Would you stay home or go to the designated shelter? [Archive]

sandrock74

02-Feb-2009, 04:57 AM

Uncle Rege

02-Feb-2009, 05:15 AM

Stay at home-for sure! Especially that our house is made of brick-and most windows are 6ft. off of the ground-doors are solid steel, and we do have an attic to retreat to as a last resort (with an escape from the roof fan ducts if necessary) No way would we ever go to an area where large crowds are gathering-fighting-rioting-looting-outbreaks!

SRP76

02-Feb-2009, 05:18 AM

Why not go to the shelter? Everyone on here seems to think you need other people to survive. You aren't going to find them in your closet.

If you're well-outfitted, go to the shelter. The other refugees there are a ready-made army for you.

MaximusIncredulous

02-Feb-2009, 05:46 AM

The other refugees there are a ready-made army for you.

Or a smorgasbord. Well, at least they'll keep the dead busy as I high-tail it outta there.

sammylou

02-Feb-2009, 02:41 PM

Part of it depends on what the designated shelter is. If I know for a fact the place they're telling people to go is a building that is undefendable and dangerous, then I wouldn't go. Actually, now that I think about, I wouldn't go. Although you need other people to survive, going to a place with a bunch of other people is just like making it easier for the hordes of flesh eaters, as all of their meal would be in one place. So I'd go out to rural areas on foot or hold out at my place.

Mr.G

02-Feb-2009, 02:51 PM

I think anyone who has seen the movies knows what will happen at shelters. I'd rather fend for myself in my own home or drive to a remote area. I assume the shelters are located in urban areas...which statistically means more zombies. Count me out!

Thorn

02-Feb-2009, 03:08 PM

For me it would have to be situational, and you know it is just speculation. Who really knows what we would do?

The crap hits the fan, you are told to be someplace cops and national guardsman are enforcing martial law. You can not just say you would thumb your nose at the law and drive off in your survival mobile into the woods loaded for bear.

Honestly I have a survival plan and it does not really involve staying home or going to a shelter. That is just my plan in the end I might decide to go to a shelter because if that is the law, it is the law and you might not have all the facts at that point. I think that is part of it, all of this stuff is going down and in your mind you are likely thinking of "after". Like "once things return to normal I don't want to be a criminal".

Now if i am home and I have seen zombies eating people, I have lived through some bad situations and I know that other injured people pose a threat. I would be less inclined to go to the shelter.

If I was not 100% positive with up to date information that the shelter was secure I would never consider it.

I would rather make a go of it with family and friends somewhere.

darth los

02-Feb-2009, 05:53 PM

Just something I was wondering. We all know how the "staying in your private residence" thing was made illegal, and how everyone was to report to their nearest designated shelter. We all also know how spectacular that worked.

Me, personally, I would have fortified my place and stayed put at first. I would have been readying to leave and getting any and all info that I could. I wouldn't wait too long thou before hitting the road and heading to open areas I know of.

I would NEVER go to a shelter, I don't care what the authorities said! Even excluding the danger posed from infected people getting inside and/or zombie hordes from the outside, I don't see any good coming from cramming loads of people into a shelter. They did that in New Orleans and we all know what a mess that ended up being!

How about you? Would you even go temporarily to a shelter? Maybe to get info or food? Would you just hole up at home? Would you hit the road? What would you do?

Yeah but, in the words of the immortal doc Frankenstein: Where will you go?
We already know that in our own homes the food/water/ammo supply is limited maybe even non-existent. How long do you think they would last even if you had some?

Logic dictates that you would have to leave your home at some point either to resupply or tend to any injured family. So staying home is a temporary solution at best. The shelters pose their own problems as well

It's a shame that GAR never gave us any insight into exactly WHY the shelters failed. If I had to guess it was because of the same reasons that the farm house failed in night, the mall failed indawn and the underground bunker failed in day: HUMAN CONFLICT !!

Think about the chaos that probably went on in those shelters, not to mention looters. They would have had the same trouble that we saw in all of the films. It's innevitable whenever you add human behavior into the equation.

:cool:

Philly_SWAT

02-Feb-2009, 06:14 PM

I dont see how I could be convinced to go to a "shelter". Forgetting the fact that this could be just another example of GAR not thinking too deeply into things, I say that it was just a poor decision by those in charge. There is a certain amount of logic to it....if you have reason to think that the dead are coming back to life and need to be properly destroyed, AND you have reason to think that the populace may not want to do what needs to be done in that situation (i.e. they dont believe it, religious reasons, etc.), AND you feel this will have disasterous effects with more and more of the undead infecting other people, then I can see the logic with saying no one is allowed to occupy private residences.

The problem though is largely one of logistics. Many problems. For one, there would not be enough cops, army, etc to enforce this edict. They have their hands full fighting the undead, they certainly dont have enough manpower to go door to door. Also the problem of supplies. No way any shelter has enough supplies for the thousands, tens of thousands, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS who by definition would be descending upon them. In such a mass crisis, distribution of goods would break down quickly, so even if there were adequate supplies (which there wouldnt be) there would be no re-suppy effort Chaos would reign at the "shelters". You hear in Dawn, only 3 weeks in, that the most current list they have, "half of these are inoperative as of now". The shelters are breaking down already, yet SWAT raids continue. Where are these people to go? What are they to do if they can not occupy a private residence?

A good real world example...look how well the SuperDome acted as a shelter during hurricane Katrina. No food, NO WATER, no security, people being raped, people being killed, dead bodies lying everywhere. Shelters such as this would add to the zombie problem, not help with them. It was mentioned in this thread something like "everyone says you need people to survive the crisis, why not go to where there is a lot of people?" It would need to be the right people to help you, not those with no plan whatsover, that the only thing that had to do was go to the "shelter" as ordered.

darth los

02-Feb-2009, 06:19 PM

As has been said before:

The biggest problem in a catastrophe such as this one would be other humans. You'd probably have to be more vigilant against them than the ghouls.

Moral of the story: Stay away from other people.

:cool:

MikePizzoff

02-Feb-2009, 06:50 PM

sandrock74

02-Feb-2009, 07:27 PM

My biggest fear about the shelters are that, if I went to one, I would be unable to get out/escape. If the shelter were surrounded by zombies outside, everyone inside is screwed! Even if you could make it out of the building, your probably not going to make it thru the mass of hungry zombies immediately outside.

