Zombie Film and Director Question - Zombie Mythology

[DjfunkmasterG]

This goes for both Studio Directors, Studio indie, and Us Low Budget guys as well.

As Zombie horror fans, do you prefer any new zombie film directors who come on the scene stick with the tried and true method of zombism, meaning slow, shambling, eat flesh, not too bright, or would you prefer to them to try something different?

I ask because someone had posted in a horror forum after watching Deadlands 1 and the trailer for Deadlands 2, that I seem to have taken the all the elements of zombism and rolled them into one type of zombie.

I guess what they are getting at is in both films, my zombies run, shamble, eat flesh, and in part 2 they are smart. The only elements I didn't take was the talking zombie, or the machine gun wielding zombie.

So do you as a zombie horror fan dig a mixture like that or would you prefer that someone like myself or any other zombie filmmaker use Romero's method, or a method used by someone like Snyder, or O'Bannon?

Now before you answer, let it be known that my zombie films are loaded with references to just about every zombie film made, meaning that I took what I loved about zombies in general and made my version of what I felt the zombie should be like.

So anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject.

[MinionZombie]

My thoughts are:

Zack Snyder can go fuck himself and his ego right up his own arse.

GAR could do with doing another kind of horror flick (or flick in general) after he's done with 'whatever Of The Dead', which I do look forward to seeing.

Deej - as you well know, I'm a big proponent of the Deadlands flicks, and indeed one of the aspects to your films I'm most drawn to is the production behind them - as well as what's on screen. True, proper indie flickery.

Danny Boyle - although he never made 28DL as a zombie film - made a great INFECTION movie with 28DL, and again, I really dug the production itself and the DV angle brought to a 'studio' movie (or the British equivalent).

Edgar Wright - Shaun of the Dead was fucking immense, nuff said. :cool:

...

As for the zombies themselves, as I've said elsewhere on the forum today, I can stomach the runners if there's a lot of something else going on with the product - hence why I dig both Deadlands films and indeed Charlie Brooker's Dead Set series.

However, generally I do NOT dig runners and think that zombies just should be shamblers. It makes the most sense, and it's the most interesting - besides, as I've often said, anything running at you screaming like a Raptor is scary. Even me running at myself in a mirror is terrifying. :p

Zombies should be dead, they should shamble, they should be slow to re-learn the basics of understanding the world around them, they should essentially move like drunk toddlers inside adult bodies (or children's bodies if it's zombie kids) ... I could go on, but ultimately like Simon Pegg wrote, death should be a disability to the zombies.

I think the great horror monsters should stick to the rules they were founded on mostly - at the very least the founding rules should always be kept alive, even if some people decide to go off and experiment (or fuck it up, depending on whatever view you happen to take).

It's like Dracula, or the Mummy, or Frankenstein, or the Wolf Man, and so on - the monsters have their individual rules or culture surrounding them.

I think it should ultimately be about creating a good film rather than farting around with the star, if you get what I'm on about.

[krakenslayer]

Really, it doesn't matter all that much. Things like "running zombies","shambling zombies", "thinking zombies", etc. are matters of personal opinion - one man's ninja-wall-climbing zombie is another man's Bub.

What REALLY matters is getting the balance right between two things: originality and consistency.

When Romero wrote Night of the Living Dead, he wasn't scared of breaking the accepted logic of zombie movies up until that point (i.e. that a zombie was big lumbering Mummy-type monster created by a voodoo spell or secret technology, under the command of a witch doctor or mad scientist), he created a new monster with its own logic and mythology. So breaking Romero's (or O'Bannon's or James Gunn's) rules is nothing to be afraid or ashamed of. On the other hand, if you are going to break the rules, don't go nuts: make yourself a new set of boundaries to follow and stick to them closely, otherwise you'll end up with a senseless, inconsistent mess of a film (the worst example I can think of is Zombi 3, where a chemical spill creates shambling idiot zombies that inexplicably turn into sprinting acrobats, eloquent zombie DJs and supernatural floating heads upon the screenwriters' whim).

Just my two cents. :)

[Philly_SWAT]

It may be hard for me to put my feelings into words about your question, but I will try.

To me, I think the real question here for the filmmaker would be "what am I trying to accomplish here?" (in regards to the zombie genre). In general, the two main choices would be 1) emulate a zombie sub-genre that is already established, or 2) establish a whole brand new zombie sub-genre. Of all the zombie genres that I have seen, far and away I like the GAR genre. Therefore as a fan, a film that was in this sub-genre (social commentary, shamblers, etc) would automatically gain more initial attention from me than a different sub-genre. Of course, opinions may differ, but that is mine.

However, when it comes to the finished product, I like a film based on other concerns than the sub-genre. Dawn04 did not follow GAR rules. I do not like it as much as GAR movies, however, I like it on its own. It may be number one in the "Synder" sub-genre, but not at the top of the overall "zombie genre".

