Just when you think people can't get any sicker...

[Neil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

So these three 'kids' (that's basically what they were), grew up togethor. WTF made all three of them this way :eek:


I've become aware of this story because there's an article in a UK newspaper today where one of the journalists watched one of the murder videos unaware of what it was. They appear to be quite scared by it! I suspect it's a clip of the video mentioned in the above wiki article.


My morbib curiosity tells me to hunt this video down, but my common sense is prevailing by not letting me! I just don't want those images stored in my brain!

[Philly_SWAT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs

So these three 'kids' (that's basically what they were), grew up togethor. WTF made all three of them this way :eek:


I've become aware of this story because there's an article in a UK newspaper today where one of the journalists watched one of the murder videos unaware of what it was. They appear to be quite scared by it! I suspect it's a clip of the video mentioned in the above wiki article.


My morbib curiosity tells me to hunt this video down, but my common sense is prevailing by not letting me! I just don't want those images stored in my brain!
In case your curiosity wins out over your common sense, I found this video when I searched after reading your post. It has a translation of what they are saying in the video, which you can read without watching.

Link removed by moderator

[EvilNed]

I get two of the guys... But the Alexander Hanzha guy. What did he do? It just states he is being prosecuted for 1 case of attempt of murder. But I never read anything about him in the text.

Still, a gruesome story. Yuck.

[capncnut]

WTF made all three of them this way :eek:

Local media widely reported that the killers had some sort of a plan to get rich off of the murder videos they recorded. One of the suspects' girlfriends reported that they were planning to make 40 videos of 40 separate murders. This is corroborated by the suspects' classmate, who has often heard that Suprunyuck was in contact with an unknown "rich foreign website operator" who ordered 40 snuff videos, and would pay a large sum of money once all 40 videos were made.


My morbib curiosity tells me to hunt this video down, but my common sense is prevailing by not letting me! I just don't want those images stored in my brain!
Holy shit! Just watched it - this is like the fire extinguisher vs face scene in Irreversible come true. Whoa, throw the book at them!


In case your curiosity wins out over your common sense, I found this video when I searched after reading your post. It has a translation of what they are saying in the video, which you can read without watching.
That's where I found it, Philly. Actually, for those into plastic surgery, it's an interesting display of how quick you can make a face look unrecognisable. But hard to watch though.

[AcesandEights]

Could never bring myself to watch a snuff film, but the descriptions of the murders provided in the article are horrifying, as is raw number of victims.

It's a shame the Ukraine abolished the death penalty, instead of just adding in stiffer requirements for its application.

[capncnut]

On second thoughts, I decided to remove the video link. While HPotD doesn't have any strict rules against death videos and the like, it does with pornography (I know, I know...). As the site contained numerous links to pornographic sites, it has been removed.

[bassman]

Holy shit....is this in the video you guys are talking about?


The murderers then poke out Yatzenko's eyes with a screwdriver, and stab him with the screwdriver elsewhere.

If that's it, I'm definitely not wanting to see that.:barf:

[capncnut]

Well, they jab the guy everywhere with the screwdriver. It's hard to define 'eyes' because in the opening 30 seconds, one of the kids absolutely takes the guys face off with a few heavy strokes of the hammer. I mean no actual facial features left, not dissimilar from Major Cooper in Day of the Dead.

[bassman]

That just sounds friggin disgusting. How did you guys watch that?!?

I have to admit, that I have a strange sense of curiosty to see it, but I'm definitely going to fight that urge off. It's like if you're driving past a car accident and you don't want to see a dead body, but you just have the need to look. Weird.

That's just disturbing that people do that kind of thing for pleasure. Makes me scared to go outside. lol

*runs off to get a concealed weapons permit while looking over his shoulder*

[capncnut]

That's just disturbing that people do that kind of thing for pleasure. Makes me scared to go outside.
It's interesting you say that because some of the comments on the link I removed were pretty much saying the same thing.

There was a transcript of what was being said on the video and after they pummelled him and jabbed him with screwdrivers, they're jumping on his body while laughing, saying stuff like "Whoa, he's really not having a good day is he?"

It's that what shocks me, not the death itself.

[Mike70]

stories like this me make me want to go outside armed like mel gibson in beyond thunderdome. even though the Ukraine doesn't have the death penalty anymore what is likely to happen to these "people" in prison will probably make them wish it did.

[Neil]

It's interesting you say that because some of the comments on the link I removed were pretty much saying the same thing.