Screwed...

Thorn

02-Feb-2009, 07:42 PM

I think with shelters my biggest fear is complacency. Like you go in and count on others to protect you, and you get lazy.

Someone else mentioned Katrina and how that went down.

It turned my stomach there were more than one case well documented where people died and no one did anything about it, the bodies sat there with the living decaying, eventually someone threw a blanket on them.

People sat and waited for the government to bail them out. The government was coming, it was their job.

Damn that.

Your survival is your job, and if it looks like the government isn't doing their job for whatever reason, or can't then it falls on you and those around you to do the right thing.

And again complacency, I mean if you are counting on the swat team to protect you and they split chances are the guns are going with them so then you are at a serious disadvantage.

darth los

02-Feb-2009, 07:44 PM

I'd try to convince as many surrounding neighbors as I can to stay in our apartments. We could knock down the walls to create one huge living space.

It'd probably be a little safer than any sort of shelter the local government was providing. Not in the sense that I'm saying the gov't would surely do a bad job, but I just would not be comfortable crammed into one building with hundreds/thousands of people. One zombie somehow gets in the building and I'm sure the place would erupt into complete chaos and people would be trampled to death while everyone fought to get out the measly double doors. Plus sickness would probably be running rampant. Suppose someone was bit and hid it from everyone then turned in the middle of the night and bit a few people?!

Not to mention if someone amongst the group dies at night while everyone is sleeping, which is entirely possible. :stunned:

My biggest fear about the shelters are that, if I went to one, I would be unable to get out/escape. If the shelter were surrounded by zombies outside, everyone inside is screwed! Even if you could make it out of the building, your probably not going to make it thru the mass of hungry zombies immediately outside.

Screwed...

And you wouldn't have that problem at your house? :confused: It would be the same dilema except you'd have way less people to help you fight them off. :eek:

Each scenario has it's pros and cons but ima have to go with being self reliant on this one and only use others should the need arise. :sneaky:

:cool:

sandrock74

02-Feb-2009, 11:18 PM

And you wouldn't have that problem at your house? :confused: It would be the same dilema except you'd have way less people to help you fight them off. :eek:

Actually, I don't think it would be the same. One of the shelters would attract the undead for miles around. I always imagined them looking like the parking lot from Yawn 04. No way you can fight your way out of that.

As long as a person (or people) holed up in their home stay reasonably quiet, there won't be a mob scene anywhere equal to that. Besides, I wouldn't stay at home too long. Just long enough to pack stuff and make some plans. I'm of the belief that staying mobile is the safest way to go!

Philly_SWAT

03-Feb-2009, 12:10 AM

I'm of the belief that staying mobile is the safest way to go!
I am not sure what I believe is the safest way to go. There are pros and cons to both staying put and in moving around. If I had to chose, I think staying put has the slight edge. Having said that, you would still have to have a plan of escape in case where you were staying put was outrun, so I guess a plan of "staying put with a contingency of moving" would be my preference. The main thing that puts me in this way of thinking is that if you were constantly on the move, then by definition you would constantly be going into new areas that you had no recon on, no idea the lay of the land, no idea about the nature of the zombie populace in the area, not to mention the living populace in the area.

sandrock74

03-Feb-2009, 01:37 AM

I would get nervous staying put for too long. I would feel reasonably safe at the mall, but other than that, I have yet to see anyplace in the movies that I would have felt too safe. Strangely, driving around in the winebago and sticking to the back roads (ala Diary) felt the most "right" to me. Hell, it probably has to do with my desire to see whats happening in the rest of the world. Who knows? Maybe my being someplace would be important when something goes down.

I guess I would feel like I am doing something, anything as opposed to sitting alone in a boarded up building somewhere. I think feelings of being trapped would become overbearing and that would lead to a sense of hopelessness. By "traveling", I could keep up hope that I could do something, even if its just helping/saving someone else. It would give me more of a sense of purpose I guess.

And no, I would NOT carry a camera and record everything. :annoyed:

Philly_SWAT

03-Feb-2009, 01:42 AM

Uncle Rege

03-Feb-2009, 02:38 AM

Rural area building(possibly barn and hang out in the loft?), and make as little noise as possible. Take necessary supplies to the top floor (including rope, or ladder) and take out the staircase!!! (which would be noisey) :confused:

sandrock74

03-Feb-2009, 04:48 AM

I have given thought to the "winebago" strategy, but have rejected it. I am no mechanic....engine trouble, I'd be stuck whereever I was. Also, the problem of finding fuel (a problem they had with the chopper in Dawn). Also, as a noisy vehicle in theory it could attract zeds, as well as attract raiders who might desire the moving house. Again, there are pros to it...a base that you could fortify to some extent, and you could "take the base with you" so to speak, but to me the cons outway the pros. They also couldnt go across rough terrain, perhaps couldnt even get past debris in the road that other vehicles could.

I think it would be easier to find fuel for a vehicle than it would be for a helicopter. Also, if you stick to the backroads and avoid big cities, I don't think the roads would be bad to get by on. Where I live, the cities are packed, but the rural areas are virtually DEVOID of life (and therefore traffic).

I have the same problem as you, about not being a mechanic, but it would be a risk I would have to take. I still think I'd rather deal with that than be trapped in a building somewhere. Between the small mom and pop style gas stations in the boonies and siphoning gas from abandoned cars, I think fuel levels would be ok for a while.

Lots and lots of farmland where I have in mind. Plenty of apple and cherry trees and fields of corn stalks to provide some quick food. I guess I'm familiar enough with the area, the general layout and population centers, so I feel confidant I would be decently well off. I would like another person or two with me thou. A small, mobile group could work wonders I think.

Philly_SWAT

03-Feb-2009, 05:24 AM

If you are in metro Detroit, I doubt you would make it out of there!

Mike70

03-Feb-2009, 05:40 AM

i'd stay at home. i've never been one to do what i am told. second, i live in small town literally out in the middle of nowhere. third, i have about as much faith in the govt's. ability to handle something like this as i do in the sun coming up in the south tomorrow.

Mutineer

03-Feb-2009, 06:04 AM

I'd avoid crowds and shelters.

