Another Zombie Apocalypse What If?

[Wyldwraith]

Ok,
It's been a week or longer without one of these, and we can't have that. I recently re-watched all the GAR movies over the holidays, and it got me to thinking about the one nagging element that's generally missing. Namely, the eventuality of a group larger than 4-6 people, all of whom are reasonably intelligent/stable, and realize they'll die if they don't cut the BS and do their best to work together.

How do each of you think it would go if say...a dozen healthy, stable and non-stupid people got together towards the beginning of the outbreak (Say the point by which most intelligent people have included that yes, DEAD PEOPLE are shambling about chewing on the living, but before the vast majority of the population have been consumed and all government/police/military efforts to contain the outbreak have completely failed).

Do you think such a hypothetical group would be more likely to try to escape to somewhere or perceived safety, hunker down and fortify a securable structure, or what?

Yes, I know this has been done before, but people come up with new/novel ideas all the time. What the hell, it's something to talk about besides which RE film makes you want to gouge your eyes out the fastest, or hate on Big Daddy for the zillionth time, right?

I'm of the opinion that if you could get 10-12 healthy 18-45yr olds who meet the above criteria together, especially if you had a couple of military deserters and a cop or two, that said group could become a reasonably formidable/self-reliant band of nomads (NOT RAIDERS). I'm of the school of thought that believes stopping anywhere for longer than 24hrs will lead to getting surrounded/besieged/exhausted/devoured. There's a lot of wide open/low population ground in the USA. If said group stuck to migrating between small towns, and bunking down in the middle of BFE they might be able to outlast the zombies.

Thoughts? I've given it more thought than the above outline, but don't want to write a six page thesis atm. ;)

[Mike70]

sorry if this goes off on a tangent but:

the first problem might be could 12 or so people just leave their past lives behind and forget all that they knew and loved in an instant? i think most folks would have a problem with this. a lot of the hard ass types on the forum will, obviously, disagree here and insist that they could for the sake of survival but i am dubious as all hell. could you simply walk away not knowing what happened to your wife/husband, parents, and most importantly your children? frankly, the person who could do that wouldn't be anyone i'd want to spend time with let alone try and survive with.

second the odds of 12 people (esp. people who might not have known each other) agreeing together about anything could be slim. unless there was a strong personality in the group (not a guarantee at all) that could drive things through force of will, there could be more than a few disagreements.

staying on the move, even out in bfe where i live, requires planning and most importantly scouting. i doubt that most cops and even most military types know the first thing about how to scout a location out. what about all the other folks with same ideas about heading out into the country?

[blind2d]

It's hard for people to work together, because everyone has different ideas about what they want out of life. ...with an epitaph on it, that nobody gonna bother to read.
Anyway, too many people equates too many different viewpoints. The apocalypse is gonna be awful.

[Philly_SWAT]

In the original three movies, all of the people have been thrown together against their will. Not saying that they were forced at gunpoint, but everyone in Night just happened to find the farmhouse; Peter, Flyboy and Fran did not know each other at all; and in Day, scientists, civilians and military were thrown together in a bunker that was rushed together in a matter of days. Many people in all three groups seemed reasonably intelligent, yet they could not get along. Of those three films, the 4 characters in Dawn do in fact cut out the BS as you say, and try their best to co-operate to survive.

I think the best course of action is to hunker down in a safe location, and have several escape routes/plans at the ready in case they are needed. If you are going to be overrun by zombies, it is just as likely to happen by moving around as staying put I would say. In theory, I suppose staying put could alert zombies to your presense it you werent careful, but moving into unknown areas with no recon would be just as risky.

It is rare when a group of people can ever agree on anything (ever try to decide what movie to go see with a group of friends?) much less where their lives are literally on the line. But to answer your question, I think it is possible. There are billions of people in the world, there would bound to be a few groups that would get together and co-operate, whether by accident, circumstance, or mutual trust and mutual survival.

[SRP76]

How do each of you think it would go if say...a dozen healthy, stable and non-stupid people got together towards the beginning of the outbreak

There aren't a dozen healthy, stable, non-stupid people within any 100-mile radius. That's the problem.

[Thorn]

Power struggles, disagreements, personal motives and all manner of other items would in fact get in the way. That said given time eventually a way to co-exist would be found if for not other reason than out of need of one another and self preservation.

