WATCHMEN - MZ's epic rant about said movie...

[MinionZombie]

http://deadshed.blogspot.com/2009/03/watchmen-epic-rant.html

It's a long one alright, one of my longest rants ever perhaps. As I've only seen the movie, and not yet read the GN, consider this a work-in-progress musing. :)

Annnnnnd ... discuss. :cool:

[AcesandEights]

So this is a rant and not a review? ;)

I'll read it this evening, probably. Will definitely get back to you with details.

[MinionZombie]

It's both rant and review.

I have full-on rants, and then I have rants where it's just me talking for ages as there's so much to say...:)

[AcesandEights]

It's both rant and review.

:stunned:


it's just me talking for ages as there's so much to say...:)

Dayum, MZ! I just took a quick look at your blog entry and all that scrolling on my mouse wheel to get to the bottom of the page has severely weakened that finger. It might be a sprain. ;)

[bassman]

Now you've just got to witness the sheer bad-assery that is the novel. Not that the movie is bad, but the novel is leaps and bounds ahead of the film.

I give Snyder the benefit of the doubt because although 300 isn't as great as some make it out to be, it was an enjoyable film. Dawn04 was an okay action film while raping the original, and Watchmen is definitely his best adaptation yet. Notice how I said adaptation instead of piece of work or something? That's my point(pretty much the same as you)....he's a "looks pretty" director but can't seem to reach other grounds. I suppose that's why he's hit it off so well with today's audiences because they just want something that looks cool, has blood, and slow motion.

That being said...he's not the worst director out there. I was really hoping he would REALLY come into his own with Watchmen and make it truly outstanding, but instead it was just okay, imo. Now he really needs to try his hand at an original work instead of another adaptation(which I seem to remember reading that his next film is ANOTHER adaptation.:rolleyes:)

Oh and I totally agree about just not liking him by looking at him. Everytime I see him I just want to hit him. My wife agrees too. He looks like a big flopping wet douche bag.

[MoonSylver]

Annnnnnd ... discuss. :cool:

In a word...yep.

Only thing I can add is TDK may still be your #1 superhero movie, but Watchmen WOULD have been if it'd been do-able to translate the book ONE HUNDRED PERCENT to the screen. It really is that good. And as faithful as the movie is, the book it ain't. Through no fault of anyone, mind you, it IS really unfilmable as is. THe movie is the best possible compromise, but it IS compromise. Unavoidable.


Now you've just got to witness the sheer bad-assery that is the novel. Not that the movie is bad, but the novel is leaps and bounds ahead of the film.

HEAR HEAR!!!!!


I give Snyder the benefit of the doubt because although 300 isn't as great as some make it out to be, it was an enjoyable film. Dawn04 was an okay action film while raping the original, and Watchmen is definitely his best adaptation yet. Notice how I said adaptation instead of piece of work or something? That's my point(pretty much the same as you)....he's a "looks pretty" director but can't seem to reach other grounds. I suppose that's why he's hit it off so well with today's audiences because they just want something that looks cool, has blood, and slow motion.

Indeed.


That being said...he's not the worst director out there. I was really hoping he would REALLY come into his own with Watchmen and make it truly outstanding, but instead it was just okay, imo. Now he really needs to try his hand at an original work instead of another adaptation(which I seem to remember reading that his next film is ANOTHER adaptation.:rolleyes:)

Agreed & agreed.


Oh and I totally agree about just not liking him by looking at him. Everytime I see him I just want to hit him. My wife agrees too. He looks like a big flopping wet douche bag.

He's got that Seth Green/Jamie Kennedy nu-metal-hip-hoppity-boppity-hyperkinetic-ADD-fanboy vibe going to me (says the crusty old fart yelling at kids to get off his lawn...)

