Kevin Smith a Fan of DAWN of the DEAD remake

[DjfunkmasterG]

On Evening with Kevin Smith 3, a member asked about remakes, mostly about Escape From Ny, in which Kevin felt didn't need a remake, he said its like DAWN of the DEAD, didn't need a remake, but Zack Snyder made a PIMP remake (Pimp meaning Good) so he is hoping if EFNY gets re-made, he hopes it is workable.

[clanglee]

Interesting.


Awaits MZ's opinion about this. :p

[AcesandEights]

Awaits MZ's opinion about this. :p

:shifty:

[DubiousComforts]

Zack Snyder made a PIMP remake (Pimp meaning Good)
Certain that wasn't sarcasm?

Does anyone seriously talk that way except for a 10-year old?

[SymphonicX]

who cares if it's sarcasm - anyone who finds anything but entertainment value in that remake has completely missed the point of movies being made for artistic reasons, and obviously doesn't watch movies to get anything from them but shocks and jumps.

[krakenslayer]

Certain that wasn't sarcasm?

Does anyone seriously talk that way except for a 10-year old?

Pseudo-cool, stoner-friendly (i.e. dumb) hack directors do, apparently. :rolleyes:

[DjfunkmasterG]

It wasn't sarcasm. He was talking about Superman returns and how boring it was, and the same guy asked about the remake of Escape From New York, which Smiths said why do we need a remake, he said although DAWN of the DEAD didn't need one either, but Zack Snyder made a Pimp Movie, and PIMP meaning good, so he hopes whoever directs Escape does the same, although he felt both that and DAWN didn't need remakes.


Pseudo-cool, stoner-friendly (i.e. dumb) hack directors do, apparently. :rolleyes:

I don't consider Smith a hack. All of his films, except for Mallrats were very entertaining, which compared to a lot of the schlock released today, thats something.

John Russo = Hack
Uwe Boll = Hack
Kevin Smith = Far from a hack.

If you want to get technical, LAND would make me consider George to be a hack, but since I enjoy his other works I won't go there, but if "Of The Dead" turns out as shitty as that trailer floating around youtube.com for it, then I may sing a different tune.

[krakenslayer]

I don't consider Smith a hack. All of his films, except for Mallrats were very entertaining, which compared to a lot of the schlock released today, thats something.

John Russo = Hack
Uwe Boll = Hack
Kevin Smith = Far from a hack.

If you want to get technical, LAND would make me consider George to be a hack, but since I enjoy his other works I won't go there, but if "Of The Dead" turns out as shitty as that trailer floating around youtube.com for it, then I may sing a different tune.

Okay, hack is probably the wrong word, but I dislike Smith in the same way I dislike Rob Zombie, because their entire filmographies each follow a single stylistic formula to the point that their "trademarks" become tedious and predictable. For example, Smiths characters ALWAYS talk in this kinda hip, witty banter filled with tons of pop culture and Star Wars references - it's like his characters are all just projections of himself.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Funny you say that, because he said that is how he writes his characters.

You should watch an Evening With Kevin Smith, its funny, and explains a lot of why the way he does the things he does in his movies.

many non-smith fans have learned to appreciate him more after seeing that show.

[bassman]

Funny you say that, because he said that is how he writes his characters.

You should watch an Evening With Kevin Smith, its funny, and explains a lot of why the way he does the things he does in his movies.

many non-smith fans have learned to appreciate him more after seeing that show.

Yeah, they're really informative. "Half, Half, WHOOOOLLLLEEE":lol:

[krakenslayer]

Usually authors who write characters consistently similar in personality to themselves (or an idealized version of themselves) are decried as lacking imagination, and I would be tempted to agree.

For example, it's a common complaint about later Stephen King novels that the central character is very often a writer or other creative talent with similar personality traits and issues to King himself. At least this allows King to explore introspective personal and psychological matters in his characters in a way that would be difficult with a character who was entirely invented. However, it does become very predictable after a while.

Another author who does this, in a different way, is Guy N. Smith. A notorious hack, all the central male characters in Smith's novels could almost be the same guy cut and pasted from one book to the next. Each one is supposed to be presented as a likeable and suave hero but they always come across unintentionally as somewhat bigoted, arrogant and extremely sexist, and are usually used as a mouthpiece for Smith's own opinions about stuff that is completely irrelevant to the plot at hand. The female characters in his books are even shallower, usually they are completely devoid of any depth of personality beyond simple surface emotions ("scared", "horny"), which to me suggests a complete inability of the author to empathise with anyone who is unlike himself. Here's an example: "I want a man. I'm desperate for a man...I...couldn't hold out any longer. I need...it. Badly!" (from Entombed) and "
Gordon would you … take me away from here? Take me with you, where there aren’t such things as wolves, Black Dogs and people cutting their heads off with saws." (from Werewolf by Moonlight).

[SymphonicX]

OMG Guy N Smith is SUCH a T**T!!!!!

I read a couple of his books back in the days of consuming rubbish horror novels - one was about a girl kidnapped and experimented on (the protagonist fingerprints his gf's keyboard and uses the information to somehow tell where she has been taken - bearing in mind the character has nothing to do with fingerprinting or forensics as far as I remember...it's completely arbitrary!)- can't remember the name tho....the other was called Death Bell, about a town beset by people going mad because a loud bell rings every so often to control some mentally unstable guy...ridiculous...

Oh and I think I remember reading something about Cockroaches, which I'm not sure was him - but it was probably called Cockroaches or something spectacularly original...I don't remember... I just remember that in each of his books something f**ked up happens to the female characters - in the roach one, the main chick gets eaten by cockroaches from "down there", in Death Bell there is a necrophilia sub-story involving an innocent girl who gets murdered, and obv the one with the chick being experimented on simply has her kidnapped as a plot point...I don't remember one story with a strong female in them....

Yeah, he's rubbish.

[AcesandEights]

You should watch an Evening With Kevin Smith, its funny, and explains a lot of why the way he does the things he does in his movies.

many non-smith fans have learned to appreciate him more after seeing that show.

I agree that parts of an Evening with Kevin Smith (didn't he do a second one) are quite funny, but I dunno...Kevin Smith is someone who is likable enough sometimes and has some really fun stories he's told, but nowadays it just seems like he's a bit full of himself and self-important.

[bassman]

Ya know....after thinking about it for a minute, I just have to ask. So what?

DJ, are you still scratching for ways to make people enjoy this film and Smith liking it may somehow help that cause?:p

Kevin Smith also likes food......discuss!:rockbrow:

[AcesandEights]

Kevin Smith also likes food......discuss!:rockbrow:

Oooooooh, he does? I wouldn't have guessed it, not by the svelt look of him.