There was a transcript of what was being said on the video and after they pummelled him and jabbed him with screwdrivers, they're jumping on his body while laughing, saying stuff like "Whoa, he's really not having a good day is he?"

It's that what shocks me, not the death itself.

This is what gets me... Three young adults, from seemingly normal (wealthy) families, and all three of them are somehow capabable of the most detached, inhuman violence you can imagine... How?

[slickwilly13]

I have to see this, too. Would someone be so kind to send me the link through p.m.?

[capncnut]

This is what gets me... Three young adults, from seemingly normal (wealthy) families, and all three of them are somehow capabable of the most detached, inhuman violence you can imagine... How?
It's like what makes two pre-teens entice a three-year-old boy to a train yard (James Bulger), force him to drink paint, bludgeon him around the face with iron bars, pelt bricks at him, jump on his head, and drag his unconscious (probably dead) body on the train track. There's never a shortage of freaks in this world.

[Neil]

It's like what makes two pre-teens entice a three-year-old boy to a train yard (James Bulger), force him to drink paint, bludgeon him around the face with iron bars, pelt bricks at him, jump on his head, and drag his unconscious (probably dead) body on the train track. There's never a shortage of freaks in this world.

Forced him to drink paint :eek::(

[capncnut]

Forced him to drink paint :eek::(
Yeah, a Channel 4 documentary revealed previously unseen death reports. They also placed batteries in his mouth and tried to make him eat them. Said batteries we're found in his mouth even after the train had sliced him up. :(

Oh and on top of this, both these twats are out - one with a kid of his own!!!

[Cody]

All I could watch was the first 2 seconds. I didnt see any of the "action" because I knew that shit was going to be intesne. I got a horrible feeling in my stomach and had to stop. I cant watch stuff like this, I once saw a semi snuff film on Chinas Fur Farms. The foxs, dogs, rabbits & erc were beating with bats so they were paralized but still completely felt getting skinned alive, I will never ever forget those moans of agony. That broke my heart, it really did. Shits fucked up. "how many to save the world?" There are alot of bad people in the world.

Those kids should be put to death the way they murdered that man. thats just my opinion though

[ProfessorChaos]

i saw a video once of a guy (soldier of some eastern european country, i believe) with a boot on his head and someone reached down and proceeded to saw his head off with a gigantic fucking knife. it was filmed pretty close up, with audio ....the sounds the dude was making as the knife went through his throat and vocal chords stayed with me for a long time.

[darth los]

This is what gets me... Three young adults, from seemingly normal (wealthy) families, and all three of them are somehow capabable of the most detached, inhuman violence you can imagine... How?


Perhaps they see the world differently than most of us do. Maybe it's precisely BECAUSE they are well off that they see others as play things that really don't matter.




:cool:

[capncnut]

i saw a video once of a guy (soldier of some eastern european country, i believe) with a boot on his head and someone reached down and proceeded to saw his head off with a gigantic fucking knife. it was filmed pretty close up, with audio ....the sounds the dude was making as the knife went through his throat and vocal chords stayed with me for a long time.
Old vid, Chaos. You wanna track down the one with the suicide bomber in Iraq. Both arms blown off, fighting for his life with a yankie soldier in his face, giving it, "You f**king dumb piece of shit motherf**ker!" :lol:

[Cody]

capn you know the filter was turned off right?

[Yojimbo]

Awful, awful stuff. Makes you realize that the boogeyman and monsters are not necessarily the stuff of imagination.

The freaks who committed these acts are sick and beyond hope. If it was my choice they would be put to death for the sake of society.

You all know that I am a fan of horror films, and can laugh along with all of you at the goriest splatter scenes. That being said, these videos depict a real situation where someone lost their lives. I hope that folks here will be able to resist their curiosity towards the morbid and refrain from watching these videos. As a funeral director, please believe me when I say that there are certain images that once you see you will never be able to forget, even if you try. You may regret having seen these images, but at that point it will be too late.

Understand that I am not condemming or judging those of you that have seen this video or are planning to seek it out. I am merely suggesting that if you do intend to watch these videos that you do so with the knowledge that you might regret being privy to the recorded images of the last few minutes of someone's life spent in terror and agony.

[capncnut]

capn you know the filter was turned off right?
Erm, yes Codes. Being a moderator of this board, that little change to the rules did come to my attention. Doesn't mean I choose to live by it though.

Anyway, PM's sent to the two sickos who requested the links. :D

[Neil]

oh and on top of this, both these twats are out - one with a kid of his own!!!

You're joking!!!! What happens when his kid finds out what his dad did?