[ProfessorChaos]

zack snyder's next project is supposed to be called army of the dead, and is said to be based off of a short-story he wrote.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993840/

uh...didn't catch watchmen, not really big on comic book movies....so i'll leave now.:D

[bassman]

zack snyder's next project is supposed to be called army of the dead, and is said to be based off of a short-story he wrote.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993840/

uh...didn't catch watchmen, not really big on comic book movies....so i'll leave now.:D

But he's not directing.:rockbrow::shifty:

There must be another comic that he must "translate" to the screen instead of actually creating something.:rolleyes:

[MinionZombie]

But he's not directing.:rockbrow::shifty:

There must be another comic that he must "translate" to the screen instead of actually creating something.:rolleyes:
And the guy directing Army of the Dead is also directing the pishing remake of The Thing. :mad:

As for Snyder's up-coming stuff as director:

# Cobalt 60 (2011) (announced)
# Heavy Metal (2010) (announced)
# The Illustrated Man (2010) (announced)
# Untitled 300 Sequel (2010) (announced)
# Sucker Punch (2010) (pre-production)
# Guardians of Ga'Hoole (2010) (filming)

[AcesandEights]

That was a pretty interesting read MZ...




Mz's Journal
March 18, 2009

Old lolcat post in forum this morning, little kitten smiling sadly saying "Can I haz cheezbrgr?". This forum is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The threads are extended gutters and the gutters are full of internet memes and when the drains finally scab over, lulz will be had. The accumulated filth of all their dick and fart jokes will foam up about their waists and all the whores and fans of Yawn 04 will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."

They had a choice, all of them. They could have been fans of good movies. Movies made by decent men who believed in making original films. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole entertainment industry stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and Mtv generation teenagers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything new to film.



Read a joke on forum once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says movies nowadays are all utter gash and remakes. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great, visual masterpiece, called “300”, by new visionary director, Zack Snyder, is out in theaters now. Go and see it. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Zack Snyder!" Doctor says “By the way, you have stomach cancer.” Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.



PS--I didn't actually get to read your full review lastnight, or I'd actually have had something to say. Soon, though.

[Skippy911sc]

One thing I notice when reading the Rant/Review was that you manage to take credit away (in some sense) from Snyder for this project because it was a group effort, and give him all the blame for the failures, as you see them. I think when a movie fails it is the directors fault (he/she is the head man/woman) and when the movie is a success credit should also be given to the director. I liked 300 I liked Dawn04, and I really enjoyed Watchmen. I am a very big fan of the original Dawn, but I consider the "remake" to be using the title only. 300 while not historically accurate, it was fun and entertaining...a lot of testosterone in that one. Watchmen was a little bit on the Darkman side, which I loved. Not your everyday super hero movie, and I say bring on the blood and guts!!! I enjoyed your review/rant...keep it up!!!

[bassman]

I think MZ was more addressing the "visionary" thing and how people for whatever reason seem to think he's the next Kubrick or Coppola.

As I said earlier....I give Snyder some points for some things, but he's really starting to label himself as an "inker", if you will. I think the dude could probably pull a great film out of his brain, but keeps doing other people's work.

Let's face it...just about any director could have done Watchmen. Alan Moore already laid out the story. The visuals were just about all Snyder had to contribute. Not that the visuals aren't important, but anybody could have done what he did. The producers say he was chosen as director because he was "the only director that could bring watchmen to the screen", but you and I both know that the only reason they went with Snyder was because they weren't sure a film about Watchmen was profitable and he had just had a hit with 300 so they wanted to replicate that success.

[ProfessorChaos]

And the guy directing Army of the Dead is also directing the pishing remake of The Thing. :mad:

from what i've read, the thing is not a remake, nor a reboot, nor a sequel, but a "companion" film that is going to focus on the group of norweigans who were chasing the dog at the beginning of carpenter's film, and tell their story. kinda like the resident evil 0 game.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/963/963830p1.html


"Well, it's not a remake," he says. "It's really a companion piece to the Carpenter version. We're telling the story of the Norwegian camp that found the Thing before the Kurt Russell group did, so it's very buried in the continuity [and] it's supposed to be the other story that you saw part of. So we didn't want to reinvent it. It was really much the opposite. We really wanted to have this flow seamlessly into what he did."

