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View Full Version : 300 re-re-re-revisited...



Mike70
14-Feb-2009, 03:50 AM
as i said in the shoutbox, i watched this yet again and while i think it is a piece of crap, it is a glorious piece of crap with some redeeming value.

first off - i understand it is based on a comic. i understand that frank miller wasn't trying to tell history but was attempting to tell a story about the west triumphing over the east (as it always must or else we are all fucked).

i still maintain that the events at thermopylae were heroic, epic and awe inspring enough. they don't need any embellishment. the thing that kills this movie for me in many places is when people open their mouths. the lines in the film are so overblown, so purple as to be almost embarrassing to listen to.

but the battle scenes are epic and like i said above i love the theme of the film. the idealism of the west trumping the totalitarianism and despotism of the east is an important concept and something that needs to be transmitted to people, no matter what the medium or manner.

i saw the film in a bit of new light. it is about the liberal ideas of greece (and later rome) winning out against all odds against tyranny and servitude to a tyrant. and yes, all you folks who fancy yourselves as conservatives but believe in things like freedom of speech, expression, civic militarism, the right of voting, the right of representation in govt., the idea that a citizen has certain rights that cannot be taken away from them; all these are LIBERAL ideas first formulated in the ancient world.

so while i enjoy the tone of the movie, you gotta rejoice that it isn't some 90s era piece of shit that is trying to make us all feel guilty because we are european, the writing leaves me less than impressed but the action is first rate.

my final bitch: why call dilios dilios? why not just call him aristodemus. that was the name of the spartan sent back by leonidas because he had an eye infection (not because he was wounded as in the movie). aristodemus was considered a coward by the spartans, even though he was sent back by leonidas. he later redeemed himself, somewhat, at the battle of plataea by his almost berserker like behavior.

the battle of plataea is where 300 ends, that charge of the entire spartan army with the whole allied greek army at its back. that was one of the biggest blood baths in history and is where the persians were driven from greece and the west forever, after the athenian navy had crushed the persians at salamis. the following numbers are modern estimates: 40,000 greeks (almost 10,000 spartans and 30,000 allied greek troops from athens, plataea, tegea, megara and corinth (the biggest contributors) totally and completely slaughtered a persian army that may have been as many as 120,000 men. from the historical sources we have the tegeans and spartans went completely blood mad during the battle and cut the persians to shreds without mercy.

the battle of plataea really needs its own movie. in fact a tetraology of flicks would be cool - marathon (where athens and plataea faced off alone with persia and kicked its ass), thermopylae, salamis and plataea.

AcesandEights
14-Feb-2009, 04:20 AM
it is a glorious piece of crap with some redeeming value.

^ Here's where you lost me.

bassman
14-Feb-2009, 10:02 PM
As I've always said.....The visuals of 300 are fantastic but it fails in every other category. But at least the visuals help it one-up Dawn04, IMO.

I'm really looking forward to Watchmen. He may finally redeem himself. If he fucks up one of the greatest novels of all time I will probably write him off completely.:p

And I would like to throw this out there. If he's such a great artist as some people claim....why has he brought nothing original to the table?

Mike70
15-Feb-2009, 05:21 AM
the one part of 300 i really do dig is when xerxes is threatening leonidas and telling him "i will erase the name of sparta and leonidas. i will make it punishable by death to utter your names."

well, fuck a doodle-doo if xerxes didn't get pwned. what happened at thermopylae will most likely live on forever in western culture (as it should) and xerxes will be remembered as little more than a tyrant who got served a very, very cold dish that he richly deserved - not only at thermopylae but at salamis and plataea and that western idealism triumphed over the idiotic and despotic east; and like his dickhead father darius before him (who got his ass totally kicked by athens and plataea at the battle of marathon), he is the subject of ridicule and derision.

also, another one of the parts of 300 that's made me re-examine it is the line near the end where a spartan reaches out his hand to leonidas and says "it's an honor to die at your side." and leonidas grasps his hand and replies: "it's an honor to have lived at yours." that sentiment to me is the essence of western liberalism and culture. we don't want to die for anything, but we are willing to fight to the death to live for the things we hold dear.