I can tolerate a loud mouthed braggart a lot more easily if he is good with a gun and handy in a bad spot. Doesn't mean I have to like him, trust him, or hang out with him.

I think that those groups would actually do quite well in a zombie apocalypse. More people means more resources to get things done, more security while scavenging teams worked their magic away from your fortified location. Or more diverse skills to support the group.

You would just need strong leadership, and a group of people to buy into the plan.

Maturity and intelligence would play a huge role.

Again I have my plans for surviving I think about them all the time, to the point of my estrange wife questioning my sanity. So be it.

You have to have a plan, the personality, and the resources to execute your escape and survival plan. You also need to be mindful of who it is you bring on board because one bad apple can spoil the bushel or some such other clever saying.

[tkane18]

Just watch any reality show on TV and you'll find out how people get along in groups.

[AcesandEights]

Meh. Nay saying is so in fashion, but I'll have to say that a dozen people who are prepared to abide by some very specific, commonsense strictures could do well, but, as has been mentioned, a secure, strong leader and/or arrangement for shot-calling would need to be hashed out very early on.

There'd be hiccups, disagreements and issues along the way, of course.

[Thorn]

I think a lot of the people on this board would do well banded together to be honest. We all have different ideas in many cases but we have diverse backgrounds, resources, and skill sets.

Also there are only a couple of selfish jerks who would be trying to get the tv into the basement.... *looks around suspiciously*

[Philly_SWAT]

I think a lot of the people on this board would do well banded together to be honest. We all have different ideas in many cases but we have diverse backgrounds, resources, and skill sets.

Also there are only a couple of selfish jerks who would be trying to get the tv into the basement.... *looks around suspiciously*

Good point (points).

I was wondering a different question.....if there was a zombie apocalypse, the odds of ultimate survival would be low for most people. Therefore I wonder which would be the better pick to hold out with....the A-Team, or the local strip clubs B-Team?

[Thorn]

B team!

[Marie]

Also there are only a couple of selfish jerks who would be trying to get the tv into the basement.... *looks around suspiciously*

I wasnt taking it to the basement, you can't get any reception in a basement!:p

M_

[Thorn]

lol!
http://www.joblo.com/images_arrownews/TTCooper.jpg

Look at his eyes just sizing up his opportunity to make off with some loot. Dirty little troll.

[blind2d]

But the basement is the safest place! Actually, the attic's much safer... why didn't anyone think of that?

[SRP76]

I think a lot of the people on this board would do well banded together to be honest. We all have different ideas in many cases but we have diverse backgrounds, resources, and skill sets.

Also there are only a couple of selfish jerks who would be trying to get the tv into the basement.... *looks around suspiciously*

TV or no TV, we'd all die. Even in the best of cases, there's maybe 20 of us. Millions upon millions of ghouls. We're history.

[Thorn]

That is a very bleak and defeatist outlook you have there. While I can onl speak in hypothetical as clearly it has not happened and is not bloody likely to happen. I for one like to think that humanity would live on in one form or another, and that knowing my own resourcefulness that I would live a while at least through the outbreak and subsequent horror.

My biggest weakness would be my superman complex which would force me to want to save everyone that I came across, and my inability to cap people who may or may not be infected. I would have to be surrounded by people with personalities and abilities that directly complimented my own and helped keep my own nature in check for the greater good of all. Including myself.

It is the hard decisions I think I would be the worst at making, and it would be hard to stand by and let someone else make them as well so I would need to have a voice but not be the only voice.

I have given it a lot of thought.

In the end the numbers are indeed scary, and daunting but it would depend o nthe nature of the outbreak, duration, and how long the dead staid mobile. How able you were to fortify, and prepare, and in the end your success or failure would greatly depend on those around you.

Again my opinion.

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
I think a group could make it. The threat of imminent death has often been an excellent motivator to unify. Humanity does well when there's a common enemy to unite them.

I'm also not a big believer in some sort of mysterious x-factor that halts or dramatically slows zombie rotting. I think they're going to rot at about the same speed that your average unembalmed corpse does. With that being the case, combined with the many zombies who, while reanimated, suffered injuries so grievous during the attack/partial devouring that killed them that the millions and millions we often think of when contemplating zombie hordes would get trimmed down reasonably quickly.

