things that make you think

[Mike70]

this thread can go anywhere, anywhere at all. i am interested in the kinds of things that give you a bit of pause in your everyday life and cause you to wonder.

this is one of those things for me. to say i'm interested in the ancient world is a massive understatement. this is from one of the cro-magnon (the ancestors of every western/northern european alive today) cave paintings, where a guy simply put his hand on the wall and painted around it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Pech_Merle_main.jpg/429px-Pech_Merle_main.jpg

this always makes me think about the guy painted around his hand. what was his name? what did he do in his tribe? was he important or just a young man screwing around. i also wonder about the fact that the haplogroup my blood type belongs to (i've participated in a couple of mitochondrial DNA studies by simply swabbing my mouth for cheek cells - the results were fascinating) originated in southern france and northern italy, did one of my ancestors belong to this guy's tribe or live near them.


like i said this thread can anywhere. anything that gives you pause for thought is welcome.

[MoonSylver]

this thread can go anywhere, anywhere at all. i am interested in the kinds of things that give you a bit of pause in your everyday life and cause you to wonder.

this is one of those things for me. to say i'm interested in the ancient world is a massive understatement. this is from one of the cro-magnon (the ancestors of every western/northern european alive today) cave paintings, where a guy simply put his hand on the wall and painted around it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Pech_Merle_main.jpg/429px-Pech_Merle_main.jpg

this always makes me think about the guy painted around his hand. what was his name? what did he do in his tribe? was he important or just a young man screwing around. i also wonder about the fact that the haplogroup my blood type belongs to (i've participated in a couple of mitochondrial DNA studies by simply swabbing my mouth for cheek cells - the results were fascinating) originated in southern france and northern italy, did one of my ancestors belong to this guy's tribe or live near them.


like i said this thread can anywhere. anything that gives you pause for thought is welcome.

I always dug that one too. You're a LOT more knowledgeable about this stuff that me Mike, so if I state anything incorrect, what can I say: I'm a dumbass.

I'm very interested in shamanism (yes, realize that authentic shamanism refers to one particular practice hailing from Siberia, & that the term has been culturally appropriated to cover a whole range of tribal spiritual practices. But since it's become the "default generic" term, so I'm rolling with it...)

Anyhoo...all that+your cave painting leads me to my favorite:

http://mintwiki.pbwiki.com/f/sorcerer+of+trois+freres.jpg

http://anthropik.com/wp-content/uploads/paleolitico.png

That one makes me wonder. Who is that guy? What does he represent? Is he to be a shaman in costume? In the stages of shape shifting? Is he a deity of some sort? ( I sooo wanna get that as a tattoo...)

Other things that make me wonder, is what was it like to be a "primitive" man in general? To live in a world of magic & terror & wonder? Where the world was infinitely unknown? The final frontier was just over the next hill, and the next, and the next...where the night sky was an endless mystery. Where gods & spirits were real.

The nature of "god" in general, whatever he/she/it/they may be makes me wonder. Who is (he)? What does he want? Why were we created? That one makes me think a lot. If we see god as "parent" then I guess we were created for the same reason any parent has children. Sometimes I think maybe it's just so this perfect, endless wouldn't have to be eternally. endlessly alone. Sometimes I wonder if it isn't a cosmic experiment. That we're rats in the maze. Sometimes I think maybe we're just being watched for amusement.

Is god a perfect being? I wonder if it's possible to be so omnipotent, omniscient, & omnipresent as to be capable of all creation & yet still not "perfect"? To make mistakes.

I wonder in amazement sometimes at how far we've come as a species. All that we've been & done. And yet we've still got so far to go. I wonder if we'll make it. I'd like to think so somehow, but sadly I have a hard time thinking so.

I wonder if we DO make it, how far will we go? Where does our evolution end? (makes me think of the end of Babylon 5, a la the Vorlons)

I wonder about fate & destiny & if they exist, or if it's all free will & random chance. I think it's both going on at the same time somehow...

I think about good & evil a lot, the nature of, why do bad things happen to good people, all that usual stuff. This ties in to the god stuff a lot.

Here is a movie I think you would LOVE Mike, "The Man From Earth" it's about a going away part for a professor who asks, as an intellectual exercise, of his colleagues the question, what if a cro-magnon man who didn't age continued to live & thrive until modern day. Who would he be? Through the course of the conversation they begin to suspect HE may be the subject of their conversation. What follows is a great discussion that touches on science, philosophy, religion, metaphysics, etc, etc. It's a science fiction movie w/ no special effects, explosions, robots, etc. It basically is a one act play, all takes place in one cabin in real time & is just a bunch of people sitting around talking. And it's utterly fascinating. Can't recommend it enough. Great cast too, including Tony Todd. If you like things that make you wonder & think, this is it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_From_Earth

[Danny]

hate to post a mo' comment, but when im in the bathroom i consider infinity.