I wonder if he likes pizza...I bet he does. I bet he does like pizza!

Now I want pizza too.

(Is that how it's supposed to work?)

To be fair, though, I've seen many similar posts about celebs giving love to Romero's works posted (of course) and this is the right forum for that sort of thing for Dawn 04.

[SymphonicX]

Pavarotti once said Rob Halford was the best vocalist in the world.

All it does is give credibility to Pavarotti's taste in music...I certainly doubt you'd find many converts to metal based on those comments.

So apply that to this thread....and the same rule applies.

[darth los]

who cares if it's sarcasm - anyone who finds anything but entertainment value in that remake has completely missed the point of movies being made for artistic reasons, and obviously doesn't watch movies to get anything from them but shocks and jumps.


Making blanket statements about what people SHOULD be getting out of a film or else they are somehow not worthy to wiegh in because they obviously don't know good film when they see it is not very conducive to a healthy debate.

Our opinions are just that, our own.


I happen to love dawn 04' and I could make the same statement about land and the people who praise that film but i don't. Because although I don't like that film personally and can't figure out for the life of me why anyone would, people are entitled to their opinions and shouldn't be diminished or belittled for it. :)

And that is my opinion. :lol:





:cool:

[SymphonicX]

Hey man, if you find Dawn 04 to be a dark film noir character study then all the more power to you!!!

Seems a bit odd but there you go,

[darth los]

Hey man, if you find Dawn 04 to be a dark film noir character study then all the more power to you!!!

Seems a bit odd but there you go,

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

touche'.


I wouldn't go that far but thnx. ;)


I just think it's not the piece of shit that many here seem to think it is.





:cool:

[SymphonicX]

sorry meant to put a big smilie on that!!
:D

I'd like to add HPOTD to my global itinerary of apologies...

[capncnut]

Zack Snyder made a PIMP remake (Pimp meaning Good)

PIMP: 1. To exploit. 2. Having excessive embellishments or ornaments, particularly of the flashy kind.

[darth los]

Or for the slang definition: to pull off something extremely well.

Which is the context I'm sure he meant it in.





:cool:

[DjfunkmasterG]

Or for the slang definition: to pull off something extremely well.

Which is the context I'm sure he meant it in.





:cool:

BINGO



He referred to Escape From NY as a PIMP movie, and a few others, he referred to his experience on Die Hard 4 as PIMP.

I will extract the section tonight and You Tube it so everyone can make their own judgement on it.


Ya know....after thinking about it for a minute, I just have to ask. So what?

DJ, are you still scratching for ways to make people enjoy this film and Smith liking it may somehow help that cause?:p

Kevin Smith also likes food......discuss!:rockbrow:

Nope, just thought it was weird because I never thought in a million years Kevin Smith would like the remake. He is actually against remakes, for the most part.

[DubiousComforts]

Or for the slang definition: to pull off something extremely well.

Which is the context I'm sure he meant it in.
Think there could have been the possibility that I was being sarcastic when asking if Smith was being sarcastic?

Nobody talks that way unless they are attempting to demonstrate how "hip" they are.

[AcesandEights]

Think there could have been the possibility that I was being sarcastic when asking if Smith was being sarcastic?

Nobody talks that way unless they are attempting to demonstrate how "hip" they are.

I don't know. A lot of people seem to use that affectation as a form of self-deprecation. I mean, look at the circles within circles of sarcasm we have going in this thread alone.

It's the time we live in, everyone wants their external monologue to shine bright in one way or another. Whether it's to impress others, themselves or what have you.

[SymphonicX]

I don't know. A lot of people seem to use that affectation as a form of self-deprecation. I mean, look at the circles within circles of sarcasm we have going in this thread alone.

It's the time we live in, everyone wants their external monologue to shine bright in one way or another. Whether it's to impress others, themselves or what have you.


Beautiful...I'm weepy!

[AcesandEights]

Beautiful...I'm weepy!

Applause would have sufficed :p

[DjfunkmasterG]

Sarcasm aside, doesn't change the fact Kevin Smith digs the DAWN remake.

:D


Now I am giddy about it. :lol:

and for all you remake haters :moon:

[capncnut]

Well Smith isn't exactly Stanley Kubrick...

[MinionZombie]

Well Smith isn't exactly Stanley Kubrick...
Indeed, but he does what he does well - I am indeed a fan of his flicks.

Only just found this thread - aye, I heard him say that on "Threevening" a while back when I got the DVD when it was first out.

Don't agree whatsoever. Yawn04 is still pure rape, and the film itself still has 110 things wrong with it in 110 minutes. Regardless of being called Dawn of the Dead, it's fucking atrocious and it can tongue the droppings of a grizzly bear for all I care.

:lol:

But we all know where I stand on Yawn04, don't we?

I'm not gonna get into all that again. :D

...

Also:


Ya know....after thinking about it for a minute, I just have to ask. So what?

DJ, are you still scratching for ways to make people enjoy this film and Smith liking it may somehow help that cause? :p

Kevin Smith also likes food......discuss! :rockbrow:

What bassman said too. :cool:

[capncnut]

Indeed, but he does what he does well - I am indeed a fan of his flicks.
Oh, as do I, especially Clerks and Chasing Amy. But for me Smith's talents specifically lie in his dialogue - his direction is pretty much bog standard modern American Pie-esque style.


Don't agree whatsoever. Yawn04 is still pure rape, and the film itself still has 110 things wrong with it in 110 minutes. Regardless of being called Dawn of the Dead, it's fucking atrocious and it can tongue the droppings of a grizzly bear for all I care.
Quite agreed, I got a better kick out of ABBBOOOTTT HAAAYYYEEESSS than any one single character in that dirty smelly arse bandit of a movie.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Quite agreed, I got a better kick out of ABBBOOOTTT HAAAYYYEEESSS than any one single character in that dirty smelly arse bandit of a movie.


Capn, don't make me have to lose all credability in you with a comment like that, seriously, even if you hate DAWN 04 it has many more re-deeming qualities than Children of the Living Dead... although COTLD did have that LOL scene where the truck plunges over the cliff. :D

[capncnut]

Capn, don't make me have to lose all credability in you with a comment like that, seriously, even if you hate DAWN 04 it has many more re-deeming qualities than Children of the Living Dead... although COTLD did have that LOL scene where the truck plunges over the cliff. :D
I hate to disappoint you but the first ten minutes of COTLD (even with Savini Popeye-isms) SHATS on Corn 04. :D

[DjfunkmasterG]

Well SAVINI's 2 minute cameo in YAWN 04 shits all over that 10 mins of COTLD. :D

[clanglee]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Gary here. COTLD is a godawful piece of trash. There is no way that you could compare that crapfest favorably to Dawn '04. Come on.:rolleyes:

[krakenslayer]

This reminds me of a time when I visited the HPotD forums before CotlD had been released and everyone was flipping out over those promo shots of Savini in zombie-killer mode and everyone thought it was going to kick ass..