I mean, if a zombie is missing a leg it isn't going anywhere fast. It still poses a threat to those in the immediate area, but it won't be following the horde out into the countryside as they shamble after the surviving humans who are abandoning the cities as fast as they possibly can. Then subtract all the zombies that fall in the water and get washed harmlessly away, or off cliffs etc. There will be places IMO where determined survivors could hold on until decay removes much of the threat.

Just my .02

[Thorn]

Well said. I also have to say about the whole "man not being able to survive in groups because they would turn on each other". Yes I know in some cases this is true, it would happen and has happened in other real world cases where the going gets rough. The wild west comes to mind. But families joined up with other families to form villages, others joined them to form towns, people came to those towns to trade and sell and for the protection they offered.

When things are bad you NEED other people to live it really can help you get over a lot of your hesitance to be around others. You would certainly have people taking over, people abusing power taking control by force by America is here today because we were able to squash that with laws, and deeds.

I see no reason at all to throw that out the window and assume all the sudden man would go so far the other way. Is it a different time? Certainly but life and death remain the same.

I just am not a glass is half full guy, and again I look at history to show me which way man would go. We have been around a long time. I know it is popular to say we are going to blow ourselves up, poison the planet, destroy one another. I know we have war going on all over right now and atrocities occur daily. That is not EVERY man, and it certainly does not speak to the core of man.

It represents in my opinion the worst in man and it would take hard decisions and decisive action to ensure that was not allowed to compromise our survival.

I for one have faith in us.

[SRP76]

I just am not a glass is half full guy, and again I look at history to show me which way man would go. We have been around a long time. I know it is popular to say we are going to blow ourselves up, poison the planet, destroy one another. I know we have war going on all over right now and atrocities occur daily. That is not EVERY man, and it certainly does not speak to the core of man.

It represents in my opinion the worst in man and it would take hard decisions and decisive action to ensure that was not allowed to compromise our survival.

I for one have faith in us.

How good or bad people are isn't the issue in this case. Even a handful of out-and-out saints would have no chance.

One historical incident points to this: the Alamo. What happened to them? This is the situation every living person on Earth would be facing. No matter what they try to do, there comes a point where the enemy just beats you. You don't necessarily have to do anything wrong, or even make one mistake. Sometimes, the opponent is just too powerful.

Winning the war against the dead would be like trying to catch the moon if it fell out of the sky. Impossible.

[Philly_SWAT]

I for one like to think that humanity would live on in one form or another
I think that humanity would in fact live on in one form or another. I think that human beings in a lot of ways are like cockroaches. Impossible to kill them all.

[Debbieangel]

I am 51 yrs old do I count? lol
Really tho, I am in the process of writing about this very subject that is being discussed.
I have it set in my area and I have it that my family and my whole neighborhood pulls together to survive the zombie apocalypse. I think it's a novel concept if I ever get the piece wrote out.
I am doing it like it is my 'diary' of each day and the struggles that happen to us all.
I live on a hill and there a bunch of families on the hill. I have been writing this for over a year and I really need to get back to it. lol
It is second of two stories I am writing.
I am rambling...but anyhoo...yeah I think if a group of people worked together and not everyone trying to be"chief". It would work out. Also I live in a rural area where people like to hunt so, probably not a problem getting guns.
I guess I have faith in humanity!

[MoonSylver]

How good or bad people are isn't the issue in this case. Even a handful of out-and-out saints would have no chance.

One historical incident points to this: the Alamo. What happened to them? This is the situation every living person on Earth would be facing. No matter what they try to do, there comes a point where the enemy just beats you. You don't necessarily have to do anything wrong, or even make one mistake. Sometimes, the opponent is just too powerful.

Winning the war against the dead would be like trying to catch the moon if it fell out of the sky. Impossible.





I think that humanity would in fact live on in one form or another. I think that human beings in a lot of ways are like cockroaches. Impossible to kill them all.

Y'see, these are EXACTLY the two point's-of-view I'm torn between.....

[AcesandEights]

Y'see, these are EXACTLY the two point's-of-view I'm torn between.....

Ahhh, the Yin and the Yang, the emo and the hopeful.

[darth los]

Y'see, these are EXACTLY the two point's-of-view I'm torn between.....