Perhaps they see the world differently than most of us do. Maybe it's precisely BECAUSE they are well off that they see others as play things that really don't matter.

But to get three individuals, who all think that way... One's a fluke... Three's scary!

[blind2d]

I'm so sad right now... really, this sort of thing... it shocks and apalls me... I think I might cry...

[Neil]

For those that have seen it:-
- Do any of the three boys show their faces on the video? ie: How dumb are they?
- Is the victim still conscious (at least at the start)?

[krakenslayer]

So it finally happened. Real snuff movies - i.e. the murder of a human being specifically for the purpose of making a film to distribute to perverts for profit - until now they've just been an urban legend. Now they're real and you can watch them on the internet.

Brilliant! :rolleyes::barf:

The man in the video:

The man whose brutal murder is recorded in the leaked video was identified as Sergei Yatzenko from the village of Taromskoye. His murder took place on the 12th of July 2007, and his body was found on the 16th.

Yatzenko was 48 years old. He had recently been forced into retirement due to a cancer tumor in his throat. Treatment left him unable to speak for some time, but Yatzenko was unhappy with being unable to work and continued to find odd jobs around the village. He took on small construction projects, fixed cars, weaved baskets, and cooked for his family. He was just beginning to regain his voice by the time of the murder. Yatzenko was married and had two sons and one grandchild. He also had a disabled mother whom he took care of.

Yatzenko had had another brush with death 16 years earlier. While working at a farm, he lost control of his tractor and rolled downhill into a river. Instead of jumping out, he stayed in the cabin trying to save his vehicle, and ended up being pinned underwater. By the time he was extracted, Yatzenko was clinically dead. He was however eventually resuscitated. Doctors called his survival "one in a thousand".

At around 2:30 PM on the day of the murder, he called his wife to let her know he was riding his old Dnepr motorcycle to see his grandchild. However he never made it to his son's house, and his cell phone was turned off by 6 PM. His wife Lyudmila called a friend and walked around the village, afraid that her husband might have fallen ill or had a motorcycle accident. They were unable to locate any signs of him. They were also unable to file a missing person's report, since in the Ukraine a person cannot be declared missing until at least 72 hours after last being seen. The next day Lyudmila posted photographs of her husband around the village, and enlisted more local help to search the surrounding area. Finally, four days later, a local who saw one of Lyudmila's posters remembered that he had seen an abandoned Dnepr bike in a remote wooded area by a garbage dump. He took Yatzenko's relatives to the scene, where they discovered his mutilated decomposing body.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean you have to watch it. As far as I'm concerned, that's what the killers wanted - notoriety. They made the video to stimulate people's morbid curiosity. The way I see it, if you watch it, they made it for you.

Moreover, watching a videoclip of a murder may expose you to legal implications - think about what happens to people who watch child porn, which, all things considered, is not much different to this.

[Chic Freak]

If you haven't already, you guys might be interested in reading the Wiki articles on:

Psychopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath) (mostly a genetic thing)
Antisocial personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder) (mostly an environmental thing)

as explanations of these kind of OTT don't-give-a-fuck nutters.

[capncnut]

You're joking!!!! What happens when his kid finds out what his dad did?
Yes, James Bulger's killers have been out since 2001, Neil. Both are on a 'life license' which means if any one of them is deemed a danger to the public again, they go back in for life. Robert Thompson is the one with the kid and living with a girlfriend, who is reportedly knowing of his past. Jon Venebles was apparently stabbed in a revenge attack in 2007. Both are in their mid 20's.

The horrific thing is that apparently Thompson chose the name James in his re-identification. :stunned:

As for what Thompson tells the baby? LOL, he has a secret identity, no doubt what both parent's know will be kept hidden 100%. James' mother Denise claims that an anonymous tip off has led her to come almost face to face with Thompson since release, but backed off as he was 'too far removed' from the monster she saw in court.


For those that have seen it: Is the victim still conscious (at least at the start)?
Well he is in the second half as the poor guy starts flapping his arms and the kids are literally like "WTF, he's still alive?" although he is unconscious (presumably from drink) at the start.


Moreover, watching a videoclip of a murder may expose you to legal implications - think about what happens to people who watch child porn, which, all things considered, is not much different to this.
Twaddle. Some may say "morally, yes". But legally, nope.