...then the DVD came out and... uhh... yeah :confused: :lol:

[MoonSylver]

This reminds me of a time when I visited the HPotD forums before CotlD had been released and everyone was flipping out over those promo shots of Savini in zombie-killer mode and everyone thought it was going to kick ass..

...then the DVD came out and... uhh... yeah :confused: :lol:

Yeah...thing that sucks is that, from my understanding, if they had stuck to Russo's original script, it would have been pretty sweet. IIRC COTLD was his second attempt to translate his "Return of the Living Dead" novel (which was a straight sequel to NOTLD) to the screen (the FIRST attempt was ROTLD which was purchased just to secure the rights to the title)

The final version bears almost NO resemblance to the novel, except the concept of the bus crash kicking the plague off again.

Russo gets a lot of crap for this one, but (unlike NOTLD 30th) the blame can rest on Joseph Wolfe (producer), who gave his daughter Karen L. Wolfe free reign to rewrite the script (if you want to call the shit storm that resulted "written")

I remember in the credits the bold statement "Abbot Hayes created by Karen L. Wolfe)...honey, that's nothing to be proud of....:barf:

The wikipedia article had this to say:

"After the screening the Directors Cut of the film (Tor Ramsey), Karen L Wolf took the film away from Ramsey, hired a new editor and even looped many lines in order to restore her original script, which had been changed considerably for clarity.

The Director, Tor Ramsey once offered a written apology to those who "wasted 90 minutes of their life" watching the film."

Ah what might have been...a decent low budget, but honest, zed flick, insted turned into this...:(

He MIGHT have one last shot at redemption: he has a flick listed in pre-production "Escape of the Living Dead" that is supposed to star Tony Todd, Kane Hodder, Gunner Hanson, & Steve Railsback. I ain't holdin' my breath, nut we'll see. He's directing as well, so if it DOES suck, then he can take the FULL hit on that one.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Gary here. COTLD is a godawful piece of trash. There is no way that you could compare that crapfest favorably to Dawn '04. Come on.:rolleyes:


LMAO, Dude the Universal Logo opening DAWN 04 shits all over the entire running time of COTLD.

[MinionZombie]

I believe there's that article here on HPOTD where Tor Ramsey appologises for COTLD. Good on him for rinsing that turd festival.

I hope his new film goes well, because it certainly sounds like he got utterly shafted on COTLD by that moron Wolfe.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I remember reading that a long time ago. Sounds like that movie was one giant headache.

[Neil]

I believe there's that article here on HPOTD where Tor Ramsey appologises for COTLD. Good on him for rinsing that turd festival.

http://www.homepageofthedead.com/baps/cotld_email.html

[SymphonicX]

Yeah COTLD was bad...so bad....

dawn 04 was much better and more watchable - I got twenty mins into COTLD but managed to stay to the end of Yawn - so it says a lot.

[Trin]

I'm not a big ol fan of Yawn '04. But I gotta say, if it's on I'll watch it. If I'm just flipping through the channels looking to mindlessly while away an hour it's premium entertainment. Especially near the opening when they're first getting the situation in hand.

Which is interesting because I would no more put in my Yawn '04 DVD than Barney the dinosaur. I never *want* to watch it, but I end up watching it a lot nonetheless.

The big question I have is why does Yawn '04 run 20 times a month when I have yet to see Bland of the Dead run once on TV? I might like Land more if it were on now and then and I got sucked into watching it during those mindless TV times.

Both movies have something in common - don't think too much and they're pretty good.

[bassman]

Land was on tv alot a few years back. On HBO or one of those movie channels. Lately i've seen it on TNT and TBS a few times.

I get a big laugh out of the fact that Dawn04 plays on Starz Black almost everyday....

[DjfunkmasterG]

Land runs a lot on Cinemax. Watched it on TBS or TNT one night, too funny with how much editing they did to it.

Return of the Living Dead 4 & 5 runs more of Sci-Fi than LAND or DAWN runs on other cable channels.

[ProfessorChaos]

was listening to the commentaries by matt stone and trey parker for south park's 11th season, and on the "night of the living homeless" episode's commentary, they discuss how much they liked dawn 04. so you can add them to the list, dj. like trin, trey parker said that anytime he's flipping channels and comes across it, no matter where it's at in the film, he just sits back and watches it. the same goes for me, too.

i saw the dawn remake in theaters on opening day after a ten-mile hike that morning with my battalion. two of my buddies went and we had a blast. i wasn't expecting much, having seen links from HPOD before i even considered posting here, i knew it was gonna be totally different and would fail to live up to the original, so i just shut my mind off and sat down. and yeah, although it's name-rape and should totally be called something else, and running zombies are pretty silly, i think it's better than land, diary, 28days/weeks, or about any other zombie film released since night 1990 or the original romero trilogy (with exception to shaun of the dead, of course).

wonder how army of the dead will turn out? probably better than romero's untitled project but not as good as world war z.:D

[clanglee]

You know what? I actually kinda found this site indirectly because of Dawn 04. There was that Universal run hype site for that movie, which then also ran the hype site for Land, which is where I got the link for this site. So there

[Cartma7546]

yeah, I too wished it was names something else but when compared to all the other remakes that are out there it is actually pretty good. I'm not going to lie when i read about the zombie running oh so long ago I nearly stuck my head in a running blender. I remember them saying...don't worry kids he directed Scooby Doo, and that when i switched the setting to puree. Then I saw it and it wasn't all that bad. It had a good cast of actors, ones that could actually act and help people take a zombie movie serious. I forgave Mr. Zach for the running zombies because the movie was entertaining and full of action and had a group of characters you cared about and it didn't have glowing blue penis in it...that i can't forgive

[DjfunkmasterG]

Name rape or not, DAWN 04 is a good zombie film. I still like the original over the remake, but DAWN 04 rocks.

I like 28 Days Later a lot, 28 weeks not so much. 28 Days later reminded me a lot of DAWn & DAY.

[AcesandEights]

yeah, I too wished it was named something else but when compared to all the other remakes that are out there it is actually pretty good.