If someone strays outside of what I am already familiar with and accepting of, the further they stray they may excite me and gain my admiration more, or dismay and cause great disdain on my part. A lot of times a great film is one that has the guts to stray from the accepted norm, but on the flip side of that, a lot of times a crappy film is one that strays from the accepted norm and does not create a compelling story.

[Mike70]

i think films are a lot like cooking, if it tastes good then it is good - rules be damned.

i think that "rules" in zombie films (or any other genre) are simply there to make the films in a particular series make sense from one to another. just because romero uses shamblers doesn't mean that there should be a UN resolution passed against using runners. it is the way they are used and the story being told. dead set used runners and it rocks the testicles off of most of the zombie films that have ever been done.

beyond just being a matter of individual taste, it also comes down to creativity. can you add something new or bring a twist to a genre that hasn't been seen before. how many changes to vampire myth have been introduced by books, tv, and movies in recent years? tons of them. some i like and some (anne rice's version) i think suck shit and should be shot into outer space.

back to zombies: i prefer shamblers but am not opposed to runners when the story being told and the characters in it are interesting. snyder's yawn 04 sucks shit not because the zombies run and sound like raptors, it sucks ass because it is empty of any sort of intellect and is disposable as japanese pop music. it is bad because it is the diet coke of zombie movies - just one calorie.


i like DJs approach - it was like he was at a big zombie buffet and took the stuff he thought would work and be interesting, incorporated it into the story and went from there. mutatis mutandis...

[MoonSylver]

Agree 100% w/ MZ, Kracken & Philly. Characters & story have to come first. I'm not 100% opposed to trying something new as long as your rules & logic are firmly established & consistent (ROTLD is a good example of this to me. Zombi 3, as mentioned, is the example of what NOT to do. Day '08 from what I hear is another)

Honestly though. I prefer the shambler for DOZENS of different reasons. I think one challenge for up & comers should be thinks for new, exciting scenarios & locations that we haven't seen them in before. Think of it as EXPANDING on the Romero style zombie WITHOUT changing/breaking the rules. Filling in the blanks that most of us have done in the back of our minds or here in discussions for years.

[EvilNed]

Make a good and scary film. That's priority number 1. Dawn 04 is never scary because it's paced more like an actionfilm, which is a big problem with runners. But I have seen good films with runners too! The 28 films, for instance.

[Yojimbo]

it sucks ass because it is empty of any sort of intellect and is disposable as japanese pop music.
Hey, Japanese Pop is no worse than American Pop, or Italian Pop for that matter. Diet soda will always be diet soda, no matter what country is making it. ;) Of course, I personally find J-Pop to be particularly annoying so I do know where you are coming from.

DJ: As far as I am concerned, you will do no wrong. I've seen what you are capable of!

Snyder- butt head that he is - and his film was wrong only in that it tried to fool folks into thinking that it was based on DOTD 78. On it's own, it was a pretty cool zombie film, though not nearly as complex or character driven as GARs vision.

Shamblers, runners - hell, I don't care. But let them be based on some logic. I don't really know, for example, how coming back from the dead alters your vocal chords to the extent that you can make yourself sound like a cougar or a velociraptor, or how it would make you suddenly be able to climb walls!

And I say this: If Romero did runners, I think it would be a lot more scary and a much more fun time than anything Boll or Snyder could fart out.

[MinionZombie]

hehe, as bad and silly as Zombi 3 (aka Zombie Flesh Eaters 2) is, I still kinda enjoy it - in the "so bad it's enjoyable" category, because it knows its a cheap-ass cash-in on someone else's work, but at least it's not a remake or some god-awful straight-to-video sequel, or some rape like Creepshow 3 or something.

Anyway, who can resist that electronic music that trumpets at any opportunity, or the utterly daft zombie DJ, or the total inconsistency - it's not a patch on Zombi 2 - but even then, Zombi 2 isn't a patch on a proper zombie film, and in itself was a complete cash-in rip-off (hence the name Zombi 2, being that Dawn was known as Zombi in Europe, for those that are unaware).

I've only seen it once mind you, but when I did see it, I was in a total cheesy euro-zombi phase, so go figure. :D

Zombi 3 is far from a good movie though, oh geez it is bad isn't it? :D

But there is enjoyment to be had in it's shit-ness.

Just watching the trailer as well, it almost feels like a rip-off of The Crazies too. :p

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[bassman]

In short, I think there should be no rules or guidelines and the creator can do what he wants. The thing is, when most films in this genre try to be original it turns out pretty bad....

[EvilNed]

Hey, Japanese Pop is no worse than American Pop, or Italian Pop for that matter.

We'll have no-bad-mouthing of italian pop while I'm around!