if you really want to read about the spartans, read the accounts of the battle of plataea. the last of the great battles in the persian-greek wars. the entire spartan army was there and along with the tegeans, went completely blood mad and ripped through the persians like tissue paper, while the athenians, megarans, and plataeans dealt with the greek collaborators - thebes being chief among them and i've always been surprised that thebes was allowed to exist after such a betrayal.
sFOl-QXpLc4

then again, the battle of marathon is just as awe inspiring from a historical point of view. athens and plataea facing the entire persian army alone and winning out in the end.

i'll share this cool tidbit of history with y'all: this is the very helmet worn by the athenian general miltiades at marathon. the inscripton on it which is barely legible in the photo says: miltiades dedicates this to zeus. this was discovered at the temple complex to zeus at olympia and is, in my opinion, one of the most rightly revered objects in western history.

http://www.uned.es/geo-1-historia-antigua-universal/helmetMilt.jpg

strayrider
15-Feb-2009, 07:30 AM
i saw the film in a bit of new light. it is about the liberal ideas of greece (and later rome) winning out against all odds against tyranny and servitude to a tyrant. and yes, all you folks who fancy yourselves as conservatives but believe in things like freedom of speech, expression, civic militarism, the right of voting, the right of representation in govt., the idea that a citizen has certain rights that cannot be taken away from them; all these are LIBERAL ideas first formulated in the ancient world.

Classical Liberalism is alright by me. By this definition, I am a Classical Liberal, by modern standards; Liberal Conservative. However, in modern understanding (by the masses) the terms liberal and conservative seemed to have flip-flopped and become an awful, muddy mess.

It is the main reason that I beat a hasty retreat from the two party system in America (not running from it like a whipped dog, but in a calculated retreat with "shield" and "spear" facing forward).

And, I agree with you concerning "300", basically a good film, but man it was corny and lame in so many places.

:D

-stray-

Mike70
15-Feb-2009, 07:44 AM
And, I agree with you concerning "300", basically a good film, but man it was corny and lame in so many places.

yep, i love the sentiment but the purple prose and completely overblown speeches are a bit much. just let me see greeks slaughtering persians and i'd get what the film maker/writer was trying to say.

i've said it before and will say it again: if the ideas of western liberalism don't always come out on top over the despotism, idiocy and centrist thinking of the east, we are all seriously fucked. every single idea that makes western liberal democracy (or the republican form of govt. if you will) special comes from greece and rome. period. the idea of individual representation in govt., the idea of individual rights, the idea of individual voting, the idea that a citizen has rights that cannot be taken away from them, the idea that you have a right to defend yourself against criminal accusations through representation, the idea of civic militarism, etc. - all of these are western ideas and are what makes western culture stand out.

strayrider
15-Feb-2009, 08:52 AM
i've said it before and will say it again: if the ideas of western liberalism don't always come out on top over the despotism, idiocy and centrist thinking of the east, we are all seriously fucked. every single idea that makes western liberal democracy (or the republican form of govt. if you will) special comes from greece and rome. period. the idea of individual representation in govt., the idea of individual rights, the idea of individual voting, the idea that a citizen has rights that cannot be taken away from them, the idea that you have a right to defend yourself against criminal accusations through representation, the idea of civic militarism, etc. - all of these are western ideas and are what makes western culture stand out.

Well, yeah.

The problem in America today is that so many people immigrate from places where the "eastern" way of looking at things taints their view of how the "west" should do business.

My biggest problem with people, in general, is how they've adapted a submissive role in regards to what makes them "good citizens". Heck, I could even extrapolate this to include many folks that I might otherwise include in my camp as "allies".

Even my basic philosophy of "do unto others" seems to have been perverted somewhere along the line. Some people like pain ...

What's a poor dog to do except hunker down behind his/her own private barricade and wait for some anal sphincter heavy nitwit to "cross the line"?

:D

-stray-