[clanglee]

I look at the director as the leader of a large team. It's the director's job to get everyone else to do their jobs. He either has a vision of his own, or translates a vision, and then has to get everyone else on board to get as close to that vision as humanly possible. Every movie is a collaberative effort, and in every movie, the Director is the . . .well. . .director of this effort. I believe Snyder succeeds here(and in his other movies imo), and deserves the credit for a job well done. Many other directors have attempted this material, and the movie never got off the ground. Could only Snyder do this? Probably not. . . but he DID do it, and therefore gets the credit for pulling it all together. If the movie outright sucked. . everyone would have been hell bent on blaming Snyder. So when the movie succeeds. . it's because of the other people in the film? :confused:


from what i've read, the thing is not a remake, nor a reboot, nor a sequel, but a "companion" film that is going to focus on the group of norweigans who were chasing the dog at the beginning of carpenter's film, and tell their story. kinda like the resident evil 0 game.
."

hurm. . . interesting. . .


Oh and Aces. . . . :lol: :lol:

[MinionZombie]

but he's really starting to label himself as an "inker"

hehe, interesting Chasing Amy style take on him there. :)

I don't think I was specifically just labelling the faults on Snyder, I wasn't labelling them on anyone really - but was just addressing all this "Snyder did the whole friggin' thing!" - which for an adaptation that's taken two decades to show up, isn't really suitable - hence the collaborative effort - especially as it starts at Moore's work, then it's adapted, then Snyder points people around - but while staying so faithful, he's again not shown if he has anything real to offer folk from himself.

As for the visuals - Snyder used the GN itself as essentially storyboards, he himself said so - so again, it may be really faithful (and good for that too), but it's not creative, and really ... anyone could do that basically.

Also - I think the two main reasons that Watchmen was finally allowed to be made:

1) CGI was up to the required standard to produce the visuals necessary, and help provide the scope of the source text.
2) Comic book movies are a relatively recent success on a mass box office scale.

Snyder didn't sit on his ass, and I said so in my rant, but there's nothing bar the mid-shot-slow-mo that suggests it's a Snyder movie. That, as well as other things, factually prove that the "visionary" label attached to him by the marketting department is utterly retarded and factually false.

Aces - lulzorz were indeed had, bravo sir, I had a right chuckle at that, especially this bit:

The accumulated filth of all their dick and fart jokes will foam up about their waists and all the whores and fans of Yawn 04 will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
That line in the movie, as growled by Hayley, is chillingly memorable - so it just makes that particular sentence even more amusing to me. :)

...

Prof - aye, I remember reading that vague outline on Bloody Disgusting a while back I think - and I think it's a pointless idea. It'll be like Tremors 4 - the first movie all over again - WHY is it needed? It'll just be The Thing, but with Norwegians speaking copious amounts of American-English. :rolleyes::p

[MoonSylver]

Mz's Journal
March 18, 2009

Old lolcat post in forum this morning, little kitten smiling sadly saying "Can I haz cheezbrgr?". This forum is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The threads are extended gutters and the gutters are full of internet memes and when the drains finally scab over, lulz will be had. The accumulated filth of all their dick and fart jokes will foam up about their waists and all the whores and fans of Yawn 04 will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."

They had a choice, all of them. They could have been fans of good movies. Movies made by decent men who believed in making original films. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole entertainment industry stands on the brink, staring down into bloody Hell, all those liberals and intellectuals and Mtv generation teenagers... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything new to film.



Read a joke on forum once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says movies nowadays are all utter gash and remakes. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great, visual masterpiece, called “300”, by new visionary director, Zack Snyder, is out in theaters now. Go and see it. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But, doctor...I am Zack Snyder!" Doctor says “By the way, you have stomach cancer.” Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

:lol::hyper::lol::hyper::lol:AHAHAHAHA!!!!! That is AWESOME!!! You just made Rorschach smile...

http://s5.tinypic.com/2nltw0n.jpg

:lol::hyper::lol::hyper::lol:

[MinionZombie]

Here's a very interesting 15 minute long review of Watchmen, by BBC film reviewer Mark Kermode (superb critic, by the way):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/entertainment/a2z/rams/watchmen.ram

(Open with Real Media Player)

Lots of interesting ideas and comments. I'll say it again - this dude should be presenting Film 2009, not bleedin' Jonathon Ross.