The fact that death videos are available in Google searches disproves that, as child pornography is most certainly not allowed via such engines. Plus I would hardly call a person's morbid curiosity into watching a death video comparable to the rape of a child. :rolleyes:

[Yojimbo]

Plus I would hardly call a person's morbid curiosity into watching a death video comparable to the rape of a child. :rolleyes:

Cap makes a good point. Perhaps they are both "morally" questionable, but watching this video because you have a very understandable curiosity about death (which is a very human trait) is not comparable to watching child porn. Whether or not you are exposed to some sort of legal liability, either by watching the death video or by distributing it, is a question for an attorney, though I seriously doubt it.

Regardless of legality, however, it is my opinion- just my opinion mind you - that watching things like this (ie. a real murder) takes a serious toll on your psyche and soul. For me, I prefer not to view this, but at the same time I make no judgement on those of you who seek it out for curiosity sake.

[capncnut]

Regardless of legality, however, it is my opinion- just my opinion mind you - that watching things like this (ie. a real murder) takes a serious toll on your psyche and soul. For me, I prefer not to view this, but at the same time I make no judgement on those of you who seek it out for curiosity sake.
Yes, thank you Jimbo. I guess it could be damaging to certain individuals of a nervous disposition but I do not find any kind of recorded death offensive (nor do I find it pleasurable). I am at one with mortality and have watched a number of these movies just for curiosity's sake.

I have always been interested in the endurance of human survivability and kinda dont like being compared to a paedophile (as presented in Krakenslayer's comment). As far as I'm concerned, one is about morbid curiosity and one is about sexual perversion.

[Mike70]

i choose not to watch things like this for a couple of reasons. the first is empathy for the person suffering through something like this.

second, it simply fills me with horror that one human could treat another in such fashion and fail to understand that human life has dignity and worth, no matter who the other person is.

i am comfortable with my mortality. i know that my days are numbered and that due to illness or injury, one day, sooner than i would wish, will be my last. watching the horrible, painful and senseless murders of others does nothing, in my opinion, to either help me understand or come to terms with my own mortality.

the process of life itself, the watching of family age and pass on, the loss of friends through illness or accidents, and the birth of children (my own and those of friends and family) has taught me everything i feel i need to know about mortality.

[slickwilly13]

I watched it earlier, but chose not to comment about it. Because it struck a nerve with me. They are some evil pussified motherfuckers who preyed on those could not stand a fighting chance against them. Check the list of their victims. They do not deserve to live. And I do not care who their daddies are and who they know. Since they were not camera shy the police have what they need to convict them. Hopefully, these 3 and anyone else involved will be locked up for the rest of their miserable lives. And become prison prostitutes against their will.

[MoonSylver]

YThe fact that death videos are available in Google searches disproves that, as child pornography is most certainly not allowed via such engines. Plus I would hardly call a person's morbid curiosity into watching a death video comparable to the rape of a child. :rolleyes:

Watching one human being inflict needless cruelty & suffering on another is wrong. The rest is just semantics.:(


Awful, awful stuff. Makes you realize that the boogeyman and monsters are not necessarily the stuff of imagination.

The freaks who committed these acts are sick and beyond hope. If it was my choice they would be put to death for the sake of society.

You all know that I am a fan of horror films, and can laugh along with all of you at the goriest splatter scenes. That being said, these videos depict a real situation where someone lost their lives. I hope that folks here will be able to resist their curiosity towards the morbid and refrain from watching these videos. As a funeral director, please believe me when I say that there are certain images that once you see you will never be able to forget, even if you try. You may regret having seen these images, but at that point it will be too late.

Understand that I am not condemming or judging those of you that have seen this video or are planning to seek it out. I am merely suggesting that if you do intend to watch these videos that you do so with the knowledge that you might regret being privy to the recorded images of the last few minutes of someone's life spent in terror and agony.

Well said Yojimbo. It's weird, as big a fan of horror movies as I am, I can't stand to even HEAR stories like this. Not because I'm squeamish, but they sicken, sadden, disgust, & fill me with rage all at the same time.

I usually regret clicking on the links for these type of stories. I avoid the news like the plague. I can't stand it. It's too much.

When I hear about stuff like this I question everything. My beliefs, if there's a god or not, why does evil exist in the world, why must bad things happen to good people, etc. After a while I calm down & the answers usually come to me, but at the time I can't even comprehend it.

When stuff like this happens, I just hate the whole human goddamn race. Is any species that is capable of producing 3 monsters like these sick fucks out of it's gene pool really worth keeping around?