Definitely. There will be a lot of people around here who might take issue with what you say about the cast, but I think the overall effect was pretty solid. There were some big ol' plot holes in the film, but I thought the movie was good fun. Of course, I actually think Dawn '04 is better than Diary (which I didn't like) and Land(that I enjoyed, despite rolling my eyes and cringing a few times when I watch it) myself from an entertainment perspective.


and it didn't have glowing blue penis in it...that i can't forgive

:rolleyes:

[krakenslayer]

http://www.homepageofthedead.com/baps/cotld_email.html

And it's a shame because that movie pretty much killed Ramsey's career. In the nine years since he shot CotLD, he's directed one (1) homemade short film starring two of his friends. From what I hear, his movie Urban Mythology, shot the year before Children, was actually very good and the guy showed a lot of promise. It's a shame Karen Wolfe pissed all over his life. :(

[EvilNed]

Kevin Smith hasn't made a good film in over 9 years. And of course he'll like the remake, because it's ten times better than all the films he's released since 1999. (Not saying much, by the way)

Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back, as well as Clerks 2, are two of the worst letdowns in cinematic history. I'm surprised there are people here who dare insult GAR over Land and Diary, yet praise this guy? Now THAT, my friends, is not right.

I don't give a shit what Kevin Smith thinks is "pimp". The only thing that's "pimp" about Kevin Smith is his beard... Which is nowadays dipped in poo.

[clanglee]

Kevin Smith hasn't made a good film in over 9 years. .

OPINION!!!!!!!! :p

I quite loved Zack and Miri. Funniest movie I've seen in ages. \

As a matter of fact. . the only Smith movie I can think of right now that I don't like very much is Jersey Girl. . and even that one I didn't hate. Hmmmmmm. . . .

[MinionZombie]

OPINION!!!!!!!! :p

I quite loved Zack and Miri. Funniest movie I've seen in ages. \

As a matter of fact. . the only Smith movie I can think of right now that I don't like very much is Jersey Girl. . and even that one I didn't hate. Hmmmmmm. . . .
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/11/lolcat-high-5.jpg

[EvilNed]

OPINION!!!!!!!! :p


Amen, it is an opinion. As it is with anyone who hates Uwe Bolls film.

[Neil]

Escape From New York was such a film of its time - Cold war, end of the world any minute, dark horrible times... Would be quite something to make a remake bleak and believable enough without dumming it down for the MTV kids....

[bassman]

As a matter of fact. . the only Smith movie I can think of right now that I don't like very much is Jersey Girl. . and even that one I didn't hate. Hmmmmmm. . . .

I wasn't a fan of Jersey Girl at first, but now I think it's quite good. In fact, I just recently caught it on IFC and I loved it. I don't know if becoming a father had anything to do with the change of heart, but I thought it was touching this time around.

As for his other films.....Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma, and Clerks 2 are all great, imo. Mallrats and J&SBSB are just stupid. But in a tolerable and sometimes mindless entertaining way...if that makes sense.

[AcesandEights]

I wasn't a fan of Jersey Girl at first, but now I think it's quite good. In fact, I just recently caught it on IFC and I loved it. I don't know if becoming a father had anything to do with the change of heart, but I thought it was touching this time around.

This is the first thing I thought when I read your second sentence. "Well, Bassman is a dad now and that changes perspectives for people."


As for his other films.....Clerks, Chasing Amy, Dogma, and Clerks 2 are all great, imo. Mallrats and J&SBSB are just stupid. But in a tolerable and sometimes mindless entertaining way...if that makes sense.

I pretty much agree that Clerks and Chasing Amy are strong, but I still really enjoy Clerks 2, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back and Mallrats, though it always seemed clear to me that KS stopped progressing in any meaningful manner as a film maker after Chasing Amy, IMHO.

[bassman]

though it always seemed clear to me that KS stopped progressing in any meaningful manner as a film maker after Chasing Amy, IMHO.


I don't know if you could say he didn't progress. He went on to make Dogma which was epic compared to what he had previously done. He also started giving his films more heart while still maintaining the comedy.(Jersey, Clerks 2, Zack &...). So I think he's grown a bit. Even if just a little.

[AcesandEights]

I never really dug Dogma all that much. A great premise, but to me it was always something that hinted at its own possibilities with bits of coolness here and there but ultimately failed to deliver. In the end, it always seemed like Smith came up with a great idea he couldn't properly see through to completion, as it failed to be very entertaining throughout for me and was wiltingly simplistic where it seemed like he wanted it to be somehow thought provokingly funny. *Shrug* Again, just my opinion on it.

When you say epic, do you mean in terms of subject matter or production or something else entirely? I can see how Smith was probably forced to up his game with some more complex shots, more sets, larger scenes and--I think--a pretty damned huge cast, so that would be a fair point I'd agree on.

And, perhaps unfairly, I keep discounting Zack & Miri..., because I keep forgetting about it and have yet to see it. With regards to Clerks 2, again, I'll say I really liked it, but it just seemed ground he'd already covered.

[bassman]

Yeah...I meant Dogma was epic in size compared to the previous films.

As for Clerks 2 covering familiar ground....of course it's familiar. It's catching up with the characters 10 years on. I thought it was great. Perfect ending to bring the characters of Dante and Randall to a close(for awhile, anyway).

[darth los]

You know what? I actually kinda found this site indirectly because of Dawn 04. There was that Universal run hype site for that movie, which then also ran the hype site for Land, which is where I got the link for this site. So there


And we thank our lucky starts every night for that (atleast I do) :p






i saw the dawn remake in theaters on opening day after a ten-mile hike that morning with my battalion. two of my buddies went and we had a blast. i wasn't expecting much, having seen links from HPOD before i even considered posting here, i knew it was gonna be totally different and would fail to live up to the original, so i just shut my mind off and sat down. and yeah, although it's name-rape and should totally be called something else, and running zombies are pretty silly, i think it's better than land, diary, 28days/weeks, or about any other zombie film released since night 1990 or the original romero trilogy (with exception to shaun of the dead, of course).


I've been making that case here for years. People want to shit all over land but outside of the Romero films they can't name me 5 consensus picks of films that are better. Until that happens their arguments ring pretty hollow.

I sometimes think that by diminishing Dawn 04' that they somehow make themselves feel better about the quality of land.

Think about this though. Even if we conceed that land is the better film (which we are not by the way) Dawn 04' is still better than 98% of the zombie films ever made. The only 2 non Romero films that could be viewed as better is Shaun (definitely0 and ROTLD (arguably), imo.




yeah, I too wished it was names something else but when compared to all the other remakes that are out there it is actually pretty good. I'm not going to lie when i read about the zombie running oh so long ago I nearly stuck my head in a running blender. I remember them saying...don't worry kids he directed Scooby Doo, and that when i switched the setting to puree. Then I saw it and it wasn't all that bad. It had a good cast of actors, ones that could actually act and help people take a zombie movie serious. I forgave Mr. Zach for the running zombies because the movie was entertaining and full of action and had a group of characters you cared about and it didn't have glowing blue penis in it...that i can't forgive


I thought the acting was pretty solid. At no point did I ever think, "wow that's bad". Were there some cringe inducing moments? Sure. I could have done without the baby myself, but the man tried something different, he went for it. Heaven's forbid right? I know, it would be much better if he just stayed with the same old stale ideas. Or if he just did a frame by frame remake of the original. Then we would have killed him for ripping GAR off outright.