I'm fending for myself (and loved ones). I don't trust people, mobs, crowds ...

Neil

03-Feb-2009, 12:19 PM

is made of brick-and most windows are 6ft. off of the ground-doors are solid steel

Ummm... Are you in prison? :)

Thorn

03-Feb-2009, 02:16 PM

Ummm... Are you in prison? :)

lol... I was kind of wondering about the steel doors. That is at least fairly unique I would think.

Has to be great for security though if the door casing is steel as well and mounted with security in mind.

Mr.G

03-Feb-2009, 02:47 PM

lol... I was kind of wondering about the steel doors. That is at least fairly unique I would think.

Has to be great for security though if the door casing is steel as well and mounted with security in mind.

You know you've watched too many zombie movies when you look at a house and inspect the doors on the likelihood they would protect you from the undead.

Ok...maybe that's just me! :D

MikePizzoff

03-Feb-2009, 03:02 PM

I watched this TV show on this awesome wildlife resort type place. It was way out in the middle of nowhere and all of the cabins were actually TREE HOUSES! They were all roughly 20-30 feet off of the ground and connected by walkways. This would be an awesome place to seek refuge. Granted there's a chance you could starve to death if you let too many of them gather on the ground below and you have no chance of going for supplies... but that may be better than being eaten alive.

Cody

03-Feb-2009, 05:16 PM

stay at home. shelters always fall.

sandrock74

03-Feb-2009, 05:45 PM

If you are in metro Detroit, I doubt you would make it out of there!

Sure. I live in the suburbs, not in the city. I know the tri-county area well enough to get out safely enough. I would start by avoiding the freeways!

Philly_SWAT

03-Feb-2009, 08:48 PM

Sure. I live in the suburbs, not in the city. I know the tri-county area well enough to get out safely enough. I would start by avoiding the freeways!

Would you consider going across the bridge into Windsor? Seems like everyone always wants to "go to Canada".

DawnGirl27

03-Feb-2009, 08:56 PM

I would definately not go to a shelter. Who knows how often the condition is updated? What kind of people are there? The option of leaving if you want to?

The homestead farm I grew up on is 25 miles away - I'd high tail it out there. My dad's got pistols, shotguns, rifles, plenty of ammo, and a big shop with tools, wood, etc. that can be used for fortifying. Has several vehicles and tractors, a fuel pump, a big barn with hay loft, plus he's alongside a river so have a couple different options if need to make a getaway. I grew up there, and I know all 30 acres like the back of my hand, so I'd feel most comfortable there.

LoneCrusader

04-Feb-2009, 01:50 AM

All it would take is for one person to be infected or one person to die in the crowd of thousands at a shelter, which is highly possible, and they're all screwed.

I'd stick to the boonies. Rednecks, guns, brick houses, few people, food and farms, etc. etc.

sandrock74

04-Feb-2009, 02:19 AM

Would you consider going across the bridge into Windsor? Seems like everyone always wants to "go to Canada".

Nope. Thats in the very HEART of downtown Detroit. That would be a madhouse! Of course, even if the bridge was off limits, Detroit and Windsor are only like 1/4 mile apart, maybe less. Very easily swimable. The Detroit River is even pretty calm. Anyone could swim it. Probably take like 10 minutes to swim across (assuming your also lugging some supplies or something with you).

I would just go to the tip of the thumb of Michigan. Surrounded on three sides by water, and lots of farmland to the south. I got my plans figured out! :lol:

Shadowofthedead

08-Feb-2009, 06:33 PM

long time no talk... and evil ned where you been with those special blades of yours? any who in reality you would be better off with nothing than to be with people with everything. if you are a strong individual you can get what you need by any means necessary. to hell with a shelter. its a dang death trap in any situation whether it be zombie or reality as we know it. get a shovel a bag of twinkies and can goods water and survive. if you are expecting a child or have one prepare a head of time and put them first before anything. and lots of melee weapons like machete or alum. baseball bat.

Mr. Beakman

08-Feb-2009, 07:33 PM

I would stay home, no question. I live in a fairly rural area. On the second floor with one access, a fairly easily removed wooden staircase. I am also very close to several major highways in case an evacuation would become necessary. Hell, I cant stand groups of people when they aren't half hysterical because of a crisis. No way I could handle a shelter. Thats not even taking into account outbreaks and the other down sides of a shelter.

bd2999

09-Feb-2009, 05:38 AM

It all sort of depends on how things are being handled. I mean if it is announced everything is hitting the fan and we can see that it is being contained than maybe consider it, but if I look outside and the walking dead are around than they can f off. The risk is run of the danger of getting their, not to mention if things get worse who is to say the people running the shelter dont bolt and leave everyone to fend for themselves, then its just a death trap.

Alot of others have made good points, but where would you go? Staying at home is an option and if you stay quiet, fortify the place a bit and have some supplies you can hold out a good while for sure. If you have some time really secure the place and get supplies ahead of time you would be really well off, but you sort of have to hope it blows over and is not the end of the world. If it is than you have to figure out how to get your own food and staying in the house is not a good way to do that and to be fair your chances of fighting off wave after wave of zombies is really 0 or the other people who are just as crazy as you are at this point.

I would think that I would not go to any shelter unless they came to the house and forced me at gun point to go, but I am not for sure what I would do in the panic. Convincing family what is best would be the hardest thing to do really. Really it sort of comes down to the place you think would be ebst to be in a situation like this anyway, and there are threads on that, but I guess toughing it out and hoping it will get under control is probably the best case scenerio for anyone.

Philly_SWAT

10-Feb-2009, 05:34 AM

A thought just stuck me after reading this post...now that I think about it, the chances of being forceably removed from your home would be pretty slim. I suppose that if you lived in the heart of a big city, perhaps the "powers that be" determine that the city proper needs to be held (although, I think that would be one of the least likely places to hold in most cases) and would remove people in big buildings in the heart of the city. But in light of the fact that many military/national guard/cops would be abandoning their posts, and that the cilivian populace far outweighs those types, more than likely no one would could knocking on your door telling you that you needed to leave. Of course, raiders and/or zombies may come knocking no matter where you are.