[DawnGirl27]

I'm a history lover, too. I wonder a lot (as I'm sure most do) about how if things had been done differently, what the outcomes would have been.

I have 3 nieces (8,5, and 2) and I wonder what it's going to be like for them when they're grown - what kind of a world they will inherit.

I love to read, so it's a priority for me when I have free time, and then I look out the window and see cars rush by, people talking on cell phones, going who knows where, but in a hurry. Missing those little things that make life so much more worthwhile.

I watch as people rush past each other, not even taking notice of their fellow man, and basically not caring. (Not everyone does it, but it's alarming how many do).

I wonder often when I'm visiting the forum, what everyone is like that posts here. Although we are all in different places, we've come together and formed friendships and acquaintances, and made HPotD a touchstone we keep coming back to.

Sure I'll think of more, but these are what came to mind at the moment. Good topic, Mike.

[Tricky]

Operation Sealion (the planned Nazi invasion of england),there is evidence all round where i live of the preparations the government at the time was making to try & stop hitlers troops establishing a beachhead, had they actually committed to it as was planned!there are still concrete glider poles sticking out in rows across the fields,pillboxes & anti-tank obstacles stretching all the way across the coastline & dotted around the outskirts of towns & villages,as well as the remains of artillery positions, army strong points,lookout posts & underground ammo dumps in the woods a few miles from the coast where they would have fired on the invading germans. Thankfully we won the battle of britain & none of it was ever put to use, but it makes me think of how different things could have been & how close this country really came to an invasion!

[Danny]

Operation Sealion (the planned Nazi invasion of england),there is evidence all round where i live of the preparations the government at the time was making to try & stop hitlers troops establishing a beachhead, had they actually committed to it as was planned!there are still concrete glider poles sticking out in rows across the fields,pillboxes & anti-tank obstacles stretching all the way across the coastline & dotted around the outskirts of towns & villages,as well as the remains of artillery positions, army strong points,lookout posts & underground ammo dumps in the woods a few miles from the coast where they would have fired on the invading germans. Thankfully we won the battle of britain & none of it was ever put to use, but it makes me think of how different things could have been & how close this country really came to an invasion!

i live in the middle of the country and theres a few dotted here and there in fields, 50 years on and you can still see the impact of that war.

[Mike70]

Other things that make me wonder, is what was it like to be a "primitive" man in general? To live in a world of magic & terror & wonder? Where the world was infinitely unknown? The final frontier was just over the next hill, and the next, and the next...where the night sky was an endless mystery. Where gods & spirits were real.

that is something i wonder about too. in the case of the cro-magnons, it appears that while their lives were physically demanding (hey, you try hunting ice age megafauna with spears and see what it does to your body) it wasn't all that bad. there was plenty of food to be had, the incidence of serious communicable disease was most likely very low due to a low population density, and their life spans were relatively long.

the more we learn about them the more ridiculous the old ideas of them being brutish and nasty seem. in lots of way the cro-magnons were the first fully modern humans. NOTE: this is a strictly anthropological statement and is in no way intended to be racial in any way, shape or form. it is based on cro-magnon villages, art, the fact that they could weave clothing and cared for their sick and injured, and are believed to have invented the first practical calendar 15,000 years ago.

one of the most amazing things about the cro-magnons is that it appears that there are relict populations that have survived intact to this day- the people who live around dalarna, sweden are almost purely cro-magnon genetically. i find it interesting to note that that dalarna is called the folkloric heart of scandinavia and many of the oldest myths and legends from northern europe come from there.

something else that is interesting about them is that a cro-magnon would've towered over other modern human groups in the world at that time. they were much, much taller - it was very common for a cro-magnon man to reach 6ft 3 or so, at a time when the average human height was about 5ft 3. they would've literally looked like giants to other human groups.

if there is one piece of information about the ancient world i'd like to have it is this: what really happened to the neanderthals? why did they become extinct and our species thrived. the cro-magnons and neanderthals coexisted in europe for over 15,000 years. that is a damn long stretch by any reckoning and doesn't seem to suggest that modern humans purposefully exterminated them.

if i had to bet on an answer it would probably be climate change and a rapid change in food resources. the world started getting damn warmer right about when neanderthals begin to disappear. the megafauna they hunted and depended on were dying off rapidly because of the change in climate as well. modern humans were probably quicker to adapt to the new climate and changing food resources.