And as we all know that's Russo and Rubenstein's job. :p






:cool:

[clanglee]

And we thank our lucky starts every night for that (atleast I do) :p
:

Awwwww :o


I never really dug Dogma all that much. A great premise, but to me it was always something that hinted at its own possibilities with bits of coolness here and there but ultimately failed to deliver. In the end, it always seemed like Smith came up with a great idea he couldn't properly see through to completion, as it failed to be very entertaining throughout for me and was wiltingly simplistic where it seemed like he wanted it to be somehow thought provokingly funny. *Shrug* Again, just my opinion on it.
.

My main problem with Dogma was with Linda Fiorentino. . . the woman can't act. Plain and simple. She is one of the worst actresses out there. Sure she's pretty and all. But when she "acts", she appears like she's acting like she's acting. Just bland, boring and flat, but with the little eye movements and hand gestures to indicate that she is now acting. . . . . . .I don't like her. She reminds me of Macaulay Culkin. I always joked that every line that kid delivered was in the same cadence. Ah-hun-ni-nah-hun-ni-nah-hun.

[darth los]

Awwwww :o



My main problem with Dogma was with Linda Fiorentino. . . the woman can't act. Plain and simple. She is one of the worst actresses out there. Sure she's pretty and all. But when she "acts", she appears like she's acting like she's acting. Just bland, boring and flat, but with the little eye movements and hand gestures to indicate that she is now acting. . . . . . .I don't like her. She reminds me of Macaulay Culkin. I always joked that every line that kid delivered was in the same cadence. Ah-hun-ni-nah-hun-ni-nah-hun.


I thought she came off as reluctantly playing the role rivaled only by her character's reluctance to accept the boon that she was given. Kind of like she did it for a paycheck.





:cool:

[AcesandEights]

Awwwww :o



My main problem with Dogma was with Linda Fiorentino. . . the woman can't act. Plain and simple. She is one of the worst actresses out there. Sure she's pretty and all. But when she "acts", she appears like she's acting like she's acting. Just bland, boring and flat, but with the little eye movements and hand gestures to indicate that she is now acting. . . . . . .I don't like her. She reminds me of Macaulay Culkin. I always joked that every line that kid delivered was in the same cadence. Ah-hun-ni-nah-hun-ni-nah-hun.

Watch it, Clang! You're talking about a (former) arch-femme fatale and a key player in that 80s cold war classic: Gotcha (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9oMGJDY-8&feature=related) :)

Okay, maybe you have a point.

[clanglee]

Watch it, Clang! You're talking about a (former) arch-femme fatale and a key player in that 80s cold war classic: Gotcha (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9oMGJDY-8&feature=related) :)

Okay, maybe you have a point.

Like I said. .she's hot. . . but an awful actress. What was that movie where she is screwing the ginger top from NYPD Blue? Caruso?

[DjfunkmasterG]

Watch it, Clang! You're talking about a (former) arch-femme fatale and a key player in that 80s cold war classic: Gotcha (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9oMGJDY-8&feature=related) :)

Okay, maybe you have a point.

Just watched that classic last night. Gotcha is one of my favorite 80's flicks

[AcesandEights]

Just watched that classic last night. Gotcha is one of my favorite 80's flicks

DJ, was it on cable or do you have it on DVD/Blu-ray? I watched that movie countless time when I was growing up and always enjoyed it. Now, I want to own it...damn...

[clanglee]

Anthony Edwards right?


The 80's movies that I haven't seen in a long long time that I would like to own are Cloak and Dagger and Wargames. Used to LOVE those movies.

[AcesandEights]

Anthony Edwards right?


The 80's movies that I haven't seen in a long long time that I would like to own are Cloak and Dagger and Wargames. Used to LOVE those movies.

As a roleplayer from my early years, Cloak and Dagger was a instant classic with me, as a kid. I saw Wargames on basic cable recently, I was shocked to realize that one of the missile jockeys at the beginning (the one who pulls the gun on the guy who doesn't want to turn his missile) is none other than a young Michael Madsen. Anyway, it's been making the rounds on basic cable the last year on a semi-regular basis.

And yes, Anthony Edwards (with hair!!!), was the protag in Gotcha.


Like I said. .she's hot. . . but an awful actress. What was that movie where she is screwing the ginger top from NYPD Blue? Caruso?

Jade, IIRC.

[DjfunkmasterG]

DJ, was it on cable or do you have it on DVD/Blu-ray? I watched that movie countless time when I was growing up and always enjoyed it. Now, I want to own it...damn...

TWAS on HDNET through FIOS

However, i think it is out on DVD, but I recorded it to myDVR, so now I have an HD version.

Love that movie, that and Miracle Mile are my two favorite Anthony Edwards 80's flicks.

[Trin]

Dawn '04 had an uphill battle trying to gain widespread popularity amongst the GAR fans.

You name anything "Dawn of the Dead" and it's name rape. The hardcore fans are predisposed to hate it. No matter how creative and talented you are you will always be cast in the role of usurping another's success for your own gain.

Likewise, you make a movie named something different that portrays people taking refuge in a mall from zombies and it's, "Oh, geez, this is a ripoff of Dawn."

My personal opinion is that naming it Dawn of the Dead is the only choice. It acknowledges that, yes, this is a movie influenced, drawn from, and spun from the classic. It looks the problem in the eye and takes the lumps for being name rape.

I did think the acting in Dawn '04 was good.

I cannot argue that Dawn '04, good or bad, was better than 99% of the non-GAR zombie movies.

[MinionZombie]

You name anything "Dawn of the Dead" and it's name rape.

This rebuttal always irks me - while it is somewhat true - that's not the basis of the anti-Yawn hatred. For me at least, there's 110 reasons in 110 minutes why it sucks "teh ballz" like a fevered whore.

Regardless of name, it's a terrible movie in my opinion - same as that Day of the Dead 'remake' (often referred to as RIMO - Remake In Name Only) ... but again, a terrible movie of epic proportions. I listed my reasons for that being utter turd wash as well.

Zombi 2, Return of the Living Dead 1 & 2, Undead, Braindead (if you consider it a zombie-zombie movie), Living Dead At Manchester Morgue are but six zed-flicks which kick Yawn04's whore-ass up and down jump street.