MoonSylver

10-Feb-2009, 05:52 AM

darth los

10-Feb-2009, 02:55 PM

I think it would be easier to find fuel for a vehicle than it would be for a helicopter. Also, if you stick to the backroads and avoid big cities, I don't think the roads would be bad to get by on. Where I live, the cities are packed, but the rural areas are virtually DEVOID of life (and therefore traffic).

I have the same problem as you, about not being a mechanic, but it would be a risk I would have to take. I still think I'd rather deal with that than be trapped in a building somewhere. Between the small mom and pop style gas stations in the boonies and siphoning gas from abandoned cars, I think fuel levels would be ok for a while.

Lots and lots of farmland where I have in mind. Plenty of apple and cherry trees and fields of corn stalks to provide some quick food. I guess I'm familiar enough with the area, the general layout and population centers, so I feel confidant I would be decently well off. I would like another person or two with me thou. A small, mobile group could work wonders I think.

That's assuming that thousands of other people didn't have the same idea you did which is highly unlikely. Also, how long does it normally take a gas/fuel station before it requires a refill? A week, tops? Those things are going to be bone dry dude.

Another drawback of being on the move is that you don't have a fortified position and a sure to be under constant attack wherever you stop.

Now, we can point to the biker in dawn as a good example of surviving deep into the outbreak while on the road. However, there is alot we don't know. How many did they begin with? For all we know the group we saw raid the mall is only half of what they started with no more than 6 months earlier and we see how well everything worked out for them in the mall. Their numbers were further reduced. At that rate how much longer could they last?

Is that really the goal? To last a year? Or is it to find someplace where all this can be escaped and to live out the rest of your days in the safest manner/place possible for you and your family?

Now in all fairness, the bikers weren't the most diciplined bunch which shows in the items they decided to take from the mall. Their priority should have been guns, ammo, food and water. Manequins and hitting zombies in the face with cream pies should not have made the list. But that's pretty much the only example we can point to in the series of long term survival on the road.

:cool:

Thorn

10-Feb-2009, 03:09 PM

Surviving on the road would require a lot more than you and a top heavy vehicle like a Winnebago (while I know this was very popular in the comic books recently) it is in my opinion a poor choice. So many people talk about society falling apart, and needing this like power, medicine, doctors, mechanics, and a host of other people and items. You are getting all this in a Winnebago? Where are you taking it? Off road? You ever try to drive one through the mud? The roads would definitely NOT be safe. Between zombies, marauders, the sick and dying, the beggars,, the military and police.

Also you are going to need to get to a city or town to resupply eventually anyway. The more you carry the more gas you burn the more gas you burn the less distance you can travel.

So... what carry a dirt bike with you? Is this the safest mode of travel? Sure it plays out well in the movies zipping by, being exposed is never a good idea, and unless you have driven one you really do not know just how dangerous they can be in non traditional road conditions. Also storage is a problem. So you take a back pack, load it up in town after sneaking or fighting in. Jump on your bike and try to take off burdened down with goods, what little you could take,. This again strains your fuel, slows you down, and risks your life for little gain.

I love the idea of staying mobile on one hand, but let me tell you what great castles in medieval England served their purpose quite well, and a number withstood sieges for a good long while. Might you also run out of food there? CERTAINLY but you would have plenty of place to store it, comfortable nights sleeping so less stress on the mind, and the ability to thin their ranks from behind fortified walls.

I am a fan of structures designed to be stationary with a good exit strategy if the need arises but only long enough to get to the next base of operations.

I also can not say enough being alone is a HORRIBLE idea. I know several disagree. I respect your opinion. You go it alone, you break your legs in the mountains hunting. Good luck surviving. Who is gathering your wood, your supplies, your food? Who is tending to your injury? Keeping watch? Doing maintenance and clean up? You? Yeah…. You clearly have never had a broken lack that lacked medical care for any amount of time especially if it pierces the skin then you are screwed. Do you know how many antibiotics you have to pump into someone to ensure there is no infection? Do you know how much moving around can delay the wound from healing or prevent it all together?

sandrock74

10-Feb-2009, 05:08 PM

I wouldn't want to be alone, small, mobile groups are best. Probably between 4-6 people is best. Also, I wouldn't want to wander around aimlessly. I have ideas in mind for places to hole up, as well as possible places to resupply along the way.

Staying (mostly) mobile with a small group is what I would favor. Shelters are just an automatic "no". If I were being forcibly herded into one (which would be the only way someone could hope to get me into one), I would think of it as a death sentence. Trust me, I wouldn't waste much time in making my escape A-Team style!

Thorn

10-Feb-2009, 05:20 PM

Staying (mostly) mobile with a small group is what I would favor. Shelters are just an automatic "no". If I were being forcibly herded into one (which would be the only way someone could hope to get me into one), I would think of it as a death sentence. Trust me, I wouldn't waste much time in making my escape A-Team style!

Yeah it never worked out very well in the movies there were always casualties, and of course shelters never worked out very well either.

I am a big fan of getting a group of people you trust and care about and making a go of ultimately I do not think there is a right or a wrong we simply do not know, but I think each staying on the go and holing up has an up and a downside to it.

Solo though again for me is not an option. Hell you aren't even supposed to hunt alone, or hike alone, or even cave alone for very simple reasons that getting injured can easily mean your death and two heads and 4 hands are better than one and two respectively.

The loner, the rebel vs the zombie holocaust might sound romantic and appealing to some and I wish you luck, but while it remains great fodder for fan fiction it lacks a lot of believability and does not show much foresight.

darth los

10-Feb-2009, 08:48 PM

Nope. Thats in the very HEART of downtown Detroit. That would be a madhouse! Of course, even if the bridge was off limits, Detroit and Windsor are only like 1/4 mile apart, maybe less. Very easily swimable. The Detroit River is even pretty calm. Anyone could swim it. Probably take like 10 minutes to swim across (assuming your also lugging some supplies or something with you).

I would just go to the tip of the thumb of Michigan. Surrounded on three sides by water, and lots of farmland to the south. I got my plans figured out! :lol:

As we have already seen big cities are a death sentence. Coversely, houses are a death trap as well. Wood can only do so much to keep the ghouls out. If even one of then gets wind that someone is in there it's a wrap. Ghouls from miles around will "lead a path to your door".

It seems to me that a house or building made of bricks with high windows that also happens to be in a rural area is the way to go if you're dead set on staying at home. That way you have the best of both worlds.