But you on't have to be. In this case both are true. Humanity would be utterly wiped out. However, There will be pockets, Although very small, of humans that were able to find areas (underground bunkers as we saw in day of the dead for example), wait out the "lifespan" of the ghouls and eventually repopulate the planet.

Let's not forget that there might be over 6 billion of us today ( most in india and china, go figure huh?) :rockbrow: We all came from one man and one woman. So as long as there that left humanity will go on.




:cool:

[SRP76]

We all came from one man and one woman.



That would explain why so many people are defective.

[Philly_SWAT]

Really tho, I am in the process of writing about this very subject that is being discussed.
I have it set in my area and I have it that my family and my whole neighborhood pulls together to survive the zombie apocalypse.
OF COURSE you have it set in your area. Where else would a zombie story be set? :)

[Debbieangel]

well yeah ofcourse, I have it set in my area..was just saying!:p
My point is in my story we all work together. Option: work together or stay in own house and fend for yourself! Ofcourse, we would still watch out for those not in our area, I mean who needs even more zombs walking around?

[Yojimbo]

I'm also not a big believer in some sort of mysterious x-factor that halts or dramatically slows zombie rotting. I think they're going to rot at about the same speed that your average unembalmed corpse does.

There will be places IMO where determined survivors could hold on until decay removes much of the threat.


Footage showing the rate of decay for an unembalmed corpse exposed to the elements (ie. not buried)

WARNING!!!! WARNING!!!!
Not appropriate for viewing at work, or viewing before eating a meal. Explicit (non-sexual) and gruesome. Be advised that some of you may want to avoid clicking the following link!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6d_1182157401&p=1

[Publius]

Footage showing the rate of decay for an unembalmed corpse exposed to the elements (ie. not buried)

Too bad it's not timestamped. Of course, rate of decay can vary a lot according to climate, weather, etc.

[Philly_SWAT]

Too bad it's not timestamped. Of course, rate of decay can vary a lot according to climate, weather, etc.

Yeah that was my thought, a timestamp would have been nice. It looks like the face is the first to suffer noticible decay, which would jive with Savini FX.

I wonder who took the video and how. The body appears to be indoors...perhaps a basement....the ground looks like it may even be dirt...but I see no evidence of sunlight changing the lighting in the video. Was this some type of legitimate scientific study, or did some murderer (of his spouse perhaps) simply throw them in the basement and set up a camera to make that vid? And if it was some type of scientific thing, did they get permissions from the person and/or their family to make a video of a human being decaying for display on the world wide web?

[Publius]

The body appears to be indoors...perhaps a basement....the ground looks like it may even be dirt...but I see no evidence of sunlight changing the lighting in the video. Was this some type of legitimate scientific study, or did some murderer (of his spouse perhaps) simply throw them in the basement and set up a camera to make that vid? And if it was some type of scientific thing, did they get permissions from the person and/or their family to make a video of a human being decaying for display on the world wide web?

The video does seem to get darker and lighter in cycles, so you can probably count the days. It looks like it's outdoors to me, with leaves and small plants around the body.

I'm assuming the video is from the University of Tennessee's Forensic Anthropology Center (http://web.utk.edu/~fac/) (aka "the Body Farm"), where they routinely test decomposition under various conditions as an aid to criminal investigators who need to know that kind of thing to determine time of death, etc. Their bodies are donated.

[Mike70]

Therefore I wonder which would be the better pick to hold out with....the A-Team, or the local strip clubs B-Team?

what kind of jackass question is this evan? :lol: B-team all the way. hot chicks to spend time with and there is no way they could be any worse shots than the A-team.


That would explain why so many people are defective.

yeah, it can't be good when your family tree starts out as a shrub.

[Yojimbo]

The video does seem to get darker and lighter in cycles, so you can probably count the days. It looks like it's outdoors to me, with leaves and small plants around the body.

I'm assuming the video is from the University of Tennessee's Forensic Anthropology Center (http://web.utk.edu/~fac/) (aka "the Body Farm"), where they routinely test decomposition under various conditions as an aid to criminal investigators who need to know that kind of thing to determine time of death, etc. Their bodies are donated.
Though I am not certain of the source of the video, I had the same thought that it was something that was done on the "Body Farm" Their research on human decomposition is oft consulted and referenced by forensic anthropologists working with various homicide investigators.

At least, given the subject matter, I certainly hope that this was done on an academic level!