[MaximusIncredulous]

Operation Sealion (the planned Nazi invasion of england),there is evidence all round where i live of the preparations the government at the time was making to try & stop hitlers troops establishing a beachhead, had they actually committed to it as was planned!there are still concrete glider poles sticking out in rows across the fields,pillboxes & anti-tank obstacles stretching all the way across the coastline & dotted around the outskirts of towns & villages,as well as the remains of artillery positions, army strong points,lookout posts & underground ammo dumps in the woods a few miles from the coast where they would have fired on the invading germans. Thankfully we won the battle of britain & none of it was ever put to use, but it makes me think of how different things could have been & how close this country really came to an invasion!

On a similar note, I wonder how many relics of that war are still waiting to be found in Russia. Just recently I read about a wrecked Soviet Hurricane that was found in a marsh and the pilot was still sitting inside in somewhat ok condition although he was all battered up from impact. The marsh was able to preserve his body to some extent.

[Mike70]

I wonder if we DO make it, how far will we go? Where does our evolution end? (makes me think of the end of Babylon 5, a la the Vorlons)


that's something i've pondered over more than one bowl in my life. as a big B5 fan, even the thought that humans could reach that kind of level is rather awesome. the scene from B5 you are referring to is one of my fav bits ever, be it TV or movie. it's a fucking incredible vision of the ultimate fate of humans.

9SRkjOL3tNM

oh and since you are a B5 fan, JMS has said that the minbari and the brakiri both reach the level of the vorlons but not the narns or centauri - they are "dying" peoples.


http://anthropik.com/wp-content/uploads/paleolitico.png

That one makes me wonder. Who is that guy? What does he represent? Is he to be a shaman in costume? In the stages of shape shifting?

that's a pic that's been puzzling anthropologists for years. personally the shape shifting angle might be one of the better explanations. there is some evidence to suggest that cro-magnon shamans (i keep coming back to them because i am most familiar with them and this pic is from a cro-magnon site) used belladonna and magic mushrooms to enter into a communal state with nature/gods.

belladonna (deadly nightshade) is poisonous as all hell but is also an very, very powerful hallucinogen. a few berries, eaten by an adult, won't kill or endanger you but will make you trip like your at a ken russell film festival. for the record: i've never had the balls to try belladonna as a hallucinogen. it is far too dangerous for a casual or recreational user to mess with but i'd be willing, under expert supervision to give it a whirl.

[MoonSylver]

if there is one piece of information about the ancient world i'd like to have it is this: what really happened to the neanderthals? why did they become extinct and our species thrived. the cro-magnons and neanderthals coexisted in europe for over 15,000 years. that is a damn long stretch by any reckoning and doesn't seem to suggest that modern humans purposefully exterminated them.

I've heard it theorized that one reason may be that even though there weren't the stereotypical "cave man" as far as intelligence goes that one thing their brains may not have been wired for like the cro-mag's was imagination.

The idea being that imagination is a survival trait that we adapted. It allows one to "improvise, adapt, & overcome". It's planning & strategic, long term thinking.

The example they gave was large bird egg shells that had been made into water storage vessels & buried in the ground. To do that requires one to imagine a future in which you might NOT have access to water & to creatively come up with the idea to fabricate a storage container & stash it for later, the kind of thinking it was suggested that the neanderthals might not have been capable of.

For them, it's suggested it was the here & now, you did things they way you'd always done them, & that was it. So supposedly in the face of rapidly changing weather, food, resources, etc they just couldn't change with it based on this.

Like I said, you know a lot more about this stuff than me, but if I got it right, it's an interesting thought. That all of this creativity & imagination, the ability to wonder & puzzle & ponder which at many times can be as much of a curse & a torment as a blessing, could have been a mere evolutionary survival trait, the very one that allowed us to thrive & flourish where the others failed.

[Mike70]

I've heard it theorized that one reason may be that even though there weren't the stereotypical "cave man" as far as intelligence goes that one thing their brains may not have been wired for like the cro-mag's was imagination.

The idea being that imagination is a survival trait that we adapted. It allows one to "improvise, adapt, & overcome". It's planning & strategic, long term thinking.

The example they gave was large bird egg shells that had been made into water storage vessels & buried in the ground. To do that requires one to imagine a future in which you might NOT have access to water & to creatively come up with the idea to fabricate a storage container & stash it for later, the kind of thinking it was suggested that the neanderthals might not have been capable of.