:cool:

I would stay home, no question. I live in a fairly rural area. On the second floor with one access, a fairly easily removed wooden staircase. I am also very close to several major highways in case an evacuation would become necessary. Hell, I cant stand groups of people when they aren't half hysterical because of a crisis. No way I could handle a shelter. Thats not even taking into account outbreaks and the other down sides of a shelter.

I think that's the whole point of this thread though. Evacuation WILL become necessary at some point. It's only a matter of time before they get in or supplies run out.

I totally understand the mentality though. It's like a terminal patient who doesn't want to stay at the hospital and just wants to go home. People just feel more comfortable there but let's not confuse that feeling of comfort for being the best course of action.

You can also compare it to those facing a hurricane like Katrina and thus certain death. They just refuse to leave their homes for some reason. But just remember, following that course of action, that when you eventually NEED to be evacuated there just might not be anyone around to do so. :stunned:

It's just like in diary. Where did everybody want to go? Home. But was the best idea? I submit that it wasn't. We all saw how that turned out.

:cool:

Thorn

10-Feb-2009, 08:58 PM

I am with you on that one, brick over wood for sure with no low windows and preferably security doors. I also would use gravity as we have talked about at length to keep them out even more. Going up stairs and removing the stairs behind me. Taking out a porch from the front/back doors.

Placing obstacles inside the house to deter them and impede them at every turn.

If they ever did manage to get in I love the idea of them falling into the basement only to then go to a storm door and drag themselves out again like a giant zombie recycling pattern.

darth los

10-Feb-2009, 09:08 PM

I agree. And if not a house than some type of building either like the mall or the place the former national gaurd holed into in diary.

Hey if you could get the kind of deal that kaufman had i guess that would be pretty sweet too. :D

Also, check out the second half of my previous post. There's an edit.

:cool:

Safari Mike

11-Feb-2009, 10:22 AM

Really, everything depends on your personal capabilities and those of any friends you have with you...plus how much you can truly depend on them.

Can you actually shoot worth a crap and do you have the firearms and ammo to do so? Or are you expecting to become Davy Crockett the first time you see a gun?

Can you actually wield cutting and bludgeoning weapons such as machetes, sledge hammers, baseball bats, samurai katanas or are you kidding yourself that you would become Toshiro Mifune in a crisis?

Do you know how to find or filter/purge fresh water from dirt water?

Do you know how to start a fire with primitive starters?

For all the talk about gasoline supplies have any of you ever sucked up on a syphon hose to do it?

Do you have any idea how to skin wild game for meat? And lets be honest here, in a zombie world the most abundant meat is going to be ex-pets such as cats and dogs. Can you pop Sparkie in the head with a stick, skin him and cook him?

Do you have any idea of edible plants, poisinous plants, etc...?

Man is more dangerous than dead, unintelligent chomping teeth. I'll take a knife as my only tool any day plus my knowledge of building shelters, trapping/snaring food, water gathering and fire starting anyday over a shelter populated with humans. I'm on my own or with those who can contribute.

MoonSylver

11-Feb-2009, 03:23 PM

Can you actually shoot worth a crap and do you have the firearms and ammo to do so? Or are you expecting to become Davy Crockett the first time you see a gun?

Can you actually wield cutting and bludgeoning weapons such as machetes, sledge hammers, baseball bats, samurai katanas or are you kidding yourself that you would become Toshiro Mifune in a crisis?

:lol:

If I had a nickle for every person I've seen over the years that as soon as the dead rise are gonna become Rambo or a Samurai & "kick some zombie ass", yet have probably never wielded either weapon (or any other):rolleyes:

Not to mention all of the other survival skills you mention. There are a lot of people (myself included) who JUST AREN'T ready for this sort of thing. I've seen it espoused that we've (the human race) has survived etc, etc. As I think was Neil pointed out WE haven't survived crap. Our ANCESTORS did. They were tough hombres. Their skills were hard earned, constantly practiced in the daily struggle for survival & carefully passed down to each generation.

I'm not knocking our capacity to adapt & re-learn, but doing it "cold", on the fly, in most cases w/ no book or internet, etc, present to gain instruction from, is not exactly ideal circumstances.

SO...if you already HAVE the skills that;s one thing. Trying to learn them on the run? There would probably be a lot of people who wouldn't make it in the attempt.

That having been said, the alternative? Seems like it's a question of how you wanna take your chances. Trust the government to be able to handle the crisis & take care of you or go it on your own. Pretty risky either way.

Thorn

11-Feb-2009, 06:02 PM

you two both make great points, you need a dose of reality. RUnning into the woods alone to survive without the skills just means you die alone there. You are hardly doing yourself a service.

It is also well said that we have not in many cases endured the hardships of our forefathers. Some of us have though, and those are the people you want around. Like I said I work in IT, my immediate contribution would be lacking from a job skill perspective. I offer a host of other skills however, and a willingness and desire to learn more. Intelligence, planning, equipment, leadership, charisma, outdoors nature skills, cooking, specific weapon knowledge, and so on.

Most of all an ability to improvise, adapt, and overcome.

Reality and desire are two different things I think we lose sight of that many times. I would love ot be the guy on the roof capping zombies at range as needed with a rifle that is not my skill set though. So you find people who compliment you and you work together to accomplish your goals.

darth los

11-Feb-2009, 07:37 PM

:lol:

If I had a nickle for every person I've seen over the years that as soon as the dead rise are gonna become Rambo or a Samurai & "kick some zombie ass", yet have probably never wielded either weapon (or any other):rolleyes:

Not to mention all of the other survival skills you mention. There are a lot of people (myself included) who JUST AREN'T ready for this sort of thing. I've seen it espoused that we've (the human race) has survived etc, etc. As I think was Neil pointed out WE haven't survived crap. Our ANCESTORS did. They were tough hombres. Their skills were hard earned, constantly practiced in the daily struggle for survival & carefully passed down to each generation.

I'm not knocking our capacity to adapt & re-learn, but doing it "cold", on the fly, in most cases w/ no book or internet, etc, present to gain instruction from, is not exactly ideal circumstances.

SO...if you already HAVE the skills that;s one thing. Trying to learn them on the run? There would probably be a lot of people who wouldn't make it in the attempt.