:D

[Trin]

This rebuttal always irks me - while it is somewhat true - that's not the basis of the anti-Yawn hatred. For me at least, there's 110 reasons in 110 minutes why it sucks "teh ballz" like a fevered whore.I'm no fan of the whole name-rape argument either. The man was making a remake. To name it something else would just cause fans to think he was trying to be original when he was not and that would've gotten the fans even more predisposed to hate it. The big problem for Dawn '04 is that Dawn '78 was one of the greatest horror movies of all time. Those are pretty big shoes to fill when all you bring to the table is special effects and a zombie baby.

My personal opinion is that ROTLD 1 & 2 (and 3, 4, 5) were all crap. I cannot stand to watch them.

Long story short - I'm no huge fan of Dawn '04. But I believe that weighed solely on its own merits it is watchable. Weighed against all the non-GAR zombie movies out there it does well. Weighed against its namesake it is a turd.

[AcesandEights]

This rebuttal always irks me - while it is somewhat true - that's not the basis of the anti-Yawn hatred.

So does that make the 133,149,814,944 times (I did a forum search and counted ;)) you've used the term 'Name Rape' with regards to Dawn 04 superfluous? :p


Zombi 2, Return of the Living Dead 1 & 2, Undead, Braindead (if you consider it a zombie-zombie movie), Living Dead At Manchester Morgue are but six zed-flicks which kick Yawn04's whore-ass up and down jump street.

:confused:



Long story short - I'm no huge fan of Dawn '04. But I believe that weighed solely on its own merits it is watchable. Weighed against all the non-GAR zombie movies out there it does well. Weighed against its namesake it is a turd.

That sounds like a pretty fair statement, to me.

[darth los]

Zombi 2, Return of the Living Dead 1 & 2, Undead, Braindead (if you consider it a zombie-zombie movie), Living Dead At Manchester Morgue are but six zed-flicks which kick Yawn04's whore-ass up and down jump street.



My personal opinion is that ROTLD 1 & 2 (and 3, 4, 5) were all crap. I cannot stand to watch them.

Long story short - I'm no huge fan of Dawn '04. But I believe that weighed solely on its own merits it is watchable. Weighed against all the non-GAR zombie movies out there it does well. Weighed against its namesake it is a turd.


Exactly, that's my whole point when I say name me 5 consensus picks of Non-Gar zombie films that are better than Dawn 04'. I doubt that we all can agree on that. People are going to have different opinions on what films are good and what films aren't. The only films that are without a doubt/no brainers are Gar's films and Shaun of the Dead, but what else is there really?





:cool:

[MinionZombie]

So does that make the 133,149,814,944 times (I did a forum search and counted ) you've used the term 'Name Rape' with regards to Dawn 04 superfluous?

No - it is name-rape - but I was taking umbridge to pro-Yawners who use that one element of hatred as the basis/be-all-end-all for the entirety of anti-Yawner's hatred of that steaming pile of turd.

It is name-rape, but it's also a shitload of other things ... bad things.

...

Also - can't believe I forgot Shaun of the Dead as an awesome non-GAR zed flick - so, without further ado - add that one to my aforementioned list of "more awesome than Yawn but which aren't GAR" list. :D

[krakenslayer]

Meh... I don't really side with either camp on Dawn 04. It wasn't terrible, in fact I thought it was very entertaining the first time I saw it in the cinema. I don't really care too much either way with regards runners and shamblers; I have a leaning towards shamblers for nostalgic reasons and because I prefer the more sedate, eerie atmosphere and pacing of "slow" zombie movies to the high octane athletic zombie movies, but I do love 28 Weeks/Days Later.

However, Dawn 04 is extremely shallow, and doesn't really have any real sense of desperation or menace. The characters don't ring true at all, they go through the motions of mourning or being afraid, but they are so undeveloped and (in several cases) stereotypical, and the character-led scenes so perfunctory, that it really didn't carry any weight. I just didn't give a shit about them.

All the smart social satire was stripped out, too - there is no message about mindless consumerism, the mall is no longer a gilded cage, it's just a cool place for the characters to hang out and take whatever they want and be happy while everyone outside suffers - the message, if anything, is pro-consumerist and in opposition to what the original stood for.

Last but not least, the gore and black humour that made the original so memorable is notably absent. Oh yes, there's lots and lots of blood (mostly shooting out of bullet wounds - the same effect used over and over and over again), but the trademark slapstick gut-ripping is totally missing. Now gore isn't everything, but part of what makes Romero's films scary is that we actually see the horror of the zombies' flesh eating habits up close. How can you make a movie about cannibalistic zombies and NOT show them eating people!?

Oh... and the less said about the zombie baby the better.

As I said earlier, I didn't totally hate it. It was a fun action movie, but it wasn't a film with anything memorable or re-watchable about it. I've seen it once since 2004 (on special edition DVD), and to be honest that's probably the last time I ever will. I wasn't a total waste of celluloid, bit I certainly wouldn't waste time or effort defending it.

[Trin]

Well, as we know it takes as many as 20 years for a zombie movie to overcome its initial knee-jerk resistance. Everyone walked into the theaters for Dawn '04 with such high expectations built up from what Dawn '78 was, they were bound to be let down. Even though people hate it today eventually those same people will love it and it will take its place as a classic. :rolleyes:

What?? Those arguments work for Land but not for Dawn '04?? :D:D:p :moon:

Hey, even a turd will stink less after it dries out a while. :lol:

[darth los]

Well, as we know it takes as many as 20 years for a zombie movie to overcome its initial knee-jerk resistance. Everyone walked into the theaters for Dawn '04 with such high expectations built up from what Dawn '78 was, they were bound to be let down. Even though people hate it today eventually those same people will love it and it will take its place as a classic. :rolleyes:

What?? Those arguments work for Land but not for Dawn '04?? :D:D:p :moon:

Hey, even a turd will stink less after it dries out a while. :lol:


What's good for the goose...right? :lol:




Meh... I don't really side with either camp on Dawn 04. It wasn't terrible, in fact I thought it was very entertaining the first time I saw it in the cinema. I don't really care too much either way with regards runners and shamblers; I have a leaning towards shamblers for nostalgic reasons and because I prefer the more sedate, eerie atmosphere and pacing of "slow" zombie movies to the high octane athletic zombie movies, but I do love 28 Weeks/Days Later.

However, Dawn 04 is extremely shallow, and doesn't really have any real sense of desperation or menace. The characters don't ring true at all, they go through the motions of mourning or being afraid, but they are so undeveloped and (in several cases) stereotypical, and the character-led scenes so perfunctory, that it really didn't carry any weight. I just didn't give a shit about them.