[vnvnvn2000]

I've seen the movie and I must say it's a masterpiece. I've never seen so much genitalia and action all at once. xD It was one misconception after another, I guess only smart people can watch a movie like this, since everyone thinks it sucks.

[AcesandEights]

Kids who are afraid of male genitalia aside, I thought I'd pop in and just say...Yes, I've finally finished reading your review MZ (and I started reading that sucker last month!!1!11!).

I'll just say, MZ, that I could tell you were struggling through your hate of ZS to be somewhat balanced in your review and it was a valiant fight you put up and as someone who liked the movie, I do appreciate it. You made some decent points, though--personally--I don't mind the music so much, as a lot of the music used in the film was referenced in the books and even when it was jarring, it often got my attention and after the fact I found myself thinking about the scenes.

I agree with Bassman that Snyder is settling for (or perhaps only capable of, or happy with) being an "inker", though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. People can do cool things within their limitations, especially on a commercial basis and still do a fine job, while not approaching the true geniuses of their field--that's what most people earning a living wage in a creative/artistic field end up doing, in my opinion.

[MinionZombie]

I'll just say, MZ, that I could tell you were struggling through your hate of ZS to be somewhat balanced in your review and it was a valiant fight you put up and as someone who liked the movie, I do appreciate it.

Glad you appreciate the effort. :D

The music wasn't a major issue, but it did feel very music video-ey when it came up. Sometimes it was jarring, other times it fit, sometimes the music became too centre stage - and well, ZS is a music video director, so I guess no wonder if can at times feel like a music video (sometimes a little, sometimes a lot).

hehe, aye, it was a right old rant so it was, eh? :)

Mind you - even Banksy (that was Jason Lee's character's name, right?) in Chasing Amy went beyond being an "inker" and did "Baby Dave" all on his own. ;)

...

Also - what a weird spambot - clearly an actual person, but they were promoting contact lenses ... how odd, they're so often 'bots' ... I guess we were treated to "the personal touch" this time, eh? :p

[AcesandEights]

Yes...yes...I can agree that there were some music video moments. For example, I still like the use of Hendrix for the one scene...but it caught me off guard and I totally get how it doesn't fit for some people.




Also - what a weird spambot - clearly an actual person, but they were promoting contact lenses ... how odd, they're so often 'bots' ... I guess we were treated to "the personal touch" this time, eh? :p

Oh, he was a spammer? Good, good...hearing yet again about how harrowing an experience seeing a blue penis was for some dude is ban worthy enough, imo :)

In general the spammers have been getting a bit more...human(!) and correspondingly tricky the last few days here. Maybe they're...evolving :shifty:

[_liam_]

Yeah you're right about Snyder not being a visionary, he's just a trained mtv alumni monkey boy, technically competent & with a certain flair for visuals & action, but no real soul or inspiration.

Read the book though :annoyed: it's going cheap in a lot of places, and kicks the crap out of the film.


edit - how do we know he wasn't just a person with a contact lens business and not a spambot? He hasn't tried pimping his stuff on the boards

[MinionZombie]

edit - how do we know he wasn't just a person with a contact lens business and not a spambot? He hasn't tried pimping his stuff on the boards

There's a website we use, a database of spambots - it was on that - plus, the same profile came up on a myriad of forums.

...

Indeed - I'm going to get the book sometime soon, I'm just waiting until I finish another book I'm on, plus I want to spread out some of my spending at the moment. Although my birthday is coming up soon, I might whack it on "the list" instead. :)


Yeah you're right about Snyder not being a visionary, he's just a trained mtv alumni monkey boy, technically competent & with a certain flair for visuals & action, but no real soul or inspiration.

High five. :D