboy had acted smarter and not started "a war", the bikers may have had no idea anyone was there, and wouldnt have bothered to look. It was pure coincidence that they saw Fran getting flying lessons. If the bikers had come to the mall at a slightly different time when the lesson was not in session, they wouldnt have known the chopper was there if it was hidden. If they then broke in, and found no one inside, they would assume that whoever blocked the doors either died, or left, and wouldnt look for a hideout.

[sandrock74]

Many people have expressed similiar concerns. However, I say that you would not be "pursued by the undead" on the roof top. But, you say, there were zombies on the roof at the end of the movie! Yes, but that was an extraordinary circumstance. Roger was already dead, and Flyboy was dead (both shot after turning by Peter himself). Peter was in a bad place mentally, considering suicide. He changed his mind at the last second, and fought his way to the ladder. Barring that extreme set of conditions, under other conditions they could have calmly climbed the ladder, tipped over the ladder once they were up (so zeds couldnt follow), or even if they didnt tip the ladder, calmly shoot the zeds as they came up one at a time (one person would be all you would need for this task, the other (or others, if Flyboy had lived) could slowly and carefully undo the tarp.

As carefully as planning could have, or should have, been, there would be no way to think "hmmm...what if Flyboy gets bitten, leads other zeds to the hideout, I have to shoot him, then I would want to commit suicide...if that happens then it would be a bad idea to cover the chopper. Plus, if I decide at the last moment to chance my mind, I may leave the ladder untipped, and then I will be persued by the undead as I try to undo the chopper covering". Obviously this is a smart ass comment, but it shows that totally unforseen circumstances happened at the end of the movie, circumstances which would NOT dictate leaving the chopper uncovered.

Also, even if true that the raiders would have broken in anyway, that is irrelevant to whether or not they should have tried to hide the chopper. If Flyboy had acted smarter and not started "a war", the bikers may have had no idea anyone was there, and wouldnt have bothered to look. It was pure coincidence that they saw Fran getting flying lessons. If the bikers had come to the mall at a slightly different time when the lesson was not in session, they wouldnt have known the chopper was there if it was hidden. If they then broke in, and found no one inside, they would assume that whoever blocked the doors either died, or left, and wouldnt look for a hideout.

One thing Philly, what if there was another, all together different reason they had to leave in a hurry? Like in the event of a fire that was ravaging thru the mall? Or a bad earthquake (I know that probably isn't a big concern in Monroeville, but just humor me)? I just think that bothering to hide the copter was too much of a time waster over all.

[MaximusIncredulous]

One thing Philly, what if there was another, all together different reason they had to leave in a hurry? Like in the event of a fire that was ravaging thru the mall? Or a bad earthquake (I know that probably isn't a big concern in Monroeville, but just humor me)? I just think that bothering to hide the copter was too much of a time waster over all.

Exactly. Hell, with all that wasted effort they would've been better off making improvised grenades and booby traps if they're so concerned about being "discovered".

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
These are the same people who spent all that time building a fake wall that an elderly woman with Polio could have knocked down. Let's not read too much into their decision-making processes. Start to finish, everything the Mall Squad did was FUBAR'd or at the very least overly convoluted.

The helicopter being hidden wouldn'tve helped, as many others have pointed out. The break-in was foreordained, if not the bikers then some other band of looters eventually.

Just my opinion..

[Philly_SWAT]

One thing Philly, what if there was another, all together different reason they had to leave in a hurry? Like in the event of a fire that was ravaging thru the mall? Or a bad earthquake (I know that probably isn't a big concern in Monroeville, but just humor me)? I just think that bothering to hide the copter was too much of a time waster over all.

I understand what you are saying, however, I dont see how much extra time at all would be needed to yank off a couple of tarps, or just build some walls around it, as others have mentioned.


Exactly. Hell, with all that wasted effort they would've been better off making improvised grenades and booby traps if they're so concerned about being "discovered".
You are correct, they should have spent more time on back up plans, and other non-firearm weapons.


Well,
These are the same people who spent all that time building a fake wall that an elderly woman with Polio could have knocked down. Let's not read too much into their decision-making processes. Start to finish, everything the Mall Squad did was FUBAR'd or at the very least overly convoluted.

The helicopter being hidden wouldn'tve helped, as many others have pointed out. The break-in was foreordained, if not the bikers then some other band of looters eventually.

Just my opinion..
Two points here...

One, you say everything they did was "overly convoluted". First, I think that something is either convoluted or not, it cant be overly or underly convoluted. Second, most web definitions of the word convoluted yield something similar to this : highly complex or intricate and occasionally devious. I dont think that is what you meant to say :)

And Two, yeah the break in was "foreordained", by the script!

[bigmonkey2582]

I don't think building a wall is a good idea, especially when giving lessons, space needed to land is quite important.