For them, it's suggested it was the here & now, you did things they way you'd always done them, & that was it. So supposedly in the face of rapidly changing weather, food, resources, etc they just couldn't change with it based on this.

Like I said, you know a lot more about this stuff than me, but if I got it right, it's an interesting thought. That all of this creativity & imagination, the ability to wonder & puzzle & ponder which at many times can be as much of a curse & a torment as a blessing, could have been a mere evolutionary survival trait, the very one that allowed us to thrive & flourish where the others failed.

i've heard that theory as well and i think it holds a lot of water. neanderthals were very close to modern humans (they share between 99.5 and 99.8% of our DNA) and while they had speech and higher thought (neanderthals were the first hominids to bury their dead and show some sort of reverence/memory for the dead and that alone suggests some serious higher brain activity), they lacked in the ability to improvise on the spot.

the one problem with that theory is that there is evidence that neanderthals were imitating the cro-magnons. after the arrival of modern humans in western europe, there is a change in neanderthal behaviors. they seem to have been watching and mimicking what they saw modern humans doing ;remember modern humans and neanderthals shared europe for over 15,000 years. in some ways, the imitation makes perfect sense when you consider the awe the neanderthals must've held for cro-magnons, humans who regularly grew to be over 6ft 3 or 4 in height when the neanderthals were like 5 ft 3.

if i had a time machine and a universal translator my first stop would be about 40,000 years when neanderthals and cro-magnons (i hate calling them that since they were fully modern homo sapiens, but it makes it easier for reference sake) first came into contact. i bet the neanderthal reaction was something akin to "holy fuck! look at the size of them."

language is another thing that makes me think. while i am a historian, my wife is a philologist. a philologist is an expert on language, its comparative nature and the way grammar works in language. we are both of the opinion that certain words, common and similar to all indo-european languages, were probably present in the language that the cro-magnons spoke. chief among them would be the words - mother, father, one, ten, in, and on. they wouldn't sound like the english words but after a bit of listening, you'd get it. sort of like if you compare english "father" with latin "pater", german "vater", norwegian "far" or english "mother" with latin "mater", german "mutter" and norwegian "mor." the relationship would become obvious.

this all leads me back to something i said earlier: if you ever get a chance to participate in DNA study, do it. i've been around and among academics for many years now and that's how i ended giving up some DNA. i've had both my celluar DNA, which you inherit from both parents and mitochondrial DNA sequenced as parts of larger studies. funny the things you can discover. while my cellular DNA, from both parents, had every marker on it that i was descended and/or from the british isles, my mitochondrial DNA, which is inherited only from your mother (and therefore allows family relationships to be charted over immense periods of time) indicates, nay screamed out "italian" when it was sequenced. i shared a common ancestor with one other person in the study 1,500 -2,000 years ago (he/she remains anonymous as is his/her right but whoever he/she is lives in the north of england, where my family came from before emigrating to america). i was disappointed when the other person choose to remain under the radar because for whatever strange reason, i'd love to meet them. i'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that if the mitochondrial DNA of the 100 or so most active members on this board were sequenced, common female ancestors would start showing up relatively soon, time wise. maybe 1,000-2,000 years apart, hell might even be sooner.

though 2,000 years is nothing. mitochondrial DNA studies have established links, common female ancestors, among people as far back as 35,000 years.


this all reminds of something else i've pondered over many a bowl in my life: we are the sum total of everyone who has come before us. the cro-magnons we've been discussing, if you are from europe you are carrying part of them with you in your DNA. every single direct ancestor back to your great times whatever grandparent is present inside you in some way and is still alive. since i have children, i find that a somewhat comforting thought...

[ProfessorChaos]

having seen more dead people than your average bear, some of these people dying quite violently, i quite often wonder about death and mortality. one person i know of died so quickly and in such an extreme fashion that doctors said he probably didn't even know what hit him. what a trip,huh?

this is a pretty morbid thought, i realize, but given that we are all members of a forum dedicated to films that center around the dead returning to life, i imagine others have surely pondered about the unknown aspect of what becomes of us when we die...

sorry to blow anyone's day or anything...i guess i just have a fatalistic viewpoint at times given some of my experiences. but overall, i think this makes me a better person, allowing me to appreciate life more.