All the smart social satire was stripped out, too - there is no message about mindless consumerism, the mall is no longer a gilded cage, it's just a cool place for the characters to hang out and take whatever they want and be happy while everyone outside suffers - the message, if anything, is pro-consumerist and in opposition to what the original stood for.

Last but not least, the gore and black humour that made the original so memorable is notably absent. Oh yes, there's lots and lots of blood (mostly shooting out of bullet wounds - the same effect used over and over and over again), but the trademark slapstick gut-ripping is totally missing. Now gore isn't everything, but part of what makes Romero's films scary is that we actually see the horror of the zombies' flesh eating habits up close. How can you make a movie about cannibalistic zombies and NOT show them eating people!?

Oh... and the less said about the zombie baby the better.

As I said earlier, I didn't totally hate it. It was a fun action movie, but it wasn't a film with anything memorable or re-watchable about it. I've seen it once since 2004 (on special edition DVD), and to be honest that's probably the last time I ever will. I wasn't a total waste of celluloid, bit I certainly wouldn't waste time or effort defending it.


Good post. Valid points. :)


However, I have to correct a couple of things.

We did indeed see a zombie feeding on a human. When they first get to the mall there's a janitor feasting on someone's guts in a closet (co-worker?) Now admitedly that's just one instance and it pales in comparison to what Romero puts in his films.

Also, in terms of the social commentary on consumerism, I would argue that there just wasn't enough time for that aspect of the story to develop. Yes they did have a good time with all the material excesses in the mall. Who wouldn't? The protagonists from the original certainly did, or did we convieniently forget that?

Let us not forget that they reveled in decadence for MONTHS until they became tired of it all. That's when the mall became a prison for them. Life is about so much more than material things and they got to a point to where they were just existing instead of living. I get all that.

However, the protagonists from the remake were still at the stage where they were enjoying what the mall had to offer. When it was all said and done they weren't there even a month. The characters from the original were there 5 or 6. Big difference.

As a matter of fact, even with the month or so that they were there they were running out of supplies so chances are that never would have gotten to the point of boredom with material excess because they just didn't have the time or resources.

So for that reason, as well as others, the anti-consumerist message was absent to a large degree in this film.

Also, let's not forget that this is NOT the original. Thus it doesn't and perhaps shouldn't share the same message. It has it's own message. But for those who are going to hate the film no matter what I write I guess there's no sense in getting carpal tunnel syndrome trying to explain it.





:cool:

[bassman]

I've come to accept Dawn04 by thinking of it as a mindless action film. Not that I like it....but it can be entertaining for one viewing. It's like Crank....but with screaming "zombies" and worse actors than Jason Statham.:shifty:

[Trin]

I've come to accept Dawn04 by thinking of it as a mindless action film. Not that I like it....but it can be entertaining for one viewing. It's like Crank....but with screaming "zombies" and worse actors than Jason Statham.:shifty:Yeah, that's pretty much how I view it. And when I'm flipping through the channels and it's on I get sucked in. And feel bad about myself later. The only part I refuse to watch is zombie baby.

To be honest, if I ignore the things I dislike in Land I can enjoy it. I've recently watched it a couple of times focusing strictly on the atmosphere, characters (the ones I like), and setting. I'm even more convinced that the first 15 minutes of Land are the best 15 minutes of any zombie movie evah imho.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I view it. And when I'm flipping through the channels and it's on I get sucked in. And feel bad about myself later. The only part I refuse to watch is zombie baby.

To be honest, if I ignore the things I dislike in Land I can enjoy it. I've recently watched it a couple of times focusing strictly on the atmosphere, characters (the ones I like), and setting. I'm even more convinced that the first 15 minutes of Land are the best 15 minutes of any zombie movie evah imho.

Weird, its those same 15 mnutes that ruined LAND for me. Everything once they get back to the city feels good, and ok, its that opening 15 minutes that bothers me immensly. I attribute it to the cinematography, its too claustrophobic, when you compare it to the rest of the movie. The rest of the movies cinematography feels very open and wide, while the opening 15 minutes in Uniontown seems to tight and constrained which set the wrong tone for a zombie film in a world overrun with zombies 3+ years after the outbreak.

[Trin]

This really should not be terribly surprising. You're a cinemetography guy and I'm a plot/storyline guy.

To me it was brilliant. In the start of Night we saw people fleeing and reacting. Same for Dawn on a larger scale. Day started with people safe but shell-shocked, hunkered down.

Land started with the humans on the offensive. They roll into town with a plan and use the zombie weaknesses against them. They loot with purpose and preparation. I was in the theater thinking, "Hell Yeah!! This is how you survive!!" Not only was it a great way to start the movie where the humans have had time to prepare, it was also a great way to restart the Dead series after 20 years.

It introduced great characters. We see Riley as a methodical, by the book guy, yet caring of the fellow scavengers. We see foreshadowing of the conflict between Riley and Cholo, we see the bond between Riley and Charlie, and we see the young guy kill himself after being bitten. These are guys that are past the whole soul-searching phase. To quote Roger, they're dealing with it.

The fireworks was genius. It makes complete sense that the near-mindless zombies would fixate on fireworks - just like we do. At the same time it's wonderful subtext - classic exploitation of the masses while giving them a show to watch. This is the only facet of the social commentary that doesn't interfere with the plot.

For my part I loved the atmosphere. Yes, it was shot tight and we didn't see as much of the outside world as I would've liked, but I really didn't notice that in the theater. I was too busy just soaking it all in. Seeing how Uniontown was "living" in the absence of humans was really cool.

The music was great too. Really creepy and mood enhancing.

It started downhill for me when they got to the Green and there were no zombies around.

Back on topic, someone said Dawn '04 had a great opening, and I agree with that too. They did a good job of dropping little hints of what was going on while showing the nurse (Anna??) going through her routine. Then it went full on intense which laid the groundwork for the movie as a whole.

[Phenia Films]

You mean the big time overated Smith...who cares what he thinks

[AcesandEights]

You mean the big time overated Smith...who cares what he thinks

Oh, snap! Straight from the mouth of someone from Jersey! :)

[Phenia Films]

Oh, snap! Straight from the mouth of someone from Jersey! :)

thought youd like that Ace8,
your avatar/sig shows you my appreciation for the guy (lol)
:annoyed:

[DjfunkmasterG]

You mean the big time overated Smith...who cares what he thinks

Yet here you and I sit trying to get a smidgen of the success he currently has. I care what he thinks, if he could make it, so can we and obviously he knows what going on, and was smart enough to have a 15+ year career with Hollywood.

You can't even tell me you wouldn't want to be in his shoes, especially if you are making films.