That having been said, the alternative? Seems like it's a question of how you wanna take your chances. Trust the government to be able to handle the crisis & take care of you or go it on your own. Pretty risky either way.

Really, everything depends on your personal capabilities and those of any friends you have with you...plus how much you can truly depend on them.

Can you actually shoot worth a crap and do you have the firearms and ammo to do so? Or are you expecting to become Davy Crockett the first time you see a gun?

Can you actually wield cutting and bludgeoning weapons such as machetes, sledge hammers, baseball bats, samurai katanas or are you kidding yourself that you would become Toshiro Mifune in a crisis?

Do you know how to find or filter/purge fresh water from dirt water?

Do you know how to start a fire with primitive starters?

For all the talk about gasoline supplies have any of you ever sucked up on a syphon hose to do it?

Do you have any idea how to skin wild game for meat? And lets be honest here, in a zombie world the most abundant meat is going to be ex-pets such as cats and dogs. Can you pop Sparkie in the head with a stick, skin him and cook him?

Do you have any idea of edible plants, poisinous plants, etc...?

Man is more dangerous than dead, unintelligent chomping teeth. I'll take a knife as my only tool any day plus my knowledge of building shelters, trapping/snaring food, water gathering and fire starting anyday over a shelter populated with humans. I'm on my own or with those who can contribute.

Wow, many great points guys !! :thumbsup:

I've had discussions similar to this one and the bottom line is that technology has ruduced the human eace to pansies. We're totally dependent on it.

I put a question to a few people:

If all the supermarkets just disappeared where would you get your food? Yup, you guessed it, blank stares all around.

Everything nowdays is literally pre-packaged and served up to us. I've always said that if you wanted to bring about armageddon you don't need no stinkin' nuclear weapons or zombie outbreak all you would need to do is cut off the electricity and it would all end tomorrow. People don't have a clue on how to survive the way our ancestors have done for hundreds of thousands of years. The human race of today is a mere shadow of it's former self.

Expanding on that point as well as one that was already made, we always tend to say we when talking about the human race. we are where we are today only because of the genius of a talented few. W.B. Dubois came up with the term "the talented tenth" when describing how he thought it was up to the most gifted african americans to lift up the entire race. He was enough of a realist to realize that not every member of a group is capable of the same things. It's the same with Big Daddy and Bub and also with the human race.

There are only a select few who know how to make vaccines, nuclear weapons, electricity, flight ect. The rest of us are just slobs riding on their coat tails. If it wasn't for them we'd still be in the dark ages living without deodorant and tiolet paper. The rest of us are so expendable it's not even funny. We like to think of ourselves as all being equal but that's not true. The bottom line is some people are just worth more than others. This might offend some people but sorry, someone had to tell you:

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD !!

:cool:

Philly_SWAT

11-Feb-2009, 08:03 PM

Good post. Luckily for me, I do have experience with firearms, and survival training, such as fire starting, purifiying water, edible plants, etc., and even then I realize that there is no guarantee of my survival in a zombie outbreak. I may be prepared more than most, but sheer luck could cause a novice to survive, and bad luck could cause my death.

The food thing...I think that the most dangerous thing on Earth right now, at least in Western countries such as the US, is that the entire mechanism for food growing/distribution is in the hands of so few. With the current worldwide economic crisis, if something happens to the food supply, it will be chaos. People would be much better off with backyard vegatable gardens than lush lawns. Food is one of the most basic needs for individual survival, let we have allowed ourselves to be set up for possible disaster.

darth los

11-Feb-2009, 09:04 PM

As they say: I'd rather be lucky than good any day.

But it's not only the food situation. One could argue that medicine is just as important along with other things as well.

Take me for example. I have lupus. I also haven't the foggiest idea how to "make" my own meds.

Bottom line: Civilization goes Kaput, Carlos dies, end of story. :(

It's crazy to think of just how many things that ,as i said in an earlier post, are pre packaged and served up to us that we could never get along without.

:cool:

Wyldwraith

12-Feb-2009, 04:48 AM

Not going to a shelter,
The US gov't has failed too many times, far too consistently, with FAR less comprehensive catastrophes than the recently dead rising to attack the living on a global scale for me to trust its representatives with my life, and the lives of my loved ones.

I'm NOT however one of those who is going to loudly thump his chest and declare how well I'd do in such a post-apocalyptic environment. In reality I'd simply be choosing my death sentence instead of letting the gov't choose it for me.

You know what? If that's all I have left then that's fine with me. When the zombies are tearing me apart, or I'm struggling for my last breath in the final stages of severe and untreated pneumonia at least I won't be going through all that AND beating myself up for allowing myself to be led by the hand to slaughter.

Terminal patients who choose to go home to die have something that those who allow their doctors to convince them to stay in the hospital and prolong the inevitable don't. The dignity of self-determination as to how they will die.

If you were convinced it was only a matter of time before the calamities surrounding the dead rising claimed your life, which would you honestly prefer: Doing your best to survive and dying knowing you did everything you could, or waiting in a cramped shelter stinking of body odor, human waste and fear for the end to find you on your government-issued 1950s cot with a hefty bag for a blanket?

A more interesting question than going to the Shelter or Staying Home has emerged.

If hopelessly cornered by the undead, how do you leave this life? Painlessly with a pharmaceutical cocktail, only to stand up and join the horde in a couple of minutes. Eat your gun barrel? Go down guns blazing and torn to pieces?

What end would you choose for yourself if trapped by the undead, no food or water, and no hope of escape?

SRP76

12-Feb-2009, 05:59 AM

If hopelessly cornered by the undead, how do you leave this life? Painlessly with a pharmaceutical cocktail, only to stand up and join the horde in a couple of minutes. Eat your gun barrel? Go down guns blazing and torn to pieces?

What end would you choose for yourself if trapped by the undead, no food or water, and no hope of escape?

That's simple. Use all my ammo except the last round on the zombies, then the last one on my head. And, unlike the dumb bitch in Diary, I won't miss.

No need for fancy methods. And certainly no need for the agony of being bitten apart, possibly living for minutes on end while a bunch of corpses unreel my digestive tract.

Thorn

12-Feb-2009, 03:36 PM

At no point do I ever lie down and die and just give up, it is not in my make up. I am no casting aspersions on anyone who does. Even if I am surrounded and it seems utterly hopeless I am trying something. In fact I would definitely go down fighting my way out of it either physically or mentally.