[Mike70]

having seen more dead people than your average bear, some of these people dying quite violently, i quite often wonder about death and mortality. one person i know of died so quickly and in such an extreme fashion that doctors said he probably didn't even know what hit him. what a trip,huh?

this is a pretty morbid thought, i realize, but given that we are all members of a forum dedicated to films that center around the dead returning to life, i imagine others have surely pondered about the unknown aspect of what becomes of us when we die...

sorry to blow anyone's day or anything...i guess i just have a fatalistic viewpoint at times given some of my experiences. but overall, i think this makes me a better person, allowing me to appreciate life more.

i can totally relate. i saw things in the army i wish i could erase from my memory but like the book says "once something's in your head, it's in there forever."

funny how we see death in such an antiseptic, prepared for viewing manner isn't it? when you see what actual death looks like up close, it almost doesn't register in your mind as real, like you are expecting soft music and a funeral director to come out of the shadows somewhere.

i was in somalia from dec 92 until early jun 93, long before the whole "black hawk down" fracas but it was still a violent, chaotic place. the thing i still can't get over, even 16 going on 17 years later is how fucking cheap those people considered life to be and how blase they were about throwing it away. totally crazy. any fucking animalistic moron can go out and die for a "cause." the real question, the one that separates humans from animals is "do you have anything worth living for?" it's that attempt to live, you might die defending whatever it is you care about but it's that willingness to fight to live, not to die that makes all the difference in the world.

i am sure none of the american, canadian, and british kids who were killed at normandy wanted to die or thought their death was going to buy them virgins in paradise or any other such fucking nonsense. they did it and gave up their lives because ultimately they had something to live for.

[Crappingbear]

Well, if I did this download thang correct you will see an ancient Indian Petroglyp from New Mexico that is supposed to be a bear (obviously my fav) but looks more like the Exorcist demon from the movie. Its from 3 rivers in NM and cool as hell as its on a mountain top where the Indians hung out and drew stuff. I took the photos, not from the net.

[mista_mo]

hate to post a mo' comment, but when im in the bathroom i consider infinity.

why would you hate to post a mo comment :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

also, When I view photographs of people, especially ones that died, or are from some long ago time, I tend to think just as you did when you saw that picture of the hand print on the wall.

I want to know who they were, what they liked, what they did...what was goign through their minds as the picture was taken, and what not..I dunno, I get nostalgic looking at pictures, even ones that have people I have never known. Just makes me think back to older times, when I was a kid.

I have always wondered what my first thought was as a baby..what my first words were, what scared me the most, how i reacted to physical stimulus and just how i acted at that age...

[Tricky]

On a similar note, I wonder how many relics of that war are still waiting to be found in Russia. Just recently I read about a wrecked Soviet Hurricane that was found in a marsh and the pilot was still sitting inside in somewhat ok condition although he was all battered up from impact. The marsh was able to preserve his body to some extent.

thats pretty interesting!theres all sorts waiting to be found in the russian forests & marshes,theres a rumour running around various AFV forums that a Tiger 1 has been found in a marsh,it'll be interesting to see if its true as there are only around 8 known ones of them left in the world out of around 1300 built!and only one of them is in running condition (which ive had a climb about on :D)

[Philly_SWAT]

this thread can go anywhere, anywhere at all. i am interested in the kinds of things that give you a bit of pause in your everyday life and cause you to wonder.
Well, this is certainly an interesting thread, and one that would be difficult for me to answer, for I am constantly thinking of all kinds of things, from the inane to the complex. I have a hard time shutting my mind off. I have always had a hard time getting to sleep, because as I lay down, my mind is still actively thinking about something. The easiest way I have found is to be totally exhausted when I lay down, which makes it easier to fall asleep.

One of the things I find myself thinking about sometimes is this..I wonder if mankind will ever figure out .."new ways of thinking" about things. Just because things have always been one way doesnt mean it wouldnt be better to go another way. One example I think of is cities. Without going into too much detail, suffice it to say that cities originated in random ways. Generally located near bodies of water, they grew in random and haphazard fashion. There was no master design to them (usually), and where stuff ended up being built was based on simple ideas (such as "there is iron in that mountain, lets build a mine there". Then stores and houses popped up near the mine. etc). I can not blame man for not thinking ahead, how would they really know to. Centuries in the past, people had to literally think about how they were going to eat tomorrow more so than we do nowadays. Many of our big cities have crumbling infrastructures. While I am not suggesting to just let them turn into rubble, I think we would be smart to start building new cities that have more intelligent design to them. We have plenty of wide open spaces available.