[MoonSylver]

Meh... I don't really side with either camp on Dawn 04. It wasn't terrible, in fact I thought it was very entertaining the first time I saw it in the cinema. I don't really care too much either way with regards runners and shamblers; I have a leaning towards shamblers for nostalgic reasons and because I prefer the more sedate, eerie atmosphere and pacing of "slow" zombie movies to the high octane athletic zombie movies, but I do love 28 Weeks/Days Later.

However, Dawn 04 is extremely shallow, and doesn't really have any real sense of desperation or menace. The characters don't ring true at all, they go through the motions of mourning or being afraid, but they are so undeveloped and (in several cases) stereotypical, and the character-led scenes so perfunctory, that it really didn't carry any weight. I just didn't give a shit about them.

All the smart social satire was stripped out, too - there is no message about mindless consumerism, the mall is no longer a gilded cage, it's just a cool place for the characters to hang out and take whatever they want and be happy while everyone outside suffers - the message, if anything, is pro-consumerist and in opposition to what the original stood for.

Last but not least, the gore and black humour that made the original so memorable is notably absent. Oh yes, there's lots and lots of blood (mostly shooting out of bullet wounds - the same effect used over and over and over again), but the trademark slapstick gut-ripping is totally missing. Now gore isn't everything, but part of what makes Romero's films scary is that we actually see the horror of the zombies' flesh eating habits up close. How can you make a movie about cannibalistic zombies and NOT show them eating people!?

Oh... and the less said about the zombie baby the better.

As I said earlier, I didn't totally hate it. It was a fun action movie, but it wasn't a film with anything memorable or re-watchable about it. I've seen it once since 2004 (on special edition DVD), and to be honest that's probably the last time I ever will. I wasn't a total waste of celluloid, bit I certainly wouldn't waste time or effort defending it.

http://todayilaughed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/high-five.jpg


Give that man a ce-gar. Cut & paste the above & add the name "MoonSylver" to it & that's pretty much it. Only difference is I bought the DVD when it came out & have watched it a few times since, but other than that *meh*. The only time I get pissy about it is when it gets compared to any GAR flick in the "better than" context, just because even thought the last couple of flicks were not his best work, I still don't think there's any room for comparison

[Mike70]

Okay, hack is probably the wrong word, but I dislike Smith...

the right word is overrated. extremely overrated. the most overrated director in the last 50 years. some of his films have their moments but all in all, i don't really enjoy "movies" done by a person who apparently feels that having his characters say
"fuck" every 3 words along with copious scatological references to be the height of comedic sophistication. the guy's movies are for people who are perpetually stuck in their freshmen year in high school.


i wonder if he said that he was a big fan of covering himself in camel shit and wallowing in sawdust with badgers would that make that activity cool?

[clanglee]

i wonder if he said that he was a big fan of covering himself in camel shit and wallowing in sawdust with badgers would that make that activity cool?

Dude!!!! You mean you AREN'T already doing that?!?!?!? It's the coolest!!! Extra coolpoints if you can get the badgers to rub you down with baby oil afterwards.

[Mike70]

Dude!!!! You mean you AREN'T already doing that?!?!?!? It's the coolest!!! Extra coolpoints if you can get the badgers to rub you down with baby oil afterwards.

sadly, i am always the last one into the coolsville station these days.

[capncnut]

YAY, Kevin Smith, the BEST director on the planet. Man, Clerks is so much better than 2001, Rosemarys Baby and Apocalypse Now. :rolleyes:

[DjfunkmasterG]

YAY, Kevin Smith, the BEST director on the planet. Man, Clerks is so much better than 2001, Rosemarys Baby and Apocalypse Now. :rolleyes:


Really putting in a stretch there aye Capn?

:lol:

Comparing him to other comedy writers and directors, Smith is probably one of the better talents out there, but in the entire pool, I know, you know, and he knows he is a small fish in a very large pond.

[MinionZombie]

Really putting in a stretch there aye Capn?

:lol:

Comparing him to other comedy writers and directors, Smith is probably one of the better talents out there, but in the entire pool, I know, you know, and he knows he is a small fish in a very large pond.
I dig Smith's work, he does what he does and he does it well - he's an entertaining dude, SModcast rocks, his Evening Withs rock - and I dig his flicks. :cool:

Anything bad you could say about Smith, it'd be pointless, because he's already said it himself...perhaps he's too self-deprecating, but I'd bet there's not many directors who'd be willing to put themselves down so much and so often - be it for a laugh, or in all seriousness.

[bassman]

Anything bad you could say about Smith, it'd be pointless, because he's already said it himself...perhaps he's too self-deprecating, but I'd bet there's not many directors who'd be willing to put themselves down so much and so often - be it for a laugh, or in all seriousness.

Yeah...Smith will be the first to admit that he's just a nerd that got lucky. He's had hits and misses, but he seems to stay pretty humble about it all. He doesn't go around stroking his ego like Michael Bay.

Personally, I think Smith is only getting better. Yeah, Zack and Miri was just your average comedy, but he seems to have grown in many other areas. Jersey Girl and Clerks 2 really seem to be pushing into another place for Smith. Don't get me wrong, Clerks 2 is a comedy first and foremost but what he did with those characters was fantastic and heart warming. Same with Jersey Girl. There was a great deal of personality and "soul" to that film, imo.

Anyway....he's already a good comedy writer/director to lots of people, but I think he's got a gem in the works. Something that will surprise everyone.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Aside from Mallrats and Clerks 2, I dig Smith's work.

My favorite being Dogma. i think a lot of people slam him because either they don't get slacker/stoner comedy, or just don't like it.

[Mike70]

i think a lot of people slam him because either they don't get slacker/stoner comedy, or just don't like it.

well, i don't know what there is to "get" about stoner comedy, it being pretty much the lowest common denominator as comedy goes. i've been a "stoner" most of my adult life, so i certainly understand the slant. i just don't like smith's work. clerks and dogma have their moments but the rest of his stuff is total shit in my opinion.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I guess it is how one views them, or maybe what memories they stir up. I remember watching Clerks the first time and thinking, I feel their disdain for the general public as I too was once a register Jockey, while also being a DJ, so I could relate to that film.

Mallrats was just total pish

Chasing Amy, was just great and funny. Jason Lee made that film.

Dogma, OMG, this was hilarious to me because being raised a catholic I connected with Bethany's plight on religion, coupled with Alan Rickman wry humor in every scene he was in just made it worth the viewing time.

Jay and SIlent Bob Strike Back - Just plain old dumb fun, with a great ensemble cast that was 2 hours of pure stupidity from start to finish. Not too mention slamming everything that is fucked up in Hollywood.

Jersey Girl - Eh, not my bag of donuts

Clerks 2 - Never should have been made.