If I die I die, I can not control that but I fully have control over the fact that I would try.

Now some might say "you die you become a zombie do you want to walk around like one of them?"

Frankly unless it is a living death where you are fully aware of everythign around you but you are unable to control yourself then it does not seem so bad to me. Example "Oh god there is a little kid there, she is running... ogh god she fell I am going to eat her... why can't I stop myself oh god... I am killing her" That would be a horrible living death.

Being "Big Daddy" didn't seem so horrible to me, in fact George portrayed him as defending "his people" surely there is some appeal there to someone of my character.

Now, on th other side of the coin you might say "Don't you owe it to other survivors to not come back and hunt them relentlessly?" I would say that is a valid point and I agree that we do owe something to other survivors, but I am not going to lie down for them. I would need to try my best to fight or think my way out of any situation and if I fail I fail. The world is better off with more survivors in it who are good people too and if we just run around giving up when it looks bleak we are not helping anyone either.

Anyhow. If cornered, trapped, and it looked 100% certain I was going to die, I would STILL try to fight my way out. That is the long and short of it.

darth los

12-Feb-2009, 09:31 PM

Safari Mike

13-Feb-2009, 12:17 AM

My choice of going it alone is that I wouldnt trust the gov. They would immediately disarm you coming into a shelter and then you fall under their care and hierarchy while they figure out what skills you have that they can exploit...for the greater good of course. I'd choose to go it alone/with a small group of like minded people who I could trust rather than a shelter full god knows what. Perhaps thats a bit selfish since my ability might help other have a better chance of survival but that comes at the risk of becoming an indentured servant to the system. Consider: if you are military, police, doctor, even an experienced hunter do you think the collective is going to willingly let you leave? Nope, they would shoot you rather than let you leave.

As for meat source, the most likely source would be pets breeding into feral animals especially cats. Snares are the best hunting method for a variety of reasons but if you have never used them, times could be lean through the learning curve. You could devise something akin to rabbit net fencing to run them into and be caught. Many different snaring methods but the advantage is no gunfire. The hardest thing would edible plants and getting enough of the right vitamens to stay healthy.

Philly_SWAT

13-Feb-2009, 01:50 AM

Take me for example. I have lupus. I also haven't the foggiest idea how to "make" my own meds.

Bottom line: Civilization goes Kaput, Carlos dies, end of story. :(
:cool:
I would not want you to die dude! Yes, some individuals would no doubt die if medicine production came to a halt. But the majority would live. Perhaps people would be generally sicker than now, but the human body is pretty resilient in general.

Not going to a shelter,
The US gov't has failed too many times, far too consistently, with FAR less comprehensive catastrophes than the recently dead rising to attack the living on a global scale for me to trust its representatives with my life, and the lives of my loved ones.
One need look no further than how local, state, and federal government handled the Katrina disaster to know this is true.

A more interesting question than going to the Shelter or Staying Home has emerged.

If hopelessly cornered by the undead, how do you leave this life? Painlessly with a pharmaceutical cocktail, only to stand up and join the horde in a couple of minutes. Eat your gun barrel? Go down guns blazing and torn to pieces?

What end would you choose for yourself if trapped by the undead, no food or water, and no hope of escape?

That's simple. Use all my ammo except the last round on the zombies, then the last one on my head. And, unlike the dumb bitch in Diary, I won't miss.

No need for fancy methods. And certainly no need for the agony of being bitten apart, possibly living for minutes on end while a bunch of corpses unreel my digestive tract.

At no point do I ever lie down and die and just give up, it is not in my make up. I am no casting aspersions on anyone who does. Even if I am surrounded and it seems utterly hopeless I am trying something. In fact I would definitely go down fighting my way out of it either physically or mentally.

If I die I die, I can not control that but I fully have control over the fact that I would try.

Now some might say "you die you become a zombie do you want to walk around like one of them?"

Frankly unless it is a living death where you are fully aware of everythign around you but you are unable to control yourself then it does not seem so bad to me. Example "Oh god there is a little kid there, she is running... ogh god she fell I am going to eat her... why can't I stop myself oh god... I am killing her" That would be a horrible living death.

Being "Big Daddy" didn't seem so horrible to me, in fact George portrayed him as defending "his people" surely there is some appeal there to someone of my character.

Now, on th other side of the coin you might say "Don't you owe it to other survivors to not come back and hunt them relentlessly?" I would say that is a valid point and I agree that we do owe something to other survivors, but I am not going to lie down for them. I would need to try my best to fight or think my way out of any situation and if I fail I fail. The world is better off with more survivors in it who are good people too and if we just run around giving up when it looks bleak we are not helping anyone either.

Anyhow. If cornered, trapped, and it looked 100% certain I was going to die, I would STILL try to fight my way out. That is the long and short of it.
Excellent post Thorn. I feel the same way as you, but have some different thoughts that I will share.

Sometimes I wonder how many people actually would/could kill themselves. It is easy enough to say you would, but until the time comes, you may not, either because you are too scared, a wuss, etc. to off yourself, or survival instinct you never knew you had working as a manager at Kinko's kicks in, and even though you planned to do it, you still fight until it is too late to do so.

Your point about the "horrible living death" is well taken. That would indeed totally suck. Problem is, you would have no way to know until after the fact, as we have no evidence that anyone who has reanimated can communicate complicated ideas such as this to the living.

As for the "duty to other survivors", that is another good point. However, in the spirit of ultimate survival instinct, technically, you dont know for sure that you would be doomed to a live as a member of the undead. For all you know, someone may come up with a ..."cure"..or a way to reverse the process. Or the mysterious forces that started the problem to begin with reemerge and stop the problem. So if you were fortunate enough to not be killed in your "new life" as a zed, you may be able to live again as a normal human. This would be another reason to not off yourself. You could argue "but you were already dead as a human being, no way you could be brought back to life". Normally that would be true, but normally you couldnt be reanimated as a zombie, so perhaps it is possible. Might even be an infintesimately small chance, but a chance none the less.

Wyldwraith

13-Feb-2009, 07:21 AM

Good points one and all,
I will respectfully have to disagree with the position of going down fighting in an utterly hopeless cause. If I'm trapped in a closet, four bullets left and a bottle of oxycodone in my pocket (quite likely for me, since I get a 3month scrip at a time) I'm swallowing the pills.

I can imagine few worse fates than being devoured alive. Especially by creatures that are poorly designed to prey on human beings. It's one thing when a tiger gets ahold of your neck in its jaws, or a crocodile deathrolls you into pieces in seconds. It's QUITE ANOTHER to be pulled apart and gnawed on with fingers and human teeth.

Then there's the possibility of the "conscious living death theory". The very POSSIBILITY is enough to make me reconsider my method of checking out, and going with a bullet to my skull instead. (perhaps after taking enough pills to get me nice and mellow first).

I completely respect the drive to go down spitting in the eye of your killer(s), but IMO the stakes are too high if you're hopelessly trapped to not do something to prevent being eaten alive/converted into one of the living dead.

Note: I draw a DISTINCT line between Hopelessly Trapped and Near-Hopelessly Trapped. If there's one chance in a thousand I could escape I know myself well enough to know I'd give it a shot, and pray I could get the gun in my mouth if I got pulled down by the dead.

I would put forward for your consideration the point that as hard as it might be to eat a bullet, for many people it could be even harder to fling open the door of the closet and rush forwards at a hundred zombies, firing off the last 10-20 bullets you've got in your guns. Self-preservation is a powerful instinct, but I believe many people make peace with their situation when they can feel their number is up. Could be wrong, but to me it's that whole dignity of self-determination of one's end thing.

Thorn

13-Feb-2009, 02:15 PM

Great posts at the end here, and I respect totally where Philly and Wyld are coming from. Some of it makes me think pretty hard on the topic, sometimes people at the end of their life due to illness just want to let go. My ex's grandmother kept saying at the end "I just want to go home" We thought she meant to her house, but based on what she had been writing and her normal way of talking she meant "to the lord".

So It is a valid point that is made that some might just come to terms with it and accept their fate.

I also wholly agree with the point that it is just as scary, if not more so to throw open that closet door and face what is waiting for you on the other side. It is well said and I can not argue that. I just know for me suicide =no chance. Me, plan in mind, weapon in hand=hope.

I know it is not just me but I gravitate towards hope every time.

Wyldwraith

13-Feb-2009, 05:38 PM

Thanks Thorn,
And like I said, I completely respect the holding onto hope/fighting to your last breath & bullets position. I'm not trying to glorify suicide/giving up by any means. Also, if I felt like there was even a long shot of escape/survival I'd take it. I've given it tons of thought though, and I simply can't accept willingly putting myself in a situation where my check-out is via dozens of grasping hands, digging fingers and dull teeth.

However, I do believe it's important for the species to retain members who WILL fight and claw to the very end, because often that's the only way survival is achieved. In the wake of a global zombie uprising the human race will need to be naturally selecting for high self-preservation drives and survival-at-any-cost traits.

The people who will make it through a zombie apocalypse are the ones who wouldn't hesitate to break the leg of the weakest member of their group to leave them behind to draw off the zombies to allow the group they were leading time to get to safety.

Nobility, honor, morality, decency, all of these would be liabilities in such a world. Well, maybe not honor entirely. A certain form of feral pack-loyalty would be something of a virtue I suppose, so long as one's tribemates could still pull their weight.

I truly believe the first and most definitive casualty of a zombie uprising would be our humanity. Time and time again "doing the right thing" will get people eaten/infected. Who's going to survive? The guy who doesn't risk his ass unless he absolutely must.

If all the decent people have been eaten then who is breeding/rearing the next generation? You got it, the scoundrels, cowards and self-serving jackals.

It's depressing if you really think about it. Not that I always feel this way. I'm of two very different minds on this subject. Sometimes I feel the scumbags will inherit the Earth, and sometimes I feel that honor and loyalty is all that would allow us to unite against the common threat.

Anyways, I'm babbling at this point, so I'll shut up now ;)

Thorn

13-Feb-2009, 05:44 PM

No it is a great point you make, and in one of the zombie games I play I actually list my code of honor, superman complex, and boyscout mentality as liabilities in any zombie uprising.

You would need people around to make hard decisions, and a voice of reason to say "Let her go man, she is dead already" or else I am certain by my nature I would take undue chances to do what is right in my mind.

How do I know? Well I don't for sure, but there are lot's of real world situations I can point to where I did plenty of this I fail to see how that would change.

Philly_SWAT

13-Feb-2009, 07:40 PM

I would put forward for your consideration the point that as hard as it might be to eat a bullet, for many people it could be even harder to fling open the door of the closet and rush forwards at a hundred zombies, firing off the last 10-20 bullets you've got in your guns. Self-preservation is a powerful instinct, but I believe many people make peace with their situation when they can feel their number is up. Could be wrong, but to me it's that whole dignity of self-determination of one's end thing.
You did make an excellent post Wyld. I think that most people would never "fling open the door and fire their last bullets" (unless they had just watched Butch Cassiday and the Sundance Kid immediately prior to their situation :) ) I think it is more likely to just not open the door.

For example, let me assume that for whatever reason I am trapped in a closet. Lets even say I have a gun with a small supply of ammo. I know there are legions of undead outside the door, and throughout whatever building I am in. I know that there is no chance of my escaping the building. Any scenario of me opening the door means I will be attacked/killed/eaten. If the closet door was sturdy/barricaded/etc., and was withstanding the meek pounding outside, there would be no reason to open it. Is there high shelves I could climb on, to where if they broke in I would be above/out of the reach? Is there the possibility of busting the floor and entering a crawlspace? Even with a heavy duty floor and no tools, if the door was holding, I could try using my belt buckle, a coat hanger, whatever, to try to scratch a way thru. There would always be some chance of outside interference. A zombie clearing posse could come thru, kill the zeds, and I could escape. Who know, lightening could strike, start a fire, zeds are burning, along with the outside wall of the room the closet is in. Waiting until the last second, there could be a chance of running out past the burning zeds, out the burnt down wall and surviving. It would be hard to survive in the closet for much more than a week without water. Perhaps if I was literally about to die from dehydration, I would be forced to at least consider the old bullet to the brain. But I think there would be no reason to even think about giving up until the absolute last possible moment.