My general thoughts are this..have industrial, commercial and residential layed out in ways that make it condusive to mass transportation. One reason MT is frowned upon by some is the inconvience. The trains,buses, etc., dont take you exactly where you want to go, they cant go EVERYWHERE, so there is a lot of walking involved. Here is a pic of my general thought...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/Philly_SWAT/layout.jpg
Put all the industrial in the center of the community. Safety/pollution concerns would have to be addressed, but that still has to be addressed now. But this puts the production, i.e jobs, in a central location for all. Have commercial around the center. Now there is a short distance from production center to where the goods will be sold. Put housing outside of this. Have train systems that go around the commercial areas...lots of trains, all sharing the same track. Not high power, super fast trains, but slower moving ones, designed to stop every few blocks or so. Have buses that travel throughout the residential area in logical fashion, bringing people to the central commercial train area, as well as into the industrial area. By definition, everyone would be within easy reach to their jobs and their shopping by public transportation. Energy use would be minimized, better for the environment, etc. Have landfills,power plants, water treatment, etc, on the outskirts. I could go into much more detail, but thats it in a nutshell. This is one of the things I think about.

[Mike70]

thats pretty interesting!theres all sorts waiting to be found in the russian forests & marshes,theres a rumour running around various AFV forums that a Tiger 1 has been found in a marsh,it'll be interesting to see if its true as there are only around 8 known ones of them left in the world out of around 1300 built!and only one of them is in running condition (which ive had a climb about on :D)

aren't there a few accidents (some fatal) a year in russia, parts of poland and germany due to WWII era artillery shells and bombs accidentally being dug up in construction projects?

[Neil]

I wonder if we DO make it, how far will we go? Where does our evolution end? (makes me think of the end of Babylon 5, a la the Vorlons)

I find this question depressing...

As a child you imagine with 10-20 yrs man will be on mars and flying around jupiter, and then not too long after discovering and exploring alien worlds with life, possibly intelligent.

Then as you grow up you realise how incredibly slow the rate of progress is, and worse still that we may be up against a clock:-
1) Will global warming put an end to our current civilization?
2) Will some other global catastrophe put an end to it? Super volcanoe? Asteroid? Magnetic poles swapping?
3) Will we ever meet/hear from an alien intelligence? - The universe is so massively big and not very friendly.

We will go to the grave most likely:-
1) Never having received an alien transmission. And even if we do, we know that was it... We won't be around for the rest of the conversation. (each transmission will take tens, hundreds, thousands of years)
2) We may start seeing the signs begin for the end of our civilization - Global warming may be true, and we certainly ain't doing enough to stop it.

[LoSTBoY]

Here is a movie I think you would LOVE Mike, "The Man From Earth" it's about a going away part for a professor who asks, as an intellectual exercise, of his colleagues the question, what if a cro-magnon man who didn't age continued to live & thrive until modern day. Who would he be? Through the course of the conversation they begin to suspect HE may be the subject of their conversation. What follows is a great discussion that touches on science, philosophy, religion, metaphysics, etc, etc. It's a science fiction movie w/ no special effects, explosions, robots, etc. It basically is a one act play, all takes place in one cabin in real time & is just a bunch of people sitting around talking. And it's utterly fascinating. Can't recommend it enough. Great cast too, including Tony Todd. If you like things that make you wonder & think, this is it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_From_Earth

Agreed, this is an excellent move. The acting is not much but the story is really good. Recommended to all.

[SymphonicX]

Good idea for a thread, and one that I'm totally stumped for an idea. Recently I've not been the happiest chap, having come back from a blinding holiday to tons of stress and of course, the weather, general money worries etc...

As a result I've not actually stopped to appreciate, or felt the need to marvel at anything. I'd even go as far to say that it's not even about that, it's closer to me not actually respecting anything...like I look at those beautiful sunsets that sometimes catch my eye and think "fuck it". I see the innocence of the world sometimes, but can't keep that thought with me...all I seem to see recently is more demonstrations of pure, unabated ugliness and fuck...it feels like I'm swallowed up in it. I felt like I've reached a moments of great realisation...an epiphany...but the conclusion is cynical...I mean life IS beautiful, and it really can be...but if you look at it objectively...it's not. And never has been...well...not since the dawn of humanity it hasn't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...if we got rid of all the people...things might be better.

[Tricky]

abandoned buildings always make me think,especially ones that have been empty for a good few decades!i always start thinking about what the building was like when it was new,what it was used for,how it will have been bustling with the people who worked or lived there at one point,and what happened for it to become abandoned,and who the last person was to switch the lights out before it became an empty shell.This can range from anything,abandoned factories,hospitals,military installations,houses,medieval castles & monastaries etc,it fascinates me!i can waste hours trawling through urban exploration sites or sometimes exploring places like that in person

[Mr. Beakman]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Pech_Merle_main.jpg/429px-Pech_Merle_main.jpg

this always makes me think about the guy painted around his hand. what was his name? what did he do in his tribe? was he important or just a young man screwing around. i also wonder about the fact that the haplogroup my blood type belongs to (i've participated in a couple of mitochondrial DNA studies by simply swabbing my mouth for cheek cells - the results were fascinating) originated in southern france and northern italy, did one of my ancestors belong to this guy's tribe or live near them.




