The Happy Go Lucky Lawyer in Dawn

[CornishCorpse]

Hey I caught this the other day with a friend everyone else may be aware of this but this is news to me. In the original dawn when Peter and Roger are blocking the exits of the mall with the trucks amongest the gaggle of zombies standing outside of the entrance is a blonde haired, plump man in a suit with no makeup. At first I thought Id had a shot to many but me and a friend freeze framed and there it be.

So guys old news?

[strayrider]

Hey I caught this the other day with a friend everyone else may be aware of this but this is news to me. In the original dawn when Peter and Roger are blocking the exits of the mall with the trucks amongest the gaggle of zombies standing outside of the entrance is a blonde haired, plump man in a suit with no makeup. At first I thought Id had a shot to many but me and a friend freeze framed and there it be.

So guys old news?

Savini mentions this guy in Document of the Dead. He represents a "made-up" corpse from a funeral home.

Here's a blooper for you. It takes place at 59:18 as Roger and Peter pull out of the truck yard. In the distance you can see traffic on the road. (just below center frame in this capture you can see a red tail light)

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/picture.php?albumid=22&pictureid=249

:D

-stray-

[CornishCorpse]

Awesome, thanks Stray.

[Yojimbo]

Savini mentions this guy in Document of the Dead. He represents a "made-up" corpse from a funeral home.
-stray-


I heard that in commentary too, and it gave me a chuckle since usually a mortician when dressing a set of remains (typically this is done prior to cosmetizing) will slit the clothing along the back (slacks, jacket and shirt alike) because it would be otherwise impossible to dress them without doing so, primarily because of the difficulties associated with the stiffness of limbs due to rigor mortis.

Though we did not see the "made up" ghoul on screen for very long, I think that soon after he got up out of his casket his clothing would have fallen off - much like Savini had happen with the cemetery "Y-Incision" ghoul in his remake of NOLD.

Other things to consider about ghouls coming from a mortuary:

-Typically, the mouth would be secured shut, which would make it difficult for one of these ghouls to bite you. Depending on the case, this might be done by simply "super gluing" the mouth shut, or by wiring the jaw closed.

-The eyelids are usually secured shut by means of a schelra cap with small barbs on the top in addition to superglue. (Think a large set of contact lenses with lined with tiny fishooks and you get the basic idea.) In some cases, the eyelids might also be sewn into position. (BTW: when you see someone in a movie close the eyelids of a dead person and the eyelids stay shut, know that this is highly unlikely to work.)

-Hands are typically glued together in a folded position. In some cases, the hands, like the jaws, can be sewn or wired into position.

[darth los]

I heard that in commentary too, and it gave me a chuckle since usually a mortician when dressing a set of remains (typically this is done prior to cosmetizing) will slit the clothing along the back (slacks, jacket and shirt alike) because it would be otherwise impossible to dress them without doing so, primarily because of the difficulties associated with the stiffness of limbs due to rigor mortis.

Though we did not see the "made up" ghoul on screen for very long, I think that soon after he got up out of his casket his clothing would have fallen off - much like Savini had happen with the cemetery "Y-Incision" ghoul in his remake of NOLD.

Other things to consider about ghouls coming from a mortuary:

-Typically, the mouth would be secured shut, which would make it difficult for one of these ghouls to bite you. Depending on the case, this might be done by simply "super gluing" the mouth shut, or by wiring the jaw closed.

-The eyelids are usually secured shut by means of a schelra cap with small barbs on the top in addition to superglue. (Think a large set of contact lenses with lined with tiny fishooks and you get the basic idea.) In some cases, the eyelids might also be sewn into position. (BTW: when you see someone in a movie close the eyelids of a dead person and the eyelids stay shut, know that this is highly unlikely to work.)

-Hands are typically glued together in a folded position. In some cases, the hands, like the jaws, can be sewn or wired into position.


Question:

If rigor mortis makes the body so stiff then why all the gluing in these positions? Wouldn't they just stay that way once positioned?

I know it might sound like a dumb question to you but bear with me.





:cool:

[Yojimbo]

Question:

If rigor mortis makes the body so stiff then why all the gluing in these positions? Wouldn't they just stay that way once positioned?

I know it might sound like a dumb question to you but bear with me.





:cool:
Families pay morticians to handle things that they are better off not knowing, and it is the mortician's goal to make their loved ones presentable, so that the family can have a final memory of seeing their loved one looking as though they are at rest in a peaceful sleep. There are things that are done to facilitate this, and frankly I believe that most people would rather not know how this is done.


Once rigor mortis sets, it is difficult to get the body out of that particular position. An example would be if someone passed away in bed in a semi fetal position, with the arms askew. Although some amount of work can be done to "unlock" the position of the arms and legs, arms and legs may not stay where you place them when the remains are casketed, hence the mortician will need to take alternative measures to "secure" the hands/arms for presentation.

At the risk of revealing too much about what a mortician does to rectify this, sometimes the only remedy is to physically "break" the joints, ostensibly dislocating the bones from their sockets. This practice is usually avoided since it is only a temporary fix, and the muscles still may contract causing the arm to set in an odd position.

What would be great is if people passed away in the exact position that they would be presented in an open casket - then theoretically you might not need to do any artificial securing. However, even in those rare cases where someone does pass away in this position, as rigor mortis sets in it is possible that the limbs may contract and move. I have seen cases where someone who passed away laying on their back as if they were asleep began to "sit up" as rigor mortis set in.

It is not uncommon for people to pass away with their mouths slightly open - but to present them in this manner for a family viewing or an open casket service would be unacceptable by western standards. Therefore, we can attempt to close their mouth physically, but muscles and gravity may cause the mouth to open again after a short while, and it is this possiblity that causes morticians to "secure" the mouth closed.

[AcesandEights]

Families pay morticians to handle things that they are better off not knowing...

You said it, Yo. I stopped reading after the above statement, I don't need to know :D

(No offense meant, of course...I've always been mawkish about my mortality :dead:)

[Yojimbo]

You said it, Yo. I stopped reading after the above statement, I don't need to know :D

(No offense meant, of course...I've always been mawkish about my mortality :dead:)
No offense taken, brother. All of us are mawkish about our mortality to varying degrees, myself included.

I can say with all certainty that before coming into this profession I had no idea what goes into planning and arranging a funeral, and have learned and have seen some things that your normal, everyday person just simply does not need to know and does not want to know. It has taken me a long time to come to a comfortable place (I use that term loosely) regarding what I have to know in order to properly serve my families.

[krakenslayer]

Oh well, nothing to be too grossed-out about, in the end we're all just sentient meat, right? ;)

[Debbieangel]

Yojimbo,very interesting stuff.
My mom was a housekeeper at our local hospital and on occasion she would have to take a body to the morgue. It wasn't unusal for one to sit up or one to even grab your arm. It never bothered her but, I would have loved to see the look on her face when it happened. lol
This kindof stuff don't bother me after I am gone I don't care what they do with my body I won't be here to see it.lol

[strayrider]

It wasn't unusal for one to sit up or one to even grab your arm.

A guy I used to work with told me that his grandfather's corpse sat up during the funeral.

It caused quite a stir.

:eek:

-stray-

[capncnut]

Once rigor mortis sets, it is difficult to get the body out of that particular position. An example would be if someone passed away in bed in a semi fetal position, with the arms askew. Although some amount of work can be done to "unlock" the position of the arms and legs, arms and legs may not stay where you place them when the remains are casketed, hence the mortician will need to take alternative measures to "secure" the hands/arms for presentation.

At the risk of revealing too much about what a mortician does to rectify this, sometimes the only remedy is to physically "break" the joints, ostensibly dislocating the bones from their sockets. This practice is usually avoided since it is only a temporary fix, and the muscles still may contract causing the arm to set in an odd position.
Well, that's completely logical to me and it's fascinating suff. I was actually reading something like this the other day about the death of Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls/Heartbreakers) and how it was a bit of a problem 'straightening' him out as he passed away curled up in a 'perfect U shape'.

[Yojimbo]

Well, that's completely logical to me and it's fascinating suff. I was actually reading something like this the other day about the death of Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls/Heartbreakers) and how it was a bit of a problem 'straightening' him out as he passed away curled up in a 'perfect U shape'.
I have heard about that, and it must have been a real hard case to deal with. We have had similar issues from time to time, and it is never an easy task.

I recently read a pretty interesting - albeit a bit sensationalistic - book by Mary Roach about the funeral industry called "Stiff" which contained a lot of info that covers things like this. If you are interested, you can check it out here:
http://www.amazon.com/Stiff-Curious-Lives-Human-Cadavers/dp/0393050939


A guy I used to work with told me that his grandfather's corpse sat up during the funeral.

It caused quite a stir.

:eek:

-stray-

I have heard that this can happen, but have not seen anything so dramatic. Once, though, when I was new and very green I was standing near an unembalmed case - an elderly man who had passed just a few hours before - and I thought I clearly heard him sigh under the sheet. It freaked me out and I immediately started to check the man's vitals, thinking that he had been pronounced incorrectly, but failed to find any life signs. I ran and grabbed one of the senior staff members who laughed at me, saying that it was likely gas or trapped air escaping the remains, and he relayed that it happens all the time.


Oh well, nothing to be too grossed-out about, in the end we're all just sentient meat, right? ;)
You are absolutely correct. If nothing else, being a funeral director has made me face my own mortality, and the inevitability that someday, like it or not, rich or poor, I will be the one on the table. We are all going to eventually end up dead, after all, and our lives are so very short. So now, I do my best every day to try not to take life for granted, and to be thankful for another day above ground and for the continued opportunity to walk this world with my wife, family and friends and be as happy as possible.

[strayrider]

I do my best every day to try not to take life for granted, and to be thankful for another day above ground and for the continued opportunity to walk this world with my wife, family and friends and be as happy as possible.

Yes! You and me both, Brother Yoj! I absolutely adore life!

Life is good.

:D

-stray-

[Yojimbo]

Yes! You and me both, Brother Yoj! I absolutely adore life!

Life is good.

:D

-stray-
And it is very easy to forget that simply being alive is great, and to take it for granted. I am thankful that my eyes are opened now!

[MoonSylver]

I have heard that this can happen, but have not seen anything so dramatic. Once, though, when I was new and very green I was standing near an unembalmed case - an elderly man who had passed just a few hours before - and I thought I clearly heard him sigh under the sheet. It freaked me out and I immediately started to check the man's vitals, thinking that he had been pronounced incorrectly, but failed to find any life signs. I ran and grabbed one of the senior staff members who laughed at me, saying that it was likely gas or trapped air escaping the remains, and he relayed that it happens all the time.

I've heard that one before. Honestly, I think they're just bored. It's tough waiting for the zombie apocalypse to begin so they can finally get up & stretch the legs a bit. :D

[hadrian0117]

...There are things that are done to facilitate this, and frankly I believe that most people would rather not know how this is done...

Don't they also stuff the various body orifices (nose, anus, vagina, etc) with cotton to prevent leaking?

[Yojimbo]

Don't they also stuff the various body orifices (nose, anus, vagina, etc) with cotton to prevent leaking?
Yes, in most cases this does occur.

Dudes (and this is not specifically directed at hadrian but to everyone, since curiosity about this is part of human nature) I could get a lot more graphic since stuffing cotton is only the tip of the iceberg, but I really don't think this would be appropriate here. We have all lost loved ones, and these random details have the potential of upsetting people who have been subjected to enough grief due to their loss.

Please understand that to a large degree it is my duty to shield the bereaved and the general public at large from the assorted details of the funeral process that might be traumatic.

In this regard, should anyone have any specific questions that they absolutely need to ask me, feel free to PM me and I will do my best to answer you as truthfully as possible. Again, I don't mind sharing my knowledge, but just want to avoid inflicting it on people who are better off not hearing it.

[TheSeasonOfFire]

I dig the trampoline in that scene.

[AcesandEights]

I dig the trampoline in that scene.

Ahhh, yes, the classic trampoline gaff :)