[Philly_SWAT]

hehe, as bad and silly as Zombi 3 (aka Zombie Flesh Eaters 2) is, I still kinda enjoy it - in the "so bad it's enjoyable" category, because it knows its a cheap-ass cash-in on someone else's work, but at least it's not a remake or some god-awful straight-to-video sequel, or some rape like Creepshow 3 or something.

Anyway, who can resist that electronic music that trumpets at any opportunity, or the utterly daft zombie DJ, or the total inconsistency - it's not a patch on Zombi 2 - but even then, Zombi 2 isn't a patch on a proper zombie film, and in itself was a complete cash-in rip-off (hence the name Zombi 2, being that Dawn was known as Zombi in Europe, for those that are unaware).

I've only seen it once mind you, but when I did see it, I was in a total cheesy euro-zombi phase, so go figure. :D

Zombi 3 is far from a good movie though, oh geez it is bad isn't it? :D

But there is enjoyment to be had in it's shit-ness.

Just watching the trailer as well, it almost feels like a rip-off of The Crazies too. :p

I have never seen Zombie 3, or the trailer. You are right, the first 30 seconds or so DEFINATELY reminded me of the Crazies! :lol:

My favorite part of the trailer is when the guy jumps up and grabs the chopper (presumably trying to escape) and then 3 zombies that were HIDING IN SOME STRAW on the ground come out of the straw and start grabbing the guy hanging from the chopper! Classic :lol::lol:

[EvilNed]

My favorite part of the trailer is when the guy jumps up and grabs the chopper (presumably trying to escape) and then 3 zombies that were HIDING IN SOME STRAW on the ground come out of the straw and start grabbing the guy hanging from the chopper! Classic :lol::lol:

There's a much better "zombie ambush" in that film. One of the characters is fighting off a pair of epileptic zombies and beats them up. He backs up against a wall, and a zombie pops out from a wall compartment behind him. If the zombie would only utter "A-ha!" the scene would be perfect.

[DjfunkmasterG]

There's a much better "zombie ambush" in that film. One of the characters is fighting off a pair of epileptic zombies and beats them up. He backs up against a wall, and a zombie pops out from a wall compartment behind him. If the zombie would only utter "A-ha!" the scene would be perfect.


LMAO, that would be funny as hell. :lol:

[Thorn]

That movie was an utter pile of schitte only good for a drunken laugh... and I don't drink.

Favorite parts... heads that leap, and undead birds flapping about.

[MinionZombie]

I just absolutely love the music in the trailer for Zombi 3, it's pure class. :cool:

[Yojimbo]

We'll have no-bad-mouthing of italian pop while I'm around!
:lol: As bad as Italian Pop might be, I'd rather chill to that than J-Pop any day of the week. Still might be diet soda, but better than the Japanese Variant.

[DrSiN]

I prefer a creature that makes sense given the rules and theme of the movie. That is, if you craft a story around it that makes since it won't matter if they walk, run or just sit there and fart.

For example and just to piss MZ off cause he's clueless :) the zombies in Dawn 2K4 worked because Dawn 2K4, a clumsy remake of Aliens, is an attempt at an action movie. They were never meant to be creepy, or scary in the traditional sense. They needed walking dead that came as a fast powerful waves, not in a slow lumbering fashion. The benefits of a slow zombie wouldn't have worked. Likewise, fast moving zombies would ruin the original night, dawn or day.

Now, D2K4 had problems, mostly in the script to be sure, but the zombies were right for that style of movie and the rules it set out. Personally, I found it fun, but it's certainly not a classic. A solid B movie.

So in terms of your movies, just make your creatures fit the story. In my opinion, shamblers work best when the zombies aren't the antagonist of the story. That's why Day/Dawn/Dead work while Land/Diary ultimately fail.

[Wyldwraith]

Personally I'm of the opinion that it isn't what speed the zombies move at, its what kind of story you have going on that's important. It's when directors/scriptwriters do things "originally" solely for the sake of being different that problems arise.

Conversely, I think there are conventions in the genre so overdone that they can't be successfully re-used. Example: What can one really add to the Humans Besieged By Zombies concept? One B-movie or another has done just about every setting imaginable for humans to barricade themselves inside of to try and protect themselves from zombies. What story of any quality can really be told with such a tired convention?

I'm also gonna have to say I agree with all those that mentioned whatever "rules" you decide on for your zombies you need to adhere to them religiously. One of my biggest beefs with the Resident Evil series is that every time they want to break their conventions they simply whip up T-Virus Version 1 million and Twelve and voila, new weird mutant dead thing.

I'd like to see some stronger characterization in zombie flicks. GAR gave us some truly memorable characters, but who else did as much? If pressed, your average zombie fan could probably come up with Alice from RE. Otherwise most characters are forgettable redshirts, forgotten as soon as the credits roll.