Man, you guys are all pretty deep. I was just wondering why he never finished the turkey.

[3pidemiC]

I often wonder about non-existence. Such as what happens if there is no afterlife. The thought of you not existing in any form is very weird.

Also, I often think about life 500-600 years ago. In the US, there was nothing here. Seriously, Native American tribes were sparsely populating small areas but that was it. It's amazing how much our civilization has advanced in such a small amount of time, considering the age of the earth.

[MoonSylver]

Man, you guys are all pretty deep. I was just wondering why he never finished the turkey.

:lol:


I often wonder about non-existence. Such as what happens if there is no afterlife. The thought of you not existing in any form is very wierd.

That one is one that I oddly feel sorta comfortable about...I usually think of the old chestnut "energy can never be created nor destroyed, it only changes forms"...my thought is that since all of our neural activity is electrical in nature (energy) that when we die & that electrical activity ceases & all of that stored energy ("the soul") dissipates that it returns back to it's source (god?). This makes sense to me in a context of if god is everywhere & everything (the universe/all of creation) then we are a part of god, god is a part of us & when we die we return to/meld with/become a part of that source.

This lends itself well to the concept of reincarnation as well, as we die & are born that energy is constantly returning to & splitting off from that source energy.

What I DON'T think the afterlife is is fat babies with wings strumming a ukulele on a cloud or whatever. ;)


Also, I often think about life 500-600 years ago. In the US, there was nothing here. Seriously, Native American tribes were sparsely populating small areas but that was it. It's amazing how much our civilization has advanced in such a small amount of time, considering the age of the earth.

I would love to see this country before it got "civilized":(

[ProfessorChaos]

i got released from active duty four years ago this month, and in honor of the occasion, i've recently called a few friends from my days in the corps to see what they've been up to.

anyway, i just found out that one guy i knew died in a drinking and driving crash almost immediately after he got out (about a year before i did, so about 5 years ago now)....odd that it's been that long since the days when we spent all week training and all weekend at the beach getting hammered and picking up on officer's daughters...i kinda always remembered him in that way, since all he wanted to do during his last six months in was spend every weekend on the beach getting shit-faced and chasing tail...

"Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years? Six? It seems like a lifetime, the kind of peak that never comes again."

anywho, this made me reflect upon how lucky i am for numerous reasons, most importantly the fact that i'm alive and healthy, something i think many (including myself) take for granted...anyone ever have an incident similar to this where you're cruising along without a care in the world, then something comes along and floors you and makes you realize how fortunate you really are?

[Mike70]

I would love to see this country before it got "civilized":(

yep. moreover, i'd like to see ohio before it got "civilized." walk a bit with the Miami (every other thing in SW ohio is named for them) and the Shawnee. i'd probably end up telling them that there is a storm coming that you cannot weather nor can you survive intact. you will be swept away and one day, you will be only a memory remembered in place names and in stories of what ohio once was. morose i know but the truth is often morose.

i'd also like to meet the folks who built this:
http://1111singswithravens.com/images/serpent_mound.jpg

this is a pic of the great serpent mound in adams county, if you've been there you know how fooking cool it is.


jared, yep i've had a similar experience. instead of death, i found out that one of my closest friends in the army had become a bandit in mexico with his own nickname! damn was i surprised. the paths that life takes us down sometimes are twisted and weird.

[MoonSylver]

yep. moreover, i'd like to see ohio before it got "civilized." walk a bit with the Miami (every other thing in SW ohio is named for them) and the Shawnee. i'd probably end up telling them that there is a storm coming that you cannot weather nor can you survive intact. you will be swept away and one day, you will be only a memory remembered in place names and in stories of what ohio once was. morose i know but the truth is often morose.

Here's one along those lines: being an Ohioan & as knowledgeable in history as you are, you already know the whole story of Tecumseh. I often wonder, what if his plan to unite the tribes had succeeded? Would history be different if a unified Indian nations had driven out the early whites? Or was or coming unavoidable. (BTW I LOVE the outdoor drama & have been several times. I know it's not great history, but it's s fun experience. Go early, take the back stage tour, have the dinner, the whole spiel...great family fun.)



jared, yep i've had a similar experience. instead of death, i found out that one of my closest friends in the army had become a bandit in mexico with his own nickname! damn was i surprised. the paths that life takes us down sometimes are twisted and weird.