Ladies & gentlemen, if anyone doubts evil exists, with a capitol "E" I present exhibit "A". And anyone that wants to play one of those philosophical games of evil being relative to morality can go to hell. You can't tell me that one human being inflicting sickness & depravity on another for enjoyment or profit is anything else but.


i choose not to watch things like this for a couple of reasons. the first is empathy for the person suffering through something like this.

second, it simply fills me with horror that one human could treat another in such fashion and fail to understand that human life has dignity and worth, no matter who the other person is.

i am comfortable with my mortality. i know that my days are numbered and that due to illness or injury, one day, sooner than i would wish, will be my last. watching the horrible, painful and senseless murders of others does nothing, in my opinion, to either help me understand or come to terms with my own mortality.

the process of life itself, the watching of family age and pass on, the loss of friends through illness or accidents, and the birth of children (my own and those of friends and family) has taught me everything i feel i need to know about mortality.

Well said. Better than I could have put it myself. I get too emotional when I read stuff like this. I have a vivid imagination. I can picture the poor souls suffering, terror & agony. Imagine, the poor guy was on his way to visit his GRANDCHILDREN when these sick bastards did this. Can you imagine if your grandpa was on his way to visit you & someone did that to him?

I'm not a christian. But I pray to my own gods that there IS some kind of hell to punish the wicked. There has to be. I've gotta hope there is or I can't imagine living in a universe that unjust. That's why I'm such a fan of old testament style justice. I would have no problem seeing these bastards killed the same way they killed this poor guy. Only seems fair to me.

[kortick]

It took the internet to get people to believe
that snuff films are real.
I saw my first one in the late 80s.
I had a friend who got all kinds of films.
It was made in Nicuaragua or somewhere in
latin america.

It was different from the one being discussed here
in the fact that it was obviously made for commercial
purposes. This person had a whole camera set up with
lights and lots of various pain inflicting props

I doubt the young lady in the film appreciated
all the attention to product quality.
I wont bother telling what her one and only
role was like. Or of the Human who co starred with her.

I always used to laugh at people who used
to say to me there are no such things as snuff films.

not only are they made like this, but there is
a market for them.
one that is being fed product on regular basis
and has been for a long time.

[Neil]

For those that have seen it: Is the victim still conscious (at least at the start)?
Well he is in the second half as the poor guy starts flapping his arms and the kids are literally like "WTF, he's still alive?" although he is unconscious (presumably from drink) at the start.

If I recall from the wiki article the guy was on his way to see his grand kids, so I suspect he just stopped in the wrong place and got hit with a hammer... And then the video started...?

[krakenslayer]

Plus I would hardly call a person's morbid curiosity into watching a death video comparable to the rape of a child. :rolleyes:

Really? I personally don't find any ethical difference at all. In fact, if you want to get technical, I think watching a rape is slightly less immoral than watching a murder - as it would seem that severity of crime is the only dividing factor.

There is another important technicality here, too: this is not just a documentary clip of a car accident, or a news report from a war zone, or a bystander-with-a-camera's footage of an execution; all the evidence says that this video was filmed by the killers, and that the murder was carried out (at least partly) for the purpose of making this video, which was to be distributed online to bring the killers fame and notoriety. By watching this, you are closing the circle. I refuse to be the voyeur to their exhibitionist crime.

[capncnut]

If I recall from the wiki article the guy was on his way to see his grand kids, so I suspect he just stopped in the wrong place and got hit with a hammer... And then the video started...?
Ah, now I wasn't aware of that. The way the man was positioned on the ground at the beginning of the video led me to believe he was a drunk of some sort.

[Neil]

Ah, now I wasn't aware of that. The way the man was positioned on the ground at the beginning of the video led me to believe he was a drunk of some sort.

Nah... I suspect he's be bashed with something and then dragged there, ready for their fun and games...

Articles seemed to imply they would just clobber someone with a hammer out of the blue as a first attack typically...?

[Chic Freak]

I refuse to be the voyeur to their exhibitionist crime.

I second that.

[slickwilly13]

I mentioned earlier that they only prey on the weak. And the attacks were pretty much sucker punches, but with a blunt object, instead of a punch. They would not dare attack someone face to face with the stature of someone like DJ on here or Ace. Too difficult and risky for cowards.

[Arcades057]

One good thing about all this: Since the crimes took place in Russia, there is no such thing as the ACLU there, or any sort of protection for the criminals not given by the guards.

These three (imagine a really beautiful string of obscenities here) were likely brutalized by the Russian cops, at length, and in a variety of interesting ways. Not to mention what will happen to them once they actually get into the prison population.

Someone will be having a verrrrrrry bad day, or collection of days, soon.

Now were this is America or England, the kids would be doing soft time while society got the blame. Thank God it's in Russia where they might actually suffer.

[capncnut]

Hopefully, these 3 and anyone else involved will be locked up for the rest of their miserable lives. And become prison prostitutes against their will.
Actually was just reading about another Ukrainian nutter called Sergey Tkach, who raped and murdered 80 women over a 20 year period. Sentenced to life in December 2007, he will be eligible for parole in 2032.

[Tricky]

I dont want to see those videos,its completely sick & i hope the people who did it suffer in the same way as those they preyed on :mad:
Years ago someone showed me on their phone the video mentioned earlier in the thread with the guy having his head cut off & that turned my stomach & i felt dirty for a long time after,i used to have a peek on rotten.com years ago too out of morbid curiousity but i cant stomach anything like that now im a bit older.I dont like seeing people or animals suffer (although i dont care if the people who did this die in total agony) & i cant stand the fucked up kind of bastards who commit such crimes,or those who actively seek out such videos because they see it as "entertainment"

[krakenslayer]

One good thing about all this: Since the crimes took place in Russia, there is no such thing as the ACLU there, or any sort of protection for the criminals not given by the guards.

These three (imagine a really beautiful string of obscenities here) were likely brutalized by the Russian cops, at length, and in a variety of interesting ways. Not to mention what will happen to them once they actually get into the prison population.

Someone will be having a verrrrrrry bad day, or collection of days, soon.

Now were this is America or England, the kids would be doing soft time while society got the blame. Thank God it's in Russia where they might actually suffer.

While I share your anger and hatred for these kids, I think it's a bit dangerous to support state-condoned brutality. In an ethical sense then yeah, if one of the victim's relatives wanted to take revenge on the bastards for their horrific crimes, and run the risks associated with that, I would totally support them. But I don't think - given the vast power of the state - it is acceptable for a judicial system to "take revenge". Imagine you were wrongly accused of a crime (happens all the time, especially in places like Eastern Europe) and suddenly you found yourself thrown into a room full of thugs? I believe in revenge, but I think it should be one-on-one. Sure, the killers didn't give the victims a fair shot at survival, but the good guys have to maintain a sense of dignity.

What they SHOULD do, if any of the relatives wish, is put the killers and in a room with those who wish to take revenge in a kind of handicapped duel scenario, where the killer has a fighting chance of escaping alive but also giving the victims a chance to take revenge.

Honestly, I think we should bring back duels. :)



I have always been interested in the endurance of human survivability and kinda dont like being compared to a paedophile (as presented in Krakenslayer's comment). As far as I'm concerned, one is about morbid curiosity and one is about sexual perversion.

I didn't compare you to a paedophile. I said that watching a snuff film is morally no better (and possibly even worse) than watching child pornography. I didn't mention anything about your motive for watching it - not everyone who watches child pornography is necessarily a paedophile, just as not everybody who watches a murder is a necessarily murderous psychopath, but that doesn't make it okay to watch either of them.

[Mike70]

i've already weighed in on this issue at length but i'll put a few more cents in the pot.

the thing that makes my blood run cold over things like this is how a person(s) can objectify another in such a manner. how can a person suffer from such a serious moral and character malfunction? how can you look at another person and not almost instinctively understand that they are an individual with an intrinsic worth like you have? that they have the same feelings as you do, a life, family and friends that love them and care about what happens to them.

i can understand murder when done out of anger or revenge but how some people can simply make sport of someone's life is something i'll never understand.

[Neil]

i've already weighed in on this issue at length but i'll put a few more cents in the pot.

the thing that makes my blood run cold over things like this is how a person(s) can objectify another in such a manner. how can a person suffer from such a serious moral and character malfunction? how can you look at another person and not almost instinctively understand that they are an individual with an intrinsic worth like you have? that they have the same feelings as you do, a life, family and friends that love them and care about what happens to them.

i can understand murder when done out of anger or revenge but how some people can simply make sport of someone's life is something i'll never understand.

My thoughts exactly... And how can this be the case for three individuals all from reasonably good homes etc. ie: Not just one individuals turned out this way, but three did :eek:

[Chic Freak]

how can you look at another person and not almost instinctively understand that they are an individual with an intrinsic worth like you have?

It is a totally alien mindset- but as for equating your worth with other people's- check out some footage of psychopathic serial killers being convicted, or read reports about the trial... it's often noted that they don't seem too bothered about their own death sentences either.

Psychopaths are truly frightening people.