:stunned:

I went to school with a guy who I was great friends with when I first moved to Ohio, until I found out how weird he was & distanced myself. A few years back (through some internet detective work) I found out he was doing 5-25 in state corrections for rape. :stunned: Did 20 & got out a few years ago & is on parole & a registered sex offender. Saw his prison pics & his subsequent parole pic's...:eek:, the years & the joint were NOT kind...

[Mike70]

Here's one along those lines: being an Ohioan & as knowledgeable in history as you are, you already know the whole story of Tecumseh. I often wonder, what if his plan to unite the tribes had succeeded? Would history be different if a unified Indian nations had driven out the early whites? Or was or coming unavoidable. (BTW I LOVE the outdoor drama & have been several times. I know it's not great history, but it's s fun experience. Go early, take the back stage tour, have the dinner, the whole spiel...great family fun.)

bro, i've gone one better than that, i've stood in the very spot where tecumseh gave the speeches that roused the tribes in ohio to war. weird when i think that my ancestors (my family has been in northern ky and sw ohio since about 1790 or so) probably helped to destroy the shawnee and the miami and eradicate indians from ohio for good.

i don't think anything could've been done at that point. by the time the indians were forced into exile from ohio, whites were so numerous on the eastern seaboard that whatever the indians would've done, it would've been in vain. besides, technology and organization trumps just about everything.

it's still sad though. the shawnee and miami, after whom so much in ohio is named are almost extinct. there are only about 8,000 shawnee left in exile in fucking oklahoma of all places and the miami population comes to a grand total of about 3,500 - in exile in oklahoma like the shawnee and pretty much without hope of return to ohio.

[MoonSylver]

bro, i've gone one better than that, i've stood in the very spot where tecumseh gave the speeches that roused the tribes in ohio to war.

Very cool.


i don't think anything could've been done at that point. by the time the indians were forced into exile from ohio, whites were so numerous on the eastern seaboard that whatever the indians would've done, it would've been in vain. besides, technology and organization trumps just about everything.

Agreed. For some reason I just WONDER about it though. I guess I feel like we would've DESERVED to get our asses kicked out. When I think of our whole history with the Native American's it gives me a bad case of white man's guilt.:confused:


it's still sad though. the shawnee and miami, after whom so much in ohio is named are almost extinct. there are only about 8,000 shawnee left in exile in fucking oklahoma of all places and the miami population comes to a grand total of about 3,500 - in exile in oklahoma like the shawnee and pretty much without hope of return to ohio.

Sad indeed. I was pretty stoked a few years ago when I was hearing the Shawnee were suing for tribal/reservation land here in Ohio & was hearing it looked likely, but now not? Not clear on the specifics, but would be awesome if true.

[Mike70]

Sad indeed. I was pretty stoked a few years ago when I was hearing the Shawnee were suing for tribal/reservation land here in Ohio & was hearing it looked likely, but now not? Not clear on the specifics, but would be awesome if true.

actually what they were suing for in all truth was land to build casinos on. that may sound callous but it is the truth. the city of lima tried to cede land to the shawnee but a judge ruled, quite rightfully, that the lima city council has no right whatsoever to cede territory in ohio to what would amount to another sovereign entity nor does it have the right to violate ohio law which bans all casino type gambling for profit in the state (something i am totally in favor of-fuck casinos in ohio). the shawnee were trying to pursue a claim under the 1988 Indian Gaming and Regulatory act, which is dubious in its legality in regards to state's rights anyway. ohio is one of the states that has taken a stand against that act and said basically, "fuck this. our state doesn't want nor need casino gambling be it by indians or anyone else. this is a violation of state's rights (which it is)." ohio got around it by citing the treaty of 1831, the treaty of wapakoneta (which is still in force) in which the shawnee ceded all lands in ohio to the ohio legislature in return for 100,000 acres of land west of the mississippi.

if the shawnee want to return to ohio to live that is fine by me and i say more power to them but if their only interest in their "ancestral lands" is wanting to build shitty ass casinos here, they can keep their asses in oklahoma.

[MoonSylver]

Mmmm...true that. Somebody shoved a petition in my face at a local fair about ago to "create jobs in Ohio". When I questioned what it was about, they fessed up it was to get the casino bill on the ballot for the elections. I shoulda pimp slapped that bitch right on